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Fighting Game Headquarters |3| [Cinematic Title Expansion Coming Soon]
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Emerson's Essentia
Banned
I don't understand
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Same reason nobody makes 2D animated features anymore. 3D is cheaper.
Emerson's Essentia
Banned
I don't understand what makes sprites/2D peculiar to what I said. It was the movement to 3D that really galvanized the genre's reputation for bleeding-edge, anyways. VF>Tekken>Killer Instinct>Soulcalibur.
Lostconfused
Member
It's also where they lost it. All of the modern "cutting edge" rendering techniques are not being used presumably because of performance cost or not having an a suitable art style.
Then there is all the blended/procedural/context sensitive/physics based animations and things like that which are entirely unsuitable for fighting games. The limited box that the fighting games are in is just not something to show of current advances in tech anymore.
KidA Seven
Member
Damn you mike.
skLaFarebear
Member
We were supposed to get a CPT today.
No Floe streams or Mike Ross.
How do I cope?
No Floe streams or Mike Ross.
How do I cope?
Emerson's Essentia
Banned
I don't disagree, but the genre hasn't evolved much, either. That stuff is probably unsuitable for FGs as we currently know them.
Mike lied, people died.
sixteen-bit
Member
what a shitty ad
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Evolved to what? I don't know what you are even implying.
skLaFarebear
Member
Nvm Floe's about to puke on stream, we back.
skLaFarebear
Member
We're about to take a trip.
irfaanator
Banned
.
KidA Seven
Member
There's going to be an 8 man tournament on Japanese television new program "Ii Spo." It's on Fuji Tv one. It will simultaneously be streamed on twitch. I'll update you guys when the stream channel is known.
The matchups:
Nemo vs Marco (eu 3s player)
Haitani vs Fuudo
Matsuri vs Haku
Eita vs Mago
April 23rd, 6 pm jpn, 2 am pst, 5 am est, 10 am UK
Red Bull also put up the kumite trailer.
https://youtu.be/GyKhrxMj2J4
This weekend's thread should have a lot of activity.
The matchups:
Nemo vs Marco (eu 3s player)
Haitani vs Fuudo
Matsuri vs Haku
Eita vs Mago
April 23rd, 6 pm jpn, 2 am pst, 5 am est, 10 am UK
Red Bull also put up the kumite trailer.
https://youtu.be/GyKhrxMj2J4
This weekend's thread should have a lot of activity.
Man, all event trailers pale in comparison to those topanga custom intro ones
9 minute guilty gear revelator trailer that shows off the features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0bb0PUV50o&feature=youtu.be
BlazBlue Braver's Revel 2016 thread up.
Also includes the exhibition matches after as well as the 11 on 11 Kanto vs Kansai battle the following day after.
Also includes the exhibition matches after as well as the 11 on 11 Kanto vs Kansai battle the following day after.
I played Melty back in high school and adored it. Unfortunately I wasn't the total computer geek I was now and didn't know how to set up the online.
I want to get into the game again but I don't see the point of investing in a series that has been finished for years and will likely only get a brief blimp due to this re-release.
Not really true. From what I've been told by people who work in animation is that 2D features are significantly cheaper to make, it's just that 3D makes more money. Pretty much every 2D feature film since Lilo and Stitch has bombed sans The Simpsons Movie.
Most fighting game developers still use sprites besides Capcom and SNK.
I want to get into the game again but I don't see the point of investing in a series that has been finished for years and will likely only get a brief blimp due to this re-release.
Not really true. From what I've been told by people who work in animation is that 2D features are significantly cheaper to make, it's just that 3D makes more money. Pretty much every 2D feature film since Lilo and Stitch has bombed sans The Simpsons Movie.
Most fighting game developers still use sprites besides Capcom and SNK.
As long as you're having fun with it why not? Who knows, a small scene might persist after this revival.
Plus there's nothing wrong with sticking to competitively dead games. Just ask shaowebb!
Even that's not entirely true. 3D has higher initial cost but can be cheaper in the long run, depending on the project. Really, that's all that matters, the scope of the project.
But yeah, 3D is more appealing to the general audience.
When you put it that way I might try it out.
For some projects yes, especially small ones. But for feature films which requires tons of unique characters and constant unique animations not really. It isn't like a video game where you constantly export models and animations. Whenever I bring up animators the video game comparisons they immediately say that comparing feature films to video games is night and day as they are hardly related.
TV shows tend to keep things cheap as possible. That's why many 2D shows use flash animation, or they use 3D models when the camera moves a lot. In the reverse many 3D tv shows tend to have 2D faces and what not on some characters so they don't have to constantly make new face models.
shaowebb
Member
This is very true. In film you don't get to go halfway. The lighting and render times are pretty meaty. You do a lot of ambient occlusion/ global illumination work and a lot more work on finer details in scenes like trees, water, fire, reflection, refraction...just generally a lot of stuff you dont typically mess with in games outside of cutscenes or more major budget titles and even then generally not to this degree. Plus you need far more elaborate control rigs and face mapping stuff in 3d animation for film compared to gaming due to the emphasis on the narrative and characters. A lot more elaborate physics, and collision stuff gets setup too. Don't even get me started on hair...Brave required a new system to be setup to get that redhead's hair right.
Animation is pretty complex and there are a lot of avenues to work within. Some of which are more focused on film than games because some stuff like global illumination is generally ludicrous to attempt at runtime in a game, but for film where its fine to do an 8 hour render of a complex scene with lots of physics being calculated its normal to use.
Marko in there! Damn dude must be really sick to be on tv with all those names.
People need to wrap their heads around that video games aren't animated features. Developers like to take shortcuts whenever possible. Even when they go 2D they often use flash animation or puppet animation. And while 3D has a lot of advantages like sharing models and animations, rarely does this get applied in films. Imagine something like say Zootopia if they took that many shortcuts, it wouldn't be the same thing.
Is this really true?!
SNK, Capcom, Bamco, Sega(their last in house effort, at least), NRS... Basically all western relevant FGs devs(SG doesn't use sprites). Only one still using sprites are anime and smaller projects indie FGs developers.
Most fighting games have dropped sprites. Regardless of cost, 3D is just more flexible from a development standpoint, and more importantly, more marketable for bigger projects.
Master Milk
Member
SG uses sprites
2D vs 3D in video games is about marketability and not cost for most projects
for smaller projects cost is likely the factor, but when a company is spending millions on a project the decision is based on marketability and what the team wants to do
2D vs 3D in video games is about marketability and not cost for most projects
for smaller projects cost is likely the factor, but when a company is spending millions on a project the decision is based on marketability and what the team wants to do
Emerson's Essentia
Banned
Someone should make a thread for that Revelator trailer. The SFV sourpusses will have a field day with it.
sixteen-bit
Member
Someone already did
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1210106
no one mentioned SF5 yet, lol
Sorry I thought sprites = 2D.
If that was the case then:
French Bread
Arc System Works (Guilty Gear Xrd is the only exception)
Examu
Lab Zero
Zero Dimension
Onanim Studio
are all some examples of developers currently developing high end 2D assets.
To add to that most Western fighting game devs never used sprites to begin with. Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat were pre-rendered from the get go.
Though if you are referring to pixel art, then that could possibly be argued as you can remove two developer from that list.
This is very true. The extra cost of using 3D is peanuts to Capcom. Due to the large overhead the move from 3D to 2D will be trivial. Ironically it is mostly these independent developers that do these high end 2D games. See TRAF.
I dont agree with this. It cant be performance cost because the amount you have to render for a 3D scene in a fighting game is pretty limited(2 characters and a background) giving you more freedom to push polygons/textures/lighting effects in your game. I think the main reason is simply that the series that were known for having cutting edge graphics havent moved to next-gen yet(Soul Calibur, Tekken, Virtua Fighter). Of those 3 series only Tekken has a sequel coming to PS4 and based on how much theyve been improving the visuals in fated retribution, with additional graphical updates planned for the PS4 release, I wouldnt count that game out for being extremely impressive graphically once it hits.
An issue previous fighting games didn't have to deal with is online play. So not only should a fighting game run at 60 fps during local play, it needs extra processing power for the netcode (and if it's rollback netcode it needs even more processing power). For instance, Killer Instinct runs at 60fps but the netcode runs at 90fps so it can update the state more frequently.
The first 3D fighting games became graphical showcases because 1) arcade hardware was more powerful and 2) one-on-one fighting in a single area does free up resources that were used to make the game more visually impressive. Casual players would pick up these games because they looked amazing.
ShinMaruku
Member
Doa has ass tech and I see no mention here. :E
Just what fighters are all about
ShinMaruku
Member
When you think about it fighters are all about nothing. Unless it's Ibuki's beauty.
Nope
Fighters are all about anime..so nothing. You right
That mask is there to hide her ugly from the world
ShinMaruku
Member
ShinMaruku
Member
Her home is your home though.
Of course Namco uses 3D. They don't make 2D fighting games.
ArcSys only use 3D for Guilty Gear. They still have Blazblue and random licensed titles like DBZ where they use 2D.
Outside of Capcom all fighting game companies are tiny devs. Even SNK's arcade/console division. ASW seems to be the only company able to juggle more than one fighting game at once. Outside of two major fighting game developers the genre has always revolved around small developers.There is this notion that 2D graphics are dying for fighting games when it just isn't true.
I don't dress in rags
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