Fighting Games Weekly | June 25 - July 1

A Pretty Panda said:
Your post made no sense. Having long hit stun or easy conversions aren't "random".

I'm pretty sure those are things put in the game on purpose.

God damn that made no sense.
Click to expand...

Uh, those are typically the most common factors contributing to randomness in fighting games. It's the reason errant and non-deliberate hits lead to ToD's.

Whether they were put in the game on purpose or not has no bearing on it.
 
Killa Sasa said:
Among weaker players, yes. People dropping shit and making mistakes all over the place will do that.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but I still think the top players make mistakes, often, and one mistake in marvel at the wrong time can lose a game. In theory you are spot on, but in practice this is the way it is, and this is why 3/5 is such a good thing.

EVO pools are going to have some good players going down (as will AE, but it is all relative).
 
FindMyFarms said:
Uh, those are typically the most common factors contributing to randomness in fighting games. It's the reason errant and non-deliberate hits lead to ToD's.

Whether they were put in the game on purpose or not has no bearing on it.
Click to expand...

If anything you're talking about player randomness, and not the game itself being random.
 
Killa Sasa said:
Nobody talks about MvC1 because that game was just way too broke. Striderine, Double War Machine, Duo Infinite Hypers... game was lol. The game couldn't even handle it if you did the right combination in Dual Mode, hahaha.

Lot of fun to screw around in, everyone has funny gimmicks :D And that music...<3

Best Cap theme, Best Spider-Man theme and the ONLY good Arc Reactor theme.
Click to expand...

SolarPowered said:
MvC1 was the least fluid of the three Mahvel games, but it had the best music and the most personality. It was probably the second most broken game in the series right behind MvC2.

It might be my favorite Mahvel game since the core cast was my favorite even in MvC2(2 still had the best roster).
Click to expand...

check this out probably already seen by a few here but in like rewinding time :p

art vs sabath
Eddie lee vs josh wigfall
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
ex. Wesker teleport.S "oh shit i hit something, let me grab a cup of tea and ponder on my next move...I should convert."

end scene.

Thats a viable definition of random. you have moves in the game that not only have great priority/hitbox etc, but they have good hitstun. So you wanna throw these moves around more just in case you hit something, you can get your combo on.

and I dont think thats necessarily bad in this game btw.
Click to expand...

This is no different from using c.L as pokes so I don't see how this is random. As far as high level play goes, these type of things are probably thrown out because they have assists to back them up or it's a mix-up situation. As far as low level goes, they're just derping hoping they get lucky. Not saying this is the case all the time, but I know for a fact that casual players like to throw things out for no apparent reason because the usual response from an opponent of the same level is either blocking incorrectly or not knowing how to correctly punish said move. For example, back when uMvC3 came out, my friends thought Gimlet was the best thing ever in the game. They threw that shit out randomly and whenever they wanted. I kept telling them that Gimlet was, in fact, one of the unsafest moves on block but because i didn't know or have the skills to punish it, they kept throwing it out thus believing Gimlet was a good super. The same can be said with Wolv's dive kick, great hitbox, great hit stun, but most people will get hit by it. Casual players cry saying "omg random dive kicks scrub" but in actuality, up back is the easiest method to block it. It's also safe on block too so it's hard to punish without using x-factor.

Aside from all that, I don't think that is how random should be defined. That's more or less just bad habits that players have picked up because no one can react properly or they just get away with it on a consistent bases (because of the level of play).

Saying the game is random because of hit stun and such pretty much implies blocking doesn't exist in the game. So if I don't block these moves with, does that mean I'm getting randomed out or am I just bad at the game because I don't block? I am not implying I can block everything 100% either, after all this isn't a perfect world.


toddhunter said:
So who is the most random player?
Click to expand...

This goes to Floobot, at least that is what most EC players agree with. Not necessarily because he is random, but because he doesn't give a shit. Noel Brown said that it's so hard to fight against Floobot because he just throws shit out without really caring if he gets punished or not (mostly because his team has high health).
 
FindMyFarms said:
QisTopTier
Click to expand...

adxvtgvrun.gif
 
FindMyFarms said:
The game's mechanics allow player randomness to be rewarded. Meaning random things happen in the game, aka the game is random.
Click to expand...
That's not really true anymore at high level play. Air throws basically prevent any type of random movement or air moves being thrown out making them a risk. Pressing any button "randomly" will put you at risk of getting hit yourself and getting killed. Most type of zoning playstyle in MVC3 prevents random actions in general. You can definitely not call random assists or you risk losing 2 characters. 90% of the time if you try to do anything random you are going to be at the wrong place at the wrong time making you prime for a teleport mix up, cross up or get clocked by an assist or even an anti-air jab.

It's like saying SF4 is random because random SRK by random player decision beat out moves. It's a poor argument in general because that type of random play is downloaded in a heart beat. The same applies to Marvel, you get downloaded pretty quickly if you do dumb stuff.

If the game truly rewarded random play as much as you are claiming then the tournament placings would be filled with these random players at the top. There would be no consistency in results if some average joe could come up, do some random stuff and win at the game.
 
You can't argue with the evidence though. The same players consistently place similarly over the course of many many tournaments. Randomness is "1. proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers." Gleaning the relevant part of the definition fpr the discussion here, if marvel was random, tournament results would 'occur without pattern.' There is a clear pattern, therefore the game is not random. How can you argue with that? It doesn't matter what your opinion is regarding what theoretically introduces elements of randomness into fighting games- your theory cannot mean that marvel is random because the data that we have makes it clear the game is not random. It's akin to creationists ignoring the fact of the fossile record indicating species changing over time or ignoring the data from carbon dating when they argue against evolution. It's asinine. You must craft a theory that accounts for the data, you can't ignore data and make up whatever you want.
 
I think volatile may be a better word than random. Circumstances can change in an abrupt and significant manner in this game - you can play well for 90% of a match, but one bad assist call can end up costing you the win, especially with a system mechanic like x-factor that helps players capitalize even more on the volatility of the game.

It is still a fairly predictable game overall, but it does have a higher standard deviation than a game like Street Fighter. That doesn't make Marvel better or worse than SF - just different. If any of you watch sports, you'll know that certain sports tend to have upsets more often than others, and in some of those sports they actually make series longer to compensate for that fact.
 
toddhunter said:
Cool, so what is the clear pattern? Can I use it to bet on EVO?
Click to expand...

I will bet who will make top 8 based on tournament results. You can put every player name from all the pools in a hat and pick 8 randomly. Whoever correctly guesses more of top 8 wins. Do you want to play?
 
GatorBait said:
I think volatile may be a better word than random. Circumstances can change in an abrupt and significant manner in this game - you can play well for 90% of a match, but one bad assist call can end up costing you the win, especially with a system mechanic like x-factor that helps players capitalize even more of the volatility of the game.

It is still a fairly predictable game overall, but it does have a higher standard deviation than a game like Street Fighter. That doesn't make Marvel better or worse than SF - just different. If any of you watch sports, you'll know that certain sports tend to have upsets more often than others, and in some of those sports they actually make series longer to compensate for that fact.
Click to expand...
This is by far the best explanation I have seen thus far. Volatile is.a more appropriate word for the game.
 
Dahbomb said:
This is by far the best explanation I have seen thus far. Volatile is.a more appropriate word for the game.
Click to expand...

Volatile unless the whole TAC infinite thing takes off. Then all bets might be off.

Zissou said:
I will bet who will make top 8 based on tournament results. You can put every player name from all the pools in a hat and pick 8 randomly. Whoever correctly guesses more of top 8 wins. Do you want to play?
Click to expand...

This has already been pretty much done with the EVO seeding points. It means little.
 
brightroar said:
Now that they are getting the patch team back together what do you think are the chances of patching other things/characters? Not likely?
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a coincidence that Nitsuma is going to be at an Evo panel discussing the next year in Capcom's fighters.

I mean, nothing's guaranteed still (even a TAC patch), but I think the safe money is on some kind of tweak in the near future.
 
brightroar said:
Now that they are getting the patch team back together what do you think are the chances of patching other things/characters? Not likely?
Click to expand...

I would imagine if they're putting some time and resources (plus how long the XBL/PSN patch process works), they'd probably throw in some character changes or something along with the TAC glitch fix just to get them in there while they can.
 
VF5 is very good to watch. Soul Calibur felt very confusing to me, but here it looks very clear what is going on and how players are reacting and trying to out-read one another.
 
Stream chat for the old school EVO stuff is killing me. I can't unsee NerdJosh partying on the boat in Ken's Stage in Super Turbo now. :lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

EU Hardware Sales (June & July 2024)
33
3K
RetroGamingUK replied
Circana Top Selling Games in Canada for 2024 - COD BO6 #1, Helldivers 2 #2, NHL 25 #3, EA FC 25 #4, Hogwarts Legacy #5
Sales-Age 
40
1K
ComputerBlue replied
  • Locked
FF7 Rebirth launching for PC 1/23/25
6 7 8 9 10
456
27K
cman replied
EDENS ZERO launches July 15
2
378
Dr. Kitty Muffins replied
No Sleep For Kaname Date – From AI: The Somnium Files announced (Due out on July 25, 2025 for PC and Switch)
News 
35
2K
Nankatsu replied
Top Bottom