Erm.. if you're talking about duodecium then Sephiroth's sitting comfortably at the top tier list due to his shadow flare's ridiculous cooldown. Onion Knight also at a high tier due to his speed that allow him to mind games his opponent. The worst characters in Duodecium are Bartz/Laguna/CoD.
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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Erm.. if you're talking about duodecium then Sephiroth's sitting comfortably at the top tier list due to his shadow flare's ridiculous cooldown. Onion Knight also at a high tier due to his speed that allow him to mind games his opponent. The worst characters in Duodecium are Bartz/Laguna/CoD.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
That means little. What one cannot guard can simply be dodged.
Tournaments that are assist heavy are not applicable. Since they are simply safe attacks to build assists which devolve into essentially a choreographed bum rush strategy.
This is judging a character only given their own tools to fight with, as stated before assists are game-breaking and serve as an external variable.
Let me give a senario: Let say we have a Zidane just dancing around an Exdeath. What can he do? Swift attack is too fast to block on reaction and if you randomly throw out a block you will get punish by him and lose Hp. Let say you dodge then he will just chase you to dodge punish you. In that stage, you can cover your dodge will your block but your opponent know this, he can use a Hp attack which cannot be Omniblock at close range without knowing before hand - since Omniblock have a slower blocking frame than his other block move - or your opponent can simply choose to do nothing and let you whiff your block then punish you. You see there are many option and Exdeath must consider in his mind games.
Regarding assist, you do know that the reason why Exdeath is so broken is DUE to assist right? Without them, characters like Tifa, who can feint Hp attack, have a much easier time against Exdeath.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
You forget that any good ExDeath player will know how every possible move performs(when does it start and how much cooldown it has) along with what ExDeath's different moves cooldown frames are and judge accordingly, along with Maelstrom baiting tactics along with key blocks to choose depending on your opponent's move library.
It's all a matter of learning what that human player does. The true battle against ExDeath is one of the mind.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
That's... kinda my point. Even if the Exdeath know every move of by heart, he still have to rely on mind games. That's when characters with safe pokes like Squall, Prishe, Zidane, Firion's Straight Arrow, Lightning etc.... outshine him because they can make an Exdeath player nervous by just being near and thus will cause his to make mistake and be punish for them.
Finally, I'll just say that Exdeath's Maelstorm can be easily block by Ultimecia' Knight Lance, Squall's Revolver Drive and Sephiroth's Hell Gates. Just saying.
Nah, Just pick a small stage > Set Night Glow to [] > random press [] at some point> win.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
This is true.
DissidiaForums' elitism is on the march and nothing shall stop it...!
Kidding aside, here is the tier list Sougo is talking about: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46186721&postcount=629
Besides, Sougo, welcome to the backroom.
(love how your post-count is stuck at 13 btw)
You got it. GAF is the new, fresh and ultimately more friendly Dissidia backroom; implying that the last thing I want for the in-coming Dissidia contingent of GAF is to become DissidiaForums 2.0. We're five at it so far, and five are more to come, waiting for their account to get approved to kick in: Mogstache, LXD92, Cherub, TKG09 and Djqubi.
Chances are, Kagari doesn't put as much stock into the whole thing as I do (or perhaps we do? I don't know), but her approval for the project meant a lot to me. In that respect, I don't want to deceive her trust, that the "bridge" we've set up in place between both communities turns out to be nothing but a breach for more drama on GAF. I know I've moved on already, and I hope the proposal for an affiliation with DF will not generate more drama crap. Besides, you won't see me being the same guy here, for I will remain less anxious.
Just a word of "warning"; you get the point. I thought your posts were gently worded and I agreed with most of what you said.
Kidding aside, here is the tier list Sougo is talking about: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46186721&postcount=629
Besides, Sougo, welcome to the backroom.
(love how your post-count is stuck at 13 btw)
You got it. GAF is the new, fresh and ultimately more friendly Dissidia backroom; implying that the last thing I want for the in-coming Dissidia contingent of GAF is to become DissidiaForums 2.0. We're five at it so far, and five are more to come, waiting for their account to get approved to kick in: Mogstache, LXD92, Cherub, TKG09 and Djqubi.
Chances are, Kagari doesn't put as much stock into the whole thing as I do (or perhaps we do? I don't know), but her approval for the project meant a lot to me. In that respect, I don't want to deceive her trust, that the "bridge" we've set up in place between both communities turns out to be nothing but a breach for more drama on GAF. I know I've moved on already, and I hope the proposal for an affiliation with DF will not generate more drama crap. Besides, you won't see me being the same guy here, for I will remain less anxious.
Just a word of "warning"; you get the point. I thought your posts were gently worded and I agreed with most of what you said.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
ExDeath isn't for everyone.
@Narolf: I still think what they did was absolutely wrong and the incorrect way to go about things.
DissidiaForums' elitism is on the march and nothing shall stop it...!
Kidding aside, here is the tier list Sougo is talking about: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46186721&postcount=629
Besides, Sougo, welcome to the backroom.
(love how your post-count is stuck at 13 btw)
You got it: GAF is the new, fresh and ultimately more friendly backroom; implying that the last thing I want for the in-coming Dissidia contingent of GAF is to become DissidiaForums 2.0. We're five at it so far, and five are more to come, waiting for their account to get approved to kick in: Mogstache, LXD92, Cherub, TKG09 and Djqubi.
Chances are, Kagari doesn't put as much stock into the whole thing as I do (or perhaps we do? I don't know), but her approval for the project meant a lot to me. In that respect, I don't want to deceive her trust, that the "bridge" we've set up in place between both communities turns out to be nothing but a breach for more drama on GAF. I know I've moved on already, and I hope the proposal for an affiliation with DF will not generate more drama crap. Besides, you won't see me being the same guy here, for I'll remain less anxious.
Just a word of "warning"; you get the point. I thought your posts were gently worded and I agreed with most of what you said.
Relax Narolf
I have no intention of insulting anyone online especially when it comes to subject that I do not consider myself to be an expert in like DDFF.
Tizoc
Member
Final Fantasy XIII progress report #2
Just made it to the part in Prologue 2 where Light and co. split up.
I improved their stats once they've reached 600 CP each. When I played Snow's Eidolon battle, I forgot to upgrade his stats, but managed to complete this battle without losing.
ATM controlling Light and Hope, I'll improve their stats once they both have 900 CP.
Also it took me 1 hour to go from post Anima Battle to reaching the Machine Graveyard/Junkyard place. So far so good~
Just made it to the part in Prologue 2 where Light and co. split up.
I improved their stats once they've reached 600 CP each. When I played Snow's Eidolon battle, I forgot to upgrade his stats, but managed to complete this battle without losing.
ATM controlling Light and Hope, I'll improve their stats once they both have 900 CP.
Also it took me 1 hour to go from post Anima Battle to reaching the Machine Graveyard/Junkyard place. So far so good~
Relax Narolf
I don't think you were insulting at all. My point was more along the lines of "bear in mind not everyone knows Dissidia in and out". You may be a spectator, you remain very knowledgeable about the game.
But yeah, I remain worried about Mass' reaction when he will get to see DissidiaGAF into motion while I shoot him an email for the affiliation. And if he freaks out, refuses the affiliation because he thinks I'm leeching his forum... I don't think you'll see me posting on DF ever again, as presumptuous as I may transpire here. Think I will ask him to make my ban permanent should that happen.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Relax Narolf
And I am no expert. Just a passionate ExDeath user.
He shall learn it all leans upon the community of the forum, and not it's administrator. An administrator merely is supposed to uphold the rules and see they are followed with leniency, not a forum dictatorship.
And I give my respect to any serious Exdeath user. I caught a glimpse of the effort you need to use him probably when I tried to pick him up a while ago. That's why I have less problem with people 'tier-whoring' with him than characters like Ultimecia or Sephiroth due to the serious amount of commitment you need for him.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I'm more primitive in how I use him.
I prefer the blocking aspect. As opposed to the assist version of playing him.
And I like using Black Hole as opposed to RP regardless of how useful it is. But I can see why it is used.
idlethreats
Member
It really does, even if you take the matter between legal terms. The thing is, Mass Zero doesn't even know about those. It's that DF used to have a splinter site in the same vein as GAF's TB and OA, the kind of forum wherein the likes of Himuro, Rahxephon91 and Costanza found redemption (sup' folks; no need to photo-shop my picture, someone already beat you to it). NeoGAF's digital limbo, in a word.
When Mass Zero found out about DF's splinter forum in September 2010 (site was up and running ever since July of that year), he literally freaked out and was like "ALL THE MATERIAL THAT HAS BEEN POSTED ON DF BELONGS TO ME AND TO ME ONLY!" to the guys. I'm afraid he reacts the same way when I propose the affiliation.
Even then, his plea would make no sense whatsoever, apart from making him transpire as a child clinging to his toy.
By registering an account at NeoGAF.com and participating (including but not limited to submitting posts or private messages on NeoGAF.com), you hereby grant NeoGAF LLC and our licensees, distributors, agents, representatives and other authorized users, a perpetual, non-exclusive, irrevocable, fully-paid, royalty-free, sub-licensable and transferable (in whole or part) worldwide license under all copyrights, trademarks, patents, trade secrets, privacy and publicity rights and other intellectual property rights you own or control to use, reproduce, transmit, display, exhibit, distribute, index, comment on, modify, create derivative works based upon, perform and otherwise exploit the messages posted or private messages sent on NeoGAF.com, in whole or in part, in all media formats and channels now known or hereafter devised, for any and all purposes including entertainment, news, advertising, promotional, marketing, publicity, trade or commercial purposes, all without further notice to you, with or without attribution, and without the requirement of any permission from or payment to you or to any other person or entity.
Part in bold is extremely important. Here is how it works in terms of strict intellectual properties.
~> Floran Galano (aka Narolf) owns DissidiaGAF, LR : Aim To Win along with all future events as the one who purchased the domain.
~> Erren Van Duine (aka Kagari) co-owns DissidiaGAF, LR : Aim to Win along with all future events as the NeoGAF's staff representative and third-party "diplomat".
~> Tyler Malka (aka EviLore) hosts the whole and "co-co"-owns it in that respect as the owner of NeoGAF.
~> All material posted in the thread belongs to their respective posters (very poorly worded but you get the point).
In a word, EviLore will "have" more intellectual property on my material (the tier list, the respective guides for Adhoc Party, Kai and Pro Online and LR : Aim To Win) than Mass Zero as soon as the thread is up and running.
Now, I didn't forget the material I'm "borrowing" from third-parties is exempt to that rule; Ujhbn's charts for instance. Legally speaking, Ujhbn has every right to come forth at me and say "no, I don't want you to re-host my material on DissidiaGAF". I don't think he would ever do that, but let's assume he does for a second. His charts may be very informative, they are open to a simple flaw: he used 60FPS as the unit for frames, even though Dissidia runs at 30FPS. I will just have to do the conversion and remake the charts to bypass the copyright.
About sums it up.
Professor Beef
Banned
All of this stuff is so interesting. At the very least, it's making me want to fire up AdHoc Party again for the first time in months.
And Shan is SO AWFUL.
And Shan is SO AWFUL.
Grrr.. Dem fighting words!! (Not that I main Shan or anything but I've seen what she can do and it frightens me.)
Professor Beef
Banned
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
You mean Duodecim?
Yeah I was mostly talking about the original, as per the last page, I never got into Duodecim as much as vanilla Dissidia due to the over-whelming presence of assists and the EX Mode nerf. Also Lightning fatigue, at the time.
No way, nothing beats the feel of seeing Shantoto's tiny body fly across the arena from being struck by the backside of a hand roughly the same size as her whole being.
But Glare Hand . . .
Also, I wish Black Fang were faster. It'd be so much more broken.
I only say it because I know what she can do since I used to main her.
Rejoice my friend! Here's a glimpse of her potential:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAtbzOHww9E
Bah! Duodecium, Duodecim... Square and their Latin fetishes.
I have the opposite experience as you. Never got into DFF since it was ridiculous broken but finding my self enjoying DDFF heck of alot. I know there's complaints about assist but I believe that they're an integral part of DDFF (Some characters simply couldn't work without them) and if you can embrace it, DDFF is a blast to play.
Glare Hand is awesome. Gotta give you that.
Professor Beef
Banned
Loving the music selection, hahaha.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Count me as surprised there is a tournament scene for this game...but maybe I should be! Now I feel like watching a bunch of these videos, darnit.
Professor Beef
Banned
I've been posting the uploads from the Dissidia Forums' Youtube channel in the Fighting Games Weekly thread. There's some good stuff in those videos.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I'll be checking them out then!
Knew before I clicked that it was gonna be a SOK video. I was watching tournament that Chaos was (trying to) hosting the other day in the grand finals between him and Seifer. Makes me wish I'd gotten deeper into the game.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I feel the same way with a 4x Vacuum Wave>Black Hole>Holy>Maelstrom>Neo Almagest
Yep Sok is just that godly. Also I think you meant Cipher not Seifer
Eh, they both sound the same and he uses a Persona name on his Duodecim handle. :V
Decided to offer me a "little" present as a reward after going through such long catharsis, fueled by positive and negative emotions altogether, but also to mark the beginning of my life-time as a GAFfer, which is surely going to be a long road.
Hi there, Beef!
Calling you out now because I've been reading your posts about Dissidia here and over at SRK for a long time. I just want you to know that I've always shared your sentiment, but it's only recently that I was able to provide a decent response to the following problematic.
Why hasn't Dissidia received the attention it deserved?
It's 50/50.
On the one hand, Dissidia's very nature prevents it for being taken seriously. It hasn't been marketed as a competitive game, it isn't designed for competitive play and it ultimately remains boring to watch as such, and for more than just assists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvnJ1yBO6E0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFue1SKCkak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nozPe-kXPaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFue1SKCkak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nozPe-kXPaw
All those matches have been played under a rule-set that limits the assist-usage to two bars. As you can see, it resulted in unnecessarily lengthening the matches' duration as well as bastardizing their respective match-ups. Contrary to popular belief, removing/hindering assists does not balance the game. It only increases the amount of non-risks taking in a game that heavily relies on defense already.
I could go on and go on about what is wrong in Dissidia and how that could be improved...
http://dissidiaforums.com/showthrea...kes-Dissidia-3&p=397107&viewfull=1#post397107
http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?296-Promotions!&p=402613&viewfull=1#post402613
http://dissidiaforums.com/showthread.php?296-Promotions!&p=402613&viewfull=1#post402613
...if I hadn't made those two write-ups over at DF already.
Similarly to Brawl, this game has the potential to last for five years, at the very least.
Now we're in 2013 and still having people that discover Dissidia has a community supporting it... which brings me to the other half: DissidiaForums.
The Dissidia community isn't a bunch of elitist spoiled brats who ego-trip over their skill at a PSP game. I've spent enough time monitoring them to figure (got promoted over at DF in February 2011, got revoked three weeks ago). Surely that's how they transpire as a collective, but they really aren't once you reach their true selves underneath the surface, once you get to meet them over at #DDFFCasual rather than DissidiaForums. DissidiaForums is indeed an obnoxious pile of garbage. It may fill the bill as a (disorganized) reference for everything related to Dissidia, it remains a wasted potential overall.
I don't have to sum up the recent drama to make you understand my stance. Here are two fresh, distinct and clean-cut examples to back it.
Yea for a few months I've been lurking the forums and watching dissidia replays. I've played on ahp often with randoms. Some of them probably go on DF but there are others I played often who doesn't even like the forums let alone have an account here :/
Luna is a newcomer that joined a few days ago and garnered a lot of attention for being attractive (just realized she removed her picture).
APZoneRunner is an old-timer GAF member, and one of my two bosses.
I agreed with everything he said in his article, but I don't aim at discussing the core of his message itself, rather I want to tackle something that "startled" me once I finished the read: at no time did he bring up DissidiaForums to the table, even though the traffic of most forums he mentioned is far from being as good as DF's. It's impossible he didn't know about DF for he lurks that FGW thread you told us about, Beef.
DissidiaForums has such terrible reputation because of the staff who runs it and, most importantly, because of its owner and main administrator. I could've expanded on that point through several walls of texts, but that would make me rehash everything I've already said over at DF. The extent of their cynicism actually became apparent to me three weeks ago, when one of them attempted to snag me for one last time by using Kagari as a "target" while I was discussing with folks over at #DDFFCasual.
For too long I've had folks telling me how they took no pride in being part of DF, but ultimately stayed there since there was no better place for this kind of material/events. Way too long.
This is over.
And after many evenings aimlessly wandering under the moonlight, now is the time to get back into action, as a last stand, as a last fight.
See you guys later.
Professor Beef
Banned
...holy shit. Narolf is some kinda good guy.
I've never actually heard anything bad about Dissidia Forums, but truthfully I never spent a whole lot of time there. The people I've played online (RDFMASTER, Rhybo, and ShineThatLight) all seemed to be good folk, though.
I've never actually heard anything bad about Dissidia Forums, but truthfully I never spent a whole lot of time there. The people I've played online (RDFMASTER, Rhybo, and ShineThatLight) all seemed to be good folk, though.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Wow, this is some good discussion! I'm pleasantly surprised to pop in here to see what's been going on!
I have to say that all of this conversation is really exciting and I'm sad to say that I can't really join in or offer much input because I haven't poured as many hours into Dissidia/Duodecim as the rest of you (especially in terms of Ad-hoc/MP--I haven't seen my fellow Dissidia players in two years).
I've never been that great at fighters at all (yeah... I'm good at Tales games but I'm terrible at fighters because I don't get a lot of practice to keep up), but I feel like I got a proper grasp of Dissidia because it's more ARPG-based.
I feel that the series could be marketed as a competitive game provided that the scene has its own Daigo Umehara or MC or Mvp that's nice to watch. I mean, I get an incredible thrill out of watching Starcraft II tournaments, and Dissidia just happens to be more involved and more cinematic, akin to an action game. Thus I don't think that matches and a general tournament would be boring to watch and commentate at all.
Going by some of your posts and Beef's posts in the FG Weekly thread (yes, Beef... I read threads that I rarely post in </Skinner>), I feel like the game would be a remarkable addition to competitive games that are easy to get into and watch. It sounds exciting.
I have to say that all of this conversation is really exciting and I'm sad to say that I can't really join in or offer much input because I haven't poured as many hours into Dissidia/Duodecim as the rest of you (especially in terms of Ad-hoc/MP--I haven't seen my fellow Dissidia players in two years).
I've never been that great at fighters at all (yeah... I'm good at Tales games but I'm terrible at fighters because I don't get a lot of practice to keep up), but I feel like I got a proper grasp of Dissidia because it's more ARPG-based.
Sok video? Sok video.
Has Square Enix Members in any region promoted Dissidia tournaments in any fashion, though? That would certainly help promote its multiplayer aspect. A lot of people I know who pick it up just engage in SP/campaign, and rarely play local multi.Narolf said:
I feel that the series could be marketed as a competitive game provided that the scene has its own Daigo Umehara or MC or Mvp that's nice to watch. I mean, I get an incredible thrill out of watching Starcraft II tournaments, and Dissidia just happens to be more involved and more cinematic, akin to an action game. Thus I don't think that matches and a general tournament would be boring to watch and commentate at all.
Going by some of your posts and Beef's posts in the FG Weekly thread (yes, Beef... I read threads that I rarely post in </Skinner>), I feel like the game would be a remarkable addition to competitive games that are easy to get into and watch. It sounds exciting.
Professor Beef
Banned
There was a Square-sponsored (or hosted, can't remember much except that Square had their hands in it) tournament in Japan a few months back. The main problem with Dissidia tournaments, at least with them being in the public eye like on streams, is that it's hard to actually stream the game in general since not a lot of people have the cables to connect the PSP to streaming equipment. You could always do it the easy way and connect with a PS3 and a PSP Go...but who really has a PSP Go anymore?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Dissidia Modding was like my main point of interest being there.
When I went the first time I got the "You are playing your character wrong" attitude.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Could be like MLG/GOM/other SC2 tournaments where they just switch between player feeds.
But Dissidia's faster than SC2 so that wouldn't work out... :/
Ohhhh, yeah that's true. Unfortunate.
Pointing the camera at a PSP wouldn't be the best thing ever.
idlethreats
Member
As someone who loved the hell out of Dissidia (~400 hours between the two) but has zero interest in competitive gaming, this is all sort of fascinating. O_O
Wow, this is some good discussion! I'm pleasantly surprised to pop in here to see what's been going on!
I have to say that all of this conversation is really exciting and I'm sad to say that I can't really join in or offer much input because I haven't poured as many hours into Dissidia/Duodecim as the rest of you (especially in terms of Ad-hoc/MP--I haven't seen my fellow Dissidia players in two years).
I've never been that great at fighters at all (yeah... I'm good at Tales games but I'm terrible at fighters because I don't get a lot of practice to keep up), but I feel like I got a proper grasp of Dissidia because it's more ARPG-based.
Yep. I have never got into any fighter because I never get any decent at them but finding myself spending a ridiculous amount of time on DFF/DDFF. The good thing about DDFF is that all the move is map to one button so I don't have to memorise how to pull of combos and just focus on my timing and spacing.
What more can I say about Sok? I can't have people saying Shantoto is awful with him running around.
And to prove that point, there are already some streams of DDFF's (http://www.twitch.tv/chaosmuramasa/b/361367395) weekend tournament where both the tournament and commentary are both amazing to watch and hear.
Meccanical
Member
That's why I never bothered with Emerald and Ruby weapon.
Then again apparently I am a scrub at FF7 because I have seen some people do crazy stuff with the materia system that I never even thought about.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Oh so that's where the bumrush strategies in later games came from.
I tried using Gravity/Quadra/HPAbsorb/MpAbsorb/Mime, but when the goddamn boss gets 4 turns in a row, it doesn't matter how strong you are, because for hits of 3k+ WILL kill you.
Yes, this is why newly added bosses tend to suck, too. Frankly, of the bosses added to the GBA games, only Kaiser Dragon is any good, because in the Kaiser fight you don't HAVE to rely on Quick-Ultima spam. Against Emerald if you don't spam KotR or Hero Drink+lvl4 Limit breaks, go home because you're not going to win.
All of this comes to a head in KHBBS's ridiculous Mysterious Figure fight.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Shinryu from V is up there. Either you steal a bunch of special weapons from the Crystal Dragons and use Jump over and over or...you pack a bunch of Coral Rings and then just hit him really hard and hope he keels over in two turns.
At least Ruby has an exploit you can use against him if you want to do it the hard and long way (Which I did and I don't reccomend anyone else doing it)
At least Ruby has an exploit you can use against him if you want to do it the hard and long way (Which I did and I don't reccomend anyone else doing it)