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[Sayah]

3d fighting in general declined hard this gen, despite each of the 4 major series getting their best or 2nd best game in the series.

The real issue is that 3d games in the established franchises are too comparatively difficult for new blood to want to bother, when they can learn AE or grind out combos into anime games. 3d takes a lot more thinking, and thinking is something that benefits experience.

I don't think it will change unless someone comes up with a successful new IP, and companies are too risk-averse to even try that now. New IP= new chars= everyone starts from a similar page. It's not going to happen, it's way too risky ,and the only franchise with any sot of nostalgia is Toshinden.

I really wish SNK had succeeded with their 3d reboot of Samsho now.

eeeehhh. 3D fighters did fine. SCIV, SCV, T6, TTT2, VF5, VF5FS, DoA4, DoA5 and DoA5U were all pretty successful despite declining sales in the genre. I mean if you're getting Final Showdown and Ultimate updates, then clearly there must have been significant enough profits to validate an update.

If you look at the most successful fighting games from last gen, it probably goes like this:

1. Super Smash Bros. Brawl with an overwhelming sales lead on all other titles
2. Street Fighter IV across its various releases and iterations
3. Tekken 6
4. Mortal Kombat (2011)
5. Soul Calibur IV

I will agree that there needs to be a new IP for 3D fighters. On the other hand, however, I do believe 3D fighters are a lot harder to make (especially in the HD era). 2D fighters are (I assume) easier, which is why you have so many of them with new IPs all around (animmeeeee).

Namco, Sega, or Tecmo are really the only powerhouse studios for 3D fighters and they will stick with established IPs instead of risk something new. You will have TKXSF, so that's pretty much going to be your "new IP" and maybe it might introduce some ideas that might transform some parts of the genre.

And I'm sure we'll get another Tekken and another Dead or Alive. Though, I am worried about Virtua Fighter's future. Regardless, sales for these series will pick up again with next gen entries. A LOT of people are anticipating a 3D fighter to really showcase the hardware potential for PS4 so there's that.

you're probably right about each 3d series getting their best or second best entry this gen.

SCV - best or second best depending on how you feel about SCII
TT2 - second to 5BR from what I gather
VF5FS - second best to 4FT
DoA5U - best or second to 3.1

have I missed anything?

TTT2 is not second to anything. IT IS FIRSSSSSST!!!. As much as I love Tekken 5. Never played DR.

 

[Professor Beef]

NCR Salty Suite

http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby

*salty ballroom

 

[oneida]

Where are these people that would put SCV over SCII?

me

 

[irfaanator]

oh shit it's beef

 

[RedEther]

Didn't know he played T-Hawk

 

[Professor Beef]

Hope you liked seeing me get blown up by Hakan wheee

Also, someone in the room us using DJ :O

 

[irfaanator]

commentator is only saying I got secret shit, but I won't tell you

 

[Conceited]

Victheslik dropping all kinds of hints about the future of the FGC with regards to sponsorships and twitches involvement

 

[enzo_gt]

Me for one. They are close though. They could flip positions on any given day.

me

Y'all are crazy. From the roster to the featureset to the design of the combat SCV is rushed, lacking and in places nonsensical. SCII is pretty much made of magic in comparison.

 

[gutabo]

Victheslik dropping all kinds of hints about the future of the FGC with regards to sponsorships and twitches involvement

What did he say?

 

[alstein]

I'd argue SCIII arcade is best in the series for SC.

 

[Kumubou]

I suspect Watson's wrong with the numbers he's expecting for Sega Cup -- Eventbrite is showing that 76 tickets remain, and they started with 128. There's been 52 paid entries so far, and you'll see a bunch of people register near/at the deadline. They'll probably have a 64-man bracket, at least.

Y'all are crazy. From the roster to the featureset to the design of the combat SCV is rushed, lacking and in places nonsensical. SCII is pretty much made of magic in comparison.

I don't like some of the design decisions in SC5 (Just Impact is an awful mechanic, guh) and I'm still mad that both of my mains in SC4 got dropped in 5. SC2 is a slopfest in its own way, although that's not really apparent until you start getting into higher level play. Honestly, the best SC game is probably SC3:AE -- but about 6 people in America have played that. I still think they should have remastered SC3 this generation instead, using the content of the PS2 version and the mechanics (and Conquest mode) from AE.

 

[Thomasorus]

While people compares Soul Calibur titles, they forget to say Soul Calibur 5 didn't have any additionnal hit stun on counterhits, and that the clean hit was totally random and gave extra damage for no reason.
The only interesting thing in SC5 is how they managed to create fireball characters like Algol and Viola, and make them usefull (if not broken). That's something very cool and new for 3D fighters.

 

[90TilInfinity]

Some more a-cho ULTRA STREET FIGHTER IV gameplay

It took less than 2 days for this Ibuki to adapt to DWU, lol. Gotta respect that.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

I really liked the character creation in SC5. >.>

 

[pixelish]

What did he say?

there's a possibility that teamliquid and other esports team will be picking up more fg players (not exclusively smash players) soon.

 

[kiaaa]

It took less than 2 days for this Ibuki to adapt to DWU, lol. Gotta respect that.

that cammy was just using DWU over and over so the timing never changed. I think if she mixed in normal wakeups, it'd be a lot harder for Ibuki to use her vortex.

 

[SimSimIV]

El fuerte is looking scary in USF4. Vortex does't seem to be ruined because you can partially adjust your set ups, and I saw a fuerte do combos like:
Overhead, c.lk xx quesadilla bomb (the chare chest bump) xx ex red focus, run stop fierce (stun), U2.

 

[CountBlack]

Was on twitter and looking up Ultra 4.. saw someone tweet this about T.Hawk lol

 

[sixteen-bit]

Catwalk Police

http://instagram.com/p/m-JP04AISy/

 

[Ryu1999]

that cammy was just using DWU over and over so the timing never changed. I think if she mixed in normal wakeups, it'd be a lot harder for Ibuki to use her vortex.

That Ibuki went on a 40 game winning streak holy crap. Vortex still looks pretty braindead to me even with DWU.

 

[SimSimIV]

Zangitan was on a 42 win streak with Zangief earlier too, so it's kind of silly that so many gief players said he wasn't viable with the reverted buffs:/

 

[Thomasorus]

Gamers Assembly SF4 tournament is live : http://cpc.cx/9Ad
(Dailymotion only sorry Twitch fans :/)

Players : Luffy, Dieminion, Starnab, Saunic, Valmaster, Lior, Adon, Kayane, Perplex. Almost all big french players are there except for Kusanagi and Gagapa, so if you want to discover some of the hidden players of the french FGC, just watch !

 

[Shito]

Nice, thanks for the heads up!

 

[Conceited]

there's a possibility that teamliquid and other esports team will be picking up more fg players (not exclusively smash players) soon.

And they will be flying more players out like they did with Wao and Michael Tan.

New desk video

 

[Keits]

On the other hand, however, I do believe 3D fighters are a lot harder to make (especially in the HD era). 2D fighters are (I assume) easier, which is why you have so many of them with new IPs all around (animmeeeee).

Just chiming in here. At least on the development end, one isn't really "harder" than the other. Depending on what you are trying to make, one might be more expensive than the other, but it swings both ways.

 

[Shouta]

Was on twitter and looking up Ultra 4.. saw someone tweet this about T.Hawk lol

Lol perfect.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

https://twitter.com/Kim1234_ALL_DAY/status/457517180280504320

USF4 seems to be heading down the path of drawn out zoning. Take that for what it is

 

[Dahbomb]

Seems like conflicted reports.

Some people say top characters with set play will still set play you to death because they will adjust to DWU on the fly.

Others say game is more zoning/footsie heavy because of DWU.


Then of course Red Focus where you eat a cr.MK MP TK of Viper into RF Ultra.

 

[Sayah]

Just chiming in here. At least on the development end, one isn't really "harder" than the other. Depending on what you are trying to make, one might be more expensive than the other, but it swings both ways.

Since you're a dev, I'll take your word for it. But can you possibly explain then why we haven't had much in the way of new traditional 3D fighter IPs if development costs are not as high? And by traditional, I don't mean Castlevania Judgment or Anarchy Reigns.

Since this page is referencing SCV, I look at this and I don't think something at this level (3D stage design, lightning and hit effects, character models, expansive movelist with a variety of animations, etc). would be possible for a low budget developer unless you're given the proper funds to create this level of extremely high production values.

 

[Horseress]

https://twitter.com/Kim1234_ALL_DAY/status/457517180280504320

Seems like conflicted reports.

Some people say top characters with set play will still set play you to death because they will adjust to DWU on the fly.

Others say game is more zoning/footsie heavy because of DWU.


Then of course Red Focus where you eat a cr.MK MP TK of Viper into RF Ultra.

Watching some videos all I see is people using DWU all the time, so it's easy for the other guy to adapt

Anyway, it's still really soon to take any conclusions, we'll have to wait till at least EVO to define something about Ultra

 

[Kimosabae]

While people compares Soul Calibur titles, they forget to say Soul Calibur 5 didn't have any additionnal hit stun on counterhits, and that the clean hit was totally random and gave extra damage for no reason.
The only interesting thing in SC5 is how they managed to create fireball characters like Algol and Viola, and make them usefull (if not broken). That's something very cool and new for 3D fighters.

I don't see why CHs need to increase hitstun given the different states often associated with getting CH by many moves. Also, CH is more prevalent in a game like SC where there's Run, BAckdash, Sidestep and Hit counters. The combo system would be way too open for my tastes considering the movelists

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Since you're a dev, I'll take your word for it. But can you possibly explain then why we haven't had much in the way of new traditional 3D fighter IPs if development costs are not as high? And by traditional, I don't mean Castlevania Judgment or Anarchy Reigns.

Since this page is referencing SCV, I look at this and I don't think something at this level (3D stage design, lightning and hit effects, character models, expansive movelist with a variety of animations, etc). would be possible for a low budget developer unless you're given the proper funds to create this level of extremely high production values.

Follow the money? SCV's development troubles are well known, and TTT2 bombed pretty hard.

 

[Dahbomb]

3D fighting game development is a bigger risk than 2D FG development at the moment. The reason we don't have new 3D IP is quite simple... the return of investment will not be there. The budget required to make a quality 3D fighter on par with stuff like Tekken/VF/SC would not be recovered by the revenue of the sales.

If long time IPs are struggling then new IPs would have an even bigger problem. Only way to shake up 3D fighters is if one of the big IPs pulls a SF4.

 

[Sayah]

Follow the money? SCV's development troubles are well known, and TTT2 bombed pretty hard.

Both games sold over 1.5 million. I wouldn't call that bombing hard. It's just lower sales due to the previous games in these series doing close to or over 3 million (SCIV and Tekken 6).

3D fighting game development is a bigger risk than 2D FG development at the moment. The reason we don't have new 3D IP is quite simple... the return of investment will not be there. The budget required to make a quality 3D fighter on par with stuff like Tekken/VF/SC would not be recovered by the revenue of the sales.

If long time IPs are struggling then new IPs would have an even bigger problem. Only way to shake up 3D fighters is if one of the big IPs pulls a SF4.

That's pretty much how I see it. Plus SFIV had a lot of nostalgia attached since the franchise was missing a real entry for a decade or more.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

Makes me wonder if TxSF will do all that well when/if it finally comes out. Is it really going to draw in people from the somewhat larger pool of Capcom players?

 

[Keits]

Since you're a dev, I'll take your word for it. But can you possibly explain then why we haven't had much in the way of new traditional 3D fighter IPs if development costs are not as high? And by traditional, I don't mean Castlevania Judgment or Anarchy Reigns.

I have zero insight into why publishers and other developers are not starting new 3D fighter IP projects. All I can tell you is that there is functionally no difference between doing a 2D or 3D fighting game in terms of development. Everything (number of characters, complexity of characters, quality of character models, quality of stages, stage interactivity, etc) is determined by budget, and your budget is simply what money the publisher is willing to spend (and of course, they want to see a significant return on).

 

[Dahbomb]

Makes me wonder if TxSF will do all that well when/if it finally comes out. Is it really going to draw in people from the somewhat larger pool of Capcom players?

Well SFxT has shown that it's not a guaranteed recipe for success. But if it looks good and plays well then maybe it can take off. Being one of the first next gen fighting games could give it a solid boost. Or I should say current gen now.

 

[Busaiku]

2D fighters are (I assume) easier, which is why you have so many of them with new IPs all around (animmeeeee).

There were tons of new IPs 2 gens ago.
Indies just never got the attention that they do now.

Both games sold over 1.5 million. I wouldn't call that bombing hard. It's just lower sales due to the previous games in these series doing close to or over 3 million (SCIV and Tekken 6).

I never understand where Namco manages to ship their games, but retailers in the US/Europe/Japan couldn't possibly keep buying it.
Sales to consumers are actually pretty low for Tekken Tag Tournament 2.

 

[GooeyHeat]

Does it bug anybody else that delayed wake-up says "technical" before they get up (or at all)? It almost makes it easier to adjust to, at least for that Ibuki.

 

[Revven]

SSBM & Project M regional Fight Pitt VI is live: http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

 

[Infinite]

Does it bug anybody else that delayed wake-up says "technical" before they get up (or at all)? It almost makes it easier to adjust to, at least for that Ibuki.

Welp. Ibuki is simply meant to be a set play character and delayed wake up probably isn't gonna change that. The only way she won't have vortex of they make neck breaker soft knockdown and guess what they reverted that change.

 

[Skab]

I just noticed that red focus uses the gem sound from SFxT.

 

[TheChits]

Fight Pitt IV melee and project m regional. Lots of good players there
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp
Edit: whoops, completely missed that this was posted

 

[Sayah]

I have zero insight into why publishers and other developers are not starting new 3D fighter IP projects. All I can tell you is that there is functionally no difference between doing a 2D or 3D fighting game in terms of development. Everything (number of characters, complexity of characters, quality of character models, quality of stages, stage interactivity, etc) is determined by budget, and your budget is simply what money the publisher is willing to spend (and of course, they want to see a significant return on).

Really no difference? I mean there has to be some difference. lol

There were tons of new IPs 2 gens ago.
Indies just never got the attention that they do now.

Development costs were lower back then too, though, compared to now. I know Harada mentioned that Tekken 6 was the highest budgeted and hardest to make Tekken game.

I never understand where Namco manages to ship their games, but it's not in the US, Japan, Europe, or Australia.
Sales to consumers are actually pretty low for Tekken Tag Tournament 2.

Nah. From the Feb. 2013 report, TTT2 sold, not shipped, 1.3 million. It should actually be close to 2 million by now across the PS3/360/Wii U versions. Plus, TTT2 didn't get a price drop until like close to a year after its release.

 

[Fersis]

https://twitter.com/Kim1234_ALL_DAY/status/457517180280504320

Jumping to conclusions on day what? 2?

Are we doing this again?

BTW im fixing a bit the overlays for NCR, easier to read now!

 

[Busaiku]

Nah. From the Feb. 2013 report, TTT2 sold, not shipped, 1.3 million. It should actually be close to 2 million by now across the PS3/360/Wii U versions. Plus, TTT2 didn't get a price drop until like close to a year after its release.

Namco Bandai's fiscal reports are all shipment numbers, unless otherwise noted (citing NPD, Media Create, etc).
This applies to all companies.

They sold the games to retailers, and thus it counts as "sold" for them.

 

[Dahbomb]

Jumping to conclusions on day what? 2?

Are we doing this again?

BTW im fixing a bit the overlays for NCR, easier to read now!

It's the FGC... of course we are going to jump to conclusions!

It's what makes this whole process fun. Top player X declares Y character top tier and then a month later character Y isn't as good as perceived. Top player X gets put on blast


I am interested in seeing Tokido's tier list though.

 

[theprodigy]

SSBM & Project M regional Fight Pitt VI is live: http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

Wait so which stream is carrying NCR Melee?

 

[TheChits]

Wait so which stream is carrying NCR Melee?

Pretty sure it will be here
http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme