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[Dahbomb]

Why do people pine for TvC2 so much? Wasn't the first game far more (competitively) broken than umvc3? Feels like games that die before they reach maturity are remembered fondly because it's easy to overlook how busted they were/might've been.

I don't think people care if a game was broken or not as long as it was fun. Some mechanics just jive with people and they want more of that.

If they made a sequel to HnK you know people would be on that shit. And that game makes Marvel 3 look fair and balanced.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Why do people pine for TvC2 so much? Wasn't the first game far more (competitively) broken than umvc3? Feels like games that die before they reach maturity are remembered fondly because it's easy to overlook how busted they were/might've been.

The first version (Cross Generation of Heroes) was very broken, but the revision (Ultimate All Stars) was not.

There's a tier list, like any other fighter, but nothing broken.

If the game had been studied as heavily as UMvC3 had been, people might've been able to break the game, but who knows? I remember seeing a proof of concept of Saki looping an unavoidable unblockable bazooka shot on an opponent with Tekkaman assist, but I don't recall if it ever got anywhere.

 

[shaowebb]

The first version (Cross Generation of Heroes) was very broken, but the revision (Ultimate All Stars) was not.

There's a tier list, like any other fighter, but nothing broken.

If the game had been studied as heavily as UMvC3 had been, people might've been able to break the game, but who knows? I remember seeing a proof of concept of Saki looping an unavoidable unblockable bazooka shot on an opponent with Tekkaman assist, but I don't recall if it ever got anywhere.

That existed, plus Frank West supposed infinites and even a Batsu plink style wavedash utilizing taunt I believe. Thing was the game had combo breakers which meant that even if you tried to achieve touch of death it didn't matter. You needed to fish for Resets more than TOD. Most of the stuff that looped at all led to enough meter gain for the opponent to Megacrash and blow you back and in some cases convert that Megacrash into a combo of their own. Plus if you whooped that ass too hard in a single combo you often left a huge bar of red health for them to convert into a baroque combo comeback off of a good read. Many is the time I took an ass whoopin with low health Karas to call in lockdown Polimar, dash teleport behind for the mixup , and then Baroque combo aaaaaaaaaall that red bar into a comeback.

TVC allowed shenanigans to exist because it had a breaker system...with a few tweaks to the meter usage of Megacrash it'd become huge IMO to use this. What was great was that since the game had almost no Beams outside of supers, no real wavedash, and only a small amount of teleports at all it allowed for a much more footsie oriented style while maintaining an incredibly fast pace.

It was ahead of its time in its design. I honestly feel we took a step backwards with MVC3 going on into a realm of Xfactor and TAC compared to further exploring Aerial Raids, Baroque/Megacrash. TVC was an amazing ride. For those that never played it think Skullgirls with Chun Li's air dash from MVC3 as the sort of pacing of the offense and reset filled environment.

 

[Dahbomb]

Beams outside of supers, no real wavedash, and only a small amount of teleports

But beams, wave dashes and teleports make games hype man...

And you can have footsies (well spacing) with all these things as long as the characters have good aerial mobility. TvC was more ground oriented so it couldn't have the crazy beams, teleports and wave dashes because that would break the ground space control. When you have characters who can fly for really long times and wave dash in the air across the screen in a second you need stuff like teleports and beams to contain them otherwise they would just dominate ground based characters.

 

[Clawww]

I would happily take TvC2 if Mahvel can't happen

I have no faith in either game happening, though... unless Marvel themselves really go for it. I still think it's such a wonderful collaboration and it feels so anachronistic. Had it never happened back then, imagining something like it in this day and age would be so utterly ridiculous. The converse is kind of funny to think about, too: some dude playing ST back in the day going "hmmm what if Ryu fought Wolverine?"

 

[zlatko]

Why do people pine for TvC2 so much? Wasn't the first game far more (competitively) broken than umvc3? Feels like games that die before they reach maturity are remembered fondly because it's easy to overlook how busted they were/might've been.

TvC1 would've had a way bigger following and success that a TvC2 would be around the corner or OUT already if it wasn't on Wii.

There I said it.

Terrible platform to launch a fighter like this on. If it would've been a 360/PS3/PC joint it would've had a bigger following, and a better chance at updates when needed. DLC would've probably took place as well, and a better online net code most likely.

Once MvC3 was announced TvC was done for.

 

[Dahbomb]

I just want to see a non SF from Capcom this generation. Like I am so fucking thirsty for a non SF fighting game from Capcom I will take anything.

I like me some SF but man Capcom has so much talent that they have to put something out. Otherwise they might as well rename their "Capcom Fighters" channel to "Street Fighters". Rival Schools, Darkstalkers, Capcom All Stars, VS game... I don't give a fuck just GIMME!


And I agree that TvC would've faired a lot better if it was on PS3/360 and MvC3 didn't exist. Those two combinations effectively vaporized the game. Thing is that a lot of people were interested in TvC in the first place because it was the closest thing they had to the next MvC game but once the real thing was announced they went to the real thing.

Kinda reminds me of HoN vs DOTA 2. There was a time when HoN was doing well for itself as the stand in DOTA clone. Then the real thing came and HoN just collapsed.

 

[commanderpepper]

I don't want to see another fighting game where Capcom loses the license and can no longer support the game.

 

[Nyoro SF]

That existed, plus Frank West supposed infinites and even a Batsu plink style wavedash utilizing taunt I believe. Thing was the game had combo breakers which meant that even if you tried to achieve touch of death it didn't matter. You needed to fish for Resets more than TOD. Most of the stuff that looped at all led to enough meter gain for the opponent to Megacrash and blow you back and in some cases convert that Megacrash into a combo of their own. Plus if you whooped that ass too hard in a single combo you often left a huge bar of red health for them to convert into a baroque combo comeback off of a good read. Many is the time I took an ass whoopin with low health Karas to call in lockdown Polimar, dash teleport behind for the mixup , and then Baroque combo aaaaaaaaaall that red bar into a comeback.

TVC allowed shenanigans to exist because it had a breaker system...with a few tweaks to the meter usage of Megacrash it'd become huge IMO to use this. What was great was that since the game had almost no Beams outside of supers, no real wavedash, and only a small amount of teleports at all it allowed for a much more footsie oriented style while maintaining an incredibly fast pace.

It was ahead of its time in its design. I honestly feel we took a step backwards with MVC3 going on into a realm of Xfactor and TAC compared to further exploring Aerial Raids, Baroque/Megacrash. TVC was an amazing ride. For those that never played it think Skullgirls with Chun Li's air dash from MVC3 as the sort of pacing of the offense and reset filled environment.

I agree completely with the Mega Crash setups and stuff. Even if the game had doomsday combos the rebalance of the revision took care of that with a couple of safeguards.

Also I will say this: the supers and their animations look way cooler in TvC than they do in Marvel. There's more animation before and during the freeze and I feel like the effects are cooler as well. Of course this isn't a blanket statement and I find Marvel supers to be cool as well, but I like the presentation of TvC's a lot more.

TvC1 would've had a way bigger following and success that a TvC2 would be around the corner or OUT already if it wasn't on Wii.

There I said it.

Terrible platform to launch a fighter like this on. If it would've been a 360/PS3/PC joint it would've had a bigger following, and a better chance at updates when needed. DLC would've probably took place as well, and a better online net code most likely.

Once MvC3 was announced TvC was done for.

I agree, and I feel like TvC was held back from those platforms... I don't buy the hardware excuse. Companies port everything to anything nowadays, and it would have worked just fine on any platform.

But Marvel would've killed it regardless on brand power.

 

["God's Beard!"]

What happens after you get tired of losing?

<_<

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't want to see another fighting game where Capcom loses the license and can no longer support the game.

I agree 100%. Either Capcom All Stars or a brand new fighter IP or Darkstalkers/Rival Schools etc.

Also Itsuno said that he has some brand new concept for a fighting game that have never been done before. I would be there day 1 for an Itsuno developed fighting game. It would be broken as fuck but god damn would it be fun.

 

[zlatko]

I just want to see a non SF from Capcom this generation. Like I am so fucking thirsty for a non SF fighting game from Capcom I will take anything.

I like me some SF but man Capcom has so much talent that they have to put something out. Otherwise they might as well rename their "Capcom Fighters" channel to "Street Fighters". Rival Schools, Darkstalkers, Capcom All Stars, VS game... I don't give a fuck just GIMME!


And I agree that TvC would've faired a lot better if it was on PS3/360 and MvC3 didn't exist. Those two combinations effectively vaporized the game. Thing is that a lot of people were interested in TvC in the first place because it was the closest thing they had to the next MvC game but once the real thing was announced they went to the real thing.

Kinda reminds me of HoN vs DOTA 2. There was a time when HoN was doing well for itself as the stand in DOTA clone. Then the real thing came and HoN just collapsed.

Real talk if Capcom picks anything to pull out of their ass that isn't SF to do again...

My money is all on Capcom vs SNK 3. All my money.

Second after that is a 2D Darkstalkers that uses animations, etc similar to Guilty Gear xrd style... the SF4 style for the dark stalkers cast would be fuck ugly to me.

Third is TvC2.

 

[Kadey]

What happens after you get tired of losing?

Strip buck nekkid and take a hot bath.

 

[shaowebb]

TvC1 would've had a way bigger following and success that a TvC2 would be around the corner or OUT already if it wasn't on Wii.

There I said it.

Terrible platform to launch a fighter like this on. If it would've been a 360/PS3/PC joint it would've had a bigger following, and a better chance at updates when needed. DLC would've probably took place as well, and a better online net code most likely.

Once MvC3 was announced TvC was done for.

This really. Wii had 2 sticks (a hori one and a madcats one...and I got better response out of a PS2 to wii converter running the 15th anniversary SF pad) and no real way to pad warrior the game plus it had Wii's online only. What makes it so sad is the game was actually fully developed JUST to work with the Wii which means (from what the developers have stated) that it would be extremely difficult to ever port the game to any other console.

At this point a special edition for Wii U sold digitally would be my best hope for TvC UAS. It'd need a new controller option setup and new online coded for it plus a lot of the emulator shader mods fans have made for it to really be worth it, but since it'd likely only be something they could setup for the Wii OS side of the Wii U I doubt they'd go for it.

TvC getting a sequel though...this could work. Just set it up for all the new goods we enjoy these days and it'd be much bigger than before considering competent online exists. I'd opt to skip Wii U though and go PS4, PC, and X1. It'd be better for stick users that way and easier to work with for netcode given their is already some groundwork on those setups laid for fighting games to learn from. I don't think folks have really ventured into Wii U netcode with the intentions of fighting games yet.

I want this sequel so bad it hurts honestly. TvC was brilliant to watch. Its why I still play and setup my Wii for Wiimifi just to play other folks at it still.

I just want to see a non SF from Capcom this generation. Like I am so fucking thirsty for a non SF fighting game from Capcom I will take anything.

This. I feel like I haven't really had a fighter I took seriously as a player in so long its painful. I like em fast, I like em tag, and I like em fair and footsied. I haven't found that in a loooooooong time.

 

[Clawww]

I agree completely with the Mega Crash setups and stuff. Even if the game had doomsday combos the rebalance of the revision took care of that with a couple of safeguards.

Also I will say this: the supers and their animations look way cooler in TvC than they do in Marvel. There's more animation before and during the freeze and I feel like the effects are cooler as well. Of course this isn't a blanket statement and I find Marvel supers to be cool as well, but I like the presentation of TvC's a lot more.



I agree, and I feel like TvC was held back from those platforms... I don't buy the hardware excuse. Companies port everything to anything nowadays, and it would have worked just fine on any platform.

But Marvel would've killed it regardless on brand power.

The supers in TvC are awesome. Great animations, effects, camera angles across the board. I agree that they're better than MvC3 and way, way better than SF4, which I find atrocious in this department.

The TvC art style overall is pretty sweet. You know what'd be dope? A Rival Schools or Dark Stalkers put together in that style--maybe it'd be cheaper and they could put out some some more 'cost-efficient' fighting games. Seems to be the vibe at Capcom these days.

 

[Dahbomb]

Out of all the fighters mentioned only Rival Schools actually has a shot of coming back.

And it's only because Itsuno based gawd is vouching for it. Could be his next project after DMC5.

 

[zlatko]

Out of all the fighters mentioned only Rival Schools actually has a shot of coming back.

And it's only because Itsuno based gawd is vouching for it. Could be his next project after DMC5.

You'll get a "HD" remaster sold digitially for $14.99 with junk net code and you'll like it mister!

Captroll completed.

The tears jar will be filled soon with Dahbombs eye fluids-Combofiend laugh.

 

[Onemic]

You'll get a "HD" remaster sold digitially for $14.99 with junk net code and you'll like it mister!

Captroll completed.

The tears jar will be filled soon with Dahbombs eye fluids-Combofiend laugh.

And if it doesnt sell 1 million copies the capcom execs will deem it a failure

 

[commanderpepper]

I'd like to see a new Rival Schools game. I had Project Justice on the Dreamcast when I was like 7 or 8. I had a lot of fun memories with that game.

 

[shaowebb]

Honestly the entire visual aesthetic of Street Fighter 4 collectively turned me off of the entire thing very shortly after I got the first one. I just couldn't bring myself to give a damn about it because the entire time I played it I just couldn't shake the feeling that it looked stupid and consequentially everything I did in it felt stupid to me.

That and just 5 million shotos chucking fireballs felt dull to me. I respect the depth that was in there with the footsies and matchups and all that normal jazz...I just can't really say it ever once excited me to either play or watch SF4. Getting more Street Fighter instead of any break from SF in favor of a different fighter next gen is killing me. Its like a decade of dullness.

 

[Onemic]

Honestly the entire visual aesthetic of Street Fighter 4 collectively turned me off of the entire thing very shortly after I got the first one. I just couldn't bring myself to give a damn about it because the entire time I played it I just couldn't shake the feeling that it looked stupid and consequentially everything I did in it felt stupid to me.

That and just 5 million shotos chucking fireballs felt dull to me. I respect the depth that was in there with the footsies and matchups and all that normal jazz...I just can't really say it ever once excited me to either play or watch SF4. Getting more Street Fighter instead of any break from SF in favor of a different fighter next gen is killing me. Its like a decade of dullness.

Id actually say its closer to 5 million hawks than shotos

 

[Anne]

Project Justice <3 I was playing that today.

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

Honestly the entire visual aesthetic of anime collectively turned me off of the entire thing very shortly after I got the first one. I just couldn't bring myself to give a damn about anime because the entire time I played it I just couldn't shake the feeling that it looked stupid and consequentially everything I did in it felt stupid to me.

My version.

I know that feel, bro.

 

[SolarPowered]

Honestly the entire visual aesthetic of Street Fighter 4 collectively turned me off of the entire thing very shortly after I got the first one. I just couldn't bring myself to give a damn about it because the entire time I played it I just couldn't shake the feeling that it looked stupid and consequentially everything I did in it felt stupid to me.

That and just 5 million shotos chucking fireballs felt dull to me. I respect the depth that was in there with the footsies and matchups and all that normal jazz...I just can't really say it ever once excited me to either play or watch SF4. Getting more Street Fighter instead of any break from SF in favor of a different fighter next gen is killing me. Its like a decade of dullness.

Sometimes you just have to jump outside your comfort zone. I wasn't exactly in love with BB until CS Bang and even after that I still had to stomach the worsening designs (shoutouts to locking the door just to play Makoto story mode) or added play styles over the years (Valk and Hazama can eat a dick). Then came VSav and a little while later SG. It sucks feeling like a FG hipster but it beats five years of shotos, delay based netcode and an entire genre revolving around a single IP like a campfire in the night.

I only regret buying SFIV so many times since it never caught on with me. I'd never do the same with any other fighter, but I did with SF. I won't make the same mistake with SFV if I don't like what I play.

It was ahead of its time in its design. I honestly feel we took a step backwards with MVC3 going on into a realm of Xfactor and TAC compared to further exploring Aerial Raids, Baroque/Megacrash. TVC was an amazing ride. For those that never played it think Skullgirls with Chun Li's air dash from MVC3 as the sort of pacing of the offense and reset filled environment.

We really do need an HD remaster of TvC for PC/Wii U/PS4 and Xbone.

We really do.

 

[oneida]

I don't regret the years I spent with SFIV, but I don't miss them either.

 

[zlatko]

There isn't any fighting game from last gen I really hate the visuals of, but like I said I just don't think Darkstalkers would look good in the SF4/SF5 type of styles.

Darkstalkers would really benefit from a Guilty Gear Xrd aesthetic and differentiate it from the SF4 teams work.

 

[fader]

I miss 90's anime artstyle...

 

[Dahbomb]

I miss 90's anime artstyle...

I got the thread for you:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1033243&highlight=90s+anime

 

[SolarPowered]

There isn't any fighting game from last gen I really hate the visuals of, but like I said I just don't think Darkstalkers would look good in the SF4/SF5 type of styles.

Darkstalkers would really benefit from a Guilty Gear Xrd aesthetic and differentiate it from the SF4 teams work.

Unfortunately things are not that simple. If you want Xrd visuals you gotta get ASW and if you want actual 2D art you've got to talk to Lab Zero. In the case of SNK and KOF XIII sprites... the budget can rip in pieces along with the schedule.

Also, for some reason different subsets of people will probably get pissed at the involvement of any of these studios in said project. Darkstalkers IV is a clusterfuck before an actual design can even be put on paper.

 

[shaowebb]

My version.

I know that feel, bro.

Y'know when looking at your version I guess I can finally relate to the folks that can't play anime fighters like Blaz Blue. Only difference is...I consider Blaz Blue a better game than Street Fighter 4, but considering how little I find myself able to get into SF4 due to aesthetic I guess I can finally understand all the talk of "anime" being the next thing folks mock in fighters. If you can't feel anything but dumb looking at a character it doesn't matter if its anime or SFIV cankle dorks...you just won't get into it. Bad aesthetic equates to dullness for folks.

We really do need an HD remaster of TvC for PC/Wii U/PS4 and Xbone.

We really do.

Yes. Yes we do.
Just look at how good it looks on Dolphin

 

[zlatko]

Unfortunately things are not that simple. If you want Xrd visuals you gotta get ASW and if you want actual 2D art you've got to talk to Lab Zero. In the case of SNK and KOF XIII sprites... the budget can rip in pieces along with the schedule.

Also, for some reason different subsets of people will probably get pissed at the involvement of any of these studios in said project. Darkstalkers IV is a clusterfuck before an actual design can even be put on paper.

Ono clearly has plan/vision on how to execute it, but he does not have the Capcom corporate money men on board.

It's not a financially sound game. They have to go in with a SNK type budget/expectations in creating it.

Or hell if Ono is smart just say "fuck the rules" and make the entire first DLC characters for SF5 be Darkstalkers cast. Create the fighting system he wanted to be used in Darkstalkers to be the one for SF5, and troll successful. #Kappa

 

[Dahbomb]

Seems like Darkstalkers would be the perfect game to use the KI model. Put the game out with 8 characters, price it well and build from there.

 

[zlatko]

Seems like Darkstalkers would be the perfect game to use the KI model. Put the game out with 8 characters, price it well and build from there.

Isn't SF5 going to use this model? I could've sworn I read that somewhere or it was heavily hinted.

 

[shaowebb]

Here...enjoy the Taco cup from Kbeast for TvC

It brings back some great memories of how fast and great the footsies were in this game and how hype the punishes got when you took a footsie game and gave it Mahvel style punish options.

 

[Dahbomb]

Isn't SF5 going to use this model? I could've sworn I read that somewhere or it was heavily hinted.

It's launching with 15 characters. I am thinking Darkstalkers starts with half that.

 

[Kalamari]

I wonder how Japanese players feel about anime character aesthetics.

 

[That Dude John]

I got the thread for you:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1033243&highlight=90s+anime

I feel like we have one of these kinds of threads every other week lol

 

[NEO0MJ]

Also I will say this: the supers and their animations look way cooler in TvC than they do in Marvel. There's more animation before and during the freeze and I feel like the effects are cooler as well. Of course this isn't a blanket statement and I find Marvel supers to be cool as well, but I like the presentation of TvC's a lot more.

Voltekkaaa~!

 

[Zissou]

Wish I could find the posts a while back where Keits explained how TvC was busted. My search-fu is failing me though

Spoiler

Keits where you at?!

 

[shaowebb]

Voltekkaaa~!

 

[Crocodile]

I miss 90's anime artstyle...

Yeah the 90's were awesome!

Oh wait was that not what you meant? It's hard to know what you mean since there were so many different styles used in the 90s

I wonder how Japanese players feel about anime character aesthetics.

Well considering BlazBlue looks different than Persona which looks different than Guilty Gear which looks different from UNEIL, etc. I'd assume any individual would like some of those games and hate other ones?

 

[That Dude John]

Damn.

 

[zlatko]

It's launching with 15 characters. I am thinking Darkstalkers starts with half that.

Fair enough.

To be honest Killer Instinct got me to buy 1 character when I had a XB1. TJ Combo!

If SF5 launched though with it's EXACT model... I'd buy the whole cast and all DLC available right out the gate. I want to mess with all the characters.

I realized that model is great for some, but I feel like I limit my potential to learn the game and find the character that meshes well with me. MKX I had 3 going in I really wanted to play, and turns out I'm ass with all 3.

SF5 Collector's Edition I'm there day one. All my monies Capcom.

 

[Lostconfused]

Oh wait was that not what you meant? It's hard to know what you mean since there were so many different styles used in the 90s

Nope actually you got it 100% correct. Because no the 90s weren't that varied in style. Nor the 80s, or today. Usually there is one dominant trend in terms of art style, depending on whats popular and how prolific some studious are.

 

[shaowebb]

Nope actually you got 100% correct. Because no the 90s weren't that varied in style. Nor the 80s, or today.

Lets see...Terry Bogard, Mai Shiranui.
Hey Juicebox I thought you didn't play anime?
:kappa:

 

[NEO0MJ]

I was hoping for a gif of the original using it, he's my favorite

 

[zlatko]

Terry's face... dat package doe....

 

[Dahbomb]

LMAO at posting a terrible example (and ROFL at Terry with tits). If you are going to post an example of a bad fighting game anime... then at least post Street Fighter 2 the animated movie.

 

[Sayad]

I wonder if dustloop is hurt by having an actual real time chat and people arranging skype chats (seems pretty common anyway) to talk about the game. Things discussed on the forum proper are recorded for posterity and easily accessible to anyone learning about the game, but communication taking place on chat or over skype is inherently transient.

It definitely is, checking some characters forum yesterday, some barely have anything at all about 1.05 patch.

 

[I THULSA DOOM I]

Is TvC on the Wii U as a download?