Blood Diamonds
Banned
Man the OST for FF XIII-2 seems really good I need to hurry up and finish XIII :v
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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
XJF
Member
It is. I got the NA LE version that came with the OST. It has a more peppy/jazz feel to it, similar to how upbeat the X-2 OST was. The music for XIII-2 reminds me of the Bayonetta soundtrack. Had some VERY memorable tunes on that baby!
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
...I'm going to say something that's really not going to be popular with a lot of folks in here, but it's my two cents about it. I don't want to stir shit up or anything but I kind of want to get it off my chest.
If you have to make a thread explaining the narrative for a video game that people probably have trouble keeping up with, then the game did not succeed in fashioning its narrative and its storytelling progress. It never used its medium to its benefit to convey to the character its world, its characters, its narrative, or its general plot flow.
The story isn't FF13's only problem (since the pacing is whack). The method of storytelling is its issue, especially since much of it is divided up into various forms of media. Not only games, but crucial plot points are including in the ultimanias and the pre- and post-game novels. I've always maintained that the reason why I don't hate Hope or have a better understanding is because I'd read the FF13 prequel novel. Reading the FF13 sequel novel kind of made me feel like the whole story was done, or that the next move was to (ending spoilers)
instead of going into the direction they did.
The fact that some suggest that you need to go to a Wiki and read up on stuff you've missed that's crucial information to understanding bridges between a game or understanding parts of a game that you went through but they didn't bother to include narrative or plot aspects within those segments that you've played because of the development phase/lack of communication between depts/running out of time/other matters is a little... well, kind of disappointing. You're not taking advantage of the medium you've chosen to tell your tale.
The thing about game design is that you want to tell the player everything they need to know about the world, your characters, and its general narrative by using the medium that's available to you. Video games are unique in this fashion because it can use many, many aspects of its presentation and medium strengths in order to tell its player what's going on, and to give the player a little bit of agency with respect to its goal. You have art design, music, scene direction, dialogue, voice acting, character interaction (which can be linked to player agency depending on who you talk to, who you forge relationships with, who you'd like to get closer to or get to know better, etc), character growth via stats and/or narrative, player agency in the characters' struggle or quest to save the world or save whomever, etc. Sometime you don't outright tell your audience how the world works, but NPCs and even art design can facilitate that. If a city is completely dank, filled with the poor, and garbage from the rich, you'll realize that there's a class system without having talked to NPCs, that there's a class that dominates the lower classes and probably mistreats them, and the colours used in the backgrounds can facilitate the mood and atmosphere of the area.
You aren't just using dialogue to communicate to the player what the area is like, but you're using the music and background design to tell your player what the place is like, and possibly how they should feel about it. You're using the areas to tell your story. My problem was that FF13 really liked to use its dialogue to tell the story or use its areas as superficial setpieces without using everything around it to properly convey its narrative. Hence, everything was shoved into the datalog or into character speeches that served to provide character development as opposed to being a gradual and flowing process for the player to gradually learn and gather information. There isn't this sense of cohesiveness in terms of the game's design and I think that's what bothered me the most both times I played FF13 in both English and Japanese. And even later when I'd platinumed the game. And I'll say the same thing about FF13-2 and my plat run for that.
Final Fantasy 13-2's excuses for "towns" and excuses for NPC dialogue simply seemed to have been put into the game for the sake of throwing in everything including the kitchen sink in order to make everyone who was unhappy with the previous game lacking a traditional RPG "feel" happy. It didn't feel cohesive, nor did anything about these aspects felt genuine. You can be impressed with the scale of Academia, but it didn't necessarily feel like it worked very well as a town as it didn't feel very genuine to me. People honking on about plushies or going shopping as you pass them simply feels like you're passively involved and engaged with the town as opposed to genuinely getting to know people or talking to them about anything going on in the era.
I almost like to liken it to a nice sinusoidal wave in terms of properly conveying the narrative and the setting as opposed to something that's more of a jump discontinuity or harsh points with maxima and minima on graphs.
Despite being clearly games that focus more on the concept of "character growth" as opposed to emphasizing saving the world or saving someone, character growth just "happens". It isn't generally gradual (and I could say the only ones that the narrative seemed to have succeeded with slightly were Hope, Vanille, and Sazh), but more of a rapid and harsh point on a graph done for the sake of saying, "Yes, this character came to a revelation and now they've changed for the best and their quotes in battle change... see, Lightning's thanking people for healing her now". But the change is so abrupt because you never got to know these people. At the very least, FF13-2's characters are a little more acceptable because both of them gradually grew. Noel's a decently-written character by comparison because you legitimately got to know him and his backstory. And you got to see how Serah gradually became independent through trial by fire.
I guess that's also why LR feels weird to me: because instead of going micro and saying that you're emphasizing character growth, it just feels like they're emphasizing the macro despite the fact that some of the characters' growths have been unravelled in the previous game.
And for reference, I thought both FF13 games were average at best.
If you have to make a thread explaining the narrative for a video game that people probably have trouble keeping up with, then the game did not succeed in fashioning its narrative and its storytelling progress. It never used its medium to its benefit to convey to the character its world, its characters, its narrative, or its general plot flow.
The story isn't FF13's only problem (since the pacing is whack). The method of storytelling is its issue, especially since much of it is divided up into various forms of media. Not only games, but crucial plot points are including in the ultimanias and the pre- and post-game novels. I've always maintained that the reason why I don't hate Hope or have a better understanding is because I'd read the FF13 prequel novel. Reading the FF13 sequel novel kind of made me feel like the whole story was done, or that the next move was to (ending spoilers)
save Fang and Vanille
The fact that some suggest that you need to go to a Wiki and read up on stuff you've missed that's crucial information to understanding bridges between a game or understanding parts of a game that you went through but they didn't bother to include narrative or plot aspects within those segments that you've played because of the development phase/lack of communication between depts/running out of time/other matters is a little... well, kind of disappointing. You're not taking advantage of the medium you've chosen to tell your tale.
The thing about game design is that you want to tell the player everything they need to know about the world, your characters, and its general narrative by using the medium that's available to you. Video games are unique in this fashion because it can use many, many aspects of its presentation and medium strengths in order to tell its player what's going on, and to give the player a little bit of agency with respect to its goal. You have art design, music, scene direction, dialogue, voice acting, character interaction (which can be linked to player agency depending on who you talk to, who you forge relationships with, who you'd like to get closer to or get to know better, etc), character growth via stats and/or narrative, player agency in the characters' struggle or quest to save the world or save whomever, etc. Sometime you don't outright tell your audience how the world works, but NPCs and even art design can facilitate that. If a city is completely dank, filled with the poor, and garbage from the rich, you'll realize that there's a class system without having talked to NPCs, that there's a class that dominates the lower classes and probably mistreats them, and the colours used in the backgrounds can facilitate the mood and atmosphere of the area.
You aren't just using dialogue to communicate to the player what the area is like, but you're using the music and background design to tell your player what the place is like, and possibly how they should feel about it. You're using the areas to tell your story. My problem was that FF13 really liked to use its dialogue to tell the story or use its areas as superficial setpieces without using everything around it to properly convey its narrative. Hence, everything was shoved into the datalog or into character speeches that served to provide character development as opposed to being a gradual and flowing process for the player to gradually learn and gather information. There isn't this sense of cohesiveness in terms of the game's design and I think that's what bothered me the most both times I played FF13 in both English and Japanese. And even later when I'd platinumed the game. And I'll say the same thing about FF13-2 and my plat run for that.
Final Fantasy 13-2's excuses for "towns" and excuses for NPC dialogue simply seemed to have been put into the game for the sake of throwing in everything including the kitchen sink in order to make everyone who was unhappy with the previous game lacking a traditional RPG "feel" happy. It didn't feel cohesive, nor did anything about these aspects felt genuine. You can be impressed with the scale of Academia, but it didn't necessarily feel like it worked very well as a town as it didn't feel very genuine to me. People honking on about plushies or going shopping as you pass them simply feels like you're passively involved and engaged with the town as opposed to genuinely getting to know people or talking to them about anything going on in the era.
I almost like to liken it to a nice sinusoidal wave in terms of properly conveying the narrative and the setting as opposed to something that's more of a jump discontinuity or harsh points with maxima and minima on graphs.
Despite being clearly games that focus more on the concept of "character growth" as opposed to emphasizing saving the world or saving someone, character growth just "happens". It isn't generally gradual (and I could say the only ones that the narrative seemed to have succeeded with slightly were Hope, Vanille, and Sazh), but more of a rapid and harsh point on a graph done for the sake of saying, "Yes, this character came to a revelation and now they've changed for the best and their quotes in battle change... see, Lightning's thanking people for healing her now". But the change is so abrupt because you never got to know these people. At the very least, FF13-2's characters are a little more acceptable because both of them gradually grew. Noel's a decently-written character by comparison because you legitimately got to know him and his backstory. And you got to see how Serah gradually became independent through trial by fire.
I guess that's also why LR feels weird to me: because instead of going micro and saying that you're emphasizing character growth, it just feels like they're emphasizing the macro despite the fact that some of the characters' growths have been unravelled in the previous game.
And for reference, I thought both FF13 games were average at best.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Schala. I'm confident most know all about XIII series obvious flaws and failings and obnoxious fallacies but fact is they already have their own audience and that audience doesn't care if the game is bad or mediocre. They find it fun and for them that is "good enough".
Me and Corvo over the years have said why XIII and it's hellspawn are bad and you know what...even if we are right it doesn't matter when you have a fanbase that was cut in half and then XIII cut those halves into halves, which at this point it isn't even worth the waste of time to expel hot air when you know no one is gonna give a fuck about it anyway. It's been heard before, you will only gain the recognition of those who agree and the disdain of those who fully believe that their game was decent for what it was.
It's at this point that we move on to better things, and if FF's fate is to diminish, stagnate, rot away and die off then so be it.
Me and Corvo over the years have said why XIII and it's hellspawn are bad and you know what...even if we are right it doesn't matter when you have a fanbase that was cut in half and then XIII cut those halves into halves, which at this point it isn't even worth the waste of time to expel hot air when you know no one is gonna give a fuck about it anyway. It's been heard before, you will only gain the recognition of those who agree and the disdain of those who fully believe that their game was decent for what it was.
It's at this point that we move on to better things, and if FF's fate is to diminish, stagnate, rot away and die off then so be it.
Meccanical
Member
But for real though, it was bad.
Professor Beef
Banned
And here I was prepared for something really bad.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Beef, pls. It was bad. 
It's just at this point I have to wonder, "Do you people remember how to design a video game cohesively anymore?" My impression is that they want to go after critical acclaim and throwing in everything they could to appease everyone as opposed to creating a cohesive assortment of systems to assist in carrying out the game's progression.
It's disappointing that the end-goal seems to be, "do what it takes to make people like this and get higher scores for it even if it doesn't necessarily seem like cohesive game design." Throwing in everything including the kitchen sink-type of design isn't something I'd typically endorse unless the rest of the game gels with it well. Quantity does not necessarily mean better quality.
Oh well.
It's just at this point I have to wonder, "Do you people remember how to design a video game cohesively anymore?" My impression is that they want to go after critical acclaim and throwing in everything they could to appease everyone as opposed to creating a cohesive assortment of systems to assist in carrying out the game's progression.
It's disappointing that the end-goal seems to be, "do what it takes to make people like this and get higher scores for it even if it doesn't necessarily seem like cohesive game design." Throwing in everything including the kitchen sink-type of design isn't something I'd typically endorse unless the rest of the game gels with it well. Quantity does not necessarily mean better quality.
Oh well.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Beef, pls. It was bad.
It's just at this point I have to wonder, "Do you people remember how to design a video game cohesively anymore?" My impression is that they want to go after critical acclaim and throwing in everything they could to appease everyone as opposed to creating a cohesive assortment of systems to assist in carrying out the game's progression.
It's disappointing that the end-goal seems to be, "do what it takes to make people like this and get higher scores for it even if it doesn't necessarily seem like cohesive game design." Throwing in everything including the kitchen sink-type of design isn't something I'd typically endorse unless the rest of the game gels with it well. Quantity does not necessarily mean better quality.
Oh well.
Square is a empty shell of what it once was.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Not all fans are the same. You know I like the XIII series and I don't have disdain for well thought out post like Corvo's or Schalas'. Post like those shouldn't be discouraged. If not, all we'll have left are the type of fans you mention in these threads.
The XIII series and XIV are the only current main FFs to discuss, and even those whom hate the XIII series or find it average are curious about what will happen in LR. XV seems to be another big crazy production that will probably divide fans again, so I don't think FF is going away soon.
Meccanical
Member
That's as bad as Schala can muster.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
If it's ever made you mean.
-----------------
XIV doesn't seem to be discussed at all. Must not have much to be interested about.
Meccanical
Member
XIV discussion happens in the OT I'm sure.
I'm not gonna throw down with you, Schala, because I agree with what you're saying, especially as it relates to Final Fantasy XIII, but I've been playing WAY THE FUCK TOO MUCH Ace Attorney this month and so I'm gonna cross examine you for some more information on some points you've brought up. Mostly I just want you to clarify a few things so I can know where I stand in relation to what you have said.
By "Have to" you mean "it really is the only way" correct? Because to my mind have jumped now countless occasions in which forum discussion of the plot of a game has helped me make sense of it, whether it needed it or not.
The three examples I have of this are 1)The Legend of Zelda, 2)999/VLR and 3)The Ace Attorney Series.
Now, for the sake of making clear what I think, none of the above REQUIRE you to make a thread, but there is much to be gained from discussing the plots which any one player might overlook. The Ace Attorney series is pretty expanded, and just the other day we had a good discussion over there about
Obviously, no such discussion is needed to understand the plot of that game. The game does an effective point of doing this itself, but I think it cleared up some confusion which occurs as the natural result of people just kinda not being perfect receptacles for information. AA is pretty straightforward, though. 999/VLR has a lot of crazy references to things that you may not know. You don't need to get them to get the whole plot, but I'd argue that they certainly enhance your understanding and discussion with others helps you frame the events in such a way that you can look back and understand them better. And lastly, the Zelda series. Each game is self-contained and straightforward, but the lore of the series for ages and ages was reliant upon fan historians to be its custodians, and to be honest, as long as you didn't care too much, those discussions were fun. I don't think anyone who played Skyward Sword from start to finish should be left with any doubts as to most of the major events of Hyrulean history, nor the events within the game, but fan discussion is useful, if not necessary.
Which is all I want to make certain here: Do we mean you cannot decipher a plot without an entire thread to explain the basic plot, or the background lore, or what? Because I think it is one thing for Magius and I to debate whether or not Type-0's plot means that Lindzei and Pulse are locked in a struggle to open Etro's Gate in all worlds involved in the FNC, and something else entirely when you have to have something to explain the clusterfuck that is FFXIII-2's ending.
I agree whole heartedly, but I was wondering what your thoughts are concerning in-game databases. In Tactics, Tactics Ogre, and dare I say Kingdom Hearts, I think they've been done well enough. It's supplemental material you don't need, but which can effect your view of the events of the game. Kind of like how fans of Lemony Snicket's "Series of Unfortunate Events" need never read the Beatrix Letters, but how they all the same, alter one's perceptions of the game.
I believe I have argued before, and quite vehemently, that no towns in XIII because "it's a race against time" or whatever is perhaps the thinnest defense for what is clearly a broken, unfinished product's lack of NPCs. It stands at odds with EVERY game in the series prior to it. I think people tend to think that this defense is meant to say that XIII is akin to Shadow of the Colossus, in which there are no NPCs and the heroes are utterly alone, save it be for the monsters. Yet one can observe from simply playing the two games why this comparison cannot hold: In SotC, there's no one and nothing anywhere. The game's world is desolate, and the player is meant to feel utterly alone, save for their companions. Had XIII taken place entirely on Gran Pulse, it would have worked, I suppose, for the characters to interact only with the dead, or for them to come across materials and information from sources which were not living beings. But XIII does not work that way. The characters walk through populated cities on multiple occasions. The game takes you to Eden, PalomPolom, Nautilus and Bhodum. In each of these places there are civilians you can sort of interact with. Sort of. The excuse I've seen launched in defense of this is that, as l'Cie, your party is therefor outcasts. Except that really, that makes no sense even in the game's context, since Cid Raines is a l'Cie and no one knows. If Snow didn't have a goddamn belt on his sleeve, it would cover his arm. Indeed, if ANYONE wore sleeves or full shirts, no one would ever notice that they were l'Cie, saving for Vanille, who'd need pants.
I just learned what a sinusoidal wave is! YAAAY!
My problem with LR is that the shift is beyond explanation to me. Having played both XIII and XIII-2 to completion, it really doesn't make sense. In XIII Lightning is an enemy of the Gods, working to break free of their tyranny. In XIII-2 she's allied with one. Now in XIII-3 she's like working for a different one who was the enemy of the one she'd just been working for. Plus XIII-2's sudden focus on Etro. In XIII you GO TO PADDRA and you scour the land between it and Oerba thoroughly and little mention of a Goddess is even made. The Analects talk of a whole pantheon that has since been forgotten. That's always bugged me. The FNC has some pretty original lore going for it, and the sudden focus on Etro has just made it into bland, generic JRPG white Goddess worship.
By "Have to" you mean "it really is the only way" correct? Because to my mind have jumped now countless occasions in which forum discussion of the plot of a game has helped me make sense of it, whether it needed it or not.
The three examples I have of this are 1)The Legend of Zelda, 2)999/VLR and 3)The Ace Attorney Series.
Now, for the sake of making clear what I think, none of the above REQUIRE you to make a thread, but there is much to be gained from discussing the plots which any one player might overlook. The Ace Attorney series is pretty expanded, and just the other day we had a good discussion over there about
the degree to which Godot was responsible for the events of Case 3-5.
Which is all I want to make certain here: Do we mean you cannot decipher a plot without an entire thread to explain the basic plot, or the background lore, or what? Because I think it is one thing for Magius and I to debate whether or not Type-0's plot means that Lindzei and Pulse are locked in a struggle to open Etro's Gate in all worlds involved in the FNC, and something else entirely when you have to have something to explain the clusterfuck that is FFXIII-2's ending.
I agree whole heartedly, but I was wondering what your thoughts are concerning in-game databases. In Tactics, Tactics Ogre, and dare I say Kingdom Hearts, I think they've been done well enough. It's supplemental material you don't need, but which can effect your view of the events of the game. Kind of like how fans of Lemony Snicket's "Series of Unfortunate Events" need never read the Beatrix Letters, but how they all the same, alter one's perceptions of the game.
I believe I have argued before, and quite vehemently, that no towns in XIII because "it's a race against time" or whatever is perhaps the thinnest defense for what is clearly a broken, unfinished product's lack of NPCs. It stands at odds with EVERY game in the series prior to it. I think people tend to think that this defense is meant to say that XIII is akin to Shadow of the Colossus, in which there are no NPCs and the heroes are utterly alone, save it be for the monsters. Yet one can observe from simply playing the two games why this comparison cannot hold: In SotC, there's no one and nothing anywhere. The game's world is desolate, and the player is meant to feel utterly alone, save for their companions. Had XIII taken place entirely on Gran Pulse, it would have worked, I suppose, for the characters to interact only with the dead, or for them to come across materials and information from sources which were not living beings. But XIII does not work that way. The characters walk through populated cities on multiple occasions. The game takes you to Eden, PalomPolom, Nautilus and Bhodum. In each of these places there are civilians you can sort of interact with. Sort of. The excuse I've seen launched in defense of this is that, as l'Cie, your party is therefor outcasts. Except that really, that makes no sense even in the game's context, since Cid Raines is a l'Cie and no one knows. If Snow didn't have a goddamn belt on his sleeve, it would cover his arm. Indeed, if ANYONE wore sleeves or full shirts, no one would ever notice that they were l'Cie, saving for Vanille, who'd need pants.
I just learned what a sinusoidal wave is! YAAAY!
My problem with LR is that the shift is beyond explanation to me. Having played both XIII and XIII-2 to completion, it really doesn't make sense. In XIII Lightning is an enemy of the Gods, working to break free of their tyranny. In XIII-2 she's allied with one. Now in XIII-3 she's like working for a different one who was the enemy of the one she'd just been working for. Plus XIII-2's sudden focus on Etro. In XIII you GO TO PADDRA and you scour the land between it and Oerba thoroughly and little mention of a Goddess is even made. The Analects talk of a whole pantheon that has since been forgotten. That's always bugged me. The FNC has some pretty original lore going for it, and the sudden focus on Etro has just made it into bland, generic JRPG white Goddess worship.
Meccanical
Member
That's what happens when someone rights a concept and let's someone else take off with it as if he was ever qualified to do so.
I wonder what it would have been like if Nojima wrote the damn thing himself.
Plot discussion is fine and sometimes there will be little things you'll miss in games but I will agree that if you have make a thread compiling everything that's not even in the game to make sense of the plot, then the game failed.
It's why I can't help but scoff at people trying to claim XIII does a better job at having a clearer plot than VIII. VIII does not rely on all these novels and other sources for information, it's all within the game.
It's why I can't help but scoff at people trying to claim XIII does a better job at having a clearer plot than VIII. VIII does not rely on all these novels and other sources for information, it's all within the game.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Well XV is supposed to be that. Which won't release ever until further notice.
Exactly.
People actually said that XIII's plot is clearer than VIII's? I don't remember VIII's ending requiring a second game to try and explain it.
Meccanical
Member
FFVIII made sense, it's just that the sense that it made was dubious at best.
But like I said, any beef I had with any previous FF disappeared after I played XIII.
But like I said, any beef I had with any previous FF disappeared after I played XIII.
I think we had a poster claiming it last page and I was discussing VIII's plot with another poster over PM's when he made a similar claim. I was trying to clear up some confusion on VIII since he apparently didn't understand any of it.
But yeah it was quite surprising to read someone say something like that, especially considering that I enjoyed XIII but acknowledge it's flaws.
But yeah it was quite surprising to read someone say something like that, especially considering that I enjoyed XIII but acknowledge it's flaws.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Have you ever noticed that most RPG's including FF among them always have protag's that supposedly have decent intelligence, part of me wishes that a character could come from a Barbarian tribe.
Sorry Gau doesn't count.
I'm more into "Proud Warrior Race" guy or someone who really pushes the whole "brute strength conquers all" motif.
Sorry Gau doesn't count.
I'm more into "Proud Warrior Race" guy or someone who really pushes the whole "brute strength conquers all" motif.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
First off, great posts, Schala and Corvo.
I'd have to say Schala means the latter. Without the novellas, the Ultimanias, the interviews, and other outside materials, it is impossible to fully understand what the fresh hell is going on. Answers to questions as simple as "why can only a few people use the Time Gates" are not found in the narrative. Answers as important as "Why did Lightning's personality change so much", "Why does Etro make the decisions she does", etc. are not found in the narrative. I'd be hard pressed to find a single reference to Bhunivelze outside of Hope naming Cocoon 2.0 after him (which is, you guessed it, said to have been learned "off screen" by the party in the Ultimania) and the secret DLC ending, yet the entirety of LR and understanding the motivations for some of the major players hinges upon knowing about him. The basic mythos is no where to be found in the games themselves.
I could go on and on about why this is bull (maybe later), but bottom line is that this is completely unacceptable.
Corvo, I'll raise you some. Lightning's brand is forever hidden under her shirt (even we the player never actually see it), Hope's is hidden under his glove, Snow just needs to lower that belt over her arm and it would fully cover his brand, Serah covered her's with a white ribbon, Vanille's is hidden by her skirt (she has to lift it up quite a bit for anyone to see), Sazh just needs to adjust his shirt to fully cover his half-covered brand, and Cid has no problem keeping his covered either. The only person who doesn't have their brand covered is Fang... and that's an easy fix. Wear a buck-mothering shirt!
Hell, the party on numerous occasions just strolls into heavily populated areas without being discovered (Sazh and Vanille in Nautilus; Snow and Hope is PalumPolom; everyone in Eden; Serah, Vanille, and Fang in Bodhum). Nobody realizes they are L'cie until they themselves announce it or until the military starts firing on them.
The excuse "They are L'cie so they are outcasts" is just that: An excuse. Serah goes about her daily life just fine until the military comes. Nobody realizes a thing. Sazh and Vanille attend a damn festival and go to a Chocobo park and, again, it isn't until the military comes that they are discovered. The brand is the only defining physical characteristic in which one can identify a L'cie, and 99% of the time the brands are easily hidden.
I'd have to say Schala means the latter. Without the novellas, the Ultimanias, the interviews, and other outside materials, it is impossible to fully understand what the fresh hell is going on. Answers to questions as simple as "why can only a few people use the Time Gates" are not found in the narrative. Answers as important as "Why did Lightning's personality change so much", "Why does Etro make the decisions she does", etc. are not found in the narrative. I'd be hard pressed to find a single reference to Bhunivelze outside of Hope naming Cocoon 2.0 after him (which is, you guessed it, said to have been learned "off screen" by the party in the Ultimania) and the secret DLC ending, yet the entirety of LR and understanding the motivations for some of the major players hinges upon knowing about him. The basic mythos is no where to be found in the games themselves.
I could go on and on about why this is bull (maybe later), but bottom line is that this is completely unacceptable.
Corvo, I'll raise you some. Lightning's brand is forever hidden under her shirt (even we the player never actually see it), Hope's is hidden under his glove, Snow just needs to lower that belt over her arm and it would fully cover his brand, Serah covered her's with a white ribbon, Vanille's is hidden by her skirt (she has to lift it up quite a bit for anyone to see), Sazh just needs to adjust his shirt to fully cover his half-covered brand, and Cid has no problem keeping his covered either. The only person who doesn't have their brand covered is Fang... and that's an easy fix. Wear a buck-mothering shirt!
Hell, the party on numerous occasions just strolls into heavily populated areas without being discovered (Sazh and Vanille in Nautilus; Snow and Hope is PalumPolom; everyone in Eden; Serah, Vanille, and Fang in Bodhum). Nobody realizes they are L'cie until they themselves announce it or until the military starts firing on them.
The excuse "They are L'cie so they are outcasts" is just that: An excuse. Serah goes about her daily life just fine until the military comes. Nobody realizes a thing. Sazh and Vanille attend a damn festival and go to a Chocobo park and, again, it isn't until the military comes that they are discovered. The brand is the only defining physical characteristic in which one can identify a L'cie, and 99% of the time the brands are easily hidden.
What I've noticed is that supposed genius characters are always dumbasses. Shulk? Repeats everything said to him in the form of a question. Hope? Probably the biggest idiot ever. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Embrace the dumb guy instead. Stupid dumb strong guys were the hero in FF5 and FF4.
Also have you played Fire Emblem 7? Lyndis, the best female character in the entire series is from a Proud Warrior Race, and one of her potential love interests (the one the game teases the most, in fact) is a big dude in badass armor who wields, yep, an AXE.
Serah's ribbon was dumb for being conspicuous. Having sleeves would've solved all her problems. Bhodum ain't Dalmasca, sister. Y'ain't got no reason for the pink mini skirt here.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Hope's sudden genius intellect that dwarfs even a full blown god was a goddamn ass pull. Being able to figure out how to turn on an old machine in XIII DOES NOT equate to creating planets, paradox weapons, time travel devices, etc (I've seen this argued).
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yeah genius's are kinda absent minded huh. While really dumb characters generally see through things or simply know better. And yes Blazing Sword was a good one and has the best lord. Hector.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
You cannot stop the darkness that is to come.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
The game shipped Ninian and Eliwood no matter how hard I tried to pair Lyndis and Eliwood, that basically I've just accepted that Lyn's canon love interests are The Avatar and Hector.
FUCK.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I'll respond to your post another day, Corvo. I have a project to finish off.
But haha, I can only imagine the amount of microtransactions for FF8. "Pay x amount of money for Ultima/Meltdown/Triple/Pain at the beginning of the game to junction to your stats!"
But haha, I can only imagine the amount of microtransactions for FF8. "Pay x amount of money for Ultima/Meltdown/Triple/Pain at the beginning of the game to junction to your stats!"
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's okay guys. FFVI isn't that good anyway. GILGAMESH wasn't even in the original.
Only $2.99 for 99x Ultimas, Meltdowns, or Triples!
Man, that would've been terrible.
Meccanical
Member
They can't possibly ruin FFVII more than they already did. An iOS announcement would be nothing.
Yeah, he just means the comp.
Crisis Core was great, even if Genesis is the worst character in the series.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Oh my god you guys weren't kidding when you said that Chapter 11 is the worst chapter in FF13. Hope just randomly wakes up and knows where to go, and his Eidolon appears just because.
wtf
At least Gran Pulse is an awesome world so far.
wtf
At least Gran Pulse is an awesome world so far.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Yeah, from a gameplay stand point, it's a breath of fresh air (being a complete disconnect aside). Story wise, it's the point where the story drops off the face of the Earth.
Yeah from a gameplay stand point Chapter 11 is my favorite part of the game. From a story standpoint Chapter 11 is where Toriyama fucked Nojima's mom and gained superiority in the tribe.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
edit: wrong ff thread hah
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Does the game explain how Hope knew that Fang and Vanille lived in Oerba? I don't remember them even mentioning it.
Also, Hope's Eidolon just doesn't make sense, at this point in the story he's supposed to feel like he's useful and not a drag for the whole party. It's terrible that he reverts just for his god damn Eidolon, his Eidolon was supposed to appear when he was with Snow.
wtf
Also, Hope's Eidolon just doesn't make sense, at this point in the story he's supposed to feel like he's useful and not a drag for the whole party. It's terrible that he reverts just for his god damn Eidolon, his Eidolon was supposed to appear when he was with Snow.
wtf
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
It's never explained.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Whatever happened to FF VIII HD for PC?
Nothing because it's Square. It probably won't even get released. HAHAHHAHAHAHA.....
STAHP. You're killing me.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I've been wondering this since I was in middle school...has anyone ever beat FFVIII "normally"? Like without using Aura or limits breaks with ridiculous junctioned magic?
I remember the strategy guide had all these fancy suggestions like "Use Cerberus so your healer can cast on the entire party." or "Start off the fight with Doomtrain or Meltdown." but I never had to do any of that. It seems like it would be fun to play the game without junctioning or drawing, is that viable?
I remember the strategy guide had all these fancy suggestions like "Use Cerberus so your healer can cast on the entire party." or "Start off the fight with Doomtrain or Meltdown." but I never had to do any of that. It seems like it would be fun to play the game without junctioning or drawing, is that viable?