• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fighting Games Weekly | May 25-31 | Marvel vs. Comcast

R

roflwaffles

Member
JeTmAn81 said:
He seemed pretty good to me. Not top player level, but someone who knows what he's doing. Combos were fairly crispy.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why he kept dropping Hyper Grav loops, he did it like 4 times. Everyone was hyping him up to be a RayRay/FChamp tier Magneto but honestly his Doom was more impressive.


Nothing was going to live up to the hype though, him and Shoultz have had this "save that shit for nationals" mentality for years where they hide all of their gameplay footage but then don't actually attend any tournaments.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Juicebox_FGC said:
Pretty much. Great players are often scouting Level 1 neutral tactics, so you have to bring a good Level 2/3 game or you'll never break their comfort zone.

Intermediate players can do Level 2/3 stuff on knockdowns, but they often haven't put in that work for neutral (because no one else has). I find that to be a defining characteristic of high-level play.
Click to expand...

what's level 1/2/3 neutral tactics like?
 
J

Juicebox_FGC

Member
Onemic said:
what's level 1/2/3 neutral tactics like?
Click to expand...

Depends on the game, but here's a simple Street Fighter example:
----
Level 1: Walk forward and poke as soon as I'm in range.

Level 2: Stay out of poke range and look for whiff punishes.

Level 3: I think my opponent is trying to whiff punish, so I'm going to walk forward more than I usually would, -then- poke.
----
It can be put more generally as well:

Level 1: A common tactic that is easy to do.

Level 2: A tactic designed to beat a Level 1 tactic. May be simple or difficult.

Level 3: A tactic that looks like a Level 1 tactic, but is actually specifically designed to beat a Level 2 tactic. Is often beatable by Level 1 tactics.

You can go to higher levels, but it usually isn't necessary.
 
P

petghost

Banned
Aris has been putting out awesome videos on badic tekken strategy. Oneida turned me on to them. Think they are a good watch for any fg player.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Juicebox_FGC said:
Depends on the game, but here's a simple Street Fighter example:
----
Level 1: Walk forward and poke as soon as I'm in range.

Level 2: Stay out of poke range and look for whiff punishes.

Level 3: I think my opponent is trying to whiff punish, so I'm going to walk forward more than I usually would, -then- poke.
----
It can be put more generally as well:

Level 1: A common tactic that is easy to do.

Level 2: A tactic designed to beat a Level 1 tactic. May be simple or difficult.

Level 3: A tactic that looks like a Level 1 tactic, but is actually specifically designed to beat a Level 2 tactic. Is often beatable by Level 1 tactics.

You can go to higher levels, but it usually isn't necessary.
Click to expand...

This is such a cool way of looking at things.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Juicebox_FGC said:
Depends on the game, but here's a simple Street Fighter example:
----
Level 1: Walk forward and poke as soon as I'm in range.

Level 2: Stay out of poke range and look for whiff punishes.

Level 3: I think my opponent is trying to whiff punish, so I'm going to walk forward more than I usually would, -then- poke.
----
It can be put more generally as well:

Level 1: A common tactic that is easy to do.

Level 2: A tactic designed to beat a Level 1 tactic. May be simple or difficult.

Level 3: A tactic that looks like a Level 1 tactic, but is actually specifically designed to beat a Level 2 tactic. Is often beatable by Level 1 tactics.

You can go to higher levels, but it usually isn't necessary.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the writeup.

Now I gotta ask because this is something I've struggled at. How do you get good at whiff punishing? I mean, I can train myself to whiff punish very slow moves on reaction like a Ryu's crouching roundhouse, but something like a low forward or strong I find impossible. My reactions just wont allow me to act in time. One of my buddies I used to play a lot, could whiff punish my Yang's low forward on reaction very consistently and it seems like he just has very fast reactions in general, something that I feel I'll never get. Is there a reliable/consistent way to whiff punish faster moves that arent based on raw reactions or am I SOL?
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
Onemic said:
Thanks for the writeup.

Now I gotta ask because this is something I've struggled at. How do you get good at whiff punishing? I mean, I can train myself to whiff punish very slow moves on reaction like a Ryu's crouching roundhouse, but something like a low forward or strong I find impossible. My reactions just wont allow me to act in time. One of my buddies I used to play a lot, could whiff punish my Yang's low forward on reaction very consistently and it seems like he just has very fast reactions in general, something that I feel I'll never get. Is there a reliable/consistent way to whiff punish faster moves that arent based on raw reactions or am I SOL?
Click to expand...

You don't whiff punish quicker things on reaction because it's impossible. You set them up. Walk up to them, walk back, wait, press your button. Humans are horrid random generators - we fall into patterns trying to be random, and we have a sense of rhythm. Everyone has a rhythm to their play. You want to pay attention to that. You want to find out their beat, and then hit on the second half of the note.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Coffeeling said:
You don't whiff punish quicker things on reaction because it's impossible. You set them up. Walk up to them, walk back, wait, press your button. Humans are horrid random generators - we fall into patterns trying to be random, and we have a sense of rhythm. Everyone has a rhythm to their play. You want to pay attention to that. You want to find out their beat, and then hit on the second half of the note.
Click to expand...

This is something I've heard before, but I find it very hard to put incorporate it into my game. Guess I just have to play a ton of matches focusing on doing this specifically.

Ragingnight said:
juicebox has a very very good footsies tutorial on youtube that explains whiff punishing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQQCan5oo90

basically, you don't whiff punish on reaction. You whiff punish on anticipation.
Click to expand...

I've had this in my watch later list, but have been putting it off for a while now. Guess today's the day to finally watch it.
 
J

Juicebox_FGC

Member
Onemic said:
This is something I've heard before, but I find it very hard to put incorporate it into my game.
Click to expand...

If you think Bison is going to scissor kick -in a moment-, you should neutral jump NOW.
If you think Ryu is going to fireball -in a moment-, you should jump forward NOW.

Whiff punishing is much the same, just involving only normals.

If you think Yang is going to crMK -in a moment-, you should walk backwards NOW, then do your own crMK.

If you think Bison is going to stHK -in a moment-, you should walk backwards NOW, then Step Kick, close HP xx CoD xx FADC forward, crHP, Ultra and kick his ass for being predictable.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Juicebox_FGC said:
If you think Bison is going to scissor kick -in a moment-, you should neutral jump NOW.
If you think Ryu is going to fireball -in a moment-, you should jump forward NOW.

Whiff punishing is much the same, just involving only normals.

If you think Yang is going to crMK -in a moment-, you should walk backwards NOW, then do your own crMK.

If you think Bison is going to stHK -in a moment-, you should walk backwards NOW, then Step Kick, close HP xx CoD xx FADC forward, crHP, Ultra and kick his ass for being predictable.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Thanks for the advice.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Onemic said:
Thanks for the writeup.

Now I gotta ask because this is something I've struggled at. How do you get good at whiff punishing? I mean, I can train myself to whiff punish very slow moves on reaction like a Ryu's crouching roundhouse, but something like a low forward or strong I find impossible. My reactions just wont allow me to act in time. One of my buddies I used to play a lot, could whiff punish my Yang's low forward on reaction very consistently and it seems like he just has very fast reactions in general, something that I feel I'll never get. Is there a reliable/consistent way to whiff punish faster moves that arent based on raw reactions or am I SOL?
Click to expand...

I asked Justin about this when I was playing him in my friends basement. I was asking if it was just reactions or reads on what buttons I want to use.

They way he broke it down for me was that; as a Rufus player, a lot of players (or me in this case) will play defensive against Rufus (especially when Rufus has meter) until they have their turn to get their offence going. He stays out of the ranges of my buttons AND knows which buttons I'd like to use (w/ Elena in this case) and whiff punishes them from far ranges with Rufus cr.HK because that button is great for whiff punishing.

So basically there's #LEVELS to this footsie shit b.


Also check Maj's explanation of Footsies
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
fader said:
the hell am i reading?

EDIT: TDIL: Daigo's weakness is footsies.... huh...
Click to expand...

A bunch of good stuff and a ton of snark?

Thank you Mr. Sarcasm, if you read correctly they said he's leaning on the fireball a bit too much, which is an entirely correct observation. EVERYONE has bad habits. Daigo is not an exception.
 
F

fader

Member
Coffeeling said:
A bunch of good stuff and a ton of snark?

Thank you Mr. Sarcasm, if you read correctly they said he's leaning on the fireball a bit too much, which is an entirely correct observation. EVERYONE has bad habits. Daigo is not an exception.
Click to expand...

oh wow I read that wrong.
 
F

fader

Member
Coffeeling said:
Sorry for biting, but I don't like exaggerating other people's claims and am stuck in an annoying argument on another forum.
Click to expand...

meh whatever, I don't take anything personally on the internet anymore. Think I learned this from being on GAF for a long time.
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
more people need to use fightcade

everyone needs to use fightcade

actually people in this thread need to actually play fighting games
 
C

Coffeeling

Member
K.Sabot said:
more people need to use fightcade

everyone needs to use fightcade

actually people in this thread need to actually play fighting games
Click to expand...

I do, I'm just bad at them
ixgr.png
 
F

fader

Member
K.Sabot said:
more people need to use fightcade

everyone needs to use fightcade

actually people in this thread need to actually play fighting games
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


Only game I "know" on Fightcade though is KOF2002 and I havent played that game since 2004-05

Also, I think I study fighting games too much instead of playing :p
 
K

K.Sabot

Member
fader said:
giphy.gif


Only game I "know" on Fightcade though is KOF2002 and I havent played that game since 2004-05

Also, I think I study fighting games too much instead of playing :p
Click to expand...

I'm the opposite, unfortunately. Spend most of my time in training mode without looking at info repositories, try to find something on my own and then take it online. Still don't really know how the Beach Ball crossup works with May in 1.1. Nor are my combos optimal by any means.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Poll
Gamescom 2024 | OT | Please Bring E3 Back | 11a PT/2p ET/7p BST/7p CEST
|OT| Social Hype 12 13 14 15 16
757
24K
Danjin44 replied
Marvel vs. Capcom Fighting Collection | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2
95
6K
Needlecrash replied
GDC 2024 | Conf Schedules for Unreal & other Game Tech
2
1K
CamHostage replied
How would folks go about creative a slightly more unified "MMORPG community", the same way the Fighting game community (FGC) is?
5
459
Kumomeme replied
Silent Hill: Ascension to Feature Season Pass, Microtransactions
News Business Cringe 2 3
126
8K
Deerock71 replied
Top Bottom