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[ShinMaruku]

Some do need to be put on blast though. Like PL.

 

[Line_HTX]

Some do need to be put on blast though. Like PL.

Justified.

 

[Tripon]

Some do need to be put on blast though. Like PL.

DSP resembles this remark.

 

[QisTopTier]

Sf5 is a fun game. I'm in hard day 1

 

[Tripon]

I think it's important to recognize that something you like or miss in a previous game doesn't mean that somebody shares that same opinion as you.

 

[Line_HTX]

I hope no one misses Calamity Trigger and vanilla Continuum Shift.

 

[vulva]

I should probably clear myself before people start coming out of the woodwork thinking I am putting them on blast.

When I mean mid tier player I am talking about mostly the online only SF4 player who has high points but usually gets beats if they go to a local. They thrive on beating the people who don't know much about the game or have put in less time than them. These are the online Ibukis who are godlike when they get the knockdown but not so much when they don't. They know set ups, they know OSes and they have execution even very specific character match up knowledge... in fact it's the stuff they spend the most time refining because that's what gets them a lot of their wins online. However a lot of this minute stuff won't carry over from game to game and all the muscle memory and habits they built up playing SF4 may not carry over to SFV.

They will have to spend a lot of time unlearning their habits. That means unlearning crouch tech, pressing crouch lights, wake up DPs, FA back dash on pressure, knockdown timings, plinks etc. While they unlearn that they have to learn whatever the dominant strategy in SFV is going to be so they will be at a slight disadvantage starting out.

The low tier SF4 player never bothered learning this stuff so they have less muscle memory and habits to get rid of. The better than mid players know all the stuff the mid players know but they are better at that level because you can't coast by on SF4 specifics at that level... everyone at that level knows that stuff. So at that level you need something extra like mastery of spacing and adaptability to win which are more universally applicable attributes to have in a fighting game.

That is why top players who have always been good at fighting games will be good at SFV as well. If you go to tournaments and you do decent at tournaments then you will do well in SFV as well. However, if you do well just in online SF4 but not so well offline... well then you will have some growing pains in SFV ( especially if the netcode is up to snuff).


Just my opinion, no one needs to feel that I am putting anyone on blast.

Looking at that explanation, I'm comfortably low tier haha

 

[Tripon]

BTW, I remember having this conversation about people missing shit, or game is random, or insert random comment about game. Lots knows the fights between hyper fighting and Super Turbo, or the constant battle between Alpha 2 and Alpha 3.

 

[oneida]

nobody has a bigger chip on their shoulder than VF fans b.

 

[Anne]

This talk about mid level players and SFV is so frustrating to me.

 

[Karsticles]

I hope no one misses Calamity Trigger and vanilla Continuum Shift.

Hell no. Made me quit BB.

 

[Dahbomb]

BTW, I remember having this conversation about people missing shit, or game is random, or insert random comment about game. Lots knows the fights between hyper fighting and Super Turbo, or the constant battle between Alpha 2 and Alpha 3.

You mean the cycle of all fighting game releases?

New game releases:

"Oh man this game is trash, so random even scrubs can win in it. The previous game was so much more skillful and less scrub friendly.. it was just way better"

New game on the horizon for the series:

"Oh man about time, was getting tired of all the top tier spam in this game. Game has gotten too refined, only top level players who play 15 hours a day can win and the game has too much of a barrier to entry now."

New game releases:

"Oh man this game is trash, so random even scrubs can win in it. The previous game was so much more skillful and less scrub friendly.. it was just way better".

 

[irfaanator]

everybody on gaf is terrible. That's why we're stream monster headquarters and 0-2 vs community. Gotta accept it

 

[ViewtifulJC]

"Women are picking up this game and beating men" - one of the best players at the game about its sequel

 

[Karsticles]

everybody on gaf is terrible. That's why we're stream monster headquarters and 0-2 vs community. Gotta accept it

Member vs. Admin is a rough matchup.

"Women are picking up this game and beating men" - one of the best players at the game about its sequel

Was that Yipes? I forget.

 

[Line_HTX]

everybody on gaf is terrible. That's why we're stream monster headquarters and 0-2 vs community. Gotta accept it

I'm proud of showing up and going 0-2 because meeting the players and talking with them are fun.

 

[Tripon]

You mean the cycle of all fighting game releases?

New game releases:

"Oh man this game is trash, so random even scrubs can win in it. The previous game was so much more skillful and less scrub friendly.. it was just way better"

New game on the horizon for the series:

"Oh man about time, was getting tired of all the top tier spam in this game. Game has gotten too refined, only top level players who play 15 hours a day can win and the game has too much of a barrier to entry now."

New game releases:

"Oh man this game is trash, so random even scrubs can win in it. The previous game was so much more skillful and less scrub friendly.. it was just way better".

Pretty much. Which is why this release, I'm trying not to go to high or to low in my initial opinions of the game. Really want to give it a month or two before I decide ibrwlly like it or not.

 

[DunpealD]

Too advanced for me to understand any of this!

tl;dr if you mash a light in SFV there's a higher chance a medium or strong button will beat it.

This in short.

SFIV did not have a priority system and when simultaneous hits happen there will be a trade.
Example: 3 frame HP/MP/LP would trade with any other 3 frame simultaneous attack.

In SFV, in case of a simultaneous hit this applies: H>M>L. Only simultaneous attacks of the same strength involves a trade.
Example: a 3 frame HP would beat any 3 frame MP and LP attack due to priority.

This is important because it makes lights weaker as a defensive tool and any medium or hard frametrap that is 3 frames will beat out any lights clean.

America is free in everything except shit it never boasts about. Although, let's be fair US is much better at DOA than SF where the top 8 will only have 1 Yank.

I think it was more interesting to see an Akira winning on top of being a Japanese player. Kwiggle did win the big invitation tourny in Japan tho, so I doubt it is a "free" status yet.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Was that Yipes? I forget.

the classic

 

[Karsticles]

the classic

Ah, that's right. I forgot he existed.

 

[Dahbomb]

"Women are picking up this game and beating men" - one of the best players at the game about its sequel

This quote is not only really offensive and bad but also not true.

Though that was so far back that not even Cross Assault had happened yet.

 

[Tizoc]

Everything works now
I posted it a page or so back. I had a windows update pending and *poof!* fixed everything. Both Fightcade as well as the built in emulator dotemu attached to the games.

Cool, let me know if you need any Garou tips.
I've posted a few in here
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188663450&postcount=643

 

[Rhapsody]

Lich couldn't close out game 3 against Ryo

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

tl;dr if you mash a light in SFV there's a higher chance a medium or strong button will beat it.

Thank you.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

These are the online Ibukis who are godlike when they get the knockdown but not so much when they don't. They know set ups, they know OSes and they have execution even very specific character match up knowledge... in fact it's the stuff they spend the most time refining because that's what gets them a lot of their wins online.

Fought an Oni or Akuma the other night. Can't remember which because I think they're both trash, but anyways, he had a lot of points, but poor defense. The only thing he seemed to be able to do were really long combos. I know I'm inexperienced compared to players like that, but it's a striking difference between a player like that and someone like Vulva or even Yams. It's like they've boxed themselves into one aspect of the game: combos, and that's it.

I'm not making a judgement, because I still lost to him, so it's definitely working on some level, especially since I'm still working on my own combo execution to increase damage output I need to win matches, but it's still glaring and pretty interesting to see the different mindset of players based wholly around their play styles.

It's just that for all of his great combos, I still felt I was a better player despite my lack of experience with the game and especially my character.

 

[direct_quote]

So was that priority change a recent change? Because I remember Max complaining about people mashing lights and beating everything in one of the previous betas.

 

[WesternHeretic]

Is there a NEC thread?

 

[Holy Order Sol]

So was that priority change a recent change? Because I remember Max complaining about people mashing lights and beating everything in one of the previous betas.

Even if it was in before, people most likely hadn't learned tight frame traps and proper meaty timing anyway.

 

[Anne]

Thank you.

Ye. I'll explain it a bit more.

In SFV, throws are 5 frames (I believe, regardless this still stands even if they are 4 or something) which means they are slower than 3 frame light moves. That means if somebody is going for a throw it's actually pretty good to mash light sometimes. With SFIV type priority, if you try to frame trap a light and they land on the same frame, you get a trade. With the priority in SFV, the harder hitting button wins that trade, which makes offense with bigger buttons better and weakens mashing lights on defense.

It's a pretty big change on offense that encourages going for big frame traps more often.

 

[K.Sabot]

Players should be allowed to counter pick songs in games you're allowed to choose them.

 

[Marz]

I feel like Dizzy isn't really a zoner, more just setplay.

 

[DunpealD]

Ye. I'll explain it a bit more.

In SFV, throws are 5 frames (I believe, regardless this still stands even if they are 4 or something) which means they are slower than 3 frame light moves. That means if somebody is going for a throw it's actually pretty good to mash light sometimes. With SFIV type priority, if you try to frame trap a light and they land on the same frame, you get a trade. With the priority in SFV, the harder hitting button wins that trade, which makes offense with bigger buttons better and weakens mashing lights on defense.

It's a pretty big change on offense that encourages going for big frame traps more often.

To go a little bit deeper according to Gilleys framedata in a Ryu mirror match only a st.LP could stop another MP after a blocked st.MP.
While no button can be used after a blocked cr.MP. Which means you have to either keep blocking, dp or parry.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Ye. I'll explain it a bit more.

In SFV, throws are 5 frames (I believe, regardless this still stands even if they are 4 or something) which means they are slower than 3 frame light moves. That means if somebody is going for a throw it's actually pretty good to mash light sometimes. With SFIV type priority, if you try to frame trap a light and they land on the same frame, you get a trade. With the priority in SFV, the harder hitting button wins that trade, which makes offense with bigger buttons better and weakens mashing lights on defense.

It's a pretty big change on offense that encourages going for big frame traps more often.

Can frame traps be explained? I still don't understand them. Like these people who play Cody or Sakura and tell me "frame traps" I still have no idea what that even means.

 

[Line_HTX]

Is there a NEC thread?

Here you go, Wilson.

 

[RockTurtle]

I should probably clear myself before people start coming out of the woodwork thinking I am putting them on blast.

When I mean mid tier player I am talking about mostly the online only SF4 player who has high points but usually gets beats if they go to a local. They thrive on beating the people who don't know much about the game or have put in less time than them. These are the online Ibukis who are godlike when they get the knockdown but not so much when they don't. They know set ups, they know OSes and they have execution even very specific character match up knowledge... in fact it's the stuff they spend the most time refining because that's what gets them a lot of their wins online. However a lot of this minute stuff won't carry over from game to game and all the muscle memory and habits they built up playing SF4 may not carry over to SFV.

They will have to spend a lot of time unlearning their habits. That means unlearning crouch tech, pressing crouch lights, wake up DPs, FA back dash on pressure, knockdown timings, plinks etc. While they unlearn that they have to learn whatever the dominant strategy in SFV is going to be so they will be at a slight disadvantage starting out.

The low tier SF4 player never bothered learning this stuff so they have less muscle memory and habits to get rid of. The better than mid players know all the stuff the mid players know but they are better at that level because you can't coast by on SF4 specifics at that level... everyone at that level knows that stuff. So at that level you need something extra like mastery of spacing and adaptability to win which are more universally applicable attributes to have in a fighting game.

That is why top players who have always been good at fighting games will be good at SFV as well. If you go to tournaments and you do decent at tournaments then you will do well in SFV as well. However, if you do well just in online SF4 but not so well offline... well then you will have some growing pains in SFV ( especially if the netcode is up to snuff).


Just my opinion, no one needs to feel that I am putting anyone on blast.

somebody has videos of me losing to high level players on youtube

 

[Anne]

Can frame traps be explained? I still don't understand them. Like these people who play Cody or Sakura and tell me "frame traps" I still have no idea what that even means.

Oh, it's really simple. When you make somebody block, you can go for a strike or a throw to mix them up. A frame trap is when you make a really small gap (a couple frames, hence the name) between two strikes, so that if they try to mash or throw tech you counter hit them.

I think eventually SF4 players just started calling any CH/throw type mix up a frame trap at some point though

 

[ShinMaruku]

I think it was more interesting to see an Akira winning on top of being a Japanese player. Kwiggle did win the big invitation tourny in Japan tho, so I doubt it is a "free" status yet.

DOA is very well balanced with it's cast. Eliot the worst character in the game won a major, Akira is actually very good, you just need to have good reads and fundamentals to overcome his issues.
Of course the US is not free, but if the Japanese scientists at games can really make a gap. We just need a equivalent and it will remain balanced.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Oh, it's really simple. When you make somebody block, you can go for a strike or a throw to mix them up. A frame trap is when you make a really small gap (a couple frames, hence the name) between two strikes, so that if they try to mash or throw tech you counter hit them.

I think eventually SF4 players just started calling any CH/throw type mix up a frame trap at some point though

So the only way to get out of it is to keep blocking?

 

[DunpealD]

Oh, it's really simple. When you make somebody block, you can go for a strike or a throw to mix them up. A frame trap is when you make a really small gap (a couple frames, hence the name) between two strikes, so that if they try to mash or throw tech you counter hit them.

I think eventually SF4 players just started calling any CH/throw type mix up a frame trap at some point though

Frame trap is a little bit more specific than a mix up.
It's putting the opponent on frame disadvantage to set up a counter hit. Frame traps usually only work well when you put the throw into the mix.

 

[WesternHeretic]

Here you go, Wilson.

Thanks Andrew... I mean Matthew!

 

[Anne]

So the only way to get out of it is to keep blocking?

Block or do something invincible. Like if there's a 2 frame gap between two strikes, and your fastest move is 3 frames, any non invincible move will get CH.

Once somebody just blocks then you throw them though. The strike > block > throw rock/paper/scissors triangle is the basis of most fighting game pressure.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Here's the SFV frame talk on youtube.

Much better than reading straight text.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNXIIVWTYU&feature=youtu.be

Block or do something invincible. Like if there's a 2 frame gap between two strikes, and your fastest move is 3 frames, any non invincible move will get CH.

Once somebody just blocks then you throw them though. The strike > block > throw rock/paper/scissors triangle is the basis of most fighting game pressure.

That complicates things because let's say a Sakura goes for frame traps right at the start and I have no ex, so I can't do an invincible move?

 

[Anne]

That complicates things because let's say a Sakura goes for frame traps right at the start and I have no ex, so I can't do an invincible move?

Well in SFIV you can backdash. Other than that yeah, you just have to block the frame trap.

I'm surprised nobody explains these things to new players cause they are the backbone of SF offense and defense.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Here's the SFV frame talk on youtube.

Much better than reading straight text.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNXIIVWTYU&feature=youtu.be



That complicates things because let's say a Sakura goes for frame traps right at the start and I have no ex, so I can't do an invincible move?

In SF4 besides blocking you'd have backdash and focus.

 

[RockTurtle]

so that's why i was crush countering so much with necalli using st. HK

 

[DunpealD]

I'm surprised nobody explains these things to new players cause they are the backbone of SF offense and defense.

Problem is it requires knowledge of how frame data work or at least the concept.

 

[Anne]

Problem is it requires knowledge of how frame data work or at least the concept.

Not really. Make a triangle out of block > strike > throw and that's all you need. Most players just take it for granted people will figure it out.

 

[vulva]

Well in SFIV you can backdash. Other than that yeah, you just have to block the frame trap.

I'm surprised nobody explains these things to new players cause they are the backbone of SF offense and defense.

I kinda touched on it when explaining that frame data is simple math that allows you to know what should and shouldn't hit in theory (ignoring hitboxes for a second)


Cindi: Most of the time if they're doing several frametraps they'll end up creating some space as the string goes on. What you need to look for in those settings aren't how to outright beat the string but how to avoid taking damage until you are secure. So that means avoiding getting counter hit during a frame trap or getting thrown as a mixup in the middle of the frametrap. Patience and awareness of throws are your best friend in that situation.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Well in SFIV you can backdash. Other than that yeah, you just have to block the frame trap.

I'm surprised nobody explains these things to new players cause they are the backbone of SF offense and defense.

I had been playing USFIV for over 100 hours before someone bothered to explain what invincibles, meaty are. I didn't know backdash was invincible before then. Or even that a well timed light meaty beats out a dp.

Capcom fails because they all of this shit in its game and doesn't have any place explaining it. BBCPE has an entire glossary of relevant fighting game terms. Nor or is there a mode explaining any of this.

Most players fail because the only thing they tend to do, even if you play with them regularly, is just beat you up without helping you understand the game.

 

[BakedYams]

Why can't we all just enjoy playing games? We'll eventually get so frustrated about things that we'll even go deeper than community and just be an IRC chat that has three users that are always on and that one person who likes to dip in every now and then.

Someone send my idea to combofiend.

No need to send it if they already read it.