toddhunter
Member
I think that is a fair call.
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Fighting Games Weekly | Aug 4-10 | IT DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY REASON
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I think that is a fair call.
Get on then Kirby.
When SNKP say next KoF will be more like 98? Looking forward to 50% on 3 hit combos.
I think GGXXAC had combo length right in a combo centric style fighter. Anything longer than it I dislike. It's fun playing against people, not so much when you hit and then go into something you memorized for over 4-5 seconds. I'd like something with good walkspeed and single hits do a good amount of damage (think SSF2T or SamSho). Getting hit by 3 heavy attacks and you're at 50% life mmm.
Understand that those type of fighters were in style and some players do prefer that type of game and enjoy the executing a combo they practiced. I do like the options and variety among fighting game, just that we got a lot of the combo heavy fighters and not much else.
I think GGXXAC had combo length right in a combo centric style fighter. Anything longer than it I dislike. It's fun playing against people, not so much when you hit and then go into something you memorized for over 4-5 seconds. I'd like something with good walkspeed and single hits do a good amount of damage (think SSF2T or SamSho). Getting hit by 3 heavy attacks and you're at 50% life mmm.
Understand that those type of fighters were in style and some players do prefer that type of game and enjoy the executing a combo they practiced. I do like the options and variety among fighting game, just that we got a lot of the combo heavy fighters and not much else.
No one actually likes Marvel for the long combos. Sure the swag combos are nice here and there but when that's taking a majority of a match's time then that's not a good look. It's really the same thing every time... new swag/long combos gets discovered, people get hyped then people get tired when that combo is used too much. Every single long combo that you have seen in Marvel right now used to be hype at once (yes even Lightning Loops, when Marn did that at EVO in Vanilla people got hyped).
People like Marvel for the huge character roster, the team synergy/strategy aspect, the fast paced game play, the flashy aesthetics and the fact that you actually feel like you are playing a super powered character.
Now as far as why Marvel has some of its long combos it's pretty obvious why from a design stand point which is what Annelfrank touched upon.
Why do OTGs exist? So that characters can actually finish a combo with their ground hyper after doing an aerial combo. In MVC2 characters who had air supers (or big damage in the air like Sentinel) had a ton of advantage as you couldn't really do much after an aerial rave in that game. Having OTGs is a balance addition although they did sort of mess up giving some characters very generous OTGs options (Doom/Dante) while giving other characters poor or no OTG options (Hsien Ko).
Why do assist combos exist? Most characters in MVC3 actually do not have that long of a combo solo but with assists the combos get longer. You can actually use two assists in a combo in MVC3 which really adds to the damage but really the reason why you have assist plus combos is because that is what the whole game is about... it's about team synergy and developing teams with these combo options in mind. Assists general fill up holes in characters combo options like for example OTG assists or bounce assists.
Why do wall/ground bounce exist? Aerial ground bounces are absolutely essential to many of the ground characters. The big advantage that flying characters have over ground characters is that if they hit you from the skies air to air they get full damage (like Magneto, Iron Man, Zero etc) where as a character like Hulk would get absolutely nothing if they didn't have that aerial ground bounce. This is yet another balancing choice made into the game. Wall bounces are necessary for some characters for corner carry like Wesker who needs it to bring characters to the corner to start his reset game (which unfortunately the game isn't based around due to the high damage so wall bounce is really just a combo extender in this game rather than being a reset tool).
Why do TACs exist? Capcom explained it themselves that they purposely designed the game with some characters having really low base damage (Firebrand, Rocket Raccoon, Viewtiful Joe etc) and some with really high base damage (Hulk) so that the low but faster characters could TAC into the slower but higher damage characters. It was supposed to be another layer added to the whole team dynamic. It's not a terrible idea in theory but the execution is probably one of the biggest fuck ups in recent fighting game history. Not to mention that TACs don't make much sense any more given the high damage nature of the game when a supposed low base damage character like Zero is doing obscene damage.
Why do DHCs exist? Again this is yet another team dynamic that the game offers and it actually offers a ton of possibilities particularly in MVC3 with stuff like install supers. The real problem in relation to MVC3 is that they needlessly buffed hyper damage across the board when they added the mashing mechanic. The hyper damage in Vanilla MVC3 was mostly fine but now it's just obscene when characters like Wolverine and Storm do so much damage at the end of a combo.
Why does X factor and X factor combos exist? For better or for worse, X Factor gives MVC3 its flavor. Like that other guy said "give me that juicy X factor" all day long! X factor is just an insanely robust tool in the game and of course it has combo applications as well. X factor combos exist to make up for the fact that when you are low on characters (like down one or two characters) you can still do big damage and big combo extensions for meter gain to make up for the fact that you don't have DHCs, TACs and assists. The values are obscene in XF of course but XF in general is fine (or at the very least not at the top of the list in terms of problems with the game).
People like Marvel for the huge character roster, the team synergy/strategy aspect, the fast paced game play, the flashy aesthetics and the fact that you actually feel like you are playing a super powered character.
Now as far as why Marvel has some of its long combos it's pretty obvious why from a design stand point which is what Annelfrank touched upon.
Why do OTGs exist? So that characters can actually finish a combo with their ground hyper after doing an aerial combo. In MVC2 characters who had air supers (or big damage in the air like Sentinel) had a ton of advantage as you couldn't really do much after an aerial rave in that game. Having OTGs is a balance addition although they did sort of mess up giving some characters very generous OTGs options (Doom/Dante) while giving other characters poor or no OTG options (Hsien Ko).
Why do assist combos exist? Most characters in MVC3 actually do not have that long of a combo solo but with assists the combos get longer. You can actually use two assists in a combo in MVC3 which really adds to the damage but really the reason why you have assist plus combos is because that is what the whole game is about... it's about team synergy and developing teams with these combo options in mind. Assists general fill up holes in characters combo options like for example OTG assists or bounce assists.
Why do wall/ground bounce exist? Aerial ground bounces are absolutely essential to many of the ground characters. The big advantage that flying characters have over ground characters is that if they hit you from the skies air to air they get full damage (like Magneto, Iron Man, Zero etc) where as a character like Hulk would get absolutely nothing if they didn't have that aerial ground bounce. This is yet another balancing choice made into the game. Wall bounces are necessary for some characters for corner carry like Wesker who needs it to bring characters to the corner to start his reset game (which unfortunately the game isn't based around due to the high damage so wall bounce is really just a combo extender in this game rather than being a reset tool).
Why do TACs exist? Capcom explained it themselves that they purposely designed the game with some characters having really low base damage (Firebrand, Rocket Raccoon, Viewtiful Joe etc) and some with really high base damage (Hulk) so that the low but faster characters could TAC into the slower but higher damage characters. It was supposed to be another layer added to the whole team dynamic. It's not a terrible idea in theory but the execution is probably one of the biggest fuck ups in recent fighting game history. Not to mention that TACs don't make much sense any more given the high damage nature of the game when a supposed low base damage character like Zero is doing obscene damage.
Why do DHCs exist? Again this is yet another team dynamic that the game offers and it actually offers a ton of possibilities particularly in MVC3 with stuff like install supers. The real problem in relation to MVC3 is that they needlessly buffed hyper damage across the board when they added the mashing mechanic. The hyper damage in Vanilla MVC3 was mostly fine but now it's just obscene when characters like Wolverine and Storm do so much damage at the end of a combo.
Why does X factor and X factor combos exist? For better or for worse, X Factor gives MVC3 its flavor. Like that other guy said "give me that juicy X factor" all day long! X factor is just an insanely robust tool in the game and of course it has combo applications as well. X factor combos exist to make up for the fact that when you are low on characters (like down one or two characters) you can still do big damage and big combo extensions for meter gain to make up for the fact that you don't have DHCs, TACs and assists. The values are obscene in XF of course but XF in general is fine (or at the very least not at the top of the list in terms of problems with the game).
Sure in a sec, add me on steam
Flying High
Member
Pick Haggar
I prefer longer combos. However, there is no appeal whatsoever in looping opponents in an endless chain. That is the most boring thing ever. Unless it's done for the lolz one or two times (read Degen getting Kazuya infinite in SFXTK).
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I just saw this and instantly thought of the Anime FGC
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Pick thor. He has the best grab because his command grab doesn't have the camera zoom in like every other throw in the game, so it doesn't look like you're getting thrown then AH SHIT, hammer on your chest. Lightning too.
I think different combo lengths are appropriate for different kinds of games. For the most part, I think most games get it right, except Marvel is a wee bit too long because of ToDs. Has little bearing on how much I like a fighting game, though I generally prefer games that promote combo creativity like Marvel.
Actually turns out I can't, have to run out for a bit.
a big thing to consider re: combo length is also payoff
this is a key difference between say like vanilla sfxt, vanilla skullgirls and marvel 3
they all roughly have similarly unbearable combo lengths but the difference is that in marvel 3 you pretty much know you are 90% guaranteed to be dead as fuck when you get hit, meaning you can more or less start thinking about the next step in what you're going to do rather than trying to scope out the wakeup or reset situation
edit: this makes them a lot more bearable because they're less frustrating in terms of focus+mental taxation. it's like a cooldown period with minimal attention (as TACs tend to be in predictable points most of the time) inbetween the high focus neutral
and yes loops are basically the worst when it comes to long combos because visually they are extremely uninteresting. if you combo lasts more than 3 loops then it is very likely really fucking boring to watch.
there's a lot of design considerations when thinking about combos because obviously they're made out of the individual moves that also are used in the neutral game so you have to look at it from that view that dahbomb posted.
this is a key difference between say like vanilla sfxt, vanilla skullgirls and marvel 3
they all roughly have similarly unbearable combo lengths but the difference is that in marvel 3 you pretty much know you are 90% guaranteed to be dead as fuck when you get hit, meaning you can more or less start thinking about the next step in what you're going to do rather than trying to scope out the wakeup or reset situation
edit: this makes them a lot more bearable because they're less frustrating in terms of focus+mental taxation. it's like a cooldown period with minimal attention (as TACs tend to be in predictable points most of the time) inbetween the high focus neutral
and yes loops are basically the worst when it comes to long combos because visually they are extremely uninteresting. if you combo lasts more than 3 loops then it is very likely really fucking boring to watch.
there's a lot of design considerations when thinking about combos because obviously they're made out of the individual moves that also are used in the neutral game so you have to look at it from that view that dahbomb posted.
Flying High
Member
I like ST which is mostly footsies but I don't want that to be the only style of fighter. If someone makes a mistake i want to punish with more than normal xx special or super, and I want hit confirms to be more than normal, normal xx special or super. And I want more options than a generic combo extender which results in the same ender every time. I think developers are aware of all this, which is why we are where we are now.
New StrongStyle remix of TTT2 intro is so dope.
This is my opinion on it. I want punishes to be lasting and effective instead of two quick hits and you're done. But I also don't need it going overboard with infinites and loops.
This is my opinion on it. I want punishes to be lasting and effective instead of two quick hits and you're done. But I also don't need it going overboard with infinites and loops.
Professor Beef
Banned
Don't play it anymore
because you can blame the matchup? whatever floats your boat I guess
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Nope. Fuck that life.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It's certainly kept Threi cheerful.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I only play low tier characters if they are a character I mesh well with. Enjoying the character is the most important thing
the fuck did i just watch....
He could have just said winning with a low tier character is more satisfying that with an OP character.
In UMvC3, Trish is probably B tier or something but I'll take her over any other character. Waaaaay too fun to play and wins are overly satisfying. Especially when vanilla Wesker and general Zero bullshit doesn't work against her.
Or just play a fighting game where tiers aren't as relevant.
In UMvC3, Trish is probably B tier or something but I'll take her over any other character. Waaaaay too fun to play and wins are overly satisfying. Especially when vanilla Wesker and general Zero bullshit doesn't work against her.
Or just play a fighting game where tiers aren't as relevant.
No point in playing if you're not having fun.
Stabby McSter
Member
is fgc gaf still about dat anime life 
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
is fgc gaf still about dat anime life
I enjoy anime, manga, and air dashers. Hell I even used to go to cons and stuff when I could get around easier. But you wouldn't see me caught dead doing any of the embarrassing ass shit you see people do.
With Persona and Xrd coming out this year, and BBCP2.0 next year, you are going to have to deal with anime for quite a while. Besides how did you survive all the Marvel talk if you hate Anime
No because its more fun playing shit characters. For me anyhow. I don't play to win much.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Man.... the first time I went to a Arcana Heart tournament, I knew I made a huge fucking mistake.
I enjoy anime, manga, and air dashers. Hell I even used to go to cons and stuff when I could get around easier. But you wouldn't see me caught dead doing any of the embarrassing ass shit you see people do.
With Persona and Xrd coming out this year, and BBCP2.0 next year, you are going to have to deal with anime for quite a while. Besides how did you survive all the Marvel talk if you hate Anime
Yeah, that shit is some stuff. It's not too bad until you put a camera up and then a couple people decide to be fools.
Also Wong is streaming himself trying out UNiEL netplay. That's neato.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
OMG this shit is hilarious
I would typically think most low-tier characters are not fun to play because one of the biggest reasons they're low tier is because they don't have many options, which just sucks to play with.
To be fair, this happens with nearly any community. You can find videos of plenty of dumb people in any crowd on camera... it's just that they're usually not holding hugpillows.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Well let's not forget how horrible the commentary can be at times as well
I enjoy anime, manga, and air dashers. Hell I even used to go to cons and stuff when I could get around easier. But you wouldn't see me caught dead doing any of the embarrassing ass shit you see people do.
With Persona and Xrd coming out this year, and BBCP2.0 next year, you are going to have to deal with anime for quite a while. Besides how did you survive all the Marvel talk if you hate Anime
AH3 Love Max!!! and DFC, too.
He ran into Grover a couple times, he was unprepared for UNiEL pressure lol he'll figure it out.
This is true, just the near naked 12 year old cartoon girls are pretty off putting to a lot of people.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I really wish Skullgirls had backed off of that fanservice in the initial designs. Felt like they limited themselves for no good reason.
nsfw? when in doubt, link it out I guess
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd....664_805099532856385_5185734238338483831_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd....664_805099532856385_5185734238338483831_n.jpg
Fanservice is what sustains all fighting games everywhere. Look in your heart and you know it be true.
Since when does Mike Ross play BlazBlue.
theprodigy
Member
because of the terrible online lag or because of the lack of combos outside of, ironically enough, repetitive tilt locks/chaingrabs
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
LOL that's not why