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[Shouta]

I'm aware that the actual mechanics in DoA5 are an improvement over the earlier games (especially DoA4, goddamn that game was bad)... but making those improvements is not going to change people's opinion of the game in the short term. It's something that they have to keep doing and keep pushing if they want to make any headway beyond "lol tits". Honestly, my main non-mechanical problems with DoA5 is that the online experience and the PC port are both travashamockeries that have seen zero improvement since their existence.

As for the creepy fanbase, I mainly play (or played) non-ArcSys anime fighters. Those communities can have some... uh, interesting characters. There's no way I could claim that as an issue even if I wanted to.

Sure. I just find it laughable that some folks in the FGC are like "I'm open to any game!" but won't give DOA the time of day before actually playing it, etc.

Also, you didn't state creepers might be a problem. I said it's a part of the problem.

DOA1 pervs had it rough

It's kinda funny because DOA1's mega bounce was a hidden setting option heh. It was surprisingly tame otherwise. The series went bonkers with DOA2.

 

[Master Milk]

wooo, scrubbed a game out lol

 

[Kadey]

I actually sold my DOA Xbox console to Justin.

 

[Lyte Edge]

It's a real shame that the PC port of DOA5LR turned out the way it did. The golden rule at this point is pretty much "Never buy anything from Tecmo Koei on PC." :\ Shitty situation all around.

It's kinda funny because DOA1's mega bounce was a hidden setting option heh. It was surprisingly tame otherwise. The series went bonkers with DOA2.

It always had a ridiculous level of bounce...that mega bounce thing just made it even more insane, lol.

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

wooo, scrubbed a game out lol

Yeah, I'm not doing a great job blocking that dash in

 

[Master Milk]

Yeah, I'm not doing a great job blocking that dash in

you obviously know what you're doing though, and more or less dominating me completely

i'm struggling to find a simple two hit combo lol

this rematch option makes rotating kind of hard

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

you obviously know what you're doing though, and more or less dominating me completely

i'm struggling to find a simple two hit combo lol

this rematch option makes rotating kind of hard

Since there's only 4 of us we should probably just stick to one cab set and wait turns.

Edit: Oh, I guess you still get the rematch option even if other people are waiting. That's dumb.

 

[ShinMaruku]

hhmm Best mobility has to go to Christie, Ayane, and Marie Rose due fact they got built in spacing and/or/both built in side step mechanics to get out of a lot of situtions most char. will have to block and guess the 50/50 mix up etc. Best Pokes go to Kasumi, Mila, Momiji, akira and rig once he gets into bending stance. Now for anyone that follows DOA reason why I dont put christies even she is just as fast as Kasumi is that Christie has not good low punch she has one of slowest low punches before grapple char. like Bass.. Also does not have a go mid poke tool that can crush high. Like Mila can crush high with a good mid punch that like 15 frames that top mila players use in netural to poke and fish out a counter hit........ I'm going to be using H = Hold and number keypad for notations like 6 is forward and 4 is back etc and etc

oh now for counters this is where it gets little complicated. Start off simple on netural stage like long big stage. I'm not going to say dojo cause that tournament banned for a lot of reason. lets say uummm air port stage thats really big. so Netural where in cneter where no danger zone. Char. that have advance counters like Lei Fang Bay Man and Hayabusa excel and have the most damaging one. That is hard read basically cause you have to counter the exact like example you counter high you just hit 7H you counter the high. Now to get that higher damage with bay man you have to counter with a smaller frame window and also exact move example 6 7H for high punch and 4 9h for high kick. same for mid 6 4h for mid punch 4 6 for mid kick and yes same for low 6 1H for low punch and 4 3H for low kick. Also if you get a "hi counter hold" meaning you throw out your counter at last possible time. meaning first 3 to 5 frames active of your counter . You get 150% damage on your counter. So they do a lot...


Now here why Stage matters...... Now with a Ceiling stage Hayabusa, Phase-4, Kasumi, Ayane Christie and couple of other char. Counters will be better than rest of cast. Reason why is because take a Example if Phase-4 get a advance mid kick counter 4 6H you get launch into the Ceiling stage and guaranteed combo is followed because you are in a sit down stun. they can take 30 to 40% of you health if they get "hi counter hold" on stage like that with also depending on how far or close wall is.

Now for floor with electric floor stages Nyo Tengu and couple of other char. have and will do more damage. Example Nyo Tengu low kick counter. will slam you 3 times on floor so electric wall thats about 20% I think on high counter hold if not more. I dont know I havent Played Nyo in awhile but its a lot of damage for a counter

To add to stages, you also have to be mindful with what you do near walls because even if you put a character near a wall, if they counter you, you are flying into that wall and if it's Alpha,Nyo Tengu Hitomi Ayane and Misty, your life can very quickly be over. Also some stages are made just to benefit some characters as well, like the dangerzone turns Leon into god when he gets his combo down. But he runs into a issue when another character can do the same with less hits like Ayane who has bounds that set you up for guaranteed combos off the edge of the stage into another guaranteed set up, or she can bound then reset you for another combo. Also be mindful of the high counter throw where somebody prempts you to mash counter and then Alpha does burst ona dangerzone and her 70 Damage throw becomes 120 where that throw takes off 78% life.

Spoiler

Mmmm B.U.R.S.T

 

[Master Milk]

Since there's only 4 of us we should probably just stick to one cab set and wait turns.

yea, but i know karst loves to mash rematch

and i think with four people everyone should be playing

i just don't like getting trashed by the same person when i could be getting trashed by everyone

 

[hitsugi]

Confession: I never saw the appeal of Ryu's donkey kick, and to this day don't understand it.

It was the first (only?) new special added to Ryu's arsenal since the red fireball, and the ex version was the backbone of many of his combos in SF3.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Sure. I just find it laughable that some folks in the FGC are like "I'm open to any game!" but won't give DOA the time of day before actually playing it, etc.

That is the point I was trying to make. They never really mean they'd try any game. They should also be called on it too.

 

[Karsticles]

GGs Tornix, whoever you are. What should I do against the full screen fire chain stance? That always wrecks me.

hhmm Best mobility has to go to Christie, Ayane, and Marie Rose due fact they got built in spacing and/or/both built in side step mechanics to get out of a lot of situtions most char. will have to block and guess the 50/50 mix up etc. Best Pokes go to Kasumi, Mila, Momiji, akira and rig once he gets into bending stance. Now for anyone that follows DOA reason why I dont put christies even she is just as fast as Kasumi is that Christie has not good low punch she has one of slowest low punches before grapple char. like Bass.. Also does not have a go mid poke tool that can crush high. Like Mila can crush high with a good mid punch that like 15 frames that top mila players use in netural to poke and fish out a counter hit........ I'm going to be using H = Hold and number keypad for notations like 6 is forward and 4 is back etc and etc

oh now for counters this is where it gets little complicated. Start off simple on netural stage like long big stage. I'm not going to say dojo cause that tournament banned for a lot of reason. lets say uummm air port stage thats really big. so Netural where in cneter where no danger zone. Char. that have advance counters like Lei Fang Bay Man and Hayabusa excel and have the most damaging one. That is hard read basically cause you have to counter the exact like example you counter high you just hit 7H you counter the high. Now to get that higher damage with bay man you have to counter with a smaller frame window and also exact move example 6 7H for high punch and 4 9h for high kick. same for mid 6 4h for mid punch 4 6 for mid kick and yes same for low 6 1H for low punch and 4 3H for low kick. Also if you get a "hi counter hold" meaning you throw out your counter at last possible time. meaning first 3 to 5 frames active of your counter . You get 150% damage on your counter. So they do a lot...


Now here why Stage matters...... Now with a Ceiling stage Hayabusa, Phase-4, Kasumi, Ayane Christie and couple of other char. Counters will be better than rest of cast. Reason why is because take a Example if Phase-4 get a advance mid kick counter 4 6H you get launch into the Ceiling stage and guaranteed combo is followed because you are in a sit down stun. they can take 30 to 40% of you health if they get "hi counter hold" on stage like that with also depending on how far or close wall is.

Now for floor with electric floor stages Nyo Tengu and couple of other char. have and will do more damage. Example Nyo Tengu low kick counter. will slam you 3 times on floor so electric wall thats about 20% I think on high counter hold if not more. I dont know I havent Played Nyo in awhile but its a lot of damage for a counter

Thanks for all that!

So what is Nyotengu good at?

 

[skLaFarebear]

I wanna die inside every time I get hit with Rise's rhythm game super in ultimax. Fucking killed me with like 60% left ._.

 

[DunpealD]

It was the first (only?) new special added to Ryu's arsenal since the red fireball, and the ex version was the backbone of many of his combos in SF3.

It hits crouching opponents and moved Ryu forwad making it a further reaching attack. Also EX had wallbounce for more juicy combo.

But yeah Ryu never did get a new special after donkey kick and ironically he lost it again. People would probably go nuts when Guile gets a new special, lol.

 

[Tornix]

GGs Tornix, whoever you are. What should I do against the full screen fire chain stance? That always wrecks me.


Thanks for all that!

So what is Nyotengu good at?

GGs! Zato is a matchup I don't get enough experience in. It seems that block string into rensen beam leaves Axl at just the right distance for Zato to drill fml.

For stance just try and jab between if I try and space them. You had the right idea doing sj shadow gallery if I tried to re-stance.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Did anyone else get Nitroplus Blasterz (I assume most people interested are waiting for the domestic release) and/or Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax Ignition? Would like to play with some people here.

 

[Master Milk]

Did anyone else get Nitroplus Blasterz (I assume most people interested are waiting for the domestic release) and/or Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax Ignition? Would like to play with some people here.

i got ignition, waiting for nitroplus since the release is supposed to be close

 

[Phantasmal Repose]

GGs Milk and Karst. That was fun. I don't know how to fight Zato.

 

[ShinMaruku]

GGs Tornix, whoever you are. What should I do against the full screen fire chain stance? That always wrecks me.


Thanks for all that!

So what is Nyotengu good at?

She has decent air movement and very good space control and great throws that can lead into some nasty combos.

Next to Momiji Ayane and Lei, there is no better spacer than she is.

 

[mbpm1]

It hits crouching opponents and moved Ryu forwad making it a further reaching attack. Also EX had wallbounce for more juicy combo.

But yeah Ryu never did get a new special after donkey kick and ironically he lost it again. People would probably go nuts when Guile gets a new special, lol.

What if Guile loses specials?

 

[Sinatar]

Floe's FFVII playthrough is literally the best thing on the internet. He needs to archive this shit to youtube.

 

[mbpm1]

this is why I love floe

 

[jerry1594]

What if Guile loses specials?

He will gain a two commamd normals per button

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

https://youtu.be/j0VoO2Kx2A4

Christmas season fresh meat is here.

 

[FACE]

As a Ken player I'm just like

"This shouldn't work. The frame disadvantage means I should be technically attacking with a 6 frame move and people can easily just press light kick to stop me"

But few people actually do that bc online lol

I don't even think it's because of online, most people don't bother with frame data.

Well that's a dumb reason

UR FACE IS DUMB

 

[Emperor Bohe]

Floe's FFVII playthrough is literally the best thing on the internet. He needs to archive this shit to youtube.

looooooooool fucking floe

 

[Professor Beef]

UR FACE IS DUMB

avatar quote

 

[ShinMaruku]

Nice unknown in doa appearantly, Misty's power blow is in a semi crouch state making him whiff is dragon kick and then got him spanked.

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

Would you agree that this is different for a game like Smash, where aerial trajectory can be changed on the spot in a very ground-like manner, leading to attacks, counterattacks, and place attacks in the air?

What about a game like Marvel, where some characters are entirely aerial in their neutral? How would you apply the term there?

I think it is weird that the term footsies might apply only on the ground in some games, but not others. I am guessing you will agree that Smash has aerial footsies. But if that is the case, then why isn't Street Fighter jumping part of footsies?

I'm having trouble thinking of the term in a consistent manner across games, and I am hoping this conversation will help me solidify some concepts that are currently more fluid than I would like them to be.

Smash, Guilty Gear, KOF, Marvel... they all have a neutral game that has a few more layers to it than Street Fighter does. I rarely use the term "footsies" when I am not talking about Street Fighter.

In non-SF games, I simply use the term "neutral". Depending on the game, there are many nuances to consider which make teaching the subject very difficult.

Take Marvel as an example. Because of the height of super jumps and the various types of assists that exist, Viscant liked to talk about "quadrants" when talking about the neutral game. Dante's Jam Session is good at covering this or that quadrant, Rocket Raccoon's Log Trap covers this or that. The general idea that is shared with the "footsies" concept of street fighter is that you have attacks and you have movement, and you can combine them to possess varying amounts of control over different parts of the screen. How valuable certain parts of the screen are is up to the game.

Smash's closest fighting game analog is King of Fighters. In both Smash and KOF, you can walk or you can run (although you cannot run -away- from someone in KOF). In both Smash and KOF, you can jump at different heights and angles. In both Smash and KOF, your ability to move quickly in any direction with practically any character means that you have much more control over when and how you engage the opponent. Smash and KOF can have "footsies" (again, using the street fighter-centric, ground-based definition) at times, but since attacks from short hops are so effective, you see much more air poking than ground poking. The concept of "footsies" still applies, just at different heights.
---
"I am guessing you will agree that Smash has aerial footsies. But if that is the case, then why isn't Street Fighter jumping part of footsies?"

Because jumping in street fighter is inherently -very- risky (usually. For a noticeable exception, see Yun/Rufus in sf4). Jump at Ryu in SF2. If he's any good, you'll fall flat on your face after eating a DP, and now he can force you to block a fireball which pushes you out to nearly full-screen, and now you have to navigate the fireball minefield again to have a chance at making back the life deficit. Great players don't screw this up. Jumping makes you lose 1/4th of your life.

In Smash/KOG/GG/Marvel/etc, jumping is not something you can counter with a simple reactionary punish. You have many options in the air that make it so that the air "approach" is multi-faceted and can be completely safe depending on various factors. This gives the "air" in these games a distinctly different sense of neutral, although the same core concepts apply.
---
No matter what type of fighting game it is, neutral boils down to using movement and/or attacks to bait a reaction which you can use to score a hit or force a bad situation. If the opponent chooses not to react, there is often a simple way to take advantage of that as well (ie if they block a jumping attack in street fighter, you can force a mixup).

 

[mbpm1]

That Viscant story holy

 

[Sinatar]

That Viscant story holy

Floe is going deep, holy shit.

 

[Coda]

fLoE's stream is so intense to watch.

 

[Master Milk]

i get killed for landing j.k and not being able to follow up more than anything ._.

 

[Kadey]

fLoE's tream stream is so intense to watch.

Sexual intense?

 

[Sayad]

Yea, I definitely don't use cheesecake when I want to call something cheesy.

Cheesecake is like stuff you wouldn't mind having around a young kid because it isn't so blatant or extreme that it'll catch any attention unless you're in that state of mind, like tight sweaters and yoga pants.

It only looks funny because of hardware limitations. DoA1 had swimsuits and even a nude Kasumi CG. The series knew exactly where it want to be from the get go. This is how DoA2's ads looked in gameing magazines back in 2000/2001:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/attachments/dead_or_alive2-jpg.16491/ <- NSFW


DoA5 is the game where they actually took effort to fix the gameplay, they even tried to get away from the fanservice stuff, but the backlash after the first gameplay reveal with Kasumi in a decent outfit made them realize how hard the game would bomb without the fanservice it's known for.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Got DOA5 LR dled. Gotta admit I missed DOA. Hitomi rocks and has a gi in the tutorial. Fuck yeah, karate girls. Just like me!

 

[Karsticles]

GGs to everyone who played Xrd tonight.

Since there's only 4 of us we should probably just stick to one cab set and wait turns.

Edit: Oh, I guess you still get the rematch option even if other people are waiting. That's dumb.

Oh, I use the rematch setting because I prefer long sets with one person for learning, and because I hate watching other people play.

GGs! Zato is a matchup I don't get enough experience in. It seems that block string into rensen beam leaves Axl at just the right distance for Zato to drill fml.

For stance just try and jab between if I try and space them. You had the right idea doing sj shadow gallery if I tried to re-stance.

I have NO idea how to fight Axl. Most frustrating matchup in the game for me. I don't handle characters that outrange me well, because I tend to have a spacing mindset. :-/

GGs Milk and Karst. That was fun. I don't know how to fight Zato.

Just don't respect Zato when Eddie is dead.

She has decent air movement and very good space control and great throws that can lead into some nasty combos.

Next to Momiji Ayane and Lei, there is no better spacer than she is.

So she's the 4th best spacer?

You're just saying that because you know I love spacing!

i get killed for landing j.k and not being able to follow up more than anything ._.

Probably the most annoying thing in ASW games is that aerial tech invincibility.

Man, we had some epic finishes to our matches. I wish I was recording. -_-

Smash, Guilty Gear, KOF, Marvel... they all have a neutral game that has a few more layers to it than Street Fighter does. I rarely use the term "footsies" when I am not talking about Street Fighter.

In non-SF games, I simply use the term "neutral". Depending on the game, there are many nuances to consider which make teaching the subject very difficult.

Take Marvel as an example. Because of the height of super jumps and the various types of assists that exist, Viscant liked to talk about "quadrants" when talking about the neutral game. Dante's Jam Session is good at covering this or that quadrant, Rocket Raccoon's Log Trap covers this or that. The general idea that is shared with the "footsies" concept of street fighter is that you have attacks and you have movement, and you can combine them to possess varying amounts of control over different parts of the screen. How valuable certain parts of the screen are is up to the game.

Smash's closest fighting game analog is King of Fighters. In both Smash and KOF, you can walk or you can run (although you cannot run -away- from someone in KOF). In both Smash and KOF, you can jump at different heights and angles. In both Smash and KOF, your ability to move quickly in any direction with practically any character means that you have much more control over when and how you engage the opponent. Smash and KOF can have "footsies" (again, using the street fighter-centric, ground-based definition) at times, but since attacks from short hops are so effective, you see much more air poking than ground poking. The concept of "footsies" still applies, just at different heights.
---
"I am guessing you will agree that Smash has aerial footsies. But if that is the case, then why isn't Street Fighter jumping part of footsies?"

Because jumping in street fighter is inherently -very- risky (usually. For a noticeable exception, see Yun/Rufus in sf4). Jump at Ryu in SF2. If he's any good, you'll fall flat on your face after eating a DP, and now he can force you to block a fireball which pushes you out to nearly full-screen, and now you have to navigate the fireball minefield again to have a chance at making back the life deficit. Great players don't screw this up. Jumping makes you lose 1/4th of your life.

In Smash/KOG/GG/Marvel/etc, jumping is not something you can counter with a simple reactionary punish. You have many options in the air that make it so that the air "approach" is multi-faceted and can be completely safe depending on various factors. This gives the "air" in these games a distinctly different sense of neutral, although the same core concepts apply.
---
No matter what type of fighting game it is, neutral boils down to using movement and/or attacks to bait a reaction which you can use to score a hit or force a bad situation. If the opponent chooses not to react, there is often a simple way to take advantage of that as well (ie if they block a jumping attack in street fighter, you can force a mixup).

This is how I have been thinking about things, but then I feel like we should be applying the word "footsies" to the aerial neutral in Smash/KoF/GG/Marvel because they operate in the same way. But if that's the case, SF might as well include aerials as well, risky as they are. It is kind of odd to describe footsies as a system of attack/counter/place, but then say the term footsies doesn't apply to those other games when the same thing is going on (not being argumentative here; just reflecting on where I am in my own semantic thought).

I've been trying to categorize fighting games into subgenres recently, and I also had the thought that KoF is the closest thing to Smash out there, but KoF is still more like SF than it is like Smash, since Smash has so many unique features like shield grabbing, fast falling, shield depletion leading to unblockables, double jumping, and directional influence (on jumps I mean, not on knockback).

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

This is how I have been thinking about things, but then I feel like we should be applying the word "footsies" to the aerial neutral in Smash/KoF/GG/Marvel because they operate in the same way.

That's fair. When I teach street fighter, it's always the ground game people don't understand and they know all the other crap they can't use in SFV. I just use the word "footsies" to describe that part of the game.

 

[Coda]

Sexual intense?

I think it's just intense because it's FF7 and fLoE.

 

[Karsticles]

That's fair. When I teach street fighter, it's always the ground game people don't understand and they know all the other crap they can't use in SFV. I just use the word "footsies" to describe that part of the game.

Understood.

I'd love to see a video from you sometime about how Bison's Knee Press fits in with the whole paradigm.

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

Understood.

I'd love to see a video from you sometime about how Bison's Knee Press fits in with the whole paradigm.

It's just a huge-ass hitbox that also goes over lows.

To counter-poke it, you need to hit the startup of it or hit it after it's over. Trying to hit it "midflight" is practically impossible without invincibility.

There's isn't really any nuance to it in SF4 because the LK version is safe and the MK version usually is. If they are outside of the range of your stHK and you want to poke them, you have a tool to do so this isn't the terribly unsafe crHK. The opponent would need to anticipate your knee press with a neutral jump to counter it cleanly. If they try to catch the startup with a normal, they'd be too far away to catch the early soft spot and they just lose to the big-ass hitbox.

 

[Sayad]

GGs Tornix, whoever you are. What should I do against the full screen fire chain stance? That always wrecks me.

If they get predictable with chain patterns, mid chain loses cleanly to some character's 6P. Also, Zato's drills stay active for a long time, if Axl activate the chain stance during neutral or take long pauses between chain attacks, summoning a drill mean he can't attack as long as the drill is active.

If he's not giving you a chance to summon a drill by being too aggressive, then it should be easy to blitz him off since there's no high/low guessing with the chains.

 

[Karsticles]

It's just a huge-ass hitbox that also goes over lows.

To counter-poke it, you need to hit the startup of it or hit it after it's over. Trying to hit it "midflight" is practically impossible without invincibility.

There's isn't really any nuance to it in SF4 because the LK version is safe and the MK version usually is. If they are outside of the range of your stHK and you want to poke them, you have a tool to do so this isn't the terribly unsafe crHK. The opponent would need to anticipate your knee press with a neutral jump to counter it cleanly. If they try to catch the startup with a normal, they'd be too far away to catch the early soft spot and they just lose to the big-ass hitbox.

But in terms of footsies, doesn't Knee Press basically shut down the RPS game in favor of an "I win" button short of the Bison player making a huge mistake and getting hit by a neutral jump counter?

If they get predictable with chain patterns, mid chain loses cleanly to some character's 6P. Also, Zato's drills stay active for a long time, if Axl activate the chain stance during neutral or take long pauses between chain attacks, summoning a drill mean he can't attack as long as the drill is active.

If he's not giving you a chance to summon a drill by being too aggressive, then it should be easy to blitz him off since none of the chains hits low.

Do I really want to blow meter on that? Yeah, I was pinned full-screen against the chains, and I just blocked until it was done. I always do that, and I feel like there must be a better solution. Do you think Zato's 6P's upper body invincibility would beat it?

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

But in terms of footsies, doesn't Knee Press basically shut down the RPS game in favor of an "I win" button short of the Bison player making a huge mistake and getting hit by a neutral jump counter?

No, because the other player could also walk backwards outside of the range of LK knee press and whiff punish it (assuming the other character has a decent backwards walking speed). This is where the bison might consider other things such as

- using MK version instead, if safe in the matchup
- using crHK anyways, because they are walking backwards ie not blocking low
- walking forwards
- doing nothing

It doesn't "shut down" the RPS game, just changes it so that at a very specific range it almost always wins. Your goal as the Bison is to intercept the opponent's inclination to stay out of that space. If they stay in the space, you can use safe LK knee presses all day (albeit for very little reward, basically exactly like a hadoken).

 

[Master Milk]

It only looks funny because of hardware limitations. DoA1 had swimsuits and even a nude Kasumi CG. The series knew exactly where it want to be from the get go. This is how DoA2's ads looked in gameing magazines back in 2000/2001:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/attachments/dead_or_alive2-jpg.16491/


DoA5 is the game where they actually took effort to fix the gameplay, they even tried to get away from the fanservice stuff, but the backlash after the first gameplay reveal with Kasumi in a decent outfit made them realize how hard the game would bomb without the fanservice it's known for.

If you really think the stuff in DOA1 and 2 is on the same level as the stuff in 5, that's your problem.

GGs Milk and Karst. That was fun. I don't know how to fight Zato.

GGs to everyone who played Xrd tonight.

Probably the most annoying thing in ASW games is that aerial tech invincibility.

Man, we had some epic finishes to our matches. I wish I was recording. -_-

yea, ggs

i can't say i'm disappointed none of my terrible play was recording

 

[Shackzam]

I wanna die inside every time I get hit with Rise's rhythm game super in ultimax. Fucking killed me with like 60% left ._.

Why are you still getting hit by that lol

 

[Sayad]

Do I really want to blow meter on that? Yeah, I was pinned full-screen against the chains, and I just blocked until it was done. I always do that, and I feel like there must be a better solution. Do you think Zato's 6P's upper body invincibility would beat it?

You take a lot of damage if you just block it and you lose way more meter if you FD through it, you only lose like 15% meter on successful blitz and it gives a window to start your offense. It all depends on the situation, if you're not worried about health, just block it, in other situations, it can even be worth it to DA through it.

Not sure about Zato's 6p start up frames, but once it gets to the part of the move where it can effectively anti air, then it would definitely beat the mid chain cleanly. The chain can lose cleanly to some characters 5p if timed currently, its hit box isn't as good as it seem, it's just that challenging it is too risky.

 

[Karsticles]

You take a lot of damage if you just block it and you lose way more meter if you FD through it, you only lose like 15% meter on successful blitz and it gives a window to start your offense. It all depends on the situation, if you're not worried about health, just block it, in other situations, it can even be worth it to DA through it.

Not sure about Zato's 6p start up frames, but once it gets to the part of the move where it can effectively anti air, then it would definitely beat the mid chain cleanly. The chain can lose cleanly to some characters 5p if timed currently, its hit box isn't as good as it seem, it's just that challenging it is too risky.

IIRC Zato's 6P is upper invul 1-16.

 

[Sayad]

If you really think the stuff in DOA1 and 2 is on the same level as the stuff in 5, that's your problem.

I barely touched the free version of DoA5, but haven't seen anything more perverted in it than a nude Kasumi in DoA1 or 2, still, whatever in DoA5, doesn't change the fact that this have been the series direction from the get go.

IIRC Zato's 6P is upper invul 1-16.

Checking it in training mode, how the mid chain works is that its hit box is high as the chain is traveling through the screen, but once it reach full screen its hit box get bigger and start hitting crouching characters/low hit boxes, so wither 6P beats it cleanly, lose, or trade depends more on how fast the move comes out.

With Zato, if you read a mid chain is coming, even if it's right after blocking a low chain, you can beat it cleanly with 6p if pressed fast enough, it's hard to get that timing right though, but mashing would get you, at least, a trade.

 

[Clawww]

IIRC Zato's 6P is upper invul 1-16.

upper invul on 6p is universal, right? is it the same amount of invul for every char?