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[shoplifter]

So strange that games that aren’t trying to push the san francisco agenda like Wukong, Balratro, Palworld, Marvel Rivals, etc didn’t flop. What could be the common denominator here? Nah its the gamers who are wrong.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I, for one, thought the text of the article well written and backed-up by figures and good context.
More interesting in fact than 80% of the comments in this thread, that effectively reached a low point.

Hopefully i do not work in the industry, and code in another field because i would hate to have such customers.

Thank god you came to raise the bar, your post is Nobel prize-worthy, for sure.

 

[Sooner]

"Far right" now means anyone who isn't far-left. Ok.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Last night I bought an old school game on steam. It was poorly named, creeper, but it’s such a fun game. It’s like $2 and a great time. Highly recommend it

 

[BigBeauford]

I, for one, thought the text of the article well written and backed-up by figures and good context.
More interesting in fact than 80% of the comments in this thread, that effectively reached a low point.

Hopefully i do not work in the industry, and code in another field because i would hate to have such customers.

Consumers are under zero obligation to buy a product they don't want. If it were happening in any other industry, the course correction would have happened long ago. Instead, the games' journalism industry only exists to serve the interests of the publishers, thus articles like these.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

I'm so glad they blame gamers because, yes, with we don't want that deep shit in our games, at least, not artificially and only to fill a political agenda.

FUCK YOU to all these young and old DEVS, I hope you will FAIL again and again.

Go back to school to learn assembly and optimize games instead, assholes money waster and social media whiners. So tired to hear moaning these snowflakes: you reap what you sow crybabies

 

[mdkirby]

If they are placing the blame on gamers, then i have a feeling 2024 was very much not the year the bottom fell out. If they just keep blaming their customers and not listening to their customers, the industry is in for far far worse years than 2024, there’ll be a catastrophic crash before they wake up.

 

[MagiusNecros]

If they are placing the blame on gamers, then i have a feeling 2024 was very much not the year the bottom fell out. If they just keep blaming their customers and not listening to their customers, the industry is in for far far worse years than 2024, there’ll be a catastrophic crash before they wake up.

Gaming will be fine. We will just let old companies die and keep supporting Indie devs that have a passion for making good games. AAA gaming however will be like looking for a gold needle in a stack of silver needles.

 

[Peroroncino]

Hear hear, and here's to another year where I'll continue to ignore DEI games.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Spending hundreds of millions of dollars on one game isn't sustainable when the games are bad or filled with poison pill propaganda. Makes it very easy for consumers to bankrupt big companies that either do not understand their audience or are catering to an audience that isn't large enough to sustain them.

If your audience wants Hamburgers and you serve them Hot Dogs don't be surprised when very few buy your Hot Dogs...when they go somewhere else to get a Hamburger.

Pfftt... Hotdogs?!? These mofos are trying to sell us a vegan salad with fermented soy bean dressing.

 

[WoJ]

These games are all trash that they reference. Derivative, politically infused slop. It's not the small number of enthuisiast gamers who dislike woke crap causing these games to fail. Seriously, no casual gamer, who you need to reach the absurd sales numbers that devs need to make a game profitable, knows what Gamergate 2 is or who SBI is. You're losing sales on the margins (in most cases) because of anti woke pushback. But your games are just uninspired derivative slop no one wants to buy.

I've spent time playing Batman Arkham City and the OG FF7 the last few days. It's really quite astounding how those games - 14 and 27 years old - do more to pull me in and just be a fun game compared to a lot of stuff today. And I've played both of those games several times so it isn't like they are new experiences. They're fun to play and I am enjoying playing them and being part of the worlds they've created.

The game industry is so weird in regards to the bubble they are in regarding their consumers compared to almost any other industry. Other industries want to make money and will pander as they can, but not at the extent of profit. Whereas the game industry seems to care more about pandering than profit but then complains when they don't make money and lose their jobs.

The people who wanted to snub and boycott Hogwarts Legacy are also the same ones claiming that the "far right" (which is a completely meaningless term at this point btw) is causing this.

Maybe you psychos are just making shit games while smelling your own farts.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Pfftt... Hotdogs?!? These mofos are trying to sell us a vegan salad with fermented soy bean dressing.

If I was to compare a salad it would be the audience wanting a fresh salad and only being given salad one week out of date covered in fruit flies.

 

[Plague Doctor]

The people who wanted to snub and boycott Hogwarts Legacy are also the same ones claiming that the "far right" (which is a completely meaningless term at this point btw) is causing this.

Far right to these fucks basically means you disagree with one of their vanity issues. You could be a card carrying liberal on 9 topics but differ from them on the 10th, boom... total fascist. Fuck everything else you espouse as your values. You disagree with just this one and didn't give in.

Edit: And it's that cult like, immature all-or-nothing mentality is why they are thankfully destined to fail. You don't make friends and allies by demanding total compliance.

 

[Wildebeest]

Wired must be desperate for clicks.

 

[Banjo64]

DEI chin being reported on in a Panorama-esque style is fucking funny.

 

[Korranator]

These far left nut jobs need to come out of their safe place bubbles.

The far right nothing to do with this. Try moderates.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Let's keep using DEI Chin.

 

[Tams]

The last two decades of consoles and their physical games are killing sales of new consoles and their games. Anybody can buy a used PS2 for next to nothing and download every single PS2 game onto a HDD for free. Anybody with a PC can do the exact same thing for SNES and almost every Nintendo game since. PlayStation and Nintendo have so many great games available for free online as ISO/ROM that anybody could easily keep themselves entertained for decades without spending any money. These 'free' games are in many ways better than newer games and have superior technical specs that directly affect gameplay - SNES HW has no load times and almost no input latency, PS2 has relatively short load times via HDD and almost no input latency. Both PS and Nintendo's current gen consoles have long console boot up times, long game load times and significant input latency.

Both PS and Nintendo need to abandon physical media to save the future of gaming. New games will have a better shot at a future when old games are brought to new consoles via HW emulation(PS2/1 HW on a PS5, SNES HW on a Switch, etc.) and sold as digital-only games at regular price, supporting both studios and platforms. Until then the best way to play legacy games is always going to be on legacy HW, or in Nintendo's case 3rd party FGPA HW. In effect this situation forces users to play games in a way that doesn't make studios or platforms any money.

Nintendo Switch hardware and game sales single-handedly destroy your arguments.

Nintendo are doing well for one main reason: they make exclusive games that focus on gameplay and being fun to play.

There's no focus on inclusivity, diversity, or DEI, though by lacking those they also have added attraction to those of us who are just tired and want an escape.

 

[Tams]

I, for one, thought the text of the article well written and backed-up by figures and good context.
More interesting in fact than 80% of the comments in this thread, that effectively reached a low point.

Hopefully i do not work in the industry, and code in another field because i would hate to have such customers.

1. You'd, or at least should, expect an article for a major publisher to be well written. Nothing special there.
2. Yes, the fact that the market is crashing is well backed up, but that too is the bare minimum.
3. You've failed to see that the issue here is the attribution for the crash, which isn't backed up by facts but rather mere opinion and conjecture. And it's causing a stir here because: a) it's about our hobby and b) it's in part quite literally blaming GAF.

It's not our fault that large parts of the industry are making games that we just aren't willing to part with our money for.

 

[Salz01]

It’s ok to have diversity. It’s just how these shitty game companies implement it and force feed it.

 

[HJuggernaut]

this article feels like its straight from 2017, must've been a slow news day. at the end of the day, nobody gets to dictate what I do with MY money, I am not required by any law to buy games I'm not interested in.

 

[Clear]

Considering even Disney is showing signs of having finally got the message, DEI as a corporate imperative cannot be what it once was.

 

[Saber]

I, for one, thought the text of the article well written and backed-up by figures and good context.
More interesting in fact than 80% of the comments in this thread, that effectively reached a low point.

Hopefully i do not work in the industry, and code in another field because i would hate to have such customers.

You're too wise to work on the gaming industry. Perhaps you fit more on gaming journalism where you can pretend to be an adult, drink soy all day and hate the very area you work . In the meantime gamers gonna remain choosing what they want to play/buy(pretty much like any consumer from any industry) and take all the blame for it regardless. I'm with you on the last part though, hopefully all work out for you and you don't end up working on the gaming industry. Its already way too much poluted, we certainly don't need more garbage.

 

[spookyfish]

Legacy media is so predictable.

“Circle the wagons? You got it!”

 

[Fabieter]

I'm more liberal than conservative. Sort of a middle of the road kinda person..

But even I don't want to see your woke shit in games. And then they blame some made up right wing gaming communities?

Why is this even a political debate lol

If you are far left than even the middle appears to be to far right. Iam in the same position tho.

 

[ProtoByte]

But even I don't want to see your woke shit in games. And then they blame some made up right wing gaming communities?

They're not made up, and we have to be careful about how much the true "far right" gets emboldened.
But they are not the reason why Outlaws, Dragon Age and Concord flopped. Those games were just not appealing.

The fact is, there aren't many creative visionaries that can demand a budget of 250m to play with who will also be left alone long enough to pull something off.

Unless it's Kojima ofc, then they'll let him spend years and engines making self indulgent literal walking sims.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

People not liking something are “bad actors” now? Wtf logic is this?

Makes me want to double down on this shit even more. Who wants to join my GamerGate 2.0 bad actor far right discord server?

 

[KingT731]

Thing is though....if yall care that much about that stuff (DEI) then it clearly becomes an intelligence issue since words mean things.

 

[strike670]

I don't know, maybe some of these games like Suicide Squad just suck and are not fun to play. I didn't avoid it because of woke or DEI or whatever buzz word people use online, I decided to not play it after watching some playthroughs and seeing it's derivative and soulless. And Dragon Age based on what I have seen barely seems like a DA game.

 

[MacReady13]

I think this DEI bullshit has certainly not helped these idiots (not only in terms of story telling in game but also the hiring of people who really aren't the best in their field but are there due to diversity hiring).

Sadly I don't think much will change as the media seem to be on there side and you just need to look at the game awards to see a room (mostly) full of cunts who love the smell of their own stinky assholes. They don't care what their customers want- in fact they MOCK their own customers! It is an unbelievable thing to do but somehow game makers and "journos" see it fit to lambast gamers when we are the people with easily the most influence in that spcae.

 

[AtomicStarving]

LMAO NO F WAY

 

[MALpractice311]

It’s ok to have diversity. It’s just how these shitty game companies implement it and force feed it.

Keeping it 100, right here. I've played and enjoyed many games that feature women, or black people, or gay or lesbian people, or whatever other ethnic/racial/sexual minority you can think of as main and/or supporting characters. My real problem with the last 3 to 5 years of Western produced games is that their writing sounds like (1) the writers have never stepped foot out of Portland, Seattle, or Silver Lake and (2) they've only ever consumed media written by Joss Whedon and are doing their best/worst impression of him that they can and Joss Whedon is completely overrated to start with.

 

[Silver Wattle]

Fact: Investment money that comes with strings attached (DEI/ESG requirements)kills games and gaming studios.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

That thing was reviewing dildos before, no jokes, thats what those journos do

I want to lay into those types. We have degenerate(s) who review materials that were shaped into phallic devices, designed for sexual penetration... then same individual trying to shit talk Hogwarts Legacy?
This is why gaming is turning to shit. We have too many mentally unstable people running things and gatekeeping shit. This person should fucking work for Brazzers or something. Get out of the gaming space.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

You're too wise to work on the gaming industry. Perhaps you fit more on gaming journalism where you can pretend to be an adult, drink soy all day and hate the very area you work . In the meantime gamers gonna remain choosing what they want to play/buy(pretty much like any consumer from any industry) and take all the blame for it regardless. I'm with you on the last part though, hopefully all work out for you and you don't end up working on the gaming industry. Its already way too much poluted, we certainly don't need more garbage.

You just proved exactly the point of my post...

Since when being a gamer involved insults and aggressivity ? .

Fed up to chat with mononeuronal teen clowns.

 

[Shadowstar39]

I think a lot of people here look at firms like sweet baby as the problem - but they're a symptom of the real problem imo.
It's that many big budget games aren't being led by a singular visionary anymore - there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Creative decisions happen by committee and outside of forced DEI, it's very hard to put a finger on why a game lacks soul - but as a result of this watered down design by committee approach, there's always some element like this forced DEI to point the finger at too because one investor thought it would make things safer.

The fact is, there aren't many creative visionaries that can demand a budget of 250m to play with who will also be left alone long enough to pull something off. The investors would be terrified of that person fucking it up, so they demand its a team process and everyone gets a say, and it sucks the passion out of the process which absolutely can be felt in the final product.

This makes sense only somewhat. If they are afraid of the risk why let the woke people run wild? They know it will piss gamers off and become low in sales. Why not squash that before it becomes a thing? They have to run these games over focus groups and the higher ups right? Are they all in a woke bubble? I find that hard to believe. They can't possibly think the real world is like resetera, can they?

 

[KingT731]

I think this DEI bullshit has certainly not helped these idiots (not only in terms of story telling in game but also the hiring of people who really aren't the best in their field but are there due to diversity hiring).

Sadly I don't think much will change as the media seem to be on there side and you just need to look at the game awards to see a room (mostly) full of cunts who love the smell of their own stinky assholes. They don't care what their customers want- in fact they MOCK their own customers! It is an unbelievable thing to do but somehow game makers and "journos" see it fit to lambast gamers when we are the people with easily the most influence in that spcae.

What is DEI BS exactly, what does that mean to YOU and why does it make you feel this way? You are using a lot of terms that I don't think you know what they actually mean or are.

 

[PeteBull]

No my point is Astrobot is selling well and it doesn't have any agenda in it at all. The only agenda is to have fun.

That is actually our point, high quality game, properly budgeted, not overinflated budget for DEI hires nor pushing woke propaganda, and voila, high review scores, GOTY win, solid sales numbers and every1 is happy, sony, us-their customers, reviewers, devs, we want more of that

 

[PeteBull]

"Far right" now means anyone who isn't far-left. Ok.

That is actually very true, in todays leftwing mind CNN from the early 90s are actually rightwing extremists, look how they praising all white male dev studio, dont ask difficult questions about diversity, equity and inclusion but actually do genuine solid reporter work there:

 

[mckmas8808]

That is actually very true, in todays leftwing mind CNN from the early 90s are actually rightwing extremists, look how they praising all white male dev studio, dont ask difficult questions about diversity, equity and inclusion but actually do genuine solid reporter work there:

We can say the same thing about some of you guys too. Some of yall believe anything that's not a Gears of War or a Stellar Blade main character is now a DEI laced mess of a game. I think there are too many from both extremes that want things their way. And if it's not, they crap on it and call it extremist thinking.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

That is actually very true, in todays leftwing mind CNN from the early 90s are actually rightwing extremists, look how they praising all white male dev studio, dont ask difficult questions about diversity, equity and inclusion but actually do genuine solid reporter work there:

Gross all white males, 16 hour work day crunch culture, toxic gatekeeping saying that it's not enough to have programming skils (wait why do you need that I'm Alanah Pearce I am a talented gamedev), but that you also have to play games?? Whole thing is so stupid and belongs in the past.

 

[Neilg]

This makes sense only somewhat. If they are afraid of the risk why let the woke people run wild? They know it will piss gamers off and become low in sales. Why not squash that before it becomes a thing? They have to run these games over focus groups and the higher ups right? Are they all in a woke bubble? I find that hard to believe. They can't possibly think the real world is like resetera, can they?

You're making a few assumptions that contradict my point.
There are a lot of people with opinions. One says 'we have to make sure we don't offend anyone', another says 'lets hire a diversity consultant'. This in itself is not a problem, in theory. Gamers don't care if the script makes a pass to make sure nobody is punching down and there's a little demographic fairness. You can run this by a focus group and on paper the changes are fine, people don't have a problem with it. It'll pass every time.
Baldurs gate 3 is very inclusive, doesn't punch down, and is progressive. What's the difference? The director is the CEO of the company, has a singular vision for what they're making, and it's self funded so they don't have investors breathing down their neck. It can work.

Now onto the difference with other games designed by committee, which don't work - The person who is supposed to be the director is already drowning in comments, feedback, little changes because all these people have opinions on other parts of the process. They're exhausted - and my point is, this is the stage where the game is screwed.
Then the consultant enters the room. The loudest voice in a committee gets their way because everyone else is so fucking exhausted from arguing and attempting to find compromises. everyone gives up fighting.
If the game wasn't already being made by committee, the director would push for compromises to the DEI suggestions to keep their vision alive and find a happy medium. The changes do not get the same love, care and integration into the game. it being a bad part of the game happens late. This is not 'letting these people run wild', it's 'we've got too much shit to do over here and I'm sick of arguing with people with different opinions'.

Then the game comes out and players can feel the absolute vacuum of passion that the game was made under, clearly phoned in by a bunch of 9-5'ers, and dragged over the finish line by a director who spends more time in meetings than actually directing, and it's hard to articulate why it's not fun. But THATS why sales are low. DEI does not lower sales, and they have data from games like BG3 to prove it.

The other thing all these modern games have in common, beyond DEI, is a lack of attention to detail in environmental reactions - you've seen the videos of bullet decals in concord, effects missing in outlaws. Most of what crowbcat puts out. Those things also happen as a result of a team that doesn't have great leadership where everyone turns up to work to wait to go home. It does feel very silly pointing at those minor details as an example of why a game didn't sell, but it's a symptom of a lack of passion.

 

[Merkades]

I am more liberal than conservative, I have never voted republican yet, though I do sometimes abstain from voting if I dislike both candidates (and, tbf, I currently dislike the democratic party, just not quite as much as the republicans). The point is, I am hardly right wing and I am definitely against the woke. I think dems are suffering some from losing more moderate people, and that these journalists are doing no one any favors by ignoring that (or not noticing). Their problems are larger than just the right, especially extremists.

 

[awwr999999]

I'd be really surprised if retro console gaming was taking away from AAA gaming in a big way, but there are these evergreen games like Minecraft, GTA5, Roblox, Fortnite, etc and those make up a really big chunk of the gaming landscape these days.

With consoles it's an offline black hole that no one has any real data on. Steam OTOH has numbers on their legacy game sales.

Nintendo Switch hardware and game sales single-handedly destroy your arguments.
Nintendo are doing well for one main reason: they make exclusive games that focus on gameplay and being fun to play.

Nintendo's Switch is a massive part of the problem. Switch games run on ARM/Nvidia that's easy to emulate and Nintendo's use of physical cartridges means 100% of them end up online as ROMs.
Switch not being exotic HW is abnormally easy to emulate while PS games that won't emulate on PC now will be playable via emulation on PC at some point in the future.
There's a growing number of modern console games (PS/Nintendo) that you can play on a PC via emulation for free.
Every new physical release game from PS and Nintendo gets ripped and goes into this massive heap of 'free PC games' (illegal, but available 'free').
The bigger this pile gets the more attractive PC gaming becomes and the less important console gaming becomes.
Both PS and Nintendo are dooming themselves and console gaming as a whole by abandoning esoteric HW and continuing to use physical media.
The combination of those two factors makes every physical game success today a reason to switch to PC tomorrow.
Obvious solution for PS and Nintendo is invest in dedicated esoteric HW and digital-only game systems that make ripping usable games from HW impossible.

 

[Tams]

With consoles it's an offline black hole that no one has any real data on. Steam OTOH has numbers on their legacy game sales.

Nintendo's Switch is a massive part of the problem. Switch games run on ARM/Nvidia that's easy to emulate and Nintendo's use of physical cartridges means 100% of them end up online as ROMs.
Switch not being exotic HW is abnormally easy to emulate while PS games that won't emulate on PC now will be playable via emulation on PC at some point in the future.
There's a growing number of modern console games (PS/Nintendo) that you can play on a PC via emulation for free.
Every new physical release game from PS and Nintendo gets ripped and goes into this massive heap of 'free PC games' (illegal, but available 'free').
The bigger this pile gets the more attractive PC gaming becomes and the less important console gaming becomes.
Both PS and Nintendo are dooming themselves and console gaming as a whole by abandoning esoteric HW and continuing to use physical media.
The combination of those two factors makes every physical game success today a reason to switch to PC tomorrow.
Obvious solution for PS and Nintendo is invest in dedicated esoteric HW and digital-only game systems that make ripping usable games from HW impossible.

Mate, the Switch is possibly on track to be the best selling console ever. It's software sales are also incredibly high.

Just because you are happy and prefer pirating does not mean many millions of people aren't, or just can't be bothered to. So long as Nintendo go after the most egregious pirating (the sources), they will be fine.

Further, pushing the PC as a platform on the fact that you can easily pirate on does our community here no good.

 

[Jetpac]

I mean i’m black, young. I’m def the opposite of right wing. I don’t wanna see that crap forced in my games or to my kid.

Also, i’ve never seen ANYONE with any sort of an IQ upset with a black lead in games.

 

[Big Al]

You just proved exactly the point of my post...

Since when being a gamer involved insults and aggressivity ? .

Fed up to chat with mononeuronal teen clowns.

Read the room. The masses don't want and will not stand for this force fed woke shit. We are the consumers, we control the market.

Man up and wash the sand out of your vagina.

 

[Gambit2483]

Mate, the Switch is possibly on track to be the best selling console ever. It's software sales are also incredibly high.

Just because you are happy and prefer pirating does not mean many millions of people aren't, or just can't be bothered to. So long as Nintendo go after the most egregious pirating (the sources), they will be fine.

Further, pushing the PC as a platform on the fact that you can easily pirate on does our community here no good.

Exactly. You main selling point for PC to just illegally STEAL every game? Really?

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Starting to understand why Sony loves Wired so much. Probably inking a deal to give them the first Intergalactic gameplay as we speak.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Glorious. Long may it continue.