Support NeoGAF

[The Xtortionist]

Let's be real, a huge percentage of people in this thread either skipped by or straight up hated FF12 back then, but now we're talking about it being a misunderstood gem etc etc.

They'll make a 13 remaster and this OT for that game will be FULL of people talking about how much they appreciate it and are enjoying it, i guarantee. You could probably trace their post history to the original release and talking about how it's the worst thing ever.

Zodiac's fast forward redeems XII to unimaginable levels. The original game was a slog in every sense of the word. I'd probably put XIII over vanilla XII, and not because I prefer any of the systems in XIII. I like XII's gameplay a lot, but the fact is that most of the fights can be completely "simulated" (letting gambits do 100% of the work against trash mobs and weaker bosses), and having no option to skip it was just terrible. But now I can slap on 2x or 4x speed to get through the trash in the blink of an eye, and lower it back to normal speed for challenging fights where manual input is necessary. It makes the game 10x...no, 100x better than the original. It's a truly shocking improvement.

Jobs are also cool. I actually have some individualized gambits on characters instead of having basically the same setup on everyone due to a shared skill pool. Wish some of the stronger techniques were doled out a bit earlier in the game so my physical attackers have more to do, but it's whatever. But I guess I could always run a party that's heavier on spellcasters.

Vanilla XII was borderline trash tier for me just due to how long it took to do damn near anything in that game. I was down with nearly everything in vanilla XII on paper (barring the universal license board), but the execution was completely awry. Zodiac Age (well, IZJS, but whatever) is one of the strongest refinements I've seen an existing game receive.

Anyway, there's nothing practical that can be done to a XIII remaster that would change opinion like that. Maybe if story, scenario, and level design were completely reworked, but that's not happening.

Nope. They do gain License points though, so if they drag behind a few levels it's not a huge issue, since equipment and licenses can make a huge difference. (There's also an accessory that doubles your exp gain, so if you get one of those it can help people catch up)
...It's when you're at endgame and they're level 20 whilst everyone else is level 50 that it becomes an issue. Not that I'd know.

Yep. Equipment is huuuuge in XII. Good equipment and licenses can make almost any character playable. The game can beaten at level 1.

 

[Lightning]

Keeping trial loot must be a glitch. I've waited so long for this game, I ain't going to ruin it by making it more easier than it already is.

 

[Bluenoser]

A few newb questions:

• How do you heal quickly post-battle? Set a gambit?
• Speaking of gambits, I have no idea what I'm doing with those. Any common setups I should use? Can I have one setup for a boss and another for trash mobs?
• Does MP regen just from walking around? My casters seem to run out pretty quick, any tips for MP conservation?
• Do you cycle characters in and out to spread XP gains?

Played almost all the FF's, but somehow missed 12. I was always waiting for a version like this, and the 2x and 4x speed are amazing.

Other questions already answered, but for MP issues:

1_Walking around. You'll notice a passive MP regen as you move. It's slow but it helps.
2_Licenses - your mages (and even some non-mages) have access to licenses on the board that help conserve MP

• Headsman - gain MP when you defeat foes - I believe it has to be the mage that delivers the killing blow for this to work, but its great for AOE black magics like Aero or Fira so you can take down groups and get all your MP back.
• Channeling - You can get up to 3 of these, and each reduces MP cost by 10% (so perma-30% reduction, which is sweet)
• Martyr - gain MP when you are attacked. Pretty self explanatory - take damage, receive MP.
• Inquisitor /Warmage - gain MP by attacking with physical/magic - the best way to get back MP
• Charge - this is actually a technik that you have to buy in a shop, then unlock the license. Use it to get a % based chance to restore some MP. I tend to set it up like "Self: MP < 20%" -> Charge

3_Save crystals. So many people don't realize they restore full health and MP as well as save. Don't forget that they also break chains, so don't use them if you are trying to build a chain for gil/rare drops.
4_Meds - ethers and elixirs are there if you need them I suppose, although you should rarely need them.

Smart gambit management is really key. Once you get further into the game, MP issues aren't as bad as the beginning.

Good luck.

 

[aravuus]

Keeping trial loot must be a glitch. I've waited so long for this game, I ain't going to ruin it by making it more easier than it already is.

It was changed from IZJS in which, as far as I know, you don't keep the loot from Trials. It's definitely intentional.

 

[potatohead]

Did vaan always have these hair physics when turning sharply?

Yes

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Any ideas why gil snapper isn't showing? I made the bridge and it's raining but he's a no show in 5 zoning attempts

 

[Ourobolus]

Any ideas why gil snapper isn't showing? I made the bridge and it's raining but he's a no show in 5 zoning attempts

It's gotta be basically a torrential downpour. Eventually it'll happen, just keep zoning.

 

[kromeo]

Any ideas why gil snapper isn't showing? I made the bridge and it's raining but he's a no show in 5 zoning attempts

I think I remember it needing to be heavy rain or something

 

[jackal27]

I'm still curious, what are the benefits/disadvantages of making someone a mage early on vs. later as their 2nd job??

Still trying to decide if Fran should be an Archer or Red Mage first.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I'm still curious, what are the benefits/disadvantages of making someone a mage early on vs. later as their 2nd job??

Still trying to decide if Fran should be an Archer or Red Mage first.

You'll have less effective magic in the early game, and there aren't really any flyers early game that demand offensive magic. I only assigned a white mage before unlocking second jobs and it worked out fine.

 

[Niks]

Keeping trial loot must be a glitch. I've waited so long for this game, I ain't going to ruin it by making it more easier than it already is.

Same, I just don't see the appeal of breaking the game early in the game... but I'm glad it's optional, and it's there for those who like that kind of approach.

 

[mullet2000]

I'm still curious, what are the benefits/disadvantages of making someone a mage early on vs. later as their 2nd job??

Still trying to decide if Fran should be an Archer or Red Mage first.

It seems like the mages don't have much utility prior to getting to the unlock point for the 2nd job, anyway.

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

Keeping trial loot must be a glitch. I've waited so long for this game, I ain't going to ruin it by making it more easier than it already is.

Apparently even the official guide mentions you being able to carry over anything into the main game, so nah, it's intentional.

 

[Muffdraul]

Let's be real, a huge percentage of people in this thread either skipped by or straight up hated FF12 back then, but now we're talking about it being a misunderstood gem etc etc.

Same will happen with 13.

If this happens, I'll eat my hat. XII was always a misunderstood masterpiece that had real issues, glaring flaws with the story and characters not being up to FF's historical high watermark standards. While on the other hand, XIII was just a bloody fucking train wreck that at least had a good original battle system and sweet graphics. It's not the same situation, it's not part of some stupid cycle.

 

[Lights and Waves]

The fast forward feature kinda breaks the game in that it makes it so easy to grind your characters. I fucking love it.

 

[The Xtortionist]

The fast forward feature kinda breaks the game in that it makes it so easy to grind your characters. I fucking love it.

skeleton bridge didn't stand a fucking chance

 

[Auto_aim1]

The fast forward feature kinda breaks the game in that it makes it so easy to grind your characters. I fucking love it.

Me too. It's fun to go through boring dungeons at 2x speed.

Also I'm loving the story this time around.

 

[WolfeTone]

Enjoying the game a lot so far. I'm currently in the Sandsea.

Although I haven't unlocked the second jobs yet, the team I'm planning is:

Vaan - Shikari / Foebreaker
Penelo - Monk / Black Mage
Fran - White Mage /Machinist
Balthier - Uhlan / Time Mage
Basch - Bushi / Knight
Ashe - Red Mage / Archer

This combination is working well for me so far. Bushi is very powerful with katanas and early Swiftness unlocks for extra speeds. White Mage has very low HP at the moment so I'm hoping the second class unlock gives access to more HP up nodes on the License Board.

I was a fan of the original game, although disappointed by the relatively poor story in the second half. The new job system is the main appeal here and I'm loving the 2x and 4x speed.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Me too. It's fun to go through boring dungeons at 2x speed.

Yeah, Raithwall's tomb maybe took 10-15 minutes at 2x speed. Hated that area in vanilla.

Biggest winner is the Sandsea(s). Such a fucking grind in the original version, but I prolly blasted through both in like 15 minutes with 4x speed. Was showing the game to an acquaintance through share play and when the hour timer expired I said "you just watched four hours of the original version" and they got it.

 

[Einhandr]

Keeping trial loot must be a glitch. I've waited so long for this game, I ain't going to ruin it by making it more easier than it already is.

SE was very coy about trial mode before release. Even outlets that had previews were very coy when asked about carrying over XP, LP and items. This was definitely intentional and they wanted it to be a surprise.

 

[Spukc]

Enjoying the game a lot so far. I'm currently in the Sandsea.

Although I haven't unlocked the second jobs yet, the team I'm planning is:

Vaan - Shikari / Foebreaker
Penelo - Monk / Black Mage
Fran - White Mage /Machinist
Balthier - Uhlan / Time Mage
Basch - Bushi / Knight
Ashe - Red Mage / Archer

This combination is working well for me so far. Bushi is very powerful with katanas and early Swiftness unlocks for extra speeds. White Mage has very low HP at the moment so I'm hoping the second class unlock gives access to more HP up nodes on the License Board.

I was a fan of the original game, although disappointed by the relatively poor story in the second half. The new job system is the main appeal here and I'm loving the 2x and 4x speed.

is this a great combination ?
i remember being a useful gamefaqs thread also

 

[kromeo]

is this a great combination ?
i remember being a useful gamefaqs thread also

Those are pretty much the default recommended combos

 

[The Xtortionist]

is this a great combination ?
i remember being a useful gamefaqs thread also

Yes, it's listed as possibly the strongest combination that limits you to using each job once.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/191202-final-fantasy-xii-the-zodiac-age/75477310

 

[aravuus]

The fast forward feature kinda breaks the game in that it makes it so easy to grind your characters. I fucking love it.

It's fucking fantastic

Being able to fast-forward games is one of the main reasons I nowadays like playing on an emulator more than the original console, along with higher resolutions, obviously. Emulator unfortunately speeds up everything of course, audio included.

 

[mullet2000]

Yeah fast forward is a godsend.

I played the original Xenoblade on Dolphin with fast forward and it made it impossible to go back to Xenoblade Chronicles X afterward.

 

[Aeana]

I'm sure it's been linked, but there's a spreadsheet out there that lets you change up job combinations and see all of the licenses you'll get for each.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...vC5yipu9Yfh0IZ6YE-mh_e59g/edit#gid=1059552339

You'll have to copy it to your own Google Drive to start editing.

 

[Spukc]

Those are pretty much the default recommended combos

Yeah, sure:

Vaan: Shikari/Foebreaker
Penelo: White Mage/Machinist
Balthier: Time Mage/Uhlan
Fran: Archer/Red Mage
Basch: Knight/Bushi
Ashe: Monk/Black Mage

Since I heard Fran is the worst with bows as well (maybe due to her attack animation length? I'm not sure as to what the actual reason is), technically the way to optimize this would be to swap Fran and Balthier's jobs, but Balthier looked too good with a crossbow for me to pass that up.

so this is worse ?
i am a little paranoid about starting wrong,
that whole missing item thing in ff12 still hurst

 

[MechaX]

Enjoying the game a lot so far. I'm currently in the Sandsea.

Although I haven't unlocked the second jobs yet, the team I'm planning is:

Vaan - Shikari / Foebreaker
Penelo - Monk / Black Mage
Fran - White Mage /Machinist
Balthier - Uhlan / Time Mage
Basch - Bushi / Knight
Ashe - Red Mage / Archer

This combination is working well for me so far. Bushi is very powerful with katanas and early Swiftness unlocks for extra speeds. White Mage has very low HP at the moment so I'm hoping the second class unlock gives access to more HP up nodes on the License Board.

I was a fan of the original game, although disappointed by the relatively poor story in the second half. The new job system is the main appeal here and I'm loving the 2x and 4x speed.

Switch Penelo and Ashe and you have my team down exactly.

Balthier is not half bad looking with a lance, and after thinking about it more, I could see Ashe more as a black mage than anything else.

Dunno how the gun suits Fran yet from a visual standpoint yet.

 

[kromeo]

so this is worse ?
i am a little paranoid about starting wrong,
that whole missing item thing in ff12 still hurst

No those are all fine

 

[Spinluck]

"The gods are toying with us."

I love Balthier and Fran, this game's dialogue is written so damn well for a FF game.

 

[thedan001]

Anyone who is still stumped with using each of the 12 jobs once at most optimization possible, I suggest giving this reddit post a read

Poster goes over why some jobs are too important to ignore and boils down which jobs are best fitted into the context of a party

Both of my 2 setups I planned for were actually in the recommended 15 job compositions that is in the post (see rule #5) because of the same reasons I had with the poster

12 job party optimization

 

[Einhandr]

Anyone who is still stumped with using each of the 12 jobs once at most optimization possible, I suggest giving this reddit post a read

Poster goes over why some jobs are too important to ignore and boils down which jobs are best fitted into the context of a party

Both of my 2 setups I planned for were actually in the recommended 15 job compositions that is in the post (see rule #5) because of the same reasons I had with the poster

12 job party optimization

I posted this same link before the OT was made. I think it should be added to the main post.

 

[aravuus]

Oh hell yeah, I can buy Remedies now too! Didn't remember you could get them so soon. I wonder if someone starts selling Elixirs or even Megalixirs at some point.

Yeah fast forward is a godsend.

I played the original Xenoblade on Dolphin with fast forward and it made it impossible to go back to Xenoblade Chronicles X afterward.

Oh yeah, the insane collectible and fetch quest grind got so much more tolerable when you're able to play the game at 4-5x speed. I actually maxed out my collectopedias and finished every single side quest of the first 3 or 4 areas of XB easily thanks to ff.

Then I got some new games and got bored, but still, it's the furthest I've gotten in a 100% XB playthrough lol

 

[MisterShine]

A few newb questions:

• How do you heal quickly post-battle? Set a gambit?

Played almost all the FF's, but somehow missed 12. I was always waiting for a version like this, and the 2x and 4x speed are amazing.

I have my bottom gambit (below attack nearby enemy) be Ally at <90% Health --> Cure
This won't ever fire in combat because it is below attacking enemies that are nearby, and will more or less top you off between mobs. You could set it to "Ally at <100%..." but I don't have that one, and being at 97% v. 100% isn't a big deal most of the time.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I have my bottom gambit (below attack nearby enemy) be Ally at <90% Health --> Cure
This won't ever fire in combat because it is below attacking enemies that are nearby, and will more or less top you off between mobs. You could set it to "Ally at <100%..." but I don't have that one, and being at 97% v. 100% isn't a big deal most of the time.

That's actually pretty smart. Might have to copy this.

 

[Muffdraul]

I haven't looked that closely into it, but having played both the original 2007 IZJS version and several hours of Zodiac Age, it seems to me that you'd have to almost try to screw yourself over to end up with non-viable characters in this new version. With only one job in the 2007 version I felt really hamstrung at times. Not feeling that way at all in this version. I generally gave them their "default" job from the original vanilla game on the first pass, e.g. Vaan Shikari, Balthier Machinst, Fran Archer etc. and then on the second pass I doled out various mage jobs and such. No regrets yet but we'll see.

 

[Aeana]

I haven't looked that closely into it, but having played both the original 2007 IZJS version and several hours of Zodiac Age, it seems to me that you'd have to almost try to screw yourself over to end up with non-viable characters in this new version. With only one job in the 2007 version I felt really hamstrung at times. Not feeling that way at all in this version. I generally gave them their "default" job from the original vanilla game on the first pass, e.g. Vaan Shikari, Balthier Machinst, Fran Archer etc. and then on the second pass I doled out various mage jobs and such. No regrets yet but we'll see.

As someone who beat IZJS with just Vaan as a solo red mage, I'd say you can get through this game with any combo for a full party.

 

[WolfeTone]

so this is worse ?
i am a little paranoid about starting wrong,
that whole missing item thing in ff12 still hurst

Seems like SolVanderlyn's is pretty much the same as mine, except different characters have different jobs.

I wasn't too concerned with which characters got which jobs or which jobs fit them from a 'lore perspective'.

Due to low MP counts, Magic is not so effective in the early game which is why I prioritized physical attacking jobs for first classes, outside of White Mage for healing of course.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Seems like SolVanderlyn's is pretty much the same as mine, except different characters have different jobs.

I wasn't too concerned with which characters got which jobs or which jobs fit them from a 'lore perspective'.

Due to low MP counts, Magic is not so effective in the early game which is why I prioritized physical attacking jobs for first classes, outside of White Mage for healing of course.

Your build has Fran as the MCH/WHM, which actually works well for her low stats due to guns dealing fixed damage. Not sure if that or taking advantage of Penelo's better stats for WHM is more effective. In the end it probably barely matters anyway.

 

[RS4-]

Kinda wish there was a 'buy all' button at shops. I know you don't need every gambit option but man, I might as well just buy all of them if I've got the money or whatever.

 

[ryan13ts]

Here's my potential party setup

Foebreaker/Shikari - Balthier
Bushi/Monk - Vaan
Time/Knight - Basch
Black M./Archer - Penelo
Red M./Machinist - Fran
White M./Ulhan - Ashe

That last one, White Mage/Uhlan, is the only one I'm not too sure about. Did some research on my setup and it seems pretty good over all but couldn't really find any opinions on the White Mage/Uhlan. Only picked that since they were the odd jobs out. Do you guys think this will work or will be too counterproductive?

 

[WolfeTone]

Your build has Fran as the MCH/WHM, which actually works well for her low stats due to guns dealing fixed damage. Not sure if that or taking advantage of Penelo's better stats for WHM is more effective. In the end it probably barely matters anyway.

Yeah I think ultimately, the minor differences between the characters won't have a huge impact in the end. If Penelo's Curaga's would have healed 5-10% more than Fran's, I can live with that.

I'm making an effort to use a full party of 6 this time. In the vanilla game I just used 3 while the rest fell behind. Rotating them in and out is enjoyable, but so far there are not many differences, Vaan steals once, everyone spams attack, Fran/Ashe cure when needed.

 

[thedan001]

Here's my potential party setup

Foebreaker/Shikari - Balthier
Bushi/Monk - Vaan
Time/Knight - Basch
Black M./Archer - Penelo
Red M./Machinist - Fran
White M./Ulhan - Ashe

That last one, White Mage/Uhlan, is the only one I'm not too sure about. Did some research on my setup and it seems pretty good over all but couldn't really find any opinions on the White Mage/Uhlan. Only picked that since they were the odd jobs out. Do you guys think this will work or will be too counterproductive?

White Mage/Uhlan doesnt have 3 swiftness, I do not recommend

See rule #4 from the reddit post for reasonings why

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Anyone remember how to get further into Barheim? I coulda sworn its something to do with the candle but cant remember fully

 

[WolfeTone]

Kinda wish there was a 'buy all' button at shops. I know you don't need every gambit option but man, I might as well just buy all of them if I've got the money or whatever.

Yeah would have loved a buy all option. It sucked having to buy every gambit one by one. At least it's over.

 

[Akai XIII]

What would be the best match up for these classes?:

Vaan - Shikari
Balthier - Machinist
Fran - Monk
Basch - Bushi
Ashe - Knight
Penelo - Black Mage

 

[Freeglader]

I'm trying real hard not to overlevel. I remember breezing through XII ten years ago, but back then I grinded like crazy and I just bruteforced through everything. This time I'm trying to put more thought into encounters. I just completed Raithwall at level 17 and still felt somewhat too strong. Now that my party has two jobs I guess it will get even easier... Good thing I can use fast forward to quickly run past enemies

Also, I actually always enjoyed the story in this game, but playing through it now I'm enjoying it much more than the first time. Maybe it's just because I'm older, but I really think this is awesome stuff and I wish more Final Fantasy games had this same level of gravitas. I have a much greater appreciation for the villains too. They are so subtle and don't have the typical "I'm evil and going to destroy you!" attitude that we see in a lot of FF games.

Edit: Oh and the remastered music is unreal! My favorite OST of all time. It really gives the world a strong sense of place and atmosphere.

 

[WolfeTone]

Anyone remember how to get further into Barheim? I coulda sworn its something to do with the candle but cant remember fully

You have to finish the Sick Traveler quest in the Estersand village with Dantro's wife. I believe it's only accessible after Raithwall's tomb.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

You have to finish the Sick Traveler quest in the Estersand village with Dantro's wife. I believe it's only accessible after Raithwall's tomb.

Already done all that.

Spoiler

turns out there's a downed mine cart to smack that I missed

 

[Bluenoser]

Yeah I think ultimately, the minor differences between the characters won't have a huge impact in the end. If Penelo's Curaga's would have healed 5-10% more than Fran's, I can live with that.

I'm making an effort to use a full party of 6 this time. In the vanilla game I just used 3 while the rest fell behind. Rotating them in and out is enjoyable, but so far there are not many differences, Vaan steals once, everyone spams attack, Fran/Ashe cure when needed.

I'd rather my nukes do 5-10% more damage than the cures do 5-10% more healing, so I feel Penelo and Ashe are optimal as offensive mages, and Fran is perfectly fine as a support mage (either WHM/MCH or WHM/TBM)