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Fighting Games Weekly | Aug 3-10 | Rising to the Occasion

W

WarRock

Member
Holy Order Sol said:
Picking a top tier for the purpose of competing and learning what the hell it is that other characters actually do aren't mutually exclusive. Not doing the latter is fucking up but that doesn't mean you're wrong in doing the former.
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So America has two things to do instead of one =)

I'm actually interested if SFV makes things better or worse, constantly releasing new characters instead of having everyone unlocked from the beginning.
 
G

GooeyHeat

Member
I've been thinking about this for a bit recently.

Sometimes I think the US fighting game community is a bit too... focused for my tastes? The scene seems very... determined, in a competitive way, that the main goal is to "be the best." Now, that's not a bad thing, and it's good in many ways, as it fosters improvement, but it also diverts the community into a specific set of popular games, because being the best at a game with an incredibly small audience isn't a particularly enticing prospect. I feel like, therefore, it kind of shepherds people into games they're not as interested in, and also means that any fighting game that isn't picked up by a lot of players is immediately relegated to the dustbin of history.

It's a shame, really, there are a lot of games that are legitimately good that just aren't played, especially from the Neo-Geo era. People look back on the games from that time as "SF2 wannabes" but there's a lot of mechanically solid and very fun games hidden in the depths of those libraries.
There doesn't seem to be much of an area in the community interested in exploring the many works of the genre at a deeper level, which is kind of disappointing.
 
E

Emperor Bohe

Member
Seyavesh said:
two main ones:
it causes massive input lag on the other player's controllers alongside other weirdness- it'll actually add ghost inputs if it's an older model
the hardware draws a ton of power from console, prone to frying xboxes or usb ports for that reason

i can confirm both are true too b/c i've had to deal with it in multiple tournaments both as someone helping run that shit and a competitor
Click to expand...

Do u know if TitanOne has the same issues?
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
GooeyHeat said:
I've been thinking about this for a bit recently.

Sometimes I think the US fighting game community is a bit too... focused for my tastes? The scene seems very... determined, in a competitive way, that the main goal is to "be the best." Now, that's not a bad thing, and it's good in many ways, as it fosters improvement, but it also diverts the community into a specific set of popular games, because being the best at a game with an incredibly small audience isn't a particularly enticing prospect. I feel like, therefore, it kind of shepherds people into games they're not as interested in, and also means that any fighting game that isn't picked up by a lot of players is immediately relegated to the dustbin of history.

It's a shame, really, there are a lot of games that are legitimately good that just aren't played, especially from the Neo-Geo era. People look back on the games from that time as "SF2 wannabes" but there's a lot of mechanically solid and very fun games hidden in the depths of those libraries.
There doesn't seem to be much of an area in the community interested in exploring the many works of the genre at a deeper level, which is kind of disappointing.
Click to expand...
I think the problem is that the NEOGEO games you're talking about are just old. Even 3S doesn't have a remarkable competitive scene in the west despite being well regarded. There are dedicated scenes for just about every fighter out there, but the older those games are, the smaller the scenes.
 
A

alstein

Member
GooeyHeat said:
I've been thinking about this for a bit recently.

Sometimes I think the US fighting game community is a bit too... focused for my tastes? The scene seems very... determined, in a competitive way, that the main goal is to "be the best." Now, that's not a bad thing, and it's good in many ways, as it fosters improvement, but it also diverts the community into a specific set of popular games, because being the best at a game with an incredibly small audience isn't a particularly enticing prospect. I feel like, therefore, it kind of shepherds people into games they're not as interested in, and also means that any fighting game that isn't picked up by a lot of players is immediately relegated to the dustbin of history.

It's a shame, really, there are a lot of games that are legitimately good that just aren't played, especially from the Neo-Geo era. People look back on the games from that time as "SF2 wannabes" but there's a lot of mechanically solid and very fun games hidden in the depths of those libraries.
There doesn't seem to be much of an area in the community interested in exploring the many works of the genre at a deeper level, which is kind of disappointing.
Click to expand...

Well, when you have no or meh online play, you have to play what others play- or you don't get to play.

I love the oldschool UM games for example, I almost never get to play them, so I put more of a focus on SF4 because I can play that. (If VF5 was on Steam, I'd be the same way about that)

I do have other stuff a chance, but it really has to impress me. I gave Yata a chance, I didn't care for it (and it's not like the netcode is better than the UM games either right now)

To be honest, the only Neo-Geo era games that hold up today are SamSho2 and Special, KOF98 and 02UM, FFSP, and RB1 and RB2 (not Special). The old MVS fighters- a lot of them weren't that good, and that includes a lot of the oldschool KOFs.


SolarPowered said:
The best thing about the last generation's fighting games was the inclusion of online modes in the vast majority of fighters. I hope the defining trait of 8th generation releases is crossplay between consoles and PC. It would help grow the online audience big time and improve the level of competition for online fighting in general. Oh, all fighters also need rollback netcode, but ASW probably couldn't be paid to use it, so I'll settle for multi-fight lobbies for all fighters.
Click to expand...

One reason I couldn't be paid to play Arcsys games. We need modern standards - and the American FGC has to be willing to tell the NRSs and Arcsys's of the world that it isn't good enough. I'd love to see EVO make SF4-level netcode the bare minimum for a game to be in EVO.
 
G

GooeyHeat

Member
oneida said:
I think the problem is that the NEOGEO games you're talking about are just old. Even 3S doesn't have a remarkable competitive scene in the west despite being well regarded. There are dedicated scenes for just about every fighter out there, but the older those games are, the smaller the scenes.
Click to expand...
Certainly true.
Sometimes I think about somebody setting up, say, a regular event where a small tournament for a random old-ass game is set up. The unique thing would be that the game would be announced some time in advance and resources about it would be shared, encouraging people to practice and get to know the games. I think it's a bit different from, say, a modern-day MvC2 or 3S event, since in the case of most of these obscure games almost all of the players would be going in with similar levels of knowledge and practice.

Obviously it's a pipe dream, and it makes much more sense for people to stick with practicing what they know and have competition for, but it sounds like it would be a nice thing for a small group to be involved in regularly, almost like a little club.

I fully admit that half the reason I'm interested in this kind of thing is because I want people to play Fighting Vipers 2 with.
 
G

GooeyHeat

Member
alstein said:
To be honest, the only Neo-Geo era games that hold up today are SamSho2 and Special, KOF98 and 02UM, FFSP, and RB1 and RB2 (not Special). The old MVS fighters- a lot of them weren't that good, and that includes a lot of the oldschool KOFs.
Click to expand...
I disagree greatly on that point. There are games made by various studios from that time period that are tons of fun, if a tad unbalanced and silly (extremely high damaging combos, etc.) Many of the old fighters that are thought of as jokes are actually pretty solid, such as Breakers Revenge, Fighters History Dynamite, The Last Blade 2, hell even Jackie Chan in Fists of Fire, a game with digitized actors and three different Jackie Chans, has some pretty crisp movement that make for a really interesting neutral game.
And even games that are "bad" because of balance reasons or high damage, well, we still play UMvC3 don't we? :V

It's obvious that people play what others will play, I just feel that leaving the past behind without a thought is kind of a disservice. It would probably not really be a subset of the main FGC, though, more of a group of people who would play almost like curators.
 
P

petghost

Banned
If you wanna play breakers revenge or whatever im sure there are people playing it on fightcade. That's the beauty of that thing.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
UltraClarity said:
Yeah, Problem X secures a spot in CPT with his 2nd place finish.

I'm going to laugh when both Ryan Hart and Valmaster are gated out of CPT because they didn't bother going to ranking events.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised Asian players don't travel out to those. Yeah you might not win,but you probably have a better chance at finishing in the top 4 when 3 of the 4 best European players don't show up.

I still think around 120 points will be the minimum to get in CPT. A lot of events take place in the same weekend which prevents a lot of gatekeeping. I'm curious to see what Sako does. He could go to Brazil or Costa Rica or something to get himself in.
 
G

GooeyHeat

Member
petghost said:
If you wanna play breakers revenge or whatever im sure there are people playing it on fightcade. That's the beauty of that thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Fightcade is totally great. I just think we could use a way to introduce a smorgasbord of obscure games to people who play fighters and have an open mind but wouldn't have heard of them without actively searching for them.

oneida said:
Fighting Vipers 2 is a secret
Click to expand...
Yeah, secret best 3D fighter ever. B)
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
GooeyHeat said:
Sometimes I think the US fighting game community is a bit too... focused for my tastes? The scene seems very... determined, in a competitive way, that the main goal is to "be the best."
Click to expand...
Sounds like it's your problem. That you want to play whatever game in a competitive setting rather than just play the game.
 
A

Amedo310

Member
GooeyHeat said:
I disagree greatly on that point. There are games made by various studios from that time period that are tons of fun, if a tad unbalanced and silly (extremely high damaging combos, etc.) Many of the old fighters that are thought of as jokes are actually pretty solid, such as Breakers Revenge, Fighters History Dynamite, The Last Blade 2, hell even Jackie Chan in Fists of Fire, a game with digitized actors and three different Jackie Chans, has some pretty crisp movement that make for a really interesting neutral game.
And even games that are "bad" because of balance reasons or high damage, well, we still play UMvC3 don't we? :V

It's obvious that people play what others will play, I just feel that leaving the past behind without a thought is kind of a disservice. It would probably not really be a subset of the main FGC, though, more of a group of people who would play almost like curators.
Click to expand...

I do this with several friends every Thursday. Played many games like TMNT tournament fighter, Fighting Layers, Final Fight Revenge, and Streets of Rage Remake.
 
K

kirblar

Member
A bunch of people who only meet in person to conduct tournaments are hyper-competitive?

SHOCKING NEWS.

If you want casual play, PSN is right there.
 
V

vocab

Member
Dahbomb said:
You know how EG won TI5?

They picked top tiers.

USA top players need to get their shit together for SFV. None of this unique snowflake bull shit. Kbrad was on point in the latest Excellent Adventures... he was like "I thought you guys were smart... can't you tell these characters are just better than others?"
Click to expand...

AA was a tier 4 pick going into TI5 though (50% win rate up until now). Hell they won a game with clinkz before GF.
 
P

Perro

Member
Had a session of Ultra and lag is still awful for me. The worst thing is that people only play ranked and no endless. Probably gonna pick up Skullgirls again just so I can play endless matches with no problems.
 
A

alstein

Member
Busaiku said:
But ArcSys netcode is much better than that.
Click to expand...

My issue with Arcsys is the scummy releases, not their netcode, which is adequate (but not good).

GooeyHeat said:
I disagree greatly on that point. There are games made by various studios from that time period that are tons of fun, if a tad unbalanced and silly (extremely high damaging combos, etc.) Many of the old fighters that are thought of as jokes are actually pretty solid, such as Breakers Revenge, Fighters History Dynamite, The Last Blade 2, hell even Jackie Chan in Fists of Fire, a game with digitized actors and three different Jackie Chans, has some pretty crisp movement that make for a really interesting neutral game.
And even games that are "bad" because of balance reasons or high damage, well, we still play UMvC3 don't we? :V

It's obvious that people play what others will play, I just feel that leaving the past behind without a thought is kind of a disservice. It would probably not really be a subset of the main FGC, though, more of a group of people who would play almost like curators.
Click to expand...


FHD was good for its time, doesn't hold up well IMO
LB2 was crap. Just look at the banlist for the game.

JCFoF- can't say on that

As for Marvel 3, I agree it's crap also. I do agree leaving the past behind is a disservice, there are some great old games. Just gotta not have rose-colored glasses and realize much of it was not so great as well. I remember the good old days, and the bad old days.
 
E

ElTopo

Banned
Rising Thunder is kinda' decent. It's better than everything else that's on PC right now but that's not really saying very much (IMHO, and yes, I fucking HATE the SF 4 series with a passion and already pre-ordered SF 5).

Number one thing I hate about it is the separate bar for FADC/Breakers. There's no downside whatsoever to abusing this bar. It's not like you lose part of your super like in MK or SF 4. All it leads to is just taking risks because you can just Breaker or just SRK on wakeup and FADC backwards to safety. Worse yet, you cannot see the opponents Kinetic bar in order to predict it and bait it out.

I hope this one particular mechanic is refined.
 
R

Rice-Eater

Member
UltraClarity said:
I'm going to laugh when both Ryan Hart and Valmaster are gated out of CPT because they didn't bother going to ranking events.
Click to expand...

Well their are 3 more European ranking events so I think they'll be fine. But I have this weird feeling that no matter where they go, Luffy will be there and they'll have to go through him to win it. The next two are in the same weekend so even if Ryan stays in the UK for the local tournament while Val goes to Norway Luffy will still find a way to be at both events.
 
A

alstein

Member
ElTopo said:
Rising Thunder is kinda' decent. It's better than everything else that's on PC right now but that's not really saying very much (IMHO, and yes, I fucking HATE the SF 4 series with a passion and already pre-ordered SF 5).

Number one thing I hate about it is the separate bar for FADC/Breakers. There's no downside whatsoever to abusing this bar. It's not like you lose part of your super like in MK or SF 4. All it leads to is just taking risks because you can just Breaker or just SRK on wakeup and FADC backwards to safety. Worse yet, you cannot see the opponents Kinetic bar in order to predict it and bait it out.

I hope this one particular mechanic is refined.
Click to expand...

I'd argue this bar is better than the burst bar, because the burst bar can be baited.
 
K

Krackatoa

Member
ElTopo said:
Number one thing I hate about it is the separate bar for FADC/Breakers. There's no downside whatsoever to abusing this bar. It's not like you lose part of your super like in MK or SF 4. All it leads to is just taking risks because you can just Breaker or just SRK on wakeup and FADC backwards to safety. Worse yet, you cannot see the opponents Kinetic bar in order to predict it and bait it out.

I hope this one particular mechanic is refined.
Click to expand...

Your gripes are pretty universal amongst players. While I don't think the bars necessarily need to be compiled into one, Breaker and FADC options need to be retooled a bit. I'd like to see FADC made less safe on block if they dash forward (Don't really mind it if they backdash, since they can't combo).
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
Got to play some TvC last night at a local. Had a pretty fun win where at 2 seconds I was running from a Tekkaman Blade as Jun the Swan and then managed to detonate her bomb on him before he could reach me. Such a dick win lol XD
Could not get past this one Alex/Tekkaman team though. Dat damage and health too stronk. Couldn't jump in on Alex due to Tekkaman lariat assist grabbing me, and tried snap backs. Best I managed was to use Batsu/Jun instead of Polimar/Karas. Just too much trouble getting in on them with Polimar and Karas was too frail for that damage (fuck the health nerf he had for UAS. It was unnecessary with all the other changes).
 
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