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Fighting Games Weekly | Aug 4-10 | IT DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY REASON

H

Holy Order Sol

Member
Anti-airs are already plenty good in XIII. They're just way better when you read the hop rather than attempt to react to things.

Also, cr.B counts.

alstein said:
SNK has hinted the next one will play more like 98- so real man's KOF and not anime game KOF.
Click to expand...

...

Exaggerating everything combo-related as usual.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
alstein said:
SNK has hinted the next one will play more like 98- so real man's KOF and not anime game KOF.

The combo fetish thing seems to be declining in Japan- probably due to oversaturation/boredom. That said, even VF fell prey to the overcomboing this gen.
Click to expand...
Man, you really don't like combos lol. I guess I can see why you'd prefer the reset game. You were breaking my throws all day today.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Long combos are awful. Fighting games are best when both players are active. I think the only modern game with reasonable combo lengths is SFIV.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
Karsticles said:
Long combos are awful. Fighting games are best when both players are active. I think the only modern game with reasonable combo lengths is SFIV.
Click to expand...
SCV and VF have shorter combos discounting Viola I guess. even wall combos in 5FS are done in 4 sec tops.
 
P

petghost

Banned
yeah i agree that games with super long combos are probably way too common atm. the most interesting part of FG's for me is the neutral game. UNIB and BB reduced combo time and low and behold there was an interesting neutral game and pace to the matches underneath all that stuff! i certainly do appreciate people doing technically challenging things and all that though...
 
D

Dlent

Member
Karsticles said:
Long combos are awful. Fighting games are best when both players are active. I think the only modern game with reasonable combo lengths is SFIV.
Click to expand...

Soul Calibur 5 and Virtua Fighter 5 seemed reasonable about it, even if they had it worse than previous iterations. Also, why do you play Marvel 3 then(and Firebrand, no less)?
 
A

Anne

Member
I think some people forget why longer combos exist in certain games :T most modern games are getting it right at this point.
 
D

Dlent

Member
AnneIFrank said:
I think some people forget why longer combos exist in certain games :T most modern games are getting it right at this point.
Click to expand...

I imagine you mean it was an effort to balance the games; for example Yun having easy conversions to massive damage long combos was one of the reasons he was god tier in 3rd strike.
 
A

Anne

Member
A lot of long combos exist because they want characters to have certain options at certain points, and they want people to use those to create confirms and combos for different uses. Like in ASW games, a lot of the different combos result from starter, position on screen, to just how they got hit, sometimes to what kind of position you want the opponent to be in. You give characters different combo options yeah they'll get longer but you get more interesting combos and rewards. As long as it's not absurd like UNiB or BB pre-CP(Hell I think HD combos are terribly absurd) it's actually pretty cool to see how all the pieces come together and can be interesting.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
I remember the time Marlinpie did S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S A B S instead of S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S A S

Was hype.
 
N

NGKrush

Neo Member
AnneIFrank said:
A lot of long combos exist because they want characters to have certain options at certain points, and they want people to use those to create confirms and combos for different uses. Like in ASW games, a lot of the different combos result from starter, position on screen, to just how they got hit, sometimes to what kind of position you want the opponent to be in. You give characters different combo options yeah they'll get longer but you get more interesting combos and rewards. As long as it's not absurd like UNiB or BB pre-CP(Hell I think HD combos are terribly absurd) it's actually pretty cool to see how all the pieces come together and can be interesting.
Click to expand...

until people actually use combo's for more than just highest damage reward (which over 90% do), it might actually be an interesting thing.
Only game I can think about that does this is tekken using spikes to force an oki game. Marvel maybe?
 
A

Anne

Member
NGKrush said:
until people actually use combo's for more than just highest damage reward (which over 90% do), it might actually be an interesting thing.
Only game I can think about that does this is tekken using spikes to force an oki game. Marvel maybe?
Click to expand...

Idk, I use different routes in all the games I play depending on what I want, and I see a lot of other people doing it too.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
I think a lot of the disdain for long combos is because of how much (and for how long) they disengage one of the players. OK, someone gets an opening, why should that mean I have to watch you play Beatmania for the next 30 seconds? It's boring for one of the players involved. I mean, I get irritated watching Linne combos in UNIEL -- and those got cut down by 80-90% compared to the previous version!

(Yes, I understand that 30 seconds is an exaggeration... in most instances. It can get that long (or longer) in the most extreme cases, though.)
 
T

Thores

Member
AnneIFrank said:
A lot of long combos exist because they want characters to have certain options at certain points, and they want people to use those to create confirms and combos for different uses. Like in ASW games, a lot of the different combos result from starter, position on screen, to just how they got hit, sometimes to what kind of position you want the opponent to be in. You give characters different combo options yeah they'll get longer but you get more interesting combos and rewards. As long as it's not absurd like UNiB or BB pre-CP(Hell I think HD combos are terribly absurd) it's actually pretty cool to see how all the pieces come together and can be interesting.
Click to expand...

It's not like options only exist when a combo is 15+ seconds long. I feel like there's probably a compromise that both provides that element and doesn't leave one player inactive for extended periods of time and add an execution barrier to high level play.
 
V

vocab

Member
Combo length doesnt bother me if the game is fun, intuitive, and interesting.

Something many fighting games can't even get right.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dlent said:
Soul Calibur 5 and Virtua Fighter 5 seemed reasonable about it, even if they had it worse than previous iterations. Also, why do you play Marvel 3 then(and Firebrand, no less)?
Click to expand...
I play Marvel because I adore the strategic offerings of team building. I play Firebrand because I love his aesthetics, and there is a considerable amount of unique tech that I have created for my team with him. It feels good to play something you developed. Also, he is the only point character that I like the look of. If I could run Dormammu/Morrigan/Phoenix in this meta, I would do so in a heartbeat. Right now I use it to improve my Dormammu play against people far below my play level.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
I'm mixed on combo length. Generally they should be on the short side, but how short depends on what type of game it is.

I do like long combos to exist if they're super hard to do and aren't BnBs (some Vampire Savior stuff).

Although long combos are fun in crazy unbalanced games.
 
F

fader

Member
alstein said:
SNK has hinted the next one will play more like 98- so real man's KOF and not anime game KOF.
Click to expand...
NH0zEjj.gif


alstein said:
The combo fetish thing seems to be declining in Japan- probably due to oversaturation/boredom. That said, even VF fell prey to the overcomboing this gen.
Click to expand...

oh god finally, i hated this movie-combo phase fighting games where going to.
 
A

Anne

Member
Thores said:
It's not like options only exist when a combo is 15+ seconds long. I feel like there's probably a compromise that both provides that element and doesn't leave one player inactive for extended periods of time and add an execution barrier to high level play.
Click to expand...

I don't really end up in combos past 10 seconds unless something crazy happens in SF4. Idk, I feel like most modern games have reasonable combo lengths that work with the design in a way that's interesting. Most.
 
A

alstein

Member
I think the reason so many folks are sore over combos is because nearly every game keeps pushing the envelope more and more, until you get ridiculousness.

There are tons of games that appeal to the folks who like 10-20 second combos, but few to the folks who prefer a more reset-heavy shorter combo game. Then you have Skullgirls which does both at once.

Personally, my ideal combo length is ST/HDR, KOF98 or SamSho games.
 
S

Sayad

Member
alstein said:
SNK has hinted the next one will play more like 98- so real man's KOF and not anime game KOF.

The combo fetish thing seems to be declining in Japan- probably due to oversaturation/boredom. That said, even VF fell prey to the overcomboing this gen.
Click to expand...
When did this happen?
 
F

fader

Member
alstein said:
I think the reason so many folks are sore over combos is because nearly every game keeps pushing the envelope more and more, until you get ridiculousness.

There are tons of games that appeal to the folks who like 10-20 second combos, but few to the folks who prefer a more reset-heavy shorter combo game. Then you have Skullgirls which does both at once.

Personally, my ideal combo length is ST/HDR, KOF98 or SamSho games.
Click to expand...

GG did fine with their long combos too with the deterioration.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
This discussion is kinda vague

Like what are some specific examples of excessive combo length to you guys?

People keep saying 10 or 15 or 30 second combos and im sitting here wondering what games are you playing
 
D

Dlent

Member
Retro_ said:
This discussion is kinda vague

Like what are some specific examples of excessive combo length to you guys?
Click to expand...

Infinites. I don't actually have a problem with ten to fifteen second combos so long as they take some kind non-spammable resource.
 
A

alstein

Member
Sayad said:
When did this happen?
Click to expand...

I kinda remember them mentioning something along the lines of "back to basics". Then again, the last time they said that , we got KOFXII. We'll have to wait and see- often devs say this , then combo creep infects design, and players are always more creative than the devs when it comes to these things.


As for the games that are the worst offenders: (only counting games that have been a main game at EVO)
Marvel of course- but that's a game for folks who like that, so I don't have a problem with it, I just refuse to play it
Blazblue- especially older versions.
KOFXIII- where most of the top tier had long loops even without HD.

I don't think it's really the combo length that annoys me, it's the looping.

Tekken in my eyes did long combos right for the most part. Bound has its drawbacks (excessive wall carry) but is really good otherwise.
I think Persona/GG mostly got it right, the problem is , getting it wrong even once can make it annoying (and often leads to balance issues)
 
B

BGMNTS

Member
oneida said:
end of story. I can choose to sacrifice damage in favor of more oki or to take more drinks from shun and I don't need to burn half the round to do it.

losing rules!
Click to expand...

Losing with a shit character is more fun than winning with an OP character. That's basic.
 
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