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[Kimosabae]

I think Venom is shockingly straightforward; it's just that his ceiling is impressively high. Maybe the highest in the game. You can whittle yourself away in training mode coming up with new uses for formations and ball sets and even stall yourself as a competitive player due to this.

Basic gist of Venom is that you get them blocking a ball, preferably meaty, and then go for the high/low mixup/another ball set if the opponent isn't within range. Obviously, this isn't too difficult. Few characters can truly stop Venom from setting balls.

His BnBs are largely straighforward and easy, with little variance among the cast.

Venom's better than people give him credit for, imo. I suspect he always has been. Now that Ram is nerfed, who controls neutral better? Who has better corner pressure, outside Zato? His Oki is among the best and Blitz Shield changes do little to change that - K Ball just isn't as mindless as it use to be. Venom's Guts rating is surprisingly High for the type of character he is - he can change from Zoning to Offensive pressure at the drop of a hat - and beat your character at both. He has one of the best throws in the game, that leads to 100+ damage plus Oki both on and off the ground. He probably has the best 6P in the game (A character that excels at controlling neutral space AND zoning has one of the best Anti-Air normals in the game). Stinger is probably the best YRCable projectile in the game... I could go on.


His only real weaknesses are having no character specific Reversal (eh, since Dead Angle exists), not being able to kill you in 3 combos and losing badly to Chipp and Millia due to the startup on his Balls and the first point. If it weren't for the prominence of those two characters in tournaments, you'd probably see Venom winning more.

 

[RellyRell28]

Watching this ESL MKX tourney stream right now.

 

[kirblar]

http://www.eslgaming.com/news/choose-your-favorite-mortal-kombat-x-pro-league-players-fan-s-choice-exhibition-tournament-2034
ESL Fan Vote.

For maximum salt, I suggest voting for every American player except PerfectLegend.

 

[RellyRell28]

http://www.eslgaming.com/news/choose-your-favorite-mortal-kombat-x-pro-league-players-fan-s-choice-exhibition-tournament-2034
ESL Fan Vote.

For maximum salt, I suggest voting for every American player except PerfectLegend.

For a chance to win

Spoiler

and sell

a XBONE why not.

 

[Karsticles]

You have mained Phoenix, Morrigan, Dormammu and Firebrand... come on now son.

You know as well as I do that Marvel tiers are team-based. Yeah, I used those first three characters, but they were on a team together. Dormammu/Morrigan/Phoenix isn't a high tier team. It only wrecks scrubs. Firebrand/Dormammu/Shuma-Gorath is just a weak and inefficient version of Firebrand/Doom/Skrull. If I wanted the best Dormammu team, I would use FChamp's setup. I would probably do this if I could handle playing Magneto.

Basically, my main team is a functional composition of three characters I adore aesthetically. I consider the team to be mid-high tier. There are at least 5 ways I could change the team to make it high tier, though.

 

[MechaX]

Because blocking is not omi-directinoal and the attack's "hitbox" or whatever spawned behind the area the block was covering, lolololo.

I forget, was blocking omni-directional in vanilla?

 

[shaowebb]

You know as well as I do that Marvel tiers are team-based. Yeah, I used those first three characters, but they were on a team together. Dormammu/Morrigan/Phoenix isn't a high tier team. It only wrecks scrubs. Firebrand/Dormammu/Shuma-Gorath is just a weak and inefficient version of Firebrand/Doom/Skrull. If I wanted the best Dormammu team, I would use FChamp's setup. I would probably do this if I could handle playing Magneto.

Basically, my main team is a functional composition of three characters I adore aesthetically. I consider the team to be mid-high tier. There are at least 5 ways I could change the team to make it high tier, though.

Ya know I go back and forth sometimes on whether tiers being team based is good or bad. On the one hand I very much like the idea that if I like a particular character and want to main them that it doesn't shoehorn me into having to also like "X" character to maximize my main. Generally though if one character appears they will have a particular tool to maximize them (like a good battery in KOF or a particular assist like in MVC1) so when you see one dude thats it you see the same tool picked for them.

On the flipside part of the excitement of team games is the factor of strategy that comes into play from folks in how they build a team. Sort of like seeing a sentinel team that doesn't use drones...it gets exciting seeing what strategy someone came up with. Problem is teams get distilled pretty fast and a lot of variety in teams filters out fairly quickly in this structure. You still see folks maximizing a character and in some ways it forces the play of other dudes, but it seems like it forces the exclusion of certain cast being used more though.

I guess in general they each have their exciting points...one allows you to master whoever you want and maximize them without the need for certain cast to come into play and the other makes folks explore the cast to a degree, but ends up excluding as much as it forces certain pairings and in the case of some cast it bottlenecks their partner choices entirely too much.

In the end, I think both types of games are great and are great to design for. I just wish the tier list in MVC2 and MVC3 weren't so widely stretched on the spectrum in terms of useful assists. If the assist tiers were better we'd probably see more variety in both titles and i'd probably enjoy mvc3 more. Most of my experience was falling for character that were extremely bottlenecked on just who they could use for partners. Due to this I'm pretty firm on the side of "make tag fighters where you can choose whoever you want" but if a fighter with balanced assist tiers came out it'd be cool by me. Probably why I like Skullgirls honestly...I can choose whatever to a much larger degree.

 

[CountBlack]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

 

[CommandThrower]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

Sure, but only for console.

Under no circumstance should you pay for it full price on PC.

 

[Emperor Bohe]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

Its a good ass game. I would play u but I have it on Xbox One.

 

[Professor Beef]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

Fun as fuck. Combo system is still something I'm getting used to though.

 

[Marz]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

Lol no.

 

[alstein]

Sure, but only for console.

Under no circumstance should you pay for it at any price on PC.

Fixed it for you. ^_^

 

[CommandThrower]

Fixed it for you. ^_^

Was contemplating saying that, honestly.

MKX PC port has me so salty. I can't even practice on it because it's not the up to date version, and it never will be. Here I thought I'd buy it for some practice on weeks when I'm away from my house due to work, but no.

Shameful!

 

[stn]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

If you like MK, yes! In addition to the usual online it has tons of unlocks to grind through. You get the same replay value out of it that you get from SF4. Assuming you're into MK.

 

[shaowebb]

Just now paid attention to KI season 2 character ARIA

She is designed to be a full marvel vs capcom team in one character

• kick attacks seem pretty much the backbone of her combos and are universal
• has single button projectiles
• her health is divided into 3 drones and each has its own specials
• whatever drone form she is not currently playing as CAN BE USED AS AN ASSIST ATTACK (base form is a 3 hit beamlike projectile, sword is an AA, boost is a rising fang assist that causes a knockdown)
• Drone assists are both MVC2 and MVC3 like in that some are vulnerable on startup and some are vulnerable at the end only
• drones can take damage so just like a bad assist call you can punish a drone assist and remove health from that "form" of aria should she turn into it (ie tag out)
• because her health is divided amongst her 3 drones she has the equivalent of red health that appears as "white health" and just like in the past this health can be healed by tagging out just like VS games
• She has a fly unfly sort of float by holding up in Boost form reminding me of Storm
• Aria has a 3 hit beam style projectile in base form and fast dashes plus she can cancel this beam into a shadow version that sprays fireballs in an arc similar to Shuma assist (its mahvel baby!)
• Her instinct form lets her combine all remaining drones and has a LVL 3 style transformation cinematic. In this form she can use all their tools. If a drone is already destroyed and she cannot combine with it a drone will appear behind her that acts as an assist in this form that fires a homing projectile. The more drone bodies destroyed before entering into instinct the more drones she has firing in instinct form
• Sword forms poke and crossups look vicious and her DP M and DP H seem to be rushdown multihit tools...H is a launcher.

Not certain how I feel about KI. I see a LOT of busted looking stuff in it, but it has shadow counters and breakers so I can never tell whether it is a completely unbalanced game or just one that can let bullshit rock because of the defensive tools that break offense in the game.

Anyone here care to give their thoughts on Aria and KI in general?

 

[The Lone Dragon]

If you like MK, yes! In addition to the usual online

Whoa, there. The online has been one of the biggest complaints the game has had on all platforms. Don't sugar coat that.

Also, PC version has been saddled with "various issues"...

 

[stn]

Whoa, there. The online has been one of the biggest complaints the game has had on all platforms. Don't sugar coat that.

Also, PC version has been saddled with "various issues"...

Not sugar coating. I'm aware of the problems but I've yet to experience them. In fact, people complained about Injustice but I found it to have the best online out of all the fighters. Never had lag ONCE. I'm in North America, the other day I played with a UK buddy. Zero lag.

 

[El Sabroso]

Anyone here care to give their thoughts on Aria and KI in general?

It's ARIA babeh!

I really want to test this character next week when we will get her

 

[Lostconfused]

I forget, was blocking omni-directional in vanilla?

Nah it was always like that in EXVS.

That's why some people got super mad at GP-03 and Xi DLC. Those fucking missiles would detonate against the ground and hit you even when blocking.

 

[Kumubou]

Not sugar coating. I'm aware of the problems but I've yet to experience them. In fact, people complained about Injustice but I found it to have the best online out of all the fighters. Never had lag ONCE. I'm in North America, the other day I played with a UK buddy. Zero lag.

I have to ask -- how many fighting games have you played online?

 

[Deps]

Not sugar coating. I'm aware of the problems but I've yet to experience them. In fact, people complained about Injustice but I found it to have the best online out of all the fighters. Never had lag ONCE. I'm in North America, the other day I played with a UK buddy. Zero lag.

Zero Issues

 

[Thores]

Anyone here care to give their thoughts on Aria and KI in general?

I think it's great.

There are a lot of crazy gameplay concepts I've never seen before packed into a single package that's still functional somehow.

It manages to be balanced in spite of every character in the cast having at least one ridiculous thing in their toolset, and the tournament scene is always incredibly varied roster-wise in that there's no one "top-tier" character that half the bracket is playing.

I didn't really care about the IP when it initially existed, but I was so interested in the way Double Helix and Iron Galaxy contemporarized that concept that I finally just bought a One for KI specifically. I do not regret it. The game's really neat, and IG keeps making it better and better.

It also has one of the best fighting game soundtracks ever, but that's probably tangential to what you were asking.

 

[CountBlack]

Traded in Nintendo land/Super Mario 3D land or whatever that came with my Wii U and Fire Emblem since I beat it already. Got MKX for $15

Probably gonna do story mode and shit since the online is garbage water.

 

[roflwaffles]

Whoa, there. The online has been one of the biggest complaints the game has had on all platforms. Don't sugar coat that.

Also, PC version has been saddled with "various issues"...

Is the MKX netcode worse than the UMVC3 netcode?

 

[stn]

I have to ask -- how many fighting games have you played online?

In order...

360:
SSF2T HDR
USF4
SFxT
KOF 13
Injustice
MK9
Neo Geo Battle Colliseum
SF3: OE

PS3:
Tekken 6

XB1:
KI
MKX

Steam:
KOF 13

I've experienced the most lag with USF4 and SFxT.

Zero issues

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by this.

 

[shaowebb]

I think it's great.

There are a lot of crazy gameplay concepts I've never seen before packed into a single package that's still functional somehow.

It manages to be balanced in spite of every character in the cast having at least one ridiculous thing in their toolset, and the tournament scene is always incredibly varied roster-wise in that there's no one "top-tier" character that half the bracket is playing.

I didn't really care about the IP when it initially existed, but I was so interested in the way Double Helix and Iron Galaxy contemporarized that concept that I finally just bought a One for KI specifically. I do not regret it. The game's really neat, and IG keeps making it better and better.

It also has one of the best fighting game soundtracks ever, but that's probably tangential to what you were asking.

I'm considering the same...when I research I go all in. I don't understand this game enough yet and so often the shit me and Q are designing on paper just shows up in KI in some form or another. Not 1 to 1 exactly, but similar concepts keep cropping up between what they are trying in themes and move gimmicks. Its happened enough now that I'm starting to think I should upgrade it to something that I watch simply because it tries to be different to something I watch because it may be becoming something ...unique. Not special yet, but unique enough to warrant attention and play.

I'll table it for now. It'd involve another Overtime at the plant and thats not a light choice these days. Just barely ducked out of a 2:30 am call in to do a 12 hour overtime startup shift for em. Fuck man...I hadn't even slept more than 4 hours at a time this week so I'm glad I ducked that.

Still...I may do it next time for this. Its starting to go from just having my attention occassionally to having my interest.

 

[The Lone Dragon]

Is the MKX netcode worse than the UMVC3 netcode?

I haven't played UMVC3 online.

In order...

360:
SSF2T HDR
USF4
SFxT
KOF 13
Injustice
MK9
Neo Geo Battle Colliseum
SF3: OE

PS3:
Tekken 6

XB1:
KI
MKX

Steam:
KOF 13

I've experienced the most lag with USF4 and SFxT.

Judging from personal experience and what I've been reading online from others for the past 6 years, I'd say that your experiences are not the norm.

 

[Sayah]

I hope Microsoft is bringing Killer Instinct to PC. I really want to play it but can't justify an Xbone purchase over that game alone.

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by this.

Aris was condemning the people that said MKX had "zero issues" online........so it became a thing.

 

[CountBlack]

random: this nigga Silky thinks Luffy could beat Goku in a fight

do I play this game on stick or pad tho

 

[Lostconfused]

do I play this game on stick or pad tho

Pad. I dunno, that's what I got from stream monstering. Some games are better on a pad.

 

[stn]

I'd say that your experiences are not the norm.

As I previously said, I acknowledge that. I'm only stating what I've subjectively experienced with all the fighters. People complained about Steam KOF 13, I found it fantastic, for example. Its not like I have a vested interest in lying to the guy about MKX's netcode, an extra sale for that game means nothing to me. Perhaps I'll play tonight and the game will lag out of this world? Its possible.

 

[Dahbomb]

In the end, I think both types of games are great and are great to design for. I just wish the tier list in MVC2 and MVC3 weren't so widely stretched on the spectrum in terms of useful assists. If the assist tiers were better we'd probably see more variety in both titles and i'd probably enjoy mvc3 more. Most of my experience was falling for character that were extremely bottlenecked on just who they could use for partners. Due to this I'm pretty firm on the side of "make tag fighters where you can choose whoever you want" but if a fighter with balanced assist tiers came out it'd be cool by me. Probably why I like Skullgirls honestly...I can choose whatever to a much larger degree.

The real answer is that you make a VS game where A) All characters can be played well at point and B) have all 3 assists be very good/useful or at the very least be interesting.

MVC3 clearly designed certain characters to be played as a support and some be played as points. This results in characters like Jill and Arthur to be made. The problem is that when a character is discovered that has good support AND good point value then that characters become insane (like Dante, Doom, Vergil, Magneto etc).

This type of design philosophy works in MOBAs but doesn't work in fighters. You have to go the Skullgirls route.


Now as far as rating characters in team based games in individual tiers... that is perfectly valid as long as you specify that you are saying what their value on a team is and you are accounting for their support value too. MOBAs do it as well... you don't see potential team tiers, you just see character tiers. That's because those characters are judged on how well they play their role in a team and the value they bring to the team plus how they counter other characters and how they synergize with other good characters.


Now I am MOTIVATED to make a UMVC3 tier list for the year 2015. Haven't made one in a year so I guess now is a good time just before EVO. A few changes I am going to be making in my last one.

 

[Rhapsody]

It's a little amusing how many people here want to drop Ram just because of Ogawa's and Sharon's tier lists... lol

 

[Dahbomb]

It's a little amusing how many people here want to drop Ram just because of Ogawa's and Sharon's tier lists... lol

Gotta pick the top tier son.

 

[DRE Fei]

Was contemplating saying that, honestly.

MKX PC port has me so salty. I can't even practice on it because it's not the up to date version, and it never will be. Here I thought I'd buy it for some practice on weeks when I'm away from my house due to work, but no.

Shameful!

I almost bought MKX on PC but then I heard the horror stories. Even if it was just for practice I would mess around with it but that version is just not worth it at this point.

I really just want sega to port some of their older titles to PC like VF4Evo since I don't have my PS2 anymore.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Just now paid attention to KI season 2 character ARIA


She is designed to be a full marvel vs capcom team in one character

• kick attacks seem pretty much the backbone of her combos and are universal
• has single button projectiles
• her health is divided into 3 drones and each has its own specials
• whatever drone form she is not currently playing as CAN BE USED AS AN ASSIST ATTACK (base form is a 3 hit beamlike projectile, sword is an AA, boost is a rising fang assist that causes a knockdown)
• Drone assists are both MVC2 and MVC3 like in that some are vulnerable on startup and some are vulnerable at the end only
• drones can take damage so just like a bad assist call you can punish a drone assist and remove health from that "form" of aria should she turn into it (ie tag out)
• because her health is divided amongst her 3 drones she has the equivalent of red health that appears as "white health" and just like in the past this health can be healed by tagging out just like VS games
• She has a fly unfly sort of float by holding up in Boost form reminding me of Storm
• Aria has a 3 hit beam style projectile in base form and fast dashes plus she can cancel this beam into a shadow version that sprays fireballs in an arc similar to Shuma assist (its mahvel baby!)
• Her instinct form lets her combine all remaining drones and has a LVL 3 style transformation cinematic. In this form she can use all their tools. If a drone is already destroyed and she cannot combine with it a drone will appear behind her that acts as an assist in this form that fires a homing projectile. The more drone bodies destroyed before entering into instinct the more drones she has firing in instinct form
• Sword forms poke and crossups look vicious and her DP M and DP H seem to be rushdown multihit tools...H is a launcher.

Not certain how I feel about KI. I see a LOT of busted looking stuff in it, but it has shadow counters and breakers so I can never tell whether it is a completely unbalanced game or just one that can let bullshit rock because of the defensive tools that break offense in the game.

Anyone here care to give their thoughts on Aria and KI in general?

I really fucking hate fake stand attacks that have startup on your character. Aria looked cool until then.

 

[Anne]

Gotta pick the top tier son.

Not even about that, just too much effort for such little payout in a game where character strength is a super pronounced.

It's doable with the character until you get to the highest level where MUs will ultimately end up fucking you over, but for that much effort in this game?

 

[fader]

Not even about that, just too much effort for such little payout in a game where character strength is a super pronounced.

It's doable with the character until you get to the highest level where MUs will ultimately end up fucking you over, but for that much effort in this game?

pretty much this.

and Millia was my reload main so I don't mind switching, it's like putting on an old glove for me.

 

[twozerotwo]

Should I buy MKX for full price...


Canadian dollar pls

I wouldn't. Hated the combo system and all-around gameplay. Story mode is the GOAT, doe.

Traded it in for $30 at GameStop, bought PSN cards and am now ready for Ultra on PS4.

 

[Skab]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";164934333]I really fucking hate fake stand attacks that have startup on your character. Aria looked cool until then.[/QUOTE]

Which move are you referring to here?

 

[Emperor Bohe]

random: this nigga Silky thinks Luffy could beat Goku in a fight

do I play this game on stick or pad tho

i play on pad because i can't use my dual modded stick on my Xbox One r.i.p.

 

[NEO0MJ]

do I play this game on stick or pad tho

I play on stick personally.

 

[ShinMaruku]

It's a little amusing how many people here want to drop Ram just because of Ogawa's and Sharon's tier lists... lol

Well when those devs nerf a character, they generally hobble that character by over nerfing. This always happens in all game. Rip Rogue and Nercro in dfo until lately

 

[pixelish]

edit: wrong thread

 

["God's Beard!"]

Which move are you referring to here?

Her little Mags that follow her around. She has startup when she summons them to attack which makes them fireballs instead of Stand attacks.

 

[oneida]

when I realize I can use the wall to continue a punish

 

[NEO0MJ]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";164939850]Her little Mags that follow her around. She has startup when she summons them to attack which makes them fireballs instead of Stand attacks.[/QUOTE]

It's been some time but don't some characters in JoJo also have startup on some of their stand attacks?

 

[Emperor Bohe]

http://www.eslgaming.com/news/choose-your-favorite-mortal-kombat-x-pro-league-players-fan-s-choice-exhibition-tournament-2034
ESL Fan Vote.

For maximum salt, I suggest voting for every American player except PerfectLegend.

why do they always use that old ass Justin Wong photo?

 

[Azure J]

It's a little amusing how many people here want to drop Ram just because of Ogawa's and Sharon's tier lists... lol

It's so sad to me too. Ram was cool. I just didn't have the mind for her game play.