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Fighting Games Weekly | Apr 27 - May 3 | NeoGAF actually plays games?!

C

Coffeeling

Member
ShinMaruku said:
Personlly I love when a character is in a game that does not have to play the same game as the other characters.
Click to expand...

Those kinds of characters are obnoxious pieces of shit and you should feel bad for liking them.

Master Milk said:
not without quality options

sp00ky actually was talking about this at nlbc either this week or last, about how streaming at high quality isn't really worth it because most people don't have good net to support it
Click to expand...

Sp00ky and Art are wizards though. I've never seen a low-definition stream that looks as good as theirs. Typically lo-fi stuff is all blurry and unwatchable, but somehow teamSp00ky manages to make that stuff look sharp and clean.

Kimosabae said:
So you admit your initial reaction was knee-jerk, then? :)
Click to expand...

The initial location test nerf lists were much more harsh than what he eventually got saddled with. Sad I can't say the same about Pineberry. ;_;

Juicebox_FGC said:
"This dumb character isn't working let's pick the other dumb character"
Click to expand...

SF4 in a nutshell lately. I lost? Head straight for character select.


Karsticles said:
What could be different with character selection? I love Smash's, but what else is there?
Click to expand...

Melee's character select music. It's all you need. (<3_<3)
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Its that time again...
znkMHw3.jpg


This one should get good...
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
shaowebb said:
Its that time again...
znkMHw3.jpg


This one should get good...
Click to expand...

GGxrd - Faust: Item toss
KOF 2002UM - Kasumi: Those goddamn broken rekkas.
KOF 2002UM - K': Ein Trigger
Every damn game ever: DP
UNIEL - Gordeau - Mortal Slide

I play too many characters built around abusive buttons, hard list to complete ;_;
 
A

Anne

Member
I don't really abuse specials that often when I think about it. I pick characters with busted normals and other shit lol
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
shaowebb said:
Its that time again...
znkMHw3.jpg


This one should get good...
Click to expand...

  • Air flame choke (Ganondorf Smash Bros)
  • Fire Crow (K' King of Fighters)
  • Fire Bottle (Arthur UMVC3)
  • Kasha Rekkas (Karas Tatsunoko vs Capcom)
  • Razor Chain Kick Storm Kamae Cancels ( Polimar Tatsunoko vs Capcom)
 
S

SquirrelSoup

Member
shaowebb said:
Its that time again...

This one should get good...
Click to expand...

DOT 2,4 (Kunimitsu, Tekken Rev)
SET 2 (Kunimitsu, Tekken Rev)
Coup Droit (Mitsuru, Persona Ultimax)
Air Fireball (Tsubaki, BBCP)
Psycho Sting (Decapre, USF4)

Not sure if you could call the Tekken stuff 'specials' but.. yeah. I use those A LOT. Too much.
 
A

alstein

Member
What I'd look at to make SF5 gain the casual crowd.

1) Gameplay wise: avoid obvious barriers like 1f links that make the top part of the game look inapproachable to casuals

2) Rip off MK9's challenge tower as your single-player fluff mode, and maybe rip off the krypt for unlocks like alt outfits

3) Have some badass characters like Alex, Juri. Look at what Namco has done for new characters in SC5 and T7 and run far away from it.

4) Use that $500k less to pay top players, and more to get folks to show up to events. I have real worries that SF5 e-sports money is going to choke off the pot monsters.

5) Great netcode.
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
Coffeeling said:
The initial location test nerf lists were much more harsh than what he eventually got saddled with. Sad I can't say the same about Pineberry. ;_;
Click to expand...

My point wasn't even that the changes weren't worth giving value labels but that people were showing excessive concern when we still had one more loke test to go and even those changes wouldn't be final.

Kars just takes shit way too seriously.


Fuck Elph, tho.

Parallax Scroll said:
SF5 could add fatalities
Click to expand...

I've been sincerely considering this since MKX's release: why haven't more FGs aped that gimmick? Then I remembered that it essentially was aped to hell back in the 90's.

Then I thought: does it really have to be a violent finisher? Couldn't SF do more of an extended cutscene of some sort a la Ultra combos?

But then there's already Ultras/Supers and I'm not sure the concept of finishers fits SF's tone, anyway.

If they were gonna keep Ultra/Super cinematics while adding finishers, they could apply the Xrd method for the former and go the SF4 route for the latter.
 
Blackage

Blackage

Member
I'm hoping the fact that SFV is built the ground up as a console game first that it means it'll have more single player content.

SFIV was very much just a port of the Arcade Version /w Trials.

I'm a little less worried about the Netcode, because I think Capcom's fighters have gotten better about online over time, and they're definitely listening when it comes to netcode, unlike those bastards at NetherRealm. *fist-shake*
 
A

alstein

Member
toddhunter said:
In other words, the best way to attract non fighting game players is to make SF5 not be a fighting game.
Click to expand...

That's traditionally been how FGs have tried to attract non-FG players. Stuff like story modes are created with non-FG players in mind.

Arcsys uses weeb bait to get those folks in. Skullgirls uses its excellent art.
 
M

Malice215

Member
What Capcom needs to do is make the game itself entertaining to watch. Zombie Charlie and noodles falling on someone's head don't cut it.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
alstein said:
That's traditionally been how FGs have tried to attract non-FG players. Stuff like story modes are created with non-FG players in mind.
Click to expand...

I think that is traditionally how FGs have tried to attract people who never actually play the fighting game bit. You can try this to get a better return on the investment, but when that investment is just from creating single player content, it is all a bit of a waste of time.

By example, if MK11 dropped the violence? It would sell as well as Skullgirls.

alstein said:
Skullgirls uses its excellent art.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
Kimosabae said:
What are you talking about?
Click to expand...

That Ogawa's reaction to the first loketest notes was about as appalled as mine and Karst's, or probably ten times worse. As far as I know he wrote a long diatribe as to why the nerfs were a horrible idea and sent it to ArcSys. Cue many of them being reverted in later tests. Overreaction to things not set in stone yet on his part, too?

I don't know why it's wrong to be appalled at stupid patch notes? Sounds like it's coming from the same place as all the "you gotta be excited for SFV, man, it's SFV! Don't complain about the walk speeds, it's not the final build man, it'll get better" type of comments.

To exaggerate: If someone wants to jump off a cliff without a parachute, should we just let him because he's not dead yet, and only freak out once he's a splat on the ground?

mbpm1 said:
Fixed-ish
Click to expand...

Arigatou ^^
 
A

alstein

Member
toddhunter said:
I think that is traditionally how FGs have tried to attract people who never actually play the fighting game bit. You can try this to get a better return on the investment, but when that investment is just from creating single player content, it is all a bit of a waste of time.

By example, if MK11 dropped the violence? It would sell as well as Skullgirls.



Exactly.
Click to expand...

I often wonder how Skullgirls would have done if the game wasn't Marvel-based. I think an easier game would have sold better/done better (and easier does not mean dumbed-down)

I think a Darkstalkers-based (in terms of gameplay) Skullgirls would have scared fewer people away.

Those Steamspy charts showed Skullgirls players were more likely to buy waifu games like VNs and 100% OJ than other fighting games.

I'd even go so far as to say a SG VN or RPG might do really well.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
alstein said:
I often wonder how Skullgirls would have done if the game wasn't Marvel-based. I think an easier game would have sold better/done better (and easier does not mean dumbed-down)

I think a Darkstalkers-based (in terms of gameplay) Skullgirls would have scared fewer people away.
Click to expand...

Lets be blunt. The problem with Skullgirls was that it was very slow, boring to play and had very few characters. It didn't even have a move list. It also looked (objectively) like shit.

The whole "Marvel" thing came later as in "It is the modern MvC2...come play it!!!!" Which didn't really fool anybody either. It was released as a poor package overall and that was why it didn't do too well (Also the gypsy curse that surrounded it early on didn't help).

Granted it has improved quite a bit as time has gone on. However it still isn't much fun to play and the artstyle has remained the same.

That doesn't mean there are not people who feel the complete opposite about the gameplay and art... but there just are not that many of those people and even less who actually play it.

Skullgirls needs a complete tear down to start again from square one. Those guys have proven now that they could make a top fighting game. They should do it.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Just watched NWM7 USF4 finals. Man that was so close for GAFMAN. Was cool though. JUSTAN WANG seems to be playing better this year.
 
K

Kikujiro

Member
The casual crowd needs some offline ginding to pass time on, be it a long story mode or a quest mode with unlockables, they need some incentive to play the game that's not just the fighting itself.

As I said Capcom really need to make a Road to Capcom Cup mode in which the player travels all around the world to compete in tourneys (they can promote real tournaments with online updates), fight AI based on real players and make money to spend on costumes and other unlockables.
 
A

alstein

Member
toddhunter said:
Granted it has improved quite a bit as time has gone on. However it still isn't much fun to play and the artstyle has remained the same.

That doesn't mean there are not people who feel the complete opposite about the gameplay and art... but there just are not that many of those people and even less who actually play it.

Skullgirls needs a complete tear down to start again from square one. Those guys have proven now that they could make a top fighting game. They should do it.
Click to expand...

It's not Marvel- the game does have it share of boring and frustrating- the big problem is that offense is too good in Skullgirls. When you constantly have to eat 5-way mixups, that's worse than SF4 vortex. Add in that any mistake= eating a long , rather boring-looking combo- that's why only a few people like playing the game.

The game works as intended I think, it's just that the intention does not lead to a fun game for most people, as steamrolling is too damn easy.

I agree the game needs some tearing down, which is why I'd want a sequel. I do think Mike Z would rather use the sprites he has now to make something new, rather than keep iterating on the same system, and I think he's talented enough to make a better game. (and that wouldn't be that expensive to accomplish)

I think Vampire Hunter (not Savior) would be a great inspiration.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Kikujiro said:
As I said Capcom really need to make a Road to Capcom Cup mode in which the player travels all around the world to compete in tourneys (they can promote real tournaments with online updates), fight AI based on real players and make money to spend on costumes and other unlockables.
Click to expand...

VF4 did basically all of this, other than basing the in-game locations off of real tournaments.

FWIW, it wasn't half bad. Definitely got me to play more singleplayer than I usually do, anyway.
 
A

alstein

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
VF4 did basically all of this, other than basing the in-game locations off of real tournaments.

FWIW, it wasn't half bad. Definitely got me to play more singleplayer than I usually do, anyway.
Click to expand...

It was the only fighting game I got to play for six months. It did teach me a lot of VF basics, though I learned every possible way to exploit the AI in that game.

It didn't really teach me the advanced execution concepts, but working 14-hr days 5.5 days/week meant not much time for fighting games back then (this was 2004)
 
J

Jimnymebob

Member
No idea if this is the right place to ask, but I got KoF XIII on Friday, and it's my first KoF game/the only SNK I've played more than once since Fatal Fury 3 PC, and while I'm starting to get my head around the system mechanics, I'm finding the different hop and jump techniques to be awkward to pull off on stick consistently. How should I be moving the stick to hop? I understand that you move the stick to up/diagonal up and hold it in place to jump, and by that logic I've been flicking and letting go to hop, but it isn't consistent for me.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
alstein said:
I often wonder how Skullgirls would have done if the game wasn't Marvel-based. I think an easier game would have sold better/done better (and easier does not mean dumbed-down)

I think a Darkstalkers-based (in terms of gameplay) Skullgirls would have scared fewer people away.
Click to expand...
Marvel was always easier than DS. Marketing the game that way probably would have lured in fewer people and the game got plenty of nods towards DS with the slightly monster-like designs and dark atmosphere. The offense is somewhat similar, but pushblock not being piano based and not having Dark Force definitely differentiated them. Being "Dark Deco" ultimately set it apart and an all girl roster still would have pushed the same people away. Nothing would have changed at best.
alstein said:
Those Steamspy charts showed Skullgirls players were more likely to buy waifu games like VNs and 100% OJ than other fighting games.

I'd even go so far as to say a SG VN or RPG might do really well.
Click to expand...
This isn't wrong and I'd buy whatever Lab Zero makes. It might be better for them to try another genre if they can. A lot of people are going to read your post and make shitty assumptions, though. I have 24 people on my friend list who own the game and there are around half a dozen killers among them who have wrecked me thoroughly (or decently enough). Another handful are probably around my level. I've played some of the remaining ones a few times and some of them are solid. These are not casuals by any definition I've read.

Edit: I got 58 XIII owners, 56 USFIV owners, 22 MK9 owners, 14 Injustice owners and 11 BBCSE owners. It is a nice spread.
toddhunter said:
Lets be blunt. The problem with Skullgirls was that it was very slow, boring to play and had very few characters. It didn't even have a move list. It also looked (objectively) like shit.

The whole "Marvel" thing came later as in "It is the modern MvC2...come play it!!!!" Which didn't really fool anybody either. It was released as a poor package overall and that was why it didn't do too well (Also the gypsy curse that surrounded it early on didn't help).
Click to expand...
Sometimes I am thankful for SFxT. The game had such a shitty start that not even SG's cursed birth can compete. Lab Zero lost like seven to nine months of communication and dev time. That was more than a sting. It was like getting in the ring and taking a sunday punch to the chin at the beginning of the round. There were definitely some big objective problems with the vanilla version.
toddhunter said:
Granted it has improved quite a bit as time has gone on. However it still isn't much fun to play and the artstyle has remained the same.
Click to expand...
Subjective and the art is it's strength. The people who would have picked it up had the art been different would have just been fad players for three months until the next shiny game caught their eye.
toddhunter said:
That doesn't mean there are not people who feel the complete opposite about the gameplay and art... but there just are not that many of those people and even less who actually play it.

Skullgirls needs a complete tear down to start again from square one. Those guys have proven now that they could make a top fighting game. They should do it.
Click to expand...
A lot of people play it (at least on PC). I never have problems finding games and the IRC makes networking a cinch. We're still here after three years and hundreds of posts on gaf talking about the game being dead, boring, ugly or just plain bad.
alstein said:
It's not Marvel- the game does have it share of boring and frustrating- the big problem is that offense is too good in Skullgirls. When you constantly have to eat 5-way mixups, that's worse than SF4 vortex. Add in that any mistake= eating a long , rather boring-looking combo- that's why only a few people like playing the game.

The game works as intended I think, it's just that the intention does not lead to a fun game for most people, as steamrolling is too damn easy.

I agree the game needs some tearing down, which is why I'd want a sequel. I do think Mike Z would rather use the sprites he has now to make something new, rather than keep iterating on the same system, and I think he's talented enough to make a better game. (and that wouldn't be that expensive to accomplish)

I think Vampire Hunter (not Savior) would be a great inspiration.
Click to expand...
I'll agree on one thing. The offense is stronger than ever before. The defense is going to receive major shakeups with Robo Fortune's release and continued Big Band/Fukua refinement, though. Steamrolling right now is definitely a tad strong with certain characters in the game.
 
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