I'll take the L, plus it meant I got to see more art.
Not like I have any rep to lose anyway.
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Fighting Game Headquarters |2| 0-2 vs Community
- Thread starter notworksafe
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I'll take the L, plus it meant I got to see more art.
Not like I have any rep to lose anyway.
I forget Beef isn't banned anymore so he'll be able to join and give free wins to whoever he faces.
pls, not me. my footsies are too weak to face the almighty astarte ;_;
pls, not me. my footsies are too weak to face the almighty astarte ;_;
ShinMaruku
Member
Ooooh that's a good choice. You should try KFM too.
You are better than me. :E
MikeBreezy92
Member
lol geese
Bout to stain some hands?
SolarPowered
Member
Anime already took over Toyota. It's only a matter of time.
What the fuck. He legit looks terrifying. If I were a child I'd freeze up.
lol geese
Lostconfused
Member
I am really losing track of what I wanted to write when I started typing about EXVS. I guess I'll just post what I have, it's rather rambling since I wrote it over a period of several days. At least in retrospect I think I figured out why I think some of the things about the game.
I'll also echo the statement that I never understand a game until I spend some time with it and EXVS is far easier to understand when you realize how you are controlling the game rather than what's happening on screen. The game is very lenient on execution, much more so than any fighting game and so much of it is streamlined and automated that in reality you have to do a lot less work than might appear.
"The key difference with EXVS is that there is no neutral defensive stances like down block, or block. Blocking in EXVS is only good in very specific situations and it costs resources to do, you cant block indefinitely, there are attacks that are effectively unblockable. This makes movement the most crucial aspect of the game as it will keep you out of trouble by letting you avoid your opponents attacks and putting you in a position to launch your own offensive. This is pretty much why Shouta uses the terms from fighting games such as neutral and footsies to describe EXVS. You cant really block, you cant move in block a punish attempt and then punish a wrong read. You have to move into your effective range without getting hit by the opponent and land your own attacks when they are exposed and vulnerable.
This is why EXVS is harder to understand simply by watching it. The players are almost always moving simply because standing still is a huge disadvantage and the moment you stop moving is the opportunity that your opponents are looking for.
The major differences are rooted in the team aspect and the player being able to quickly move in any direction within the 3D space. The team aspect, while obviously has some direct impact on game design, expresses itself mainly in the metagame and overall strategy. Its probably easier to explain and understand the game if you mainly look at it from a limited 1v1 scenario.
The most critical mechanic in the game is related to movement. Holding the joystick/controller stick in any of the 8 possible directions will move the players character direction at a relatively slow speed but cost no resources. Pressing a button referred to as boost will modify the movement in various ways at the cost using boost meter. Pressing the button will cause the character to rise into the air as long as the button is held down and there is meter available. If the button is released the character will fall to the ground. Double tapping the button will cause the character to move quickly with a short burst, this is called a boost dash, in the direction it is facing (I think?) or the direction in which the stick is held down. Generally the boost meter will not recover until the character touches the ground and enters a recovery animation.
So effectively this creates a system where a player moves in a relatively rhythmic fashion in short bursts of speed and then landing to recover the boost meter. By design boost dashing can evade most of opponents attacks, that way the player is forced to spend resources to avoid losing health but is unable to stay safe indefinitely and at some point in time will have to enter a vulnerable recovery animation to regain boost meter and be completely open to opponents attacks.
This establishes the core basis of neutral game where the players apply offensive pressure to each other forcing the opponent to move and then to punish their vulnerable landing recovery.
Attacking in this game usually happens from range. Most characters in the game have a projectile that travels faster than players top speed and auto corrects itself to move in the direction of the opposing player. Generally it is possible to evade those projectiles by moving perpendicular to their line of travel, either up or down.
Things get a bit more complicated at close range, here melee attacks come into play and you have less time to react. This is where the step mechanic becomes crucial. Inputting/tapping any direction twice will cause a step which is a short dash in that direction, the key part here is that it removes tracking on all of the attacks heading towards you. So all the long range attacks that were auto correcting their way towards you will stop and will probably just fly harmlessly by if you move a bit out of the way. At close range it will effectively make the opponent whiff whatever melee attack they are performing, leaving them open to a punish. The opponent is not entirely defenseless in that situation because they can cancel their melee animation with a step as well reversing the situation completely. Stepping consumes a large portion of the boost gauge so it becomes kind of a resource management guessing game.
The lock-on system greatly defines how you move throughout the stage. The camera is at all times fixed in the direction of your opponent, there is no control for camera direction. This almost always makes your inputs uniform, directional inputs for combos and other complex button combinations remain the same. The other way lock-on defines the players movement is simply by removing tracking from all attacks once the target is far away enough. This creates the necessity of closing in on the opponent before attacking.
I guess I really should cover at least some basic ideas of the 2v2 nature. Rise of Incarnates demonstrated that even with simplified mechanics and a less technical level of play you can be very successful by utilizing the basic meta game approach. This will have to also cover some more basic game mechanics because they work hand in hand with the 2v2 design of combat.
The most basic approach is that one player will move closer to the opponents, commonly referred to as the front player. Remember since the camera always faces the opponents if someone is closer to them than you are, they will be in front of you. The front player can gamble with their health and boost meter to attack the opponents openings and hopefully deal a large amount of damage. If the front player makes a mistake than the back player will move in and support their partner, if the front player didnt make a mistake than the back player can prevent the opponent's partner from trying the same thing."
I'll also echo the statement that I never understand a game until I spend some time with it and EXVS is far easier to understand when you realize how you are controlling the game rather than what's happening on screen. The game is very lenient on execution, much more so than any fighting game and so much of it is streamlined and automated that in reality you have to do a lot less work than might appear.
"The key difference with EXVS is that there is no neutral defensive stances like down block, or block. Blocking in EXVS is only good in very specific situations and it costs resources to do, you cant block indefinitely, there are attacks that are effectively unblockable. This makes movement the most crucial aspect of the game as it will keep you out of trouble by letting you avoid your opponents attacks and putting you in a position to launch your own offensive. This is pretty much why Shouta uses the terms from fighting games such as neutral and footsies to describe EXVS. You cant really block, you cant move in block a punish attempt and then punish a wrong read. You have to move into your effective range without getting hit by the opponent and land your own attacks when they are exposed and vulnerable.
This is why EXVS is harder to understand simply by watching it. The players are almost always moving simply because standing still is a huge disadvantage and the moment you stop moving is the opportunity that your opponents are looking for.
The major differences are rooted in the team aspect and the player being able to quickly move in any direction within the 3D space. The team aspect, while obviously has some direct impact on game design, expresses itself mainly in the metagame and overall strategy. Its probably easier to explain and understand the game if you mainly look at it from a limited 1v1 scenario.
The most critical mechanic in the game is related to movement. Holding the joystick/controller stick in any of the 8 possible directions will move the players character direction at a relatively slow speed but cost no resources. Pressing a button referred to as boost will modify the movement in various ways at the cost using boost meter. Pressing the button will cause the character to rise into the air as long as the button is held down and there is meter available. If the button is released the character will fall to the ground. Double tapping the button will cause the character to move quickly with a short burst, this is called a boost dash, in the direction it is facing (I think?) or the direction in which the stick is held down. Generally the boost meter will not recover until the character touches the ground and enters a recovery animation.
So effectively this creates a system where a player moves in a relatively rhythmic fashion in short bursts of speed and then landing to recover the boost meter. By design boost dashing can evade most of opponents attacks, that way the player is forced to spend resources to avoid losing health but is unable to stay safe indefinitely and at some point in time will have to enter a vulnerable recovery animation to regain boost meter and be completely open to opponents attacks.
This establishes the core basis of neutral game where the players apply offensive pressure to each other forcing the opponent to move and then to punish their vulnerable landing recovery.
Attacking in this game usually happens from range. Most characters in the game have a projectile that travels faster than players top speed and auto corrects itself to move in the direction of the opposing player. Generally it is possible to evade those projectiles by moving perpendicular to their line of travel, either up or down.
Things get a bit more complicated at close range, here melee attacks come into play and you have less time to react. This is where the step mechanic becomes crucial. Inputting/tapping any direction twice will cause a step which is a short dash in that direction, the key part here is that it removes tracking on all of the attacks heading towards you. So all the long range attacks that were auto correcting their way towards you will stop and will probably just fly harmlessly by if you move a bit out of the way. At close range it will effectively make the opponent whiff whatever melee attack they are performing, leaving them open to a punish. The opponent is not entirely defenseless in that situation because they can cancel their melee animation with a step as well reversing the situation completely. Stepping consumes a large portion of the boost gauge so it becomes kind of a resource management guessing game.
The lock-on system greatly defines how you move throughout the stage. The camera is at all times fixed in the direction of your opponent, there is no control for camera direction. This almost always makes your inputs uniform, directional inputs for combos and other complex button combinations remain the same. The other way lock-on defines the players movement is simply by removing tracking from all attacks once the target is far away enough. This creates the necessity of closing in on the opponent before attacking.
I guess I really should cover at least some basic ideas of the 2v2 nature. Rise of Incarnates demonstrated that even with simplified mechanics and a less technical level of play you can be very successful by utilizing the basic meta game approach. This will have to also cover some more basic game mechanics because they work hand in hand with the 2v2 design of combat.
The most basic approach is that one player will move closer to the opponents, commonly referred to as the front player. Remember since the camera always faces the opponents if someone is closer to them than you are, they will be in front of you. The front player can gamble with their health and boost meter to attack the opponents openings and hopefully deal a large amount of damage. If the front player makes a mistake than the back player will move in and support their partner, if the front player didnt make a mistake than the back player can prevent the opponent's partner from trying the same thing."
attn: daigo fanboys
espn has him in their top 5 players to watch in 2016 video
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14605018
espn has him in their top 5 players to watch in 2016 video
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14605018
Only problem with this is i'm worried about interference and receiving a worse connection for it.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I would rather have character variation of playstyle that have strengths and weaknesses based on meter, spacing, knockdown, in the corner and in the air. To balance all that takes a lot of work on the design and combat team.
CountBlack
Member
THATS MY GOAT
Nice write up
For me the biggest hurdle in improving my play is/was never getting a good handle on this aspect. At some point halfway through the match I lose my grip on the strategic situation and the match goes downhill.
Losing is no fun but disappointing your teammate is awful.
Oh
needs an asterisk for NA rooms.
For me the biggest hurdle in improving my play is/was never getting a good handle on this aspect. At some point halfway through the match I lose my grip on the strategic situation and the match goes downhill.
Losing is no fun but disappointing your teammate is awful.
Oh
needs an asterisk for NA rooms.
Are they just gonna pick him every year
Karsticles
Member
Thanks for the EXVS details, guys. That helps a lot.
Nice write up
For me the biggest hurdle in improving my play is/was never getting a good handle on this aspect. At some point halfway through the match I lose my grip on the strategic situation and the match goes downhill.
Losing is no fun but disappointing your teammate is awful.
Oh
needs an asterisk for NA rooms.
It is not just movement that is the most important part of the game, but something that is as important if not more so is your positioning.
Moving without regards to your teammate or opponents and getting too close or crossing between your partner is dangerous and reckless.
That is why there is a map mechanic and why it is so useful because your strategies and your advantages and disadvantages come from your position on the map relative to everyone else.
I touched up on this with the videos I posted.
Kshatriya is a good suit to describe why positioning is so important for playing your position.
And whenever I stay back to try to keep a grasp on the situation, invariably I leave my partner out to dry.
Man I love the game though. Been too long since I last played (other than messing around in single player or just for fun matches with my kids, we'll play silly one on ones before watching Gundam).
EXVS is a great game for me to explain the disconnect I have with intellectually knowing what to do and then being able to do it in game, you know? Something about competitive games makes me play like my hair is on fire, and everything I *know* goes flying out the window. Take boost management. I know all the finer points of boost management, intellectually. But when I streamed games the first thing everyone could point out was how I boosted like a madman.
Make netcode great again?
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Why not if he had a good year before.
Why positioning is so essential alongside movement in Gundam EXVS.
Depending on the offensive or supportive role you play, you have to keep in mind of your positions at all time.
Supportive positions since you are in the "back" you have to always keep in mind where you are because as a support you should NEVER die first.
If you die first in Gundam EXVS as a support, that means your offensive partner is severely disadvantaged because they can no longer take advantage of their higher health due to the overcost system. As a 3K offensive front, you can die once and still have another full health bar left to continue running the offense. If your support partner dies even once, the offensive player gets a huge health handicap when they respawn due to overcost and that sucks because they take the most fire and run the offense.
As a support you should stay and always keep at the very least, both opponents in sight or constantly switch lock to keep track of them. The ideal position is to always be in a position where you can see everyone on the map and judge what you need to do.
In this sense, the support role is harder, more technical, and has a lot going on.
On the other spectrum, the offensive "front" does not have to mind positioning as much as the support but they still need to keep track of their position to prevent being double teamed or crossing with the support.
Offensive roles carry a huge burden of doing more of the damage and killing and thus they should always die first. An offensive front should be able to trust the supportive back to cover them and support them as well as not die. The offensive support should be able to keep most of their attention to doing damage, but the offensive front also has to know to help out the support back and bail them out on fire.
In this sense the offensive front is harder in that they have to run and carry the offense because if they don't, the support with less fire power has to and it becomes a huge team handicap.
The 2v2 dynamic of this game is so important.
Depending on the offensive or supportive role you play, you have to keep in mind of your positions at all time.
Supportive positions since you are in the "back" you have to always keep in mind where you are because as a support you should NEVER die first.
If you die first in Gundam EXVS as a support, that means your offensive partner is severely disadvantaged because they can no longer take advantage of their higher health due to the overcost system. As a 3K offensive front, you can die once and still have another full health bar left to continue running the offense. If your support partner dies even once, the offensive player gets a huge health handicap when they respawn due to overcost and that sucks because they take the most fire and run the offense.
As a support you should stay and always keep at the very least, both opponents in sight or constantly switch lock to keep track of them. The ideal position is to always be in a position where you can see everyone on the map and judge what you need to do.
In this sense, the support role is harder, more technical, and has a lot going on.
On the other spectrum, the offensive "front" does not have to mind positioning as much as the support but they still need to keep track of their position to prevent being double teamed or crossing with the support.
Offensive roles carry a huge burden of doing more of the damage and killing and thus they should always die first. An offensive front should be able to trust the supportive back to cover them and support them as well as not die. The offensive support should be able to keep most of their attention to doing damage, but the offensive front also has to know to help out the support back and bail them out on fire.
In this sense the offensive front is harder in that they have to run and carry the offense because if they don't, the support with less fire power has to and it becomes a huge team handicap.
The 2v2 dynamic of this game is so important.
Its really hard when you're are one of the most consistent players in the world.
CountBlack
Member
THE BETA IS UP
KidA Seven
Member
It's that in combination with the fact that SFV will be his 5th SF game to compete in. Dude has been there since the start. He was competitively into SF2 before there was Alpha out in the arcades. I don't think anyone left playing can say that, except for maybe Wolfe now? I know Valle said he started with Alpha 2 and then later had to learn ST. Same with Nuki. So Daigo precedes both of them.
MikeBreezy92
Member
We you realize that Ken isn't a rush down character....
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Laura's alt is disgusting. You censor the butt slap but this is fine? Da hell?
http://imgur.com/a/ZEtJO
http://imgur.com/a/ZEtJO
godDAMN combofiend
MiniBossBattle
Member
Wait, what? Doesn't he have a forward roll cancels or something?
if i saw a lady wearing that on the street i'd think prolly think she had the clap tbh
Cindi Mayweather
Member
SF fans can no longer make fun of anime or DOA fans after this.
SolarPowered
Member
China and Japan have been laughing at us. They've just been laughing.
It's downright hilarious. The more I see of Laura, the less and less I like her. That ain't right because I actually prefer olive skin tone and dark hair over the typical blondes.
CountBlack
Member
I mean.. I'm not saying I condone it.. or understand it shit
what I'm trying to say is I'm still going in on DOA and anime fans regardless b
Its sadly called damage control for the first part. Also, insert that fucking combofienddatasswasfat.gif
KidA Seven
Member
I'm with Count. That shit isn't stopping us.
pffft...they can and will continue even with the fact that poison already existed.
Yes it is.
irfaanator
Banned
damn those cammy shots
ShinMaruku
Member
I am pleased Juri gon be good let her hair down Capcom
MikeBreezy92
Member
He has a run but tbh its not that useful for rushdown.
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