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[Skilletor]

Status: Still at Chapter 5 after two weeks or so. I can't bring myself to beat this. Can anyone give me a tip of anything... "AWESOME"... that's coming up so i get inspired again? =P

Chapter 11, about 15 hours from where you are. I wouldn't even say it's AWESOME, but it's better. I'm not going to beat the game, so...um, yeah. Can't really help you.

 

[Zen]

I don't see how that makes 10 more repetitive. It's the same thing except you can't see the enemies. Big whoop, and in many cases FF13's battles are so frequent they might as well be random.

Hell no.There's some gameplay and strategy involved before the battles FFXIII; add to that being able to avoid encounters here and there, as well as the shrouds. FFX is just walking around until the screen breaks, and does it break often.

The frequent fights that are apparently so frequent that they might as well be random encounters only happen often in the early bits, I've walked around for 10 minutes without getting into a fight in grand pulse. Yes that's the 'open area' but there tons more to the pre fights in FFXIII when compared to the boring, irritating, and repetitive FFX method of having no control over when and how you're drawn into an encounter.

Frequent 'repetitive' fights from enemies on screen that you can choose the method of engagement with > Having no control over that and just having the game stop you three times while you're walking somewhere whilst having a battle system that makes trash mobs much more irritating than in FFXIII.

There's zero player agency in FFX for manipulating the playing field of the encounters, and the FFX combat system makes those encounters longer, more frequent, more annoying, and more of a grind because of the degree of needed manual control over the battles.

Not to mention that in FFX you can't even just say fuck it and muscle through garbage mobs nearly as easily; if you aren't going to bother swapping in the needed characters and you just want to hit X it will still take some time to kill the enemies because of their character specific enemy vulnerabilities.

I mean you can sit there and spam attack, but it takes a lot longer than staggering enemies in FFXIII. In FFX you have to manually switch in required characters, and even then when you're faced with some trash mob that's only a little bit under powered, you might still have to go through a few rounds with the needed characters to kill said mob.

On top of FXIII having everything happening at once, thus making it a faster experience, it is at least flashier on top of that, making the experience of trashing mobs (that can be avoided here and there unlike FFX) more enjoyable.

 

[Skilletor]

Are we calling walking up behind an enemy stealth, now?

Edit: There is standing outside of the enemies line of sight and running as you normally would right into them when they turn. I don't call that stealth.

 

[Fun Factor]

That is not a good argument.

Yes it is, it has variety even if you would call it diversions.

Take FFXII on the other hand, which had even less. The random weather changing pattern, chocobo riding & hunts were the things setting apart the game from just wandering around for hours grinding enemies on the field.

Are we calling walking up behind an enemy stealth, now?

Did you not play the part where Lighting & Hope get to the city?

 

[squall211]

I need a strategy for 5-starring the final boss. The best I can do is 4 stars. I use Fang, Lightning, and Hope. Fang and Lightning both have maxed ultimate weapons, and Hope's is lvl 70ish.

What strategies did you guys use to get 5 stars?

 

[Skilletor]

Yes it is, it has variety even if you would call it diversions.

Take FFXII on the other hand, which had even less. The random weather changing pattern, chocobo riding & hunts were the things setting apart the game from just wandering around for hours grinding enemies on the field.



Did you not play the part where Lighting & Hope get to the city?

Yes, I played it. There was no punishment for running directly into the enemies as opposed to "stealthily" sneaking up behind them. There were no reinforcements called or anything that would make sense when you're behind enemy lines. That section was no different than any other section, other than during cutscenes Hope and Light acted as if they had to be stealthy.

Stealth, to me, implies punishment for being not stealthy, not just a prebattle buff for running into an enemy's backside. For example, do enemies get a preemptive attack?

 

[rataven]

Just started chapter 10. How much longer until I get to fight these turtles I keep reading about?

And oh god, the chapter 9 boss. I did REALLY bad. I managed to beat him, but it took me 20 minutes and I got zero stars. Maybe I shouldn't admit that.....Anyway, did I miss anything by doing so bad? A trophy or special reward item?

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Just started chapter 10. How much longer until I get to fight these turtles I keep reading about?

?

The next chapter

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yes it is, it has variety even if you would call it diversions.

Take FFXII on the other hand, which had even less. The random weather changing pattern, chocobo riding & hunts were the things setting apart the game from just wandering around for hours grinding enemies on the field.

The things you stated, some of which were more implied than actually there, were just level gimmicks which FFXII had in the form of actual puzzles in its dungeons(which, while not saying much, were way more complicated than XIII's gimmicks).

Not to mention actual exploration and optional content before the halfway point of the game.

And even though the weather was random it still had more interesting effects than just changing one or two of the monster types.

Hell, XII even had a single minigame.

 

[Zen]

Are we calling walking up behind an enemy stealth, now?

Edit: There is standing outside of the enemies line of sight and running as you normally would right into them when they turn. I don't call that stealth.

If you wouldn't call 'approaching/avoiding another person whist they are unaware of your presence' stealth, then I'm not sure what you'd call stealth.

Stealth, to me, implies punishment for being not stealthy, not just a prebattle buff for running into an enemy's backside. For example, do enemies get a preemptive attack?

Well you're confusing the risk/reward theory with the actual term 'stealth'. Maybe what you're describing is a component of what makes 'stealth' rewarding in a video game context, but that has nothing to do with what stealth actually is, or the act of it, to be more specific.

 

[Skilletor]

If you wouldn't call 'approaching/avoiding another person whist they are unaware of your presence' stealth, then I'm not sure what you'd call stealth.

Word. Man, Grandia has awesome stealth gameplay.

 

[Lady Bird]

FFX had more variety because of the countless poorly-designed mini-games, and... hmm, I believe that's all?

Treasure hunting with chocobos in FFXIII is funnier than the extremely annoying chocobo racing from FFX; and in both chocobos need to be used to find new areas (although FFXIII makes better use of it by also having many treasure chests that can only be reached with chocobos).

Both have an optional bosses system, except that FFX forces you to go to all the previous areas and grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind and grind against foes you have already fought countless times the last time you were in those areas, so you can finally unlock the boss.

Both games have optional areas, with optional sidequests.

And Pulse is more explorable than Calm Lands (sorry FFX fans).

What am I forgetting?

 

[Papercuts]

Did you not play the part where Lighting & Hope get to the city?

Stealth implies not being seen. You can run around as normal there, the guards don't do anything different.

 

[rataven]

The next chapter

Rad. So who makes a good Medic at this point? Been using Hope and buffing his HP with accessories, but it still doesn't take much to knock him down.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

If you wouldn't call 'approaching/avoiding another person whist they are unaware of your presence' stealth, then I'm not sure what you'd call stealth.

I wouldn't call it letting the enemy see you, running a few feet away and watching them stare at you and then turn away for no reason "stealth" either.

Nor would I call enemies not hearing or seeing gunfire and freaking bolts of lightning, falling down from the sky, "stealthy".

 

[Dresden]

People are still playing XIII? Hurry up and get to Resonance of Fate and Strange Journey already.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Rad. So who makes a good Medic at this point? Been using Hope and buffing his HP with accessories, but it still doesn't take much to knock him down.

Hope was my main medic for the game, Lightning doubled just up to have RENEW and DISPELGA. Though at end game I had both of them full on the medic crysterium since there are huge HP boosts on it.

 

[Zen]

Stealth implies not being seen. You can run around as normal there, the guards don't do anything different.

Your two sentences have nothing to do with each other. You're right that stealth means not being seen, but that has nothing to do with how enemies will or won't react differently from how they normally would (in this case, attacking you).

Would it have been nice to have had a 'reinforcement' mechanic here and there for enemies? Sure. But that's doesn't mean that stealth isn't an option here or there in FFXIII, even if it's in the force of 'stealth attacking' more so than just avoiding mobs.

Granted Gran Pulse allows you to avoid enemies all the time, unlike FFX... ever.

Yes I'm angry, my PS3 just died. :lol

I wouldn't call it letting the enemy see you, running a few feet away and watching them stare at you and then turn away for no reason "stealth" either.

Nor would I call enemies not hearing or seeing gunfire and freaking bolts of lightning, falling down from the sky, "stealthy".

Final Fantasy isn't Metal Gear Solid, you might wish that they'd have taken the stealth options further, but that's a separate issue. Saying that there isn't stealth in the game is like saying a fish doesn't have a brain simply because it forgets things every three seconds.

 

[Papercuts]

Your two sentences have nothing to do with each other. You're right that stealth means not being seen, but that has nothing to do with how enemies will or won't react differently from how they normally would (in this case, attacking you).

Would it have been nice to have had a 'reinforcement' mechanic here and there for enemies? Sure. But that's doesn't mean that stealth isn't an option here or there in FFXIII, even if it's in the force of 'stealth attacking' more so than just avoiding mobs.

Granted Gran Pulse allows you to avoid enemies all the time, unlike FFX... ever.

Yes I'm angry, my PS3 just died. :lol

I was only really talking about the "stealth" part in chapter 7, not the preemtive attack mechanic itself. I thought at that part it meant getting seen would have the guards do just that, call reinforcements. Instead they see you, run around a little, then stop and just keep walking back and forward. I'm basically just saying that segment was no different than any other part of the game and isn't an example of variety within the game like he listed it as.

 

[Zen]

Ah, gotcha. I think a reinforcement system (even if it would just be enemy specific in areas where it makes sense) would have been cool.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Final Fantasy isn't Metal Gear Solid, you might wish that they'd have taken the stealth options further, but that's a separate issue. Saying that there isn't stealth in the game is like saying a fish doesn't have a brain simply because it forgets things every three seconds.

But in that section the game lies and claims that the characters have to be stealthy for no reason.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if Lightning had just said "let's go" instead of "use stealth".

 

[Lady Bird]

I don't find the enemies in FF13 as much more difficult than the enemies in FF10. In FF10 I use Tidus for the dog, Auron for the dragon, Wakka for the flying thing;etc. and likewise in FF13, I start out every battle with com/syn/sab and switch to rav/rav/com or com/com/rav.

FFXIII has with far more frequency enemies that require strategy in order to get five stars, and which require different paradigms than those you mentioned.

but at least 10 has those awesome boss fights

Which FFXIII had too.

What gameplay and strategy involved? Shrouds? A back attack?

Many times the player is rewarded by observing for a few seconds the enemy's movement and finding out the best way to start a pre-emptive attack, especially on enemies that are otherwise too tough for normal battles. This happens several times in the first ten chapters, and many times in Pulse.

I'd take CTB over casting auto-attack repeatedly any day. FF13 has a lot of fights, without the depth to back it up.

FFX has a battle system designed to be strategical, and countless filler enemies that require no strategy to be beaten (unless you consider character X needed to attack monster type Y "strategic"). It's such an easy game that most of the times, a little bit of thought is only needed to overkill an enemy, which is not much different than getting five stars in many of FFXIII's battles. And when your characters were hurt, in FFX, you could simply fully heal them in the menu with Yuna because of her almost unlimited MP and the healing save points being often enough before depleting her MP totally.

In any case, both games feature highly repetitive combat. But what's the more repetitive game? FF13, as that's all there is: combat, combat, combat. That was the original argument. This current argument is just a battle between preferences.

And FFX? Crappy mini-games and combat, combat, combat? Doesn't seems better to me.

 

[rataven]

Hope was my main medic for the game, Lightning doubled just up to have RENEW and DISPELGA. Though at end game I had both of them full on the medic crysterium since there are huge HP boosts on it.

Thanks. I'll leave him as Medic then, especially since he could use those HP boosts.

 

[Lince]

FFXII isn't going to be topped anytime soon, that was the pinnacle of the series. I understand some of the hate going on here but XIII was quite fun, just turn off the map and enjoy the graphics and the battle system.

 

[Skilletor]

Why do people only compare FF games to other FF games as if they exist in a vacuum. There are other worlds than these.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

FFXII isn't going to be topped anytime soon, that was the pinnacle of the series. I understand some of the hate going on here but XIII was quite fun, just turn off the map and enjoy the graphics and the battle system.

This is gonna end well.

You should have said VI or Tactics.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

While Hamauzu's work in XIII is fantastic, particularly in the variations of Serah's Theme and the Battle Theme, I still don't think it holds a candle to Uematsu's Final Fantasy soundtracks. Though like I said, I do love the two above songs.

 

[Crash Station]

So now this has turned into and FFX vs FFXIII argument? Awesome. I'm glad forums weren't around (or were EXTREMELY limited) when FFVII came out.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Why do people only compare FF games to other FF games as if they exist in a vacuum. There are other worlds than these.

Because things were better in the old days.

Back then we used to have to walk up a hill on the world map both ways barefoot in the snow just to get to a dungeon.

Now these newfangled tubes are turning you youngsters into pansies.

 

[Zen]

But in that section the game lies and claims that the characters have to be stealthy for no reason.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if Lightning had just said "let's go" instead of "use stealth".

Fair enough. I personally found the bikes to be hard the first time (in fact they killed me mroe than once in that area).

Like I said last post, if the enemies had a 'summon help' ability specifically for that area that they could use if they saw you and engaged in a battle, that would have been neat.

It's also something hat probably would have been very easy to implement there and elsewhere.

 

[Skilletor]

So now this has turned into and FFX vs FFXIII argument? Awesome. I'm glad forums weren't around (or were EXTREMELY limited) when FFVII came out.

:lol

The only reason I would compare this game to any other FF is because I would like to have the ability to tell my AI what to do, or at least set priorities. OTherwise, I think the battle system is a lot of fun.

I guess I have to finish the game to unlock all of the Crystarium? That sucks. I don't wanna leave chapter 11.

 

[Cep]

So now this has turned into and FFX vs FFXIII argument? Awesome. I'm glad forums weren't around (or were EXTREMELY limited) when FFVII came out.

Plenty of hate nowadays to cover for that.

Although, it IS overrated as fuck. Still liked it well enough when I played it.

And yes the X vs XIII argument is stupid.

 

[Crash Station]

Plenty of hate nowadays to cover for that.

Although, it IS overrated as fuck. Still liked it well enough when I played it.

I honestly think the main reason everyone loved VII is because of the technology. That's one of the reasons people are calling it overrated now. There are few people like me that legitimately loved it for everything from the battle system to the music.

I can still play it today and still say I love it just as much as I did back then.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I honestly think the main reason everyone loved VII is because of the technology. That's one of the reasons people are calling it overrated now. There are few people like me that legitimately loved it for everything from the battle system to the music.

I can still play it today and still say I love it just as much as I did back then.

I still like it, it's just somewhat outdated gameplay wise.

 

[rataven]

I honestly think the main reason everyone loved VII is because of the technology. That's one of the reasons people are calling it overrated now. There are few people like me that legitimately loved it for everything from the battle system to the music.

I can still play it today and still say I love it just as much as I did back then.

I doubt technology is the reason. VII has been at the top of the PSN downloads since it was released on it. And I have two much younger cousins who have just played through it and loved it. It's a great game. That's why it's loved.

 

[ZephyrFate]

People are still playing XIII? Hurry up and get to Resonance of Fate and Strange Journey already.

No.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The real issue at the heart of the FFX vs FFXIII debate is that at the core, FFX always was a terrible Final Fantasy game. It was clear from the start it was designed to appeal to a perceived audience of "casual hardcore" fans who just wanted to see lots of anime melodrama cut scenes, march forward, and feel the battles meant they were playing the story.

FFXIII refines this formula by cutting the rest of the fat, and offering up Gran Pulse to give the rest of the players something to actually /do/ in the game.

But it's still a fundamentally broken formula.

The PSOne FF trilogy beats the hell out of both games in terms of their underlying logic and structure. FFXII may as well be god's gift to gaming by comparison and feels like an impossibly rich game compared to the Animu Twins.

The irony of playing FFXIII is that it gave me a brand new appreciation for XII - I actually went and ordered the FFXII strategy guide and am gonna play through the game in a more complete sense to blow it totally out, after I wrap up my FFXIII game.

In spite of my serious criticisms, I'm not trying to troll FFXIII or say it's a shit game. It's very entertaining. I do want to see the end of the story. But it's no way in the same class as the 8-bit, 16-bit, PSOne, or Ivalice Final Fantasy games.

 

[Crash Station]

I doubt technology is the reason. VII has been at the top of the PSN downloads since it game out. I have two much younger cousins who have just played through it and loved it. It's a great game. That's why it's loved.

Well I hope that's true. We need more gamers like your cousins that can appreciate the classics.

And yeah, it is a great game. I've said it here before and I've been criticized for it, but it's my favorite game of all time. It's one of the reasons I'm both anticipating and worried about a remake.

 

[Papercuts]

Woo, beat chapter 11. Not sure about the hate that boss gets, it's annoying as hell but I managed to beat it in one go.

Spoiler

Is it the fact he casts doom? I'll admit I only had around 800 left above my head, but I wasn't worried since I know summon gets rid of that. Doom is a fucking terrible mechanic and I feel sorry for people who get stuck on him because of that, I could see him getting fuckannoying if you had to keep redoing it. It got a lot easier once I realized buffs could go fuck off and just stuck to debuffing since he wiped the field too often for it to matter. Thaetonian Smile or whatever was always at bad times, but my Med/Med/Med setup got a lot of use in this fight, not NEARLY as bullshit as I found the chapter 9 version of him, this one was actually pretty tense and hard without being bullshit(aside from doom).

Also yay, Hope finally learned Haste. Bye Sazh!

 

[leng jai]

How is playing FFVIII on the PSP? If its good, I might have to rebuy a 3000 for that and Peacewalker.

 

[Thrakier]

WTF at Mission 16. Had no big problems with missions so far, already did 17 but I have not the SLIGHTESt chance in Mission 16. Holy cow. I don't know what to do now. There are also no new missions which I could do first.

 

[Revengeance]

A few hours into Chapter 11, and Behemoth Kings are kicking my ass. Am I doing it wrong, or am I just too weak at this point?

 

[Amir0x]

A few hours into Chapter 11, and Behemoth Kings are kicking my ass. Am I doing it wrong, or am I just too weak at this point?

Preemptively strike them. To the end of Chp11, you'll still be weak against them due to Crystarium limits. Unless you have well upgraded weapons, fighting them head on is still difficult (albeit possible).

By the end of Chp11, I was able to take a Behemoth King down (preemptive strike) in 12 seconds.

 

[Crash Station]

The real issue at the heart of the FFX vs FFXIII debate is that at the core, FFX always was a terrible Final Fantasy game. It was clear from the start it was designed to appeal to a perceived audience of "casual hardcore" fans who just wanted to see lots of anime melodrama cut scenes, march forward, and feel the battles meant they were playing the story.

FFXIII refines this formula by cutting the rest of the fat, and offering up Gran Pulse to give the rest of the players something to actually /do/ in the game.

But it's still a fundamentally broken formula.

The PSOne FF trilogy beats the hell out of both games in terms of their underlying logic and structure. FFXII may as well be god's gift to gaming by comparison and feels like an impossibly rich game compared to the Animu Twins.

The irony of playing FFXIII is that it gave me a brand new appreciation for XII - I actually went and ordered the FFXII strategy guide and am gonna play through the game in a more complete sense to blow it totally out, after I wrap up my FFXIII game.

In spite of my serious criticisms, I'm not trying to troll FFXIII or say it's a shit game. It's very entertaining. I do want to see the end of the story. But it's no way in the same class as the 8-bit, 16-bit, PSOne, or Ivalice Final Fantasy games.

I don't think you can say "it was designed to be terrible". Yeah it's different from the rest of the series but there isn't anything that objectively puts it lower than the rest.

I mean, the so called "god's gift to gaming" you mention didn't appeal to me at all and I am in no way a "casual hardcore". I've been with the series almost since the beginning and have enjoyed every single one other than 12. It's a taste thing and I wouldn't say any are fundamentally designed poorly with the possible exception of 2 because of its ass backwards level up system.

 

[LowParry]

I take it you can return to Gran Pulse during Chp. 13? Probably half way through 12 now.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

I take it you can return to Gran Pulse during Chp. 13? Probably half way through 12 now.

You can return to gran pulse end Chapter 12/Beg 13

 

[sam27368]

$£"@ing

Spoiler

Neochu

! Actually tried to play him "normally" (not for any moral reason, just got bored of spamming death)

My party are mid level 4 (a couple have level 5 crystals) and have about an average of 10k hp per char. How long does it normally take when spamming death?

 

[Zoe]

Mission 64 tips?

My party are mid level 4 (a couple have level 5 crystals) and have about an average of 10k hp per char. How long does it normally take when spamming death?

Random. And don't forget you still have to deal with the other guys.

 

[Xevren]

Mission 64 tips?



Random. And don't forget you still have to deal with the other guys.

Poison is your best friend.

 

[Papercuts]

A few hours into Chapter 11, and Behemoth Kings are kicking my ass. Am I doing it wrong, or am I just too weak at this point?

I actually think it's better to not get a pre-emptive, but I seem to be in the minority. Just focus on staggering from the start with a few Com/Rav/Rav rounds and then Rav/Rav/Rav, switching to a Med set if you need it. Then go Com/Rav/Rav and kill it before the stagger is off, doing it like this always let me stagger it when it got nearish the middle and I always bypassed the second form(which is the only hard part). If I staggered at the start and didn't kill it, then it stands up, heals, and molests your party.