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People should buy Skrullgirls on steam in the mean time. I mean damn it's half the price of ASW character DLC. It's hard to beat that.
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Fighting Games Weekly | June 1-7 | QAisTopTier
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
well with the way ms is dropping the price of the x1 i might be able to snatch one for 50 bucks by the time mvc4 comes out.
I see what you did there.
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You know what I'm gonna do if I ever get to commission art? I'm totally gonna ask Alex to give me a group shot of the cast as Skrulls. I'm gonna do it because I don't think I've ever seen someone actually come through on the meme.
shaowebb
Member
Meh. It did alright for TvC IMO. And bursts work fine in BB from what I saw as well though cancels, megacrash blowback functions and such were done via other systems in that game. Granted my example was hamfisted, but I feel something to mitigate the "i've seen this movie before" factor of overly long and repetitive combos is needed. However, they go about it is fine by me.
In any event, scrub Xfactor and TAC. They're bad. Keep some form of cancel though because that aspect of Baroque was the only good thing on Xfactor I saw worth keeping. I liked it sacking red health for the cancel in TvC plus even though it also added a damage boost in TvC based on the red health used it still had the risk/reward essence that if you dropped the soap it ended then and there and your red health was gone. You got only what you earned from it.
God I love baroque.
KidA Seven
Member
I wonder if the US 3rd Strike players realize that Kuroda is going to EVO this year?
edit: Well he's trying. The new article says he's job hunting in order to go to EVO.
edit: Well he's trying. The new article says he's job hunting in order to go to EVO.
shaowebb
Member
In b4 Eventhubs picks this up...
I would honestly find it weird if they were to change up the formula. The past Marvel versus games all have something in common and to change that up for 4 would scare me.
shaowebb
Member
They changed it up for 3 with Xfactor and TAC and putting launchers on a button and taking it from 2 punch 2 kick 2 assist to L M H Launcher
I still maintain that something like Capcom All-Stars makes more sense and is easier to do with less legal headaches than MvC4 for Capcom
Really? You think a MvC4 would be a better seller than SFV? I don't think that's true in the States let alone Worldwide.
Aren't Skrulls master shape-shifters? How wold they look different?
Really? You think a MvC4 would be a better seller than SFV? I don't think that's true in the States let alone Worldwide.
Aren't Skrulls master shape-shifters? How wold they look different?
You should've known better lol
.la1n
Member
Regret nothing. Take from them everything.
I didn't think of this when asking for mine.
Would've totally done it.
Just asked for Alex's Bridget.
One of the few times I actually agree with Enzo. Fuck combo breakers. I don't care if you can "bait" them, it's just one of those bandaids on a fighting game to make sure the combos/offense don't get too insane.
I honestly would be all over KI if the game didn't have such a core focus on the combo breaker meta game. I usually got to the mall and play KI at the Microsoft store (it's always on the projector, one of the employee really loves it and he knows me so he lets me play when I drop by during his shift). Whenever I start to get too into it I get involved in the combo breaker meta game and then things start to get sour.
I honestly would be all over KI if the game didn't have such a core focus on the combo breaker meta game. I usually got to the mall and play KI at the Microsoft store (it's always on the projector, one of the employee really loves it and he knows me so he lets me play when I drop by during his shift). Whenever I start to get too into it I get involved in the combo breaker meta game and then things start to get sour.
Blackage
Member
shaowebb
Member
This is true. Its only feasible due to Microsoft needing an exclusive to draw the FGC and needing one to compete with SFV on Sony. Marvel is the other big draw so it makes the most sense.
After the Avengers franchise took off, if they emphasized things from Marvel Cinema and television it would have a lot of mass appeal. It'd draw a lot period just on that popularity alone.
They have their place. If you allow combos and damage to go too high and too far and it would hamper the pacing of your game's movesets and speed to change them then its good to have them in place. If offense gets too insane it equates to touch of death, abusable loops that are too good, and infinites...none of which I really feel are good for a game. A breaker system allows folks to go over the top if they want to without having to overdesign controls on movesets in fear of inbalancing the game. Often this action of pre emptive tweaking leaves some ideas unable to be more than garbage tier.
Like I said...breaker systems have their place. If you let too much rock you get complaints like the ones put up for Marvel 3 and the final balance of MVC2. Making offense as crazy as Marvel without a breaker system lets things eventually get "end gamed" till one hit equates game over and one character lost equals game over. I guess they thought since it was marvel they would mitigate that with equally crazy offensive comeback tools but that just didn't work honestly to fix that concern.
Breakers can work, but they should only be placed in games where tools on movesets are allowed to get really over the top and loud. If Breakers aren't used then you HAVE to setup some incredibly strong defensive options like dodges, clash canceling, infinite/loop protection, just defend cancels and baroque to mitigate stuff IMO.
TvC showed it can work in high pressure large offense settings. Blaz Blue showed it can work in high pressure large offense settings. Marvel could work too so if it did happen I wouldn't see it as bad. It'd just add to the mindgames needed to play your opponent into your hand.
Whether its preferred is up to personal taste, but breaker systems in general are not bad. They serve a purpose and can let games get very loud in their offense if they are added.
Agreed on all parts. Just pay more attention to the quality of assists this time Capcom...
Every MVC game was a massive change/departure from the previous one. Again I agree with Enzo in that MVC4 shouldn't be MVC3.5.
But they need to keep 3v3 assist based combat. That formula still isn't fully tapped yet.
The game didn't really click with me at all on launch, but still had to pick up Skullgirls on the ridiculous Steam sale, those are good people who deserve it. Hope people are picking it up to support.
Edit: Yo people getting salty at non-existing games being chosen over other non-existing games? ayyyyyy
Edit: Yo people getting salty at non-existing games being chosen over other non-existing games? ayyyyyy
SolarPowered
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lol @ the possibility of DS4 at all
We'll see a new Rival Schools first.
We'll see a new Rival Schools first.
This is what happens when you open Pandora's box.
Agreed
Yes, Marvel is huge right now and the avengers alone would be massive for MvC4. If it were up to me Capcom would do Capcom vs Capcom instead.
Green, pointy ears and Skrull chins.
Not a bad choice, either.
Slamtastic
Member
Instead of a manual combo breaker, MvC4 can just implement a more elegant solution
I meant assists lol, I should have edited my comment when I had the chance.
Yeah 3v3 is what I wanted to say. It makes the game a lot more fun with all the possible combinations and orders.
I'm very firmly against combo breakers, they're not catch-all fixes and create their own problems with pacing and diminishing risk/reward in execution of long (or even short) combos in the process. Such a thing would flat out ruin MvC3 if it was there.
If you do it however, I think Baroque is the way to go, and I wouldn't even really be opposed to using small fragments of actual health for cancels (I think that's another way to accelerate game speed as well). The higher the cost for the user, the better I think it is.
Pretty much the same here. KI speaks to a LOT of what I want out of fighting games pretty much everywhere but the combat. I'm constantly impressed by what I see come out of KI in terms of features and character designs.
SNK is dead. They havent made a video game in years. DS4 is possible
Slamtastic
Member
One day someone should make a fighter with no hitboxes on the getting hit frames.
The most pure expression of footsies ever conceived.
The most pure expression of footsies ever conceived.
call_kotaku
Member
Smooth Operator
Member
MvC4 ? Capcom All Stars ?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
what a buncha marks
Holy Order Sol
Member
Viewers were a mistake. They're nothing but trash.
Combo breakers use the lowest form of "mind games" available especially non KI games.
It's basically "I thought you were going to do X but instead you did Y". It's like how some people defend the TAC meta game and that actually has more layers than just "I can finish combo or I can bait burst".
It's basically "I thought you were going to do X but instead you did Y". It's like how some people defend the TAC meta game and that actually has more layers than just "I can finish combo or I can bait burst".
BigBadShamoo
Banned
Combo breakers make sense I think the audience gets them. If they have actually played fighting games before.
shaowebb
Member
Depends on how much they shut down the flow. In Injustice they were too loud, in MK9 they were fast and needed conversions and were often punished if done at the wrong time, in TvC they could be baroque canceled so you recovered before they did and didn't get blown back and gained a reset plus them losing meter, in BB they were fast too and didn't really distract.
Its all in how you implement them.
Like I said, breakers are not inherently bad. They serve a purpose and can be done well and maintain excitement thats plain to see if designed for properly to contain both reward and risk. Catch all breakers aren't done right and kill excitement. Breakers that stop the game for too long aren't done right and kill excitement. Breakers that can't be baited or punished if baited properly aren't done right.
Whether a breaker is something you prefer is something I see up to personal taste and even then its one that doesn't necessarily remain relevant between titles and types of breakers.
It could work if handled with care in areas and balanced by the proper risks or counter systems like how Baroque vs Megacrash existed. Whether it works for Marvel is just a matter of how they could do it and whether or not your own personal feelings towards the experience ever got tired of long combos and touch of death and would enjoy both having this option to get a second chance over just getting another mechanic that grants you crazy touch of death damage like Xfactor.
No real right or wrong, black and white, good or bad to it. Its a gray area that can only be judged once a system is come up with and touched. Simply put ...it could work but it takes care. At least we know from Capcom's track record with TvC that they weren't far from having a system that full on worked for breakers in fast marvel-ish environments of offense.
One thing I considered was replacing TACs with ground-tag mechanics, very akin to how Tekken/SFxTK handle it. You could play around with the conditions you need to initiate it, but I think having someone in a combo is enough.
The more interesting thing to play with is what happens after a tag, where characters could have individualized benefits instead of everyone being ripe for a combo. Perhaps you tag in Hulk and he instantly does a high damaging combo-ending move (flourish and all!), whereas maybe Magneto's finisher leaves the opponent right next to you for next to no damage but prime for mixups right afterwards, or maybe other characters inflict status effects, give you a bit more bar etc. Would add an extra layer to teambuilding IMO, and accomplishes the original TAC goal of finding additional ways to tag.
The more interesting thing to play with is what happens after a tag, where characters could have individualized benefits instead of everyone being ripe for a combo. Perhaps you tag in Hulk and he instantly does a high damaging combo-ending move (flourish and all!), whereas maybe Magneto's finisher leaves the opponent right next to you for next to no damage but prime for mixups right afterwards, or maybe other characters inflict status effects, give you a bit more bar etc. Would add an extra layer to teambuilding IMO, and accomplishes the original TAC goal of finding additional ways to tag.
What about combo breakers you can react to then, like Guilty Gear's?
At the end of the day you have to ask yourself:
What benefit does combo breakers bring to the overall game that isn't just a way to soften something else?
Who does combo breakers actually benefit?
Think of games with and without combo breakers.. would some games be better with combo breakers while others be worse without them?
Excluding KI from the discussion because the combo breaker system is far more involved and woven into the whole structure of the game especially the combo system. It's a core mechanic of the game (ie. what the game is about) unlike combo breakers in other games where it is a supplementary mechanic.
What benefit does combo breakers bring to the overall game that isn't just a way to soften something else?
Who does combo breakers actually benefit?
Think of games with and without combo breakers.. would some games be better with combo breakers while others be worse without them?
Excluding KI from the discussion because the combo breaker system is far more involved and woven into the whole structure of the game especially the combo system. It's a core mechanic of the game (ie. what the game is about) unlike combo breakers in other games where it is a supplementary mechanic.
Karsticles
Member
LOL @ folks thinking Microsoft cares enough about fighting games to fund two titles for us.
I want off the train. :-(
Those weird bands where the guys are all cutting themselves because its hardcore.
shaowebb
Member
We should cuddle. You wanna cuddle? Cuz I could cuddle that post. I'd like to snuggle it.
Reason being is that Sumo Digital (Sonic All Stars Racing) is still operative and working for SEGA so they have no need to do any further subcontracting for a racing title.
I mean it's not totally impossible but it's so unlikely that my head would spin around, detach from my neck and launch itself into the stratosphere if I heard it was true. Then after I achieve orbit I'd realize that contracting Capcom for a racer is stupid, when's the last time Capcom made a racing title?
call_kotaku
Member
x-factor should've also been a burst
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think A.B.A. gets her reference from some Swedish pop group named ABBA.
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