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Fighting Games Weekly | June 10-16 | We got new fighting games! And a new Smash Bros!

K

Karsticles

Member
Lost Fragment said:
KI didn't look that impressive to me, but we haven't seen much so who knows how it'll end up turning out. The biggest thing it has against it is that it's an Xbone game imo.
Click to expand...
I thought I heard someone say that they have only been working on the game for 5 weeks or something. Does anyone else remember hearing that, or another time frame?
 
K

Koogy

Neo Member
xCobalt said:
Sounds awesome. Hopefully we get some international competition since its so close to EVO. Any more exhibitions being planned? Something like Justin Wong vs Apologyman would be pretty great to see.
Click to expand...

We're working on getting more exhibitions and possible international guests. Lots of things are up in the air, but we wanted to get the news out there. :3
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
Karsticles said:
But what do you do when a western developer makes a "JRPG"? :p I'm not a fan of misnomers.

And I'd like to know what the following games are under your system:
Knights in the Nightmare
Chrono Trigger
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy Tactics
Xenoblade
Demon's Souls
Alundra
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying about JRPG, but it is not like I mind when I get a side of french fries in America. I also don't see it is an acronym (or rather, I see the acronym aspect of it as an archaistic), but if I did it would be Japanese-style, not Japanese.

As for the list, there are two things to keep in mind. One, some of these are in the same genre, but are separate by sub-genre. Second, I don't have exact names for these sub-genres because I'm more concerned with grouping them rather than finding a good name that sticks to be frank. Oh, and one more thing: I'm not saying these games can't be compared at all. Some of them can... to an extent. The way I see it some genres (and sub-genres) can be "closer" or "farther" to each other and that reflects the strength of the comparison. (You can compare a dog to a cat easier than you can compare a dog to a bird).

Alundra: In the same vein as 2D Zeldas and Ys. Top-down 2D action games or pseudo-3D, not sure what is the most popular name for this.

Demon's Souls: "3D Action" or "hack 'n slash" or w/e. In particular it's the kind I would describe as "grounded", which basically means limited to no aerial complexity in combat or to get even more basic/generalized: no jumping. (e.g. Zelda, Monster Hunter).

Xenoblade: This might take more effort explaining than I care to (or am capable of making sound intuitive), but what's important here for me is 1) auto-attack, 2) hotbar-like ability selection, 3) free-movement, but abstract/non-manual defense, 4) one controllable character at a time (note this isn't a checklist, but a shortcut without me having to explain how it isn't anything else). This all comes together to make a game that works a lot like FFXI, FFXIV, among other MMOs or beyond (thinking it over "auto-attack" can be replaced with "rapid mouse clicking" in some instances, although that could be another sub-genre in itself). One way to describe it is "pseudo-action" game. So as poorly I've might have explained it, I'm putting it along side MMORPGs, which isn't crazy for me, because I think making a genre based on the number of its human participants or the fake it is online is silly. (This is why I think "MOBA" is a dumb name... oh btw, MOBA games probably fit somewhere here too.)

Final Fantasy Tactics: SRPG or TBS, depending how you want to separate that (SRPG is a sub-genre of tactics games, if anything at all).

Final Fantasy XII: This game is actually tricky for me. This might be due to the mindset I had when first coming up with how to break down "JRPGs": I basically asked myself what is the difference between FFX, FFXI, FFXII, and FFXIII. FFXII was the only one I couldn't pin down neatly. It has free movement and positioning, but they are hardly, if at all, factored into the game (IIRC enemies have to be way out of range to not be able to hit you). If space doesn't count at all, then I almost want to call it a JRPG (as I described in an earlier post), but it certainly takes on the appearance of a MMORPG-like game or even a fast paced, pausable SRPG (but a lack of importance in "maps" means it wouldn't be that).

Chrono Trigger: JRPG, again as I explained it. I guess I should clarify one thing though. There are area attacks which take in account where enemies are standing, however there isn't any meaningful complexity in manipulating that. In way it is a random factor. So when I'm judging a genre, I'm considering the mechanics which matter to how a player plays it, which would not include mechanics which don't amount to any strategy. Similar to this both FFXIII and The Last Remnant occur in a 3D environment and area attacks have "hit boxes" which can miss characters, however there is no real way to change this, so I consider them JRPGs.

Knights in the Nightmare: This is tricky, which is not surprising given it is the most perplexing game I've ever played (though only a little). I haven't played it enough to be confident about it, but maybe it is a one of a kind game (no genre necessary until there are imitators) or a hybrid game (like multiple incompatible types of games happening at once, if that makes sense. An example of this is that Henry Hatsworth game or w/e which is both a 2D action game and a match-3 puzzle games).


Sorry I wrote a lot (and two or three of the explanations may be confusing). Honestly, I don't think I should write anything more about this... although... defining fighting games could be fun.


I guess it is good to hear KI isn't complete trash. Seems like I was too harsh to dismiss it outright.
 
S

Slamtastic

Member
Fighting games
Fighting games

I'm glad to see come new things coming into the genre from the indie scene. Much like I begrudgingly give credit to SF4 for inspiring MK 2011's direction, I thank Skullgirls for getting a lot of money and inspiring confidence in other small devs to make their first fighting game and rescue us from being trapped in a cycle of the same 5 franchises that have existed for 20+ years.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Riposte said:
I see what you're saying about JRPG, but it is not like I mind when I get a side of french fries in America. I also don't see it is an acronym (or rather, I see the acronym aspect of it as an archaistic), but if I did it would be Japanese-style, not Japanese.
Click to expand...
It's one thing when the title has been set in stone, it's another when it's fresh. French fries goes back to a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1802 according to Wikipedia. JRPG is...what, a year or two old? I'm not opposed to renaming french fries, though!

As for the list, there are two things to keep in mind. One, some of these are in the same genre, but are separate by sub-genre. Second, I don't have exact names for these sub-genres because I'm more concerned with grouping them rather than finding a good name that sticks to be frank. Oh, and one more thing: I'm not saying these games can't be compared at all. Some of them can... to an extent. The way I see it some genres (and sub-genres) can be "closer" or "farther" to each other and that reflects the strength of the comparison. (You can compare a dog to a cat easier than you can compare a dog to a bird).
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

Alundra: In the same vein as 2D Zeldas and Ys. Top-down 2D action games or pseudo-3D, not sure what is the most popular name for this.
Click to expand...
IDK, I'm just playing it right now so I tossed it in there (final dungeon!).

Demon's Souls: "3D Action" or "hack 'n slash" or w/e. In particular it's the kind I would describe as "grounded", which basically means limited to no aerial complexity in combat or to get even more basic/generalized: no jumping. (e.g. Zelda, Monster Hunter).
Click to expand...
I'm cool with this.

Xenoblade: This might take more effort explaining than I care to (or am capable of making sound intuitive), but what's important here for me is 1) auto-attack, 2) hotbar-like ability selection, 3) free-movement, but abstract/non-manual defense, 4) one controllable character at a time (note this isn't a checklist, but a shortcut without me having to explain how it isn't anything else). This all comes together to make a game that works a lot like FFXI, FFXIV, among other MMOs or beyond (thinking it over "auto-attack" can be replaced with "rapid mouse clicking" in some instances, although that could be another sub-genre in itself). One way to describe it is "pseudo-action" game. So as poorly I've might have explained it, I'm putting it along side MMORPGs, which isn't crazy for me, because I think making a genre based on the number of its human participants or the fake it is online is silly. (This is why I think "MOBA" is a dumb name... oh btw, MOBA games probably fit somewhere here too.)
Click to expand...
MOBA is a dumb name, but I'm not seeing how Xenoblade is an MMORPG since it's not online.

Final Fantasy Tactics: SRPG or TBS, depending how you want to separate that (SRPG is a sub-genre of tactics games, if anything at all).
Click to expand...
TBS?

Final Fantasy XII: This game is actually tricky for me. This might be due to the mindset I had when first coming up with how to break down "JRPGs": I basically asked myself what is the difference between FFX, FFXI, FFXII, and FFXIII. FFXII was the only one I couldn't pin down neatly. It has free movement and positioning, but they are hardly, if at all, factored into the game (IIRC enemies have to be way out of range to not be able to hit you). If space doesn't count at all, then I almost want to call it a JRPG (as I described in an earlier post), but it certainly takes on the appearance of a MMORPG-like game or even a fast paced, pausable SRPG (but a lack of importance in "maps" means it wouldn't be that).
Click to expand...
Why is this so different from Xenoblade for you? The only major difference is party control.

Chrono Trigger: JRPG, again as I explained it. I guess I should clarify one thing though. There are area attacks which take in account where enemies are standing, however there isn't any meaningful complexity in manipulating that. In way it is a random factor. So when I'm judging a genre, I'm considering the mechanics which matter to how a player plays it, which would not include mechanics which don't amount to any strategy. Similar to this both FFXIII and The Last Remnant occur in a 3D environment and area attacks have "hit boxes" which can miss characters, however there is no real way to change this, so I consider them JRPGs.
Click to expand...
Movement seems important to you, so I ask: where would you put Black Sigil? You'll probably have to youtube the game since it bombed hard.

Knights in the Nightmare: This is tricky, which is not surprising given it is the most perplexing game I've ever played (though only a little). I haven't played it enough to be confident about it, but maybe it is a one of a kind game (no genre necessary until there are imitators) or a hybrid game (like multiple incompatible types of games happening at once, if that makes sense. An example of this is that Henry Hatsworth game or w/e which is both a 2D action game and a match-3 puzzle games).
Click to expand...
I think KitN might be properly defined as a shumps game with unique rules. The focus of the game is on your wisp and what it does, making it the "ship". The rest of the complexity surrounds the conditions under which you can "fire" and different kinds of firing methods. The characters are your weapons, and they degrade over time. Nothing about the game suggests that it should be an RPG to me, though it feels like one aesthetically.

Sorry I wrote a lot (and two or three of the explanations may be confusing). Honestly, I don't think I should write anything more about this... although... defining fighting games could be fun.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed reading it. Thank you. Fighting games seem pretty easy to define:
2D vs. 3D
2D subcategories: team, anime, Smash (lol)
3D subcategories: I don't think it's worth making any.

Slamtastic said:
Fighting games
Fighting games

I'm glad to see come new things coming into the genre from the indie scene. Much like I begrudgingly give credit to SF4 for inspiring MK 2011's direction, I thank Skullgirls for getting a lot of money and inspiring confidence in other small devs to make their first fighting game and rescue us from being trapped in a cycle of the same 5 franchises that have existed for 20+ years.
Click to expand...
If I were an indie developer, fighting games are something I would stay away from. You really need to create a fanbase around your product for long-term support. It's easier to make some artsy-fartsy game that lasts 5 hours for people to swoon over.
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
Slamtastic said:
Fighting games
Fighting games

I'm glad to see come new things coming into the genre from the indie scene. Much like I begrudgingly give credit to SF4 for inspiring MK 2011's direction, I thank Skullgirls for getting a lot of money and inspiring confidence in other small devs to make their first fighting game and rescue us from being trapped in a cycle of the same 5 franchises that have existed for 20+ years.
Click to expand...

yea actually I've heard about beast fury. It's made by some people in indiana. One of the guys is big into sfxtk is all I know.

Koogy said:
We're working on getting more exhibitions and possible international guests. Lots of things are up in the air, but we wanted to get the news out there. :3
Click to expand...

I hope that means you guys are trying to get nemo :)
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
It is so disappointing that the PS4 has been announced since February and no fighting game has been announced for it. Cmon Capcom, Namco and Atlus.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
I-hate-u said:
It is so disappointing that the PS4 has been announced since February and no fighting game has been announced for it. Cmon Capcom, Namco and Atlus.
Click to expand...
IMHO, Sony held back a lot at E3. Tokyo Game Show 2013 is September 19-22, and PS4 is expected to launch in November. It's the right time for them to show all the stuff they have, right before launch. They're already going to sell out just because it's a launch period, they don't need to show everything they have yet.

Parallax Scroll said:
TRB has a 71 person marvel bracket including ChrisG, Kaneblueriver, Neo, and Noel Brown.

http://levelup.challonge.com/trb2013_umvc3_3_5
Click to expand...
Thanks, tuning in.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
livestOne said:
I was saving this beer for friday, but I might crack it open and pull an all nighter. I guess its technically been friday for 16 min already
Click to expand...

Do it.

Also Fanatiq is there.

Will we have a repeat of ChrisG vs Neo grand final? It's more likely than a grand final with a socal player in it.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Karsticles said:
IMHO, Sony held back a lot at E3. Tokyo Game Show 2013 is September 19-22, and PS4 is expected to launch in November. It's the right time for them to show all the stuff they have, right before launch. They're already going to sell out just because it's a launch period, they don't need to show everything they have yet.
Click to expand...

Tekken X Street Fighter incoming
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
Karsticles said:
IMHO, Sony held back a lot at E3. Tokyo Game Show 2013 is September 19-22, and PS4 is expected to launch in November. It's the right time for them to show all the stuff they have, right before launch. They're already going to sell out just because it's a launch period, they don't need to show everything they have yet.
Click to expand...

We are starting the age of brand new consoles and there has been no information on next gen fighters except for KI which is only on X1 and Smash which looks nice. This is disappointing. When I look into a new generation, I like to see how each genre is progressing. Isn't anyone here interested in how fighters are going to look and play on the PS4?

At the very least, I hope we see trailers for Street Fighter 5 and a next gen Tekken between now and TGS.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
I-hate-u said:
We are starting the age of brand new consoles and there has been no information on next gen fighters except for KI which is only on X1 and Smash which looks nice. This is disappointing. When I look into a new generation, I like to see how each genre is progressing. Isn't anyone here interested in how fighters are going to look and play on the PS4?

At the very least, I hope we see trailers for Street Fighter 5 and a next gen Tekken between now and TGS.
Click to expand...

lol good luck with that
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
No way will we see SFV that early. Deep Down has been development for some time and they aren't even going to show a playable version until E3.

Big Japanese companies lagging behind this gen again. Capcom had DR3.... that's it. Konami had MGSV (without PES and based Kojima Konami would be done by now). SE got fanboys hyped up over a game that has been in development for 7 years for the current gen consoles and another game with no game play. Namco didn't show diddly squat.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
FatboyRoberts said:
Tekken X Street Fighter incoming
Click to expand...
Like a punch in the gut.

I-hate-u said:
We are starting the age of brand new consoles and there has been no information on next gen fighters except for KI which is only on X1 and Smash which looks nice. This is disappointing. When I look into a new generation, I like to see how each genre is progressing. Isn't anyone here interested in how fighters are going to look and play on the PS4?

At the very least, I hope we see trailers for Street Fighter 5 and a next gen Tekken between now and TGS.
Click to expand...
Well, I think the question is: what fighters do people want to see? Sure, a lot of people here want more Marvel, but we also know that's just not going to happen. Are people really eager for another Street Fighter already? Ono says they haven't even started working on it. Tekken players here say they don't know what they could really want from another game in the series. Darkstalkers probably got canned by Capcom.

I think, and people are welcome to disagree with me, that fighting game fans are pretty content with what we have right now (outside of Marvel fans). Or, if not content, losing interest in the scene a bit and what it has to offer. I'm curious what other folks think, though.
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Dahbomb said:
No way will we see SFV that early. Deep Down has been development for some time and they aren't even going to show a playable version until E3.

Big Japanese companies lagging behind this gen again. Capcom had DR3.... that's it. Konami had MGSV (without PES and based Kojima Konami would be done by now). SE got fanboys hyped up over a game that has been in development for 7 years for the current gen consoles and another game with no game play. Namco didn't show diddly squat.
Click to expand...

Square Enix has completely forgotten how to make good games. People are hype for that? lol

I'm not counting their outsourced/international stuff. That's actually good.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
Personally speaking, I stopped playing SF4 in 2010, I stopped playing Marvel around a month ago and I stopped playing Tekken after Tekken 5. I am quite frankly bored with the stuff we have to day. And I am going to say something that I would have never thought I would say, Marvel 3 is getting boring to spectate now days.

Ono can say whatever he wants, but there is no way Capcom is not working on nextgen fighter. I am excited for new mechanics, new gimmicks, and new visual styles. Give it to me.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Dahbomb said:
No way will we see SFV that early. Deep Down has been development for some time and they aren't even going to show a playable version until E3.

Big Japanese companies lagging behind this gen again. Capcom had DR3.... that's it. Konami had MGSV (without PES and based Kojima Konami would be done by now). SE got fanboys hyped up over a game that has been in development for 7 years for the current gen consoles and another game with no game play. Namco didn't show diddly squat.
Click to expand...
EVO will be very interesting.
Ono can say whatever he wants, but there is no way Capcom is not working on nextgen fighter. I am excited for new mechanics, new gimmicks, and new visual styles. Give it to me.
Click to expand...
DS4. Believe.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
Square Enix has completely forgotten how to make good games. People are hype for that? lol

I'm not counting their outsourced/international stuff. That's actually good.
Click to expand...
TWEWY!...and supposedly BDFF.

I-hate-u said:
Personally speaking, I stopped playing SF4 in 2010, I stopped playing Marvel around a month ago and I stopped playing Tekken after Tekken 5. I am quite frankly bored with the stuff we have to day. And I am going to say something that I would have never thought I would say, Marvel 3 is getting boring to spectate now days.

Ono can say whatever he wants, but there is no way Capcom is not working on nextgen fighter. I am excited for new mechanics, new gimmicks, and new visual styles. Give it to me.
Click to expand...
He didn't say they have nothing next gen going on, just that SFV is not in the works right now.

I don't get wanting next gen stuff so badly. Fighting games remain the same throughout time. New hardware doesn't offer us anything. Smash is hype because it has a chance to right Brawl's wrongs. If you're really bored with everything out there, what can new fighting games offer you?

Personally, I'm having a blast with this gen of fighting games. I could be content with what we have right now for another 2 years.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Parallax Scroll said:
Square Enix has completely forgotten how to make good games. People are hype for that? lol

I'm not counting their outsourced/international stuff. That's actually good.
Click to expand...
People are hyped because of Nomura. Its essentially empty hype. Aside from pretty graphics there is nothing to suggest FFXV will be a good game at this point in time.

I don't think EVO will be interesting either from a new fighters perspective. Also wasn't there supposed to be an ASW game unveiled at E3?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dahbomb said:
People are hyped because of Nomura. Its essentially empty hype. Aside from pretty graphics there is nothing to suggest FFXV will be a good game at this point in time.

I don't think EVO will be interesting either from a new fighters perspective. Also wasn't there supposed to be an ASW game unveiled at E3?
Click to expand...
People are hyped because FFXV, when it was called Versus, was going to have a world map and air ship. It felt like it could be a return to form. Watching that combat video really let me down, though. It looks like more flashy crap without substance, just like FFXIII. True story: I mashed "Auto" throughout the entire game in FFXIII and through the entire post game (until I got bored). So bad.
 
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