Support NeoGAF

[Pagusas]

Cloud before and after the mako intoxication crisis were two completly different personas, before, he was just a creation of his mind and jenova, after? that was the real Cloud

None of them were AC's Cloud tho, AC's cloud is soldier Cloud, the one that was ashamed of himself -_- but he was 16 when he was like that

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I've played through FF7 multiple times and it never once seemed that Cloud and Tifa made out and or had sex during that scene. I always felt that it more suggested that they slept side by side head on shoulder, something close friends with a lot of history would do eecially diring all that meteor drama.

 

[Pagusas]

I've played through FF7 multiple times and it never once seemed that Cloud and Tifa made out and or had sex during that scene. I always felt that it more suggested that they slept side by side head on shoulder, something close friends with a lot of history would do eecially diring all that meteor drama.

That wouldn't spur the reaction that happened on the Highwind. Its highly suggested they slept together. I never once saw it any other way, and I was just a young kid the first time I played it.

 

[funkypie]

That wouldn't spur the reaction that happened on the Highwind. Its highly suggested they slept together. I never once saw it any other way, and I was just a young kid the first time I played it.

What was the reaction on the high wind I forgot? Regardless tifa got non-sloppy seconds. Cloud had to settle due to his real love getting away.

 

[Wazzy]

Cloud and Tifa definitley have sex and it's canon they do. Basically the night can end differently depending on how you treated Tifa so if you weren't giving her the time of day nothing happens.

I believe the romantic moments that are canon are the sex scene and the Cloud and Aeris date.

I really hope they don't try to paint them in a better light like making sure there aren't any civilians or some crap. Not because I want them to be painted as horrible villains or anything, but because I want the seriousnous and ramifications of what they are doing become more apparent. It could be an excellent example of people fighting for a good cause yet in a way that may do more harm than good, and could be making them no better than the monsters they are trying to fight.

Not sure how well I'm wording this...


lol You almost had me there... you were joking right? RIGHT?

Spoiler

For the sake of argument though it's the childhood romance thing. Tifa is still clearly into Cloud and Cloud went off to become a member of SOLDIER go impress her in the first place (and also to prove himself). Dude most definitely is still into her now too.

Funny enough, they really aren't a childhood romance. Tifa ignores him until she finds out he's trying to join SOLDIER so they make the promise that when he's famous he'll come back for her. It's actually petty on her part but at the same time it's one of the only flaws I could appreciate about the character.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

That wouldn't spur the reaction that happened on the Highwind. Its highly suggested they slept together. I never once saw it any other way, and I was just a young kid the first time I played it.

Given Tifa's character and strong independent nature it would still be embarrassing if people saw you cuddling and sleeping with head rested on somebody elses shoulder.

Furthermore, if they were having sex, would your friends literally watch uou do it? How shitty is that. If I accidentally saw a friend of mine having a sex with a guy, I would immediately look away and sure as shit not bring it up publically and embarrass the shit out of her. The entire scene was written and done so poorly it honestly doesn't matter what they did, the entire scene there and moring after was a cluster fuck to begin with.

 

[MogCakes]

Cloud and Tifa definitley have sex and it's canon they do. Basically the night can end differently depending on how you treated Tifa so if you weren't giving her the time of day nothing happens.

Really? I should try a new playthrough and butter her up, haha. I usually went for Aerith between the two.

 

[Wazzy]

Really? I should try a new playthrough and butter her up, haha. I usually went for Aerith between the two.

Yeah but I usually cold shoulder the shit out of her so I don't have to see that nauseating scene lol

It doesn't mean much anyways since it's kind of "we're about to die" moment.

Given Tifa's character and strong independent nature it would still be embarrassing if people saw you cuddling and sleeping with head rested on somebody elses shoulder.

Furthermore, if they were having sex, would your friends literally watch uou do it? How shitty is that. If I accidentally saw a friend of mine having a sex with a guy, I would immediately look away and sure as shit not bring it up publically and embarrass the shit out of her. The entire scene was written and done so poorly it honestly doesn't matter what they did, the entire scene there and moring after was a cluster fuck to begin with.

It's a really horribly done scene that people enjoy for some odd reason but they do have sex. It's stupid and makes no sense they did it while everyone was creepily watching but I suppose it had to do with the creators original plan not being put in(something about them sleeping together in a chocobo barn) so they did the ambiguous sleeping together outside.

When I was young, I never once thought they had sex and I was shocked it was the popular opinion. They slept(not meaning sex here) together outside and I thought Tifa was embarrassed about being caught.

 

[Via Purifico]

Given Tifa's character and strong independent nature it would still be embarrassing if people saw you cuddling and sleeping with head rested on somebody elses shoulder.

Furthermore, if they were having sex, would your friends literally watch uou do it? How shitty is that. If I accidentally saw a friend of mine having a sex with a guy, I would immediately look away and sure as shit not bring it up publically and embarrass the shit out of her. The entire scene was written and done so poorly it honestly doesn't matter what they did, the entire scene there and moring after was a cluster fuck to begin with.

This is the same game that had plenty of other creepy as fuck moments so it's not that far fetched they watched them as they got it on.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I've played through FF7 multiple times and it never once seemed that Cloud and Tifa made out and or had sex during that scene. I always felt that it more suggested that they slept side by side head on shoulder, something close friends with a lot of history would do eecially diring all that meteor drama.

This was, and has always been my interpretation also. Why would he fuck her when the woman he actually liked just died? That's not on, and tarnishes their friendship. I think that is not correct.

 

[Meccanical]

I really hope they don't try to paint them in a better light like making sure there aren't any civilians or some crap. Not because I want them to be painted as horrible villains or anything, but because I want the seriousnous and ramifications of what they are doing become more apparent. It could be an excellent example of people fighting for a good cause yet in a way that may do more harm than good, and could be making them no better than the monsters they are trying to fight.

Not sure how well I'm wording this...

I'm hoping for this as well.

Barret and co are good people with good intentions, but fact is they don't do good things.

 

[AlphaSnake]

This was, and has always been my interpretation also. Why would he fuck her when the woman he actually liked just died? That's not on, and tarnishes their friendship. I think that is not correct.

Because Tifa's embarrassed when she goes up to the Highwind with Cloud, is surprised to see everyone there. Acts confused. And then after some vague statements she says: "....were you watching!?!" and then runs into a corner, collapses and shakes her head in embarrassment while Cloud scratches his head.

Now that I'm older, it's pretty damn obvious they had sex.

Edit: To clarify, you guys have to remember there were two scenarios for that scene. If you answered all of Tifa's questions affectionately throughout the game, she'll say "were you watching"? and the conversation below the Highwind will also be a little different. If you answer Aerith more affectionately, Tifa will ask the gang "were you listening?" and then act shy rubbing her toes against the ground. Completely different scenarios.

 

[Wazzy]

Because Tifa's embarrassed when she goes up to the Highwind with Cloud, is surprised to see everyone there. Acts confused. And then after some vague statements she says: "....were you watching!?!" and then runs into a corner, collapses and shakes her head in embarrassment while Cloud scratches his head.

Now that I'm older, it's pretty damn obvious they had sex.

Edit: To clarify, you guys have to remember there were two scenarios for that scene. If you answered all of Tifa's questions affectionately throughout the game, she'll say "were you watching"? and the conversation below the Highwind will also be a little different. If you answer Aerith more affectionately, Tifa will ask the gang "were you listening?" and then act shy rubbing her toes against the ground. Completely different scenarios.

Absolutely since the game pushes you to decide who Cloud loves(even if people want to deny it) which is why the date and this scene change depending on your choices.

I will disagree that it's obvious they had sex. I think it's an interpretation that was likely but just as easily could have been one of them being embarrassed being caught sleeping together outside thinking no one was there. The only reason it's canon is because it was confirmed to be sex.

Personally, I think people focus way too much on this scene as if it means much. It's a little shocking yes but it has no implications for the story or characters after. They had sex and that's it.

 

[NeOak]

Is this game coming to Xbox One?

May have been discussed earlier but there's too many pages to look through.

Because reading the OP is tooooo hard

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Because Tifa's embarrassed when she goes up to the Highwind with Cloud, is surprised to see everyone there. Acts confused. And then after some vague statements she says: "....were you watching!?!" and then runs into a corner, collapses and shakes her head in embarrassment while Cloud scratches his head.

Now that I'm older, it's pretty damn obvious they had sex.

Edit: To clarify, you guys have to remember there were two scenarios for that scene. If you answered all of Tifa's questions affectionately throughout the game, she'll say "were you watching"? and the conversation below the Highwind will also be a little different. If you answer Aerith more affectionately, Tifa will ask the gang "were you listening?" and then act shy rubbing her toes against the ground. Completely different scenarios.

I don't agree with that interpretation. That embarrassment is because they had a private intimate moment, not because he boned her in front of the Highwind. I mean you can get why she was that way from what they actually showed in the scene, I don't know why someone would twist that into explaining something that wasn't shown and say it must be that.

 

[funkypie]

i always kicked tifa to the curb on play through, as far as I was concerned, she wasn't fit enough to lace areiths bra. It always seem to me tifa was embarrassed that people saw them comforting one another in an embrace of words and sleeping side by side. Maybe if i were nice to her I would see the different scene.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Replayed FF7.

1. Bugenhagen lied to Red XIII (Nanaki) and told him his dad ran off and left him and his mother to die in an attack. I don't see why he wouldn't just tell him the truth. A huge disservice to his dad and to Red XIII for no reason. It didn't do him any good, and made him feel resentment towards his father his whole life. Bugenhagen, what a dick!

2. Odd that The Golden Saucer has one entrance, and it's located in a giant pile of rubble where an entire city was razed to the ground. Seems like they would try to clean that up to make it more attractive to prospective visitors.

3. In ending FMV, there is a shot where you can see Midgar getting hit by Meteor from the observatory in Cosmo Canyon. Nevermind that it's on the other side of a round planet, it looks like it's 2 miles away max. Just horrible.

4. Aeris likely goes on dates for money to earn a living. It all adds up. Selling flowers for 1 gil a piece while living in a huge house, being so savvy about the red light district, being so well-versed at flirtation and manipulation of scummy men, and offering a 'date' as compensation to Cloud in exchange for his services. Seems obvious to me.

5. Wutai vs Midgar is not supposed to be "West vs. East," but rather 'modernity vs. antiquity." After all, Midgar is pretty Japanese... just modern like Tokyo.

6. I think the big materia section of the 2nd disc was horrible and pointless. In fact, it's clearly just filler. I have no idea why we were collecting them and when we finished, we did jack shit with them. All we did was sabotage Rufus, who is an asshole, but very competent and one of the only people actively trying to fix the problem. His mako cannon twice saved the day, and was the only reason the team was able to confront Sephiroth in the first place.

7. Jenova theme is the best.

8. Odd that it is raining in the flashback where Tifa meets Cloud in the Sector 7 slum station. I guess it's not under a plate after all?

9. The ending clearly destroys humanity. But, it seems retconned.

10. The Save Crystal in the last area really didn't serve any purpose. Everyone uses it at the same place, I'm sure.

11. Cait Sith's 'death' is so dumb. Not only is he not a real person, but he shows up 2 seconds later with a new one. Maybe that's some Japanese humor... that they would do that big bitter-sweet scene where he sacrifices himself, only to pop up two seconds later.

12. I always treat Aeris like shit. She don't love u. Tifa is the only true choice.

13. Midgar is 20x more interesting than the rest of the game. It kinda becomes hard to suspend disbelief once you see how superficial the world is. Kalm, a shitty village 100 years in the past... just abandon the aesthetic and style of the game completely right out the Midgar gates.

14. The second disc is awful after the Northern Crater. The Midgar section should have been much longer, like the length of the 1st disc. The 2nd disc could have been the rest of the world and the game should have concluded at the Northern Crater the first time. Oh well.

15. Game's too easy. Materia is way OP, KOTR and 4x Cut are game-breaking.

Now, with all these things considered, I now fully embrace a remake. They will give way more coherence to the plot and make the world seem more believable. And maybe give it an interesting battle system. A straight rehash would be boring. So, really looking forward to it!

Great overview. Replaying it now and also finding it way too easy and picking up on things I didn't before. lol at the Aerith observation.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

I agree.
I feel FFVIII did a great job recovering from this, as that world seems much more 'connected'. It just works very well aesthetically. You can believe that design and architecture was shared among the various regions in a lot of aspects, yet there are enough cultural differences to add flavor & variety (i.e. Galbadia vs. Balamb).
Hell, I still consider VIII's world design the most well imagined of the series. Naora just did a wonderful job making the world seem like it had a real history, as opposed to just staggered sets like VII.

You can say FFVIII's world was more progressively stable, despite being at war. It seems FFVIII's world was allowed to progress all together at the same rate. FFVII, however, seems like the full lion's share of progression(due to Mako revolution) was focused on Shinra's side. It's basically what would happen if a world was introduced to a power that lead to a MASSIVE technological shift in a short amount of time, while those with the "power" kept it's privileged exclusive to those who could afford it. Shinra basically used and abused those who had Mako deposits under their towns, sapped them dry and forgot about them. If you weren't able to live in Junon city(like those living in the shadow of Junon) or the upper Plate of Midgar, you were pretty much trash to Shinra. I think it pretty much showed how the "haves" hoard prosperous living from the "have nots", in the most drastic and literal of presentations.

 

[cj_iwakura]

LO was listed in both Crisis Core Ultimania and Final Fantasy VII Ultimania 10th Anniversary Edition with no mention of it being not canon.

I sure found him dying to a sniper rifle more realistic(and apt) than Shinra sending an entire army after him(Crisis Core). He was just a man. A bullet to the head would kill him as easily as anyone else.

 

[afternoon delight]

This better come out for pc

This is actually one of the games pushing me to purchase a PS4 despite owning a PC... If it's not some mangled beast amalgamation of active battles and pointless retcons.

 

[Pagusas]

I sure found him dying to a sniper rifle more realistic(and apt) than Shinra sending an entire army after him(Crisis Core). He was just a man. A bullet to the head would kill him as easily as anyone else.

I hate how in LO seph jumped into the mako reactor instead of being thrown in by cloud. Ruins the whole thing for me.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I hate how in LO seph jumped into the mako reactor instead of being thrown in by cloud. Ruins the whole thing for me.

That was lame, but it had its charms. CC really effed with the VII version.

 

[BreakAtmo]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/08/14/playstation-experience-2015-comes-to-san-francisco/

Welp, PSX 2015 confirmed for December 5-6. What's the chances of this being the 'winter' they were talking about?

 

[Hibiki Kurosawa]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/08/14/playstation-experience-2015-comes-to-san-francisco/

Welp, PSX 2015 confirmed for December 5-6. What's the chances of this being the 'winter' they were talking about?

Hopefully. Maybe a way to rectify last year's terrible PSX FFVII announcement.

 

[SolidSnakex]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/08/14/playstation-experience-2015-comes-to-san-francisco/

Welp, PSX 2015 confirmed for December 5-6. What's the chances of this being the 'winter' they were talking about?

It's either PSX or Jump Festa (December 19-20).

 

[Inuhanyou]

This was, and has always been my interpretation also. Why would he fuck her when the woman he actually liked just died? That's not on, and tarnishes their friendship. I think that is not correct.

"he actually liked"? I think that only really depends on the choices you make in the game. Otherwise, she was a special person Cloud got really close to, if you don't move toward her relationship points wise.

On the other hand, we already know that, through the case of tifa in OTWTAS, their(cloud and tifa's) relationship continued on while they lived together with Marlene and Denzel(until geostigma), and after AC.

Aerith may have died, and everyone, especially Cloud was a devastated about it, but i'm pretty sure both relationships from both heroines meant a lot in the game.

Tifa was the only one able to help Cloud piece togethr his memories again after they fell into the lifestream, in the process they essentially learned everything about what the other was hiding emotionally. That's not a small thing.

 

[dreampeppers99]

In my gaming dreams I want to short clips (2min):

1. Zelda Wii U Gameplay
2. FF 7 Gameplay

 

[AlphaSnake]

I don't agree with that interpretation. That embarrassment is because they had a private intimate moment, not because he boned her in front of the Highwind. I mean you can get why she was that way from what they actually showed in the scene, I don't know why someone would twist that into explaining something that wasn't shown and say it must be that.

So why have two separate scenarios with different reactions then?

Why be super embarrassed when you found out your friends may have "watched" everything. And on the flip side, why be nowhere near that embarrassed when you found out your friends were "listening". The weight of each scenario is clearly different with two different tones and two completely different end reactions by Tifa.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Hopefully. Maybe a way to rectify last year's terrible PSX FFVII announcement.

They will just troll us again and show clips of the FFVII "HD" port before giving us some trailer of VIIR.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I've played through FF7 multiple times and it never once seemed that Cloud and Tifa made out and or had sex during that scene. I always felt that it more suggested that they slept side by side head on shoulder, something close friends with a lot of history would do eecially diring all that meteor drama.

I actually agreed with you during my first two playthrough, but on my third playthrough I got the high affection version that made me think they actually did it.

Given Tifa's character and strong independent nature it would still be embarrassing if people saw you cuddling and sleeping with head rested on somebody elses shoulder.

Furthermore, if they were having sex, would your friends literally watch uou do it? How shitty is that. If I accidentally saw a friend of mine having a sex with a guy, I would immediately look away and sure as shit not bring it up publically and embarrass the shit out of her. The entire scene was written and done so poorly it honestly doesn't matter what they did, the entire scene there and moring after was a cluster fuck to begin with.

Both the low affection and high affection scenes had Cloud and Tifa cuddling. It's just that in the high affection scene Tifa acted much, much more embarrassed when she found out their friends were already on board the airship.

Saying that the party members just creepily watch is assuming the worst of them. They could just as well searched for Cloud and Tifa on airship, noticed them down under and then went "whoa let's look away." Also, they didn't actually bring it up publically and Tifa just assumed. It's even implied that Cid told the rest to hide for a while because it'd be awkward if they immediately appeared when Cloud and Tifa got back.

 

[BreakAtmo]

It's either PSX or Jump Festa (December 19-20).

Hell, why not both? 'Tis the winter of our new content.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Holy shit what did I miss? What's all this talk about Ultimanias (what the hell is that?) and this supposed confirmation this and high affection that if Tifa and Cloud banging under the stars? I've played FFVII in its entirely and have watched AC and I have no idea what implied sex you guys are talking about!

Could anyone clarify?

 

[Ferr986]

This was, and has always been my interpretation also. Why would he fuck her when the woman he actually liked just died? That's not on, and tarnishes their friendship. I think that is not correct.

But the woman he actually likes (since childhood) is Tifa.

 

[Wazzy]

Holy shit what did I miss? What's all this talk about Ultimanias (what the hell is that?) and this supposed confirmation this and high affection that if Tifa and Cloud banging under the stars? I've played FFVII in its entirely and have watched AC and I have no idea what implied sex you guys are talking about!

Could anyone clarify?

Basically if your affinity with Tifa is high(there's a date mechanic in the game where your choices affect scenes with characters to fit whoever you chose) the night of the highwind it's implied they sleep together. The creators confirmed it and that it was canon. Another example they confirmed was Cloud and Aeris's date which is also canon.

"he actually liked"? I think that only really depends on the choices you make in the game. Otherwise, she was a special person Cloud got really close to, if you don't move toward her relationship points wise.

On the other hand, we already know that, through the case of tifa in OTWTAS, their(cloud and tifa's) relationship continued on while they lived together with Marlene and Denzel(until geostigma), and after AC.

Aerith may have died, and everyone, especially Cloud was a devastated about it, but i'm pretty sure both relationships from both heroines meant a lot in the game.

Tifa was the only one able to help Cloud piece togethr his memories again after they fell into the lifestream, in the process they essentially learned everything about what the other was hiding emotionally. That's not a small thing.

Actually, most post AC confirms that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is struggling and that there's no idea if it will even survive. Hell, Nomura wouldn't even acknowledge if there was a relationship.

But the woman he actually likes (since childhood) is Tifa.

He likes both. VII left things more ambiguous for the player so they could kind of choose his relationship. But with how things have gone since AC, it only seems like they've been pushing Aeris a lot more.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Basically if your affinity with Tifa is high(there's a date mechanic in the game where your choices affect scenes with characters to fit whoever you chose) the night of the highwind it's implied they sleep together. The creators confirmed it and that it was canon. Another example they confirmed was Cloud and Aeris's date which is also canon.

My memory is fuzzy over this date mechanic. To get Tifa's affection high wouldn't you have to date Tifa instead of Aeris? And if I dated Aeris (meaning she's the one with the high affection instead) how can I get the implied sex with Tifa then? Can you actually get both canon scenes in one play through (date with Aeris, sex with Tifa)?

 

[Wazzy]

My memory is fuzzy over this date mechanic. To get Tifa's affection high wouldn't you have to date Tifa instead of Aeris? And if I dated Aeris (meaning she's the one with the high affection instead) how can I get the implied sex with Tifa then? Can you actually get both canon scenes in one play through (date with Aeris, sex with Tifa)?

I believe you can since both scenes are the easiest to acquire without pushing the romance angles too hard. Tifa's might require a little more romantic points to get the high affinity scene but otherwise they're both the canon ones.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I believe you can since both scenes are the easiest to acquire without pushing the romance angles too hard. Tifa's might require a little more romantic points to get the high affinity scene but otherwise they're both the canon ones.

Ok thanks. I clearly remember the date scene in Golden Saucer and the optional affection choices tha game gives you but for the life of me I can't remember this below the Highwind scene of Tifa and Cloud cuddling. It's been many years since the last time I revisited this game.

 

[Wazzy]

Ok thanks. I clearly remember the date scene in Golden Saucer and the optional affection choices tha game gives you but for the life of me I can't remember this below the Highwind scene of Tifa and Cloud cuddling. It's been many years since the last time I revisited this game.

They definitely just fall asleep together in one path but the other is implied sex.

Though reading up on it again, the sex scene apparently wasn't confirmed canon, just that it was one of the two paths the scene could go. So it's one of those "it's kind of canon but kind of not" things lol

 

[BocoDragon]

Ok thanks. I clearly remember the date scene in Golden Saucer and the optional affection choices tha game gives you but for the life of me I can't remember this below the Highwind scene of Tifa and Cloud cuddling. It's been many years since the last time I revisited this game.

That's a scene where, if you aren't reading into it deeply, you won't read as a love scene.

I think you saw that scene. And thought nothing of it. It really is just a fade to black after a typical dramatic "discussion" scene.

If you don't have a dirty mind, you won't see sex, or a relationship, or anything. You might just see two friends talking and then the scene ends.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

They definitely just fall asleep together in one path but the other is implied sex.

Though reading up on it again, the sex scene apparently wasn't confirmed canon, just that it was one of the two paths the scene could go. So it's one of those "it's kind of canon but kind of not" things lol

I was honestly more surprised that they had supposedly confirmed that they had sex and that it was canon. Japan's all weird about their heroines remaining chaste and pure lest some shut-ins burn their Tifa merchandise and stop buying more.

Square confirming their 20 year old FF poster girl had premarital sex? That didn't sound very Japanese (as creepy as that sounds) but I was taking your word for it. Now that you've clarified it it all makes sense now.

In a franchise where they've never shown a clear on-screen kiss and instead contains endless amounts of "will they won't they" angst of course they would never confirm a main heroine having sex with the MC (hell the main theme of FF8 was love and the titular characters only kiss off-screen at the very end after 70 hours of gameplay!).

 

[Wazzy]

I was honestly more surprised that they had supposedly confirmed that they had sex and that it was canon. Japan's all weird about their heroines remaining chaste and pure lest some shut-ins burn their Tifa merchandise and stop buying more.

Square confirming their 20 year old FF poster girl had premarital sex? That didn't sound very Japanese (as creepy as that sounds) but I was taking your word for it. Now that you've clarified it it all makes sense now.

In a franchise where they've never shown a clear on-screen kiss and endless amounts of "will they won't they" angst of course thy would never confirm a main heroine had sex with the MC (hell the main theme of FF8 was love and the titular characters only kiss off-screen at the very ending after 70 hours of gameplay!).

I think the point is that it's an option and is acknowledged by SE. They planned to have it more obvious but thought the original idea was to risqué.

Either way, It's not really a well done scene and the regular talk makes far more sense in the context of the game. I just chalk it up as the worlds ending and if you decided Cloud's romantic interest is Tifa then they wanted something bigger to happen.

Another thing to note is we are talking about VII where a lot more messed up things happens. Also I don't know if I'd call Tifa their poster girl. I'd think Aeris having sex would be a bigger deal.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Okay, I'm playing FFIX and the difference in quality is amazing. It's makes FF7 seem like a rushed, half-finished product. FFIX is BEAUTIFUL. Why can't they make another FF game like this? Whimsical and fun; superbly interesting and varied character designs. You had a monkey man, a rat humanoid, a burly knight, a summoner girl, a blue monk, a monstrous gourmand, and a princess (secret summoner). What a crazy and interesting cast!

I like to think FF7's success is what led to budget and talent to make this game a reality. And the relatively poor sales of FFIX is what led to them abandoning the non hip hyper-sexualized style of FFX and beyond. That aesthetic does 0 for me. FF8's didn't do anything for me, either. I much prefer FF6 and before.

I know I'm sounding like a negative guy, but the reality is that FF7 is being remade into the style of game that I feel has alienated some of us older jrpg fans. While this is worrisome, I realize that FF7 has so many flaws. I often wonder if it's one of those 'You had to be there' kind of things. Maybe this poor standard of quality is offputting to people who find the game later, but man, when I was 12 it was mindblowing. Always will love this game despite lazy translation, graphics, and writing that i now realize is not acceptable by today's standards.

 

[BocoDragon]

I was honestly more surprised that they had supposedly confirmed that they had sex and that it was canon. Japan's all weird about their heroines remaining chaste and pure lest some shut-ins burn their Tifa merchandise and stop buying more.

Square confirming their 20 year old FF poster girl had premarital sex? That didn't sound very Japanese (as creepy as that sounds) but I was taking your word for it. Now that you've clarified it it all makes sense now.

In a franchise where they've never shown a clear on-screen kiss and instead contains endless amounts of "will they won't they" angst of course they would never confirm a main heroine having sex with the MC (hell the main theme of FF8 was love and the titular characters only kiss off-screen at the very end after 70 hours of gameplay!).

FF7 wasn't made with a 2000s/2010s otaku audience in mind. I think all those assumptions go out the window. They weren't pandering to an audience.

I think it's more that the team did want to confirm the implication that Cloud had turned affections from Aerith to Tifa after the former's death. The "fade to black" was 90s code for "The hottest scene possible in a video game", but as time went on, they needed to confirm it for a more modern audience.

So much stuff was only hinted at in the old games, the scope of them didn't demand anything more. But in retrospect FF7 was important, and the "Cloud/Aerith/Tifa" love triangle was important... so they needed to translate those old "implications" into more literal statements. Yes, they intended for Tifa and Cloud to get close toward the end of the game.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I think the point is that it's an option and is acknowledged by SE. They planned to have it more obvious but thought the original idea was to risqué.

Either way, It's not really a well done scene and the regular talk makes far more sense in the context of the game. I just chalk it up as the worlds ending and if you decided Cloud's romantic interest is Tifa then they wanted something bigger to happen.

Another thing to note is we are talking about VII where a lot more messed up things happens. Also I don't know if I'd call Tifa their poster girl. I'd think Aeris having sex would be a bigger deal.

Other than possibly Ashe who got married at the beginning of FFXII (and I say "possibly" because this is Japan and I totally see the possibility of sex not happening) has there ever been a confirmation of a FF heroine having sex with another character in a game?

Tifa or Aeris, I think it would be a big deal for either.

Also what other messed up things happened in FF7? I honestly can't remember.

 

[illmatic22]

Holy shit what did I miss? What's all this talk about Ultimanias (what the hell is that?) and this supposed confirmation this and high affection that if Tifa and Cloud banging under the stars? I've played FFVII in its entirely and have watched AC and I have no idea what implied sex you guys are talking about!

Could anyone clarify?

Originally, Cloud was supposed to leave the chocobo stable followed by Tifa who'd look around to make sure nobody saw them. Which implies they had a roll in the hay. But Kitase thought it was too extreme and so they went with a more subtle scene instead.

I tend to to think they had Sex but who knows? Perhaps it's something they'll make more transparent in the remake.

 

[BocoDragon]

Okay, I'm playing FFIX and the difference in quality is amazing. It's makes FF7 seem like a rushed, half-finished product. FFIX is BEAUTIFUL. Why can't they make another FF game like this? Whimsical and fun; superbly interesting and varied character designs. You had a monkey man, a rat humanoid, a burly knight, a summoner girl, a blue monk, a monstrous gourmand, and a princess (secret summoner). What a crazy and interesting cast!

I like to think FF7's success is what led to budget and talent to make this game a reality. And the relatively poor sales of FFIX is what led to them abandoning the non hip hyper-sexualized style of FFX and beyond. That aesthetic does 0 for me. FF8's didn't do anything for me, either. I much prefer FF6 and before.

I know I'm sounding like a negative guy, but the reality is that FF7 is being remade into the style of game that I feel has alienated some of us older jrpg fans. While this is worrisome, I realize that FF7 has so many flaws. I often wonder if it's one of those 'You had to be there' kind of things. Maybe this poor standard of quality is offputting to people who find the game later, but man, when I was 12 it was mindblowing. Always will love this game despite lazy translation, graphics, and writing that i now realize is not acceptable by today's standards.

Well that's 0% true. FFIX was announced the same day as FFX and FFXI.

The future mould for the FF series (in the form of FFX, XII and XIII) was set before FFIX was even in production. Before they even started IX, they knew it was a throwback. They knew it was one last hurrah for the old style. It was never a possible future for the series the moment they began work on IX. The plan for FFX was to eschew the traditions of FF and their plan was never to stick to tradition forever after. And FFXI was online!

Abandoning those traditions forever had nothing to do with the sales of FFIX. Its reason to exist was to be one last old school adventure.

In fact it's more surprising that FFIX existed at all, since FF7 and 8 clearly pointed toward the RPG-mould breaking trajectory of 10, 11, 12, 13, etc.

 

[Wazzy]

Other than possibly Ashe who got married at the beginning of FFXII (and I say "possibly" because this is Japan and I totally see the possibility of sex not happening) has there ever been a confirmation of a FF heroine having sex with another character in a game?

Tifa or Aeris, I think it would be a big deal for either.

Also what other messed up things happened in FF7? I honestly can't remember.

There's a rape scene with Cloud(optional) and pretty much the whole Honey Bee Inn section is inappropriate.

FF7 wasn't made with a 2000s/2010s otaku audience in mind. I think all those assumptions go out the window. They weren't pandering to an audience.

I think it's more that the team did want to confirm the implication that Cloud had turned affections from Aerith to Tifa after the former's death. The "fade to black" was 90s code for "The hottest scene possible in a video game", but as time went on, they needed to confirm it for a more modern audience.

So much stuff was only hinted at in the old games, the scope of them didn't demand anything more. But in retrospect FF7 was important, and the "Cloud/Aerith/Tifa" love triangle was important... so they needed to translate those old "implications" into more literal statements. Yes, they intended for Tifa and Cloud to get close toward the end of the game.

Well I don't know if I agree they intended Cloud and Tifa to become close by the end of the game since a big part of the game is the player deciding Clouds romance. It also doesn't help that if their intention was to make it seem like he moved on they probably shouldn't have included Aeris in the ending the way they did.

It's going to be fun seeing how they handle the LT and date mechanism in this game.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

FF7 wasn't made with a 2000s/2010s otaku audience in mind. I think all those assumptions go out the window. They weren't pandering to an audience.

I think it's more that the team did want to confirm the implication that Cloud had turned affections from Aerith to Tifa after the former's death. The "fade to black" was 90s code for "The hottest scene possible in a video game", but as time went on, they needed to confirm it for a more modern audience.

So much stuff was only hinted at in the old games, the scope of them didn't demand anything more. But in retrospect FF7 was important, and the "Cloud/Aerith/Tifa" love triangle was important... so they needed to translate those old "implications" into more literal statements. Yes, they intended for Tifa and Cloud to get close toward the end of the game.

I'm not sure if the late 90s otaku were all that different from the otaku of the 00s and 10s but I'm no scholar on the matter.

Even if Tifa and Cloud being canon at the end of FFVII was true it all went to shit when they made AC, basically confirmed nothing (AFAIK they slept in at least different beds, maybe different rooms) and reversed the status quo to the bullshit we were on before. There are less hints in AC about a relationship than the freaking game, and that was just setting things up. The movie happened after their relationship had had a beginning!

Basically: they had no balls to say their heroine was in a stable relationship with a man (aka boning). And I do chalk this up a bit (or a lot) to Japanese otaku culture and pandering. More the movie than the game.

It's going to be fun seeing how they handle the LT

LT???

 

[Wazzy]

I'm not sure if the late 90s otaku was all that different from the otaku of the 00s and 10s but I'm no scholar on the matter.

Even if Tifa and Cloud being canon at the end of FFVII was true it all went to shit when they made AC, basically confirmed nothing (AFAIK they slept in at least different beds, maybe different rooms) and reversed the status quo to the bullshit we were on before. There are less hints in AC about a relationship than the freaking game, and that was just setting things up. The movie happened after their relationship had had a beginning!

Basically: they had no balls to say their heroine was in a stable relationship with a man (aka boning). And I do chalk this up a bit (or a lot) to Japanese otaku culture and pandering. More the movie than the game.


LT???

Love Triangle.

It has nothing to do with them not having any balls. SE doesn't consider Tifa and Cloud a canon romance. Whether that be because they're sticking to the original games up to the player or they just don't want it addressed, it's got nothing to do with being scared to acknowledge it.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Originally, Cloud was supposed to leave the chocobo stable followed by Tifa who'd look around to make sure nobody saw them. Which implies they had a roll in the hay. But Kitase thought it was too extreme and so they went with a more subtle scene instead.

I tend to to think they had Sex but who knows? Perhaps it's something they'll make more transparent in the remake.

It's funny how that was considered too riske for a Teen rated game in 1997. Nowadays that wouldn't be riske at all but still so few jrpgs confirm sex ever happens in their games with their main heroes involved that if it went down today in a FF game I would still be surprised.