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[Zen]

It might be some kind of sadomasochistic thing, where I want to confirm my opinion of the game. We'll see :lol

Your problem is that you're reasonable and open minded. You can understand why they like it and your understanding nature makes you want to go back in and reassess.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I don't think you're quite modelling my argument correctly.

It's just "don't judge a book by it's cover". That applies to games, people... And of course books.

But he eventually played the game, and was right.

The argument you made to defend your point was completely illogical and was so different from amirox's case that it was facepalm worthy.

I get what you mean, state it better next time.

But you can't say that you had "knowlege" of this being true.

I never claimed that but, your argument seemed to imply that even if your predictions are true that they actually aren't because they were predictions.

 

[Amir0x]

Well at the start, they are on the run. They're not going to set out exploring a specific secret dungeon for some loot when they are being hunted. it makes complete sense storywise that are going through jungles & mountainous roads at the start.

Well judging by how the levels are designed, it must be super easy to find someone on the run. If I was actually on the run, I wouldn't follow the only straight path road through Gapra Whitewood. I'd use my psycho antigravity technology to thrust myself through the gaping maw of the crystaline forest (tee hee), and then hide amongst the sparkling bushes or some shit. I wouldn't go through the only part of the forest that has fucking elevators.

And besides, people keep using this on the run thing but the reality is there is numerous occasions when the game breaks its own rules to take a breather, relatively speaking, from the pace. It had time to stop and let you find a Chocobo baby in that terrible mini-game. It has time, where it deems it necessary.

The story is not the reason why the game is designed the way it is. It's a deliberate design choice, true, partially due to limitations of time (they didn't have enough time to make the content after spending all that time making the engine, they said as much), and it's partially due to the strong desire to strip away anything that takes players away from cutscenes and battles. This is a design decision, a bad one, but it is what it is. If they wanted to, they could have fit a breather into any part. Just like they arbitrarily decided in Gapra Whitewood that magically the soldiers weren't chasing them hard anymore for a time.

I still can't see how this is different from most jRPGS. They don't have intricate & interactive level design.
Compare a Tomb Raider Tomb or a Zelda dungeon, with their puzzles, layers of various design & progression to any of the 2D FF game dungeon. In FF, all you are doing is going through one set linear path with some equally as linear branches that just lead to a treasure chest.
Sometimes there is diversion/mini-game thrown in between, which FFXIII also has. I don't see how it is so different at all other than the pacing & streamlining of towns.

we're talking about layering artistic direction now. The idea that your locations shouldn't be sterile, empty bits of nothing, but tangibly lived in, showing years of wear or history that is conveyed through simple designs. In ME2, which I was using as a comparison because they're both linear, it is filled with intricately designed sets where you can instantly tell about a civilization or a place based on what is there. You feel like "yes, this is a place that someone inhabits." The locations are appropriately filled with the type of detritus that suggests life and a real location. FFXIII's locations are like some cellophane-wrapped fever dream, little hazy outlines suggesting the desire to live, but always being a sad imitation of a soul.

 

[Alex]

There's a huge difference between typical linearity or even corridor designs and the kind of "forward and forget" style that makes up the strong majority of XIII.

You keep trying to make these reaches to convince people that Final Fantasy was always like this, but that's simply not true.

I mean hell, you just went on before about comparing a reasonable map with path selections and dead ends and treasures to put some risk for and an A to B line to point point, which you declared less linear because the other one was mapped on graph paper and the other have a contour on it.

I could start posting dungeon maps and layouts and explaining the difference if it need be. I don't think people are angry because it's not some open-world cavalcade of choice, they just want what they had before back.

XIII wasn't some bold new style, it was just taking away everything that made the older ones actual video games.

 

[Thrakier]

Chapter 11:

Spoiler

I'm at this city which shows btw how beautiful and amazing some exploration and towns COULD HAVE BEEN!!! However, did they really put the last of the 5 items I need for that robot AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE STAGE!??? Did they REALLY do that?? You know, enemis are respawning and there are some that need like five minutes to be beaten and it's not fun at all...man, what's up, did the interns design that game? The level designers are out of their mind imo!!! That's just bad.

 

[BocoDragon]

But he eventually played the game, and was right.

But my argument was that forming judgements before you have played the game at all is bad form.

I don't even care if he was right later on, and the whole reason we're talking about "predictions" and "knowlege" is because, indeed, my argument was that being retroactively correct about ones prejudice doesn't excuse being prejudiced in the first place.

It's a fine logical point IMO.

Now Amirox has responded that he essentially wasn't prejudiced.. He was recognizing in post-Japanese impressions several aspects of game design that he already knew that he wouldn't enjoy when he encountered them. That's an acceptable answer I think. Let's move on.

 

[firehawk12]

we're talking about layering artistic direction now. The idea that your locations shouldn't be sterile, empty bits of nothing, but tangibly lived in, showing years of wear or history that is conveyed through simple designs. In ME2, which I was using as a comparison because they're both linear, it is filled with intricately designed sets where you can instantly tell about a civilization or a place based on what is there. You feel like "yes, this is a place that someone inhabits." The locations are appropriately filled with the type of detritus that suggests life and a real location. FFXIII's locations are like some cellophane-wrapped fever dream, little hazy outlines suggesting the desire to live, but always being a sad imitation of a soul.

I'll still maintain that the locations in ME2 are much more contrived - and FF13 has some fucked up levels.
If we're talking ME1? Maybe I'd agree with you. Eden Prime felt more like a colony than either of the colonies featured in ME2.

Edit - maybe I'm just hung up on the fact you use ME2. :lol
Dragon Age is just as linear and has more interesting level design/art direction than ME2.

 

[Amir0x]

yeah the idea that Mass Effect 2's levels are "more contrived" than FFXIII is just absurd. All of Mass Effect 2's levels make sense, are designed appropriately within the scope of the environment, and feel like tangible, real places.

Not a single location in FFXIII feels like that, ever, not even for a moment. Only Gran Pulse comes close!

Anyway, don't want this to be ME2 vs. FFXIII, just want to illustrate a problem WITH the linear design. We can keep the linear design and still create a entertaining experience. One needs to improve HOW the corridors are designed then.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Chapter 11:

Spoiler

I'm at this city which shows btw how beautiful and amazing some exploration and towns COULD HAVE BEEN!!! However, did they really put the last of the 5 items I need for that robot AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE STAGE!??? Did they REALLY do that?? You know, enemis are respawning and there are some that need like five minutes to be beaten and it's not fun at all...man, what's up, did the interns design that game? The level designers are out of their mind imo!!! That's just bad.

If you time it right, you could have actually outran 4 of 5 of them.

 

[firehawk12]

yeah the idea that Mass Effect 2's levels are "more contrived" than FFXIII is just absurd. All of Mass Effect 2's levels make sense, are designed appropriately within the scope of the environment, and feel like tangible, real places.

Not a single location in FFXIII feels like that, ever, not even for a moment. Only Gran Pulse comes close!

Anyway, don't want this to be ME2 vs. FFXIII, just want to illustrate a problem WITH the linear design. We can keep the linear design and still create a entertaining experience. One needs to improve HOW the corridors are designed then.

Maybe it's because I play so many shooters, but the ME2 levels feel like they stepped out of a bad TPS. That's where I'm coming from.

I admit I have absolutely no experience with JRPGs so I probably don't have any right to say this, but I found the art direction of the levels in FF13 fascinatingly alien and thus just more visually striking.

Could there be more "life" thrown into the levels? Sure. But for me, their starkness was part of the charm - and perhaps even thematically consistent with the game's story.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

yeah the idea that Mass Effect 2's levels are "more contrived" than FFXIII is just absurd. All of Mass Effect 2's levels make sense, are designed appropriately within the scope of the environment, and feel like tangible, real places.

'Cept for all the crates.

Why are there so many neatly stacked waist high crates in this random hallway area?

Shouldn't these be in some kinda storage or transportation warehouse(with the exception of the one storage area and one transportation area in the game)? :lol

and perhaps even thematically consistent with the game's story.

Fighting against fate, represented though the world's most linear tubes.

Perhaps this is satire?

 

[ZephyrFate]

Or it follows the logic that fate is generally one path and one path only?

 

[User 10639]

I still can't see how this is different from most jRPGS. They don't have intricate & interactive level design.
Compare a Tomb Raider Tomb or a Zelda dungeon, with their puzzles, layers of various design & progression to any of the 2D FF game dungeon. In FF, all you are doing is going through one set linear path with some equally as linear branches that just lead to a treasure chest.

Demon's Souls is a good, recent example of how to balance freedom and linearity in RPG level design. It's not as broad and aimless as a game like Dragon Quest 8, but the nonlinear story progression and the design of levels themselves (which are logical and include branching paths that fold into other parts of the level) introduce a degree of freedom and exploration. Also, you can't just dismiss treasure chests, because finding them CAN be satisfying - Metroidvania games are a good example of this. Treasure chests lead to items that allow further exploration in other parts of the castle, not to mention optional bosses and the like. But those aren't traditional, so it's fair to say that they don't count in this discussion, and yes, most JRPGs are quite linear. Which brings me to point two...

Sometimes there is diversion/mini-game thrown in between, which FFXIII also has. I don't see how it is so different at all other than the pacing & streamlining of towns.

The problem is that the diversions introduce some kind of variety to the game, even if it's poorly done. Instead of just nixing traditional, crappy minigames and towns, why not put something in their stead? Persona has social elements, Suikoden has the 108 stars. You can't just eliminate variety and hope for the best, but you CAN try to innovate and introduce new design ideas in place of the older and staler ones. You have to have a really impressive, deep, and involved battle system and leveling system (as in an SRPG) if battles are going to be the entire game.

Most JRPGs do have mediocre level design, but 1) you shouldn't aim for mediocrity and 2) they feature something other than battles, cutscenes, and tunnels to break up the monotony.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Or it follows the logic that fate is generally one path and one path only?

The characters are trying to fight fate, yet the game opens up when they are still tools and closes back up once they are more prepared to fight for freedom than ever?

This is Bioshock levels of deconstruction here people, no wait it's just bad level design.

 

[Amir0x]

oh we're getting to the part where we try to rationalize the flaws by inventing new and bolder scenarios for why the development crew went this direction

this is the best part of all Final Fantasy threads.

It's, like, a statement on the narrowness of fate, man.

 

[ZephyrFate]

oh we're getting to the part where we try to rationalize the flaws by inventing new and bolder scenarios for why the development crew went this direction

this is the best part of all Final Fantasy threads.

It's, like, a statement on the narrowness of fate, man.

It's a little less annoying than your extended metaphors that attempt to explain your hatred of FFXIII better but instead fall flat and look like something ripped out of a high school student's journal.

 

[Amir0x]

one would imagine High School Students journals would be filled with crass statements about that raven-haired cheerleader in the front of the class (if one kept a journal at all), but yes... I suppose your high school journal would be filled with masturbatory lunatic ravings about Final Fantasy.

I am starting to think this simple social divide is why we don't understand each other, Zephyr.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

instead fall flat and look like something ripped out of a high school student's journal.

Like FFXIII's story?

Holy shit, this is getting deeper by the second.

Move over Squall. Someone else has died, and their name is square's writing talent.

 

[ZephyrFate]

one would imagine High School Students journals would be filled with crass statements about that raven-haired cheerleader in the front of the class (if one kept a journal at all), but yes... I suppose your high school journal would be filled with masturbatory lunatic ravings about Final Fantasy.

I am starting to think this simple social divide is why we don't understand each other, Zephyr.

I didn't have a journal in high school.

I'm beginning to think all the drugs you take is why we don't understand each other, Amir0x.

Fimbulvetr: I agree with you. I don't like XIII's story either.

Edit: In other news, Just Cause 2 has successfully driven me away from FF13 entirely. Congrats, Avalanche Studios.

 

[firehawk12]

Fighting against fate, represented though the world's most linear tubes.

Perhaps this is satire?

If we're being serious for a moment (GAF, I know), one of the themes of the game is that humanity has no control of its destiny - they are simply automatons that exist to serve another purpose. The lifelessness of the world reflects the constructed nature of everything in Cocoon and the L'Cie.

 

[Amir0x]

It always amuses me that in this day and age people still think that saying I use drugs is an insult. It's like they just met me!

Well, now that ad hominem attack hour is done, I hope we're past the "I hate hearing negativity so I have to lash out at the person doing the criticism" part of the discussion, and we can continue talking about how horrendously designed FFXIII's levels are.

 

[ZephyrFate]

If we're being serious for a moment (GAF, I know), one of the themes of the game is that humanity has no control of its destiny - they are simply automatons that exist to serve another purpose. The lifelessness of the world reflects the constructed nature of everything in Cocoon and the L'Cie.

An interesting perspective. Though I think they could have attempted that better.

 

[User 10639]

The characters are trying to fight fate, yet the game opens up when they are still tools and closes back up once they are more prepared to fight for freedom than ever?

This is Bioshock levels of deconstruction here people, no wait it's just bad level design.

I think it's more that Cocoon = limited and controlled and uhh there are robots, Pulse = open and free and monster-filled.

 

[ZeoVGM]

AHH OH MY GOD WTF @ THE

Spoiler

ADAMANTOISE

.

Jesus Christ. One hit and my party died. :lol

 

[Trickster]

Is it possible to keep playing after I kill the last boss, or is there a point of no return at some point?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

If we're being serious for a moment (GAF, I know), one of the themes of the game is that humanity has no control of its destiny - they are simply automatons that exist to serve another purpose. The lifelessness of the world reflects the constructed nature of everything in Cocoon and the L'Cie.

No, the theme is that humanity often falls into this but still has the power to fight it.

You'd be right if the game opened up when they all were determined to not be tools anymore, but it goes right back to being a tube straight after.

I agree with Cocoon needing to be sterile too.

But why does Pulse feel the same way despite being "wild" in direct contrast to Cocoon?

 

[Thrakier]

If you time it right, you could have actually outran 4 of 5 of them.

Oh wow, you are right, now that is actually great level design, trying to pass enemies all the time because the fights are too long and tedious! So FFXIII is more like a running action game, like...mirrors edge? Cool new perspective.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Is it possible to keep playing after I kill the last boss, or is there a point of no return at some point?

At the end of chapter 12 you get to an area that can(if you choose) teleport you back to pulse.

You get returned there after you beat the game too.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Okay, I used Odin on the

Spoiler

Adamantoise

and then attacked him while he was down for a few minutes. I took away about 1% of his energy. :lol

How in the fuck?

 

[Yoshichan]

Okay, I used Odin on the

Spoiler

Adamantoise

and then attacked him while he was down for a few minutes. I took away about 1% of his energy. :lol

How in the fuck?

You'll eventually reach the enough required CP to beat him.

Then you'll get to the tortoise with a Chinese name and you'll go "wtf" again.

Then you'll farm enough CP again. And beat him.

 

[Zen]

"I hate hearing negativity/positivity so I have to lash out at the person doing the criticism/giving praise"

Works both ways, sorry.

 

[ZeoVGM]

You'll eventually reach the enough required CP to beat him.

Then you'll get to the tortoise with a Chinese name and you'll go "wtf" again.

Then you'll farm enough CP again. And beat him.

Even the smaller tortoise killed me. Though that one took about 3 hits on his part. :lol

So what are the special items I should try to find/buy?

Also, does the ranking you get on a mission matter? I got 0 stars on my first mission for some reason. Will it change the item you get?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Works both ways, sorry.

Everyone does it sometimes, that doesn't make it right.

 

[Amir0x]

Works both ways, sorry.

Obviously!

But I'm not lashing out at the people giving praise. I think the discussion is very interesting and I enjoy hearing other sides of the debate. Merely discussing ones own positions passionately does not amount to disrespecting the other side. I think discussions are at their best when you have two different and strong opinions battling it out point for point.

People like ZephyrFate, however, clearly are unhinged when people criticize something they like, and so prefer to insult the individual rather than debate the finer points.

It's not unusual, I'm not surprised.

 

[Awntawn]

Okay, I used Odin on the

Spoiler

Adamantoise

and then attacked him while he was down for a few minutes. I took away about 1% of his energy. :lol

How in the fuck?

spam death and debuffs ;O

 

[Yoshichan]

Also, does the ranking you get on a mission matter? I got 0 stars on my first mission for some reason. Will it change the item you get?

No it doesn't matter. You can go back to the missions at any time and 5-star them (and still get the same reward).

 

[Fun Factor]

\

we're talking about layering artistic direction now. The idea that your locations shouldn't be sterile, empty bits of nothing, but tangibly lived in, showing years of wear or history that is conveyed through simple designs. In ME2, which I was using as a comparison because they're both linear, it is filled with intricately designed sets where you can instantly tell about a civilization or a place based on what is there. You feel like "yes, this is a place that someone inhabits." The locations are appropriately filled with the type of detritus that suggests life and a real location. FFXIII's locations are like some cellophane-wrapped fever dream, little hazy outlines suggesting the desire to live, but always being a sad imitation of a soul.

I could agree with you on that for the first 8-10 hours of the game, when it is just different forests, frozen lake paths & mountain paths, but you are honestly saying Eden, Nautilus & everything after that is sterile & has no "history" in it's design? It's some of the most awe inspiring artistic design I ever seen in a game.

 

[firehawk12]

Even the smaller tortoise killed me. Though that one took about 3 hits on his part. :lol

So what are the special items I should try to find/buy?

Also, does the ranking you get on a mission matter? I got 0 stars on my first mission for some reason. Will it change the item you get?

For Adamantoises, after you summon and knock them down, you casts buffs on yourself (Brave, Faith, Haste) and debuffs on the enemy (Deshell, Deprotect, Imperil). Then you switch to RAV/RAV/RAV, get the stagger to 999 and then COM/COM/RAV to finish it off.

If you can't do that in one knockdown, then chances are you are too weak. Genji gloves are almost a must with this strategy.

Ranking on the missions do not matter - they effect the drop rate of the enemy and there's an achievement for 5-starring all missions, but that's about it.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Obviously!

But I'm not lashing out at the people giving praise. I think the discussion is very interesting and I enjoy hearing other sides of the debate. Merely discussing ones own positions passionately does not amount to disrespecting the other side. I think discussions are at their best when you have two different and strong opinions battling it out point for point.

People like ZephyrFate, however, clearly are unhinged when people criticize something they like, and so prefer to insult the individual rather than debate the finer points.

It's not unusual, I'm not surprised.

Aww, thanks. Love you too!

 

[Rahxephon91]

I'm not sure whats wrong with the level design in XIII. The levels are bigger and expansive then FFX and Lost Odyssey. Yeah their pretty much straight lines, but so were those games. I do understand that they aren't very world building and feel kind of out of place.

 

[Amir0x]

I could agree with you on that for the first 8-10 hours of the game, when it is just different forests, frozen lake paths & mountain paths, but you are honestly saying Eden, Nautilus & everything after that is sterile & has no "history" in it's design? It's some of the most awe inspiring artistic design I ever seen in a game.

Yes, because they could have replaced the background with a picture of a giant "banana", and that's what it would have been like to actually walk around these locations. It's not that the basic art design is not fine (even though I don't like the impracticality of virtually everything in FFXIII's world, and most of Nomura's games), it's simply that what you actually get to walk around in does not suggest any of the fun shit that is in the background. It's like one of those amusement park rides where you have those flashy special effects and cardboard houses in the foreground, with little people that shuffle by and try to scare you. I mean, it suggests a haunted house maybe, but it's not very frightening because I'm not actually in it.

You're never actually in Nautilus or Eden (at least, half way through Chp12. Can't force myself through any more of this horrible chapter yet). You're merely in a walk way surrounded by a skin of Nautilus and Eden (or in Eden's case, a really ridiculously designed sky way walk thing, and retarded collapsed car tunnels where you can't jump over a pebble even though you have SUPAR JUMPING skillz. Fuck logic breaking in all games!)

In Eden there's this huge, breathtaking city... and there you are, hovering above it, ever at a distance.

The levels are bigger and expansive then FFX and Lost Odyssey.

If by "bigger" you merely mean scale, in that, the architecture surrounding the linear corridors has been upscaled, then sure. If you actually mean bigger and expansive in any other sense of the phrase, then no.

 

[firehawk12]

No, the theme is that humanity often falls into this but still has the power to fight it.

You'd be right if the game opened up when they all were determined to not be tools anymore, but it goes right back to being a tube straight after.

I agree with Cocoon needing to be sterile too.

But why does Pulse feel the same way despite being "wild" in direct contrast to Cocoon?

Look at it this way - when they finally realize their "destiny", they choose to rebel and the first thing we see in Chapter 12 is a

Spoiler

destroyed Cocoon

.

Gran Pulse exists as a failure of the Pulse humans who didn't or couldn't resist their brands - it's why it's a story of

Spoiler

redemption for Fang and Vanille

and is reflected by the barren nature of Pulse and of Oerba.

The ending is a

Spoiler

merging of both worlds, where Cocoon humans learn to shake off the shackles of living under the L'Cie and setting on Pulse. It's why Fang and Vanille are the ones to "sacrifice themselves" and presumably why the two worlds are quite literally connected.

.

If you want to be even more fanwanky about it,

Spoiler

the crystal that connects the two worlds could symbolize both the permanence and fragile nature of the future that humanity has in this world

.

I mean, that's just my 5 minute reading of the game based on the level/art design.

I'm not saying that Square is Valve and that they're masters of storytelling their diegetic narrative through level/art design, but I think there's something you can read in the levels if you choose to do so.

Edit: Also, I need to stop and just get back to playing Orphan Sim 3: The story of Kazama Kiryu. :lol

 

[Magnus]

You're never actually in Nautilus or Eden (at least, half way through Chp12. Can't force myself through any more of this horrible chapter yet). You're merely in a walk way surrounded by a skin of Nautilus and Eden (or in Eden's case, a really ridiculously designed sky way walk thing, and retarded collapsed car tunnels where you can't jump over a pebble even though you have SUPAR JUMPING skillz. Fuck logic breaking in all games!)

This passage spoke to me. This is exactly how I felt in every chapter except for Chapter 11. Like I was on a fucking holodeck, and the images were changing around me, but I was in the same tunnel, the same room. I don't know how a game with such magnificent visuals managed to manufacture such a disconnect for me, but I felt it. I was so amazingly hyped for this game, and knew very little about it construction ahead of time, so I don't want any snipes at "OH YOU WENT IN BIASED LULZ". I just know what I felt as I played it. Cocoon never mattered.

 

[ZeoVGM]

No it doesn't matter. You can go back to the missions at any time and 5-star them (and still get the same reward).

Oh okay, so it's basically there to brag about dick size. Nice.

For Adamantoises, after you summon and knock them down, you casts buffs on yourself (Brave, Faith, Haste) and debuffs on the enemy (Deshell, Deprotect, Imperil). Then you switch to RAV/RAV/RAV, get the stagger to 999 and then COM/COM/RAV to finish it off.

If you can't do that in one knockdown, then chances are you are too weak. Genji gloves are almost a must with this strategy.

Ranking on the missions do not matter - they effect the drop rate of the enemy and there's an achievement for 5-starring all missions, but that's about it.

Oh, awesome. Thanks.

And there's an achievement for that? Shiiiit.

 

[Amir0x]

This passage spoke to me. This is exactly how I felt in every chapter except for Chapter 11. Like I was on a fucking holodeck, and the images were changing around me, but I was in the same tunnel, the same room. I don't know how a game with such magnificent visuals managed to manufacture such a disconnect for me, but I felt it. I was so amazingly hyped for this game, and knew very little about it construction ahead of time, so I don't want any snipes at "OH YOU WENT IN BIASED LULZ". I just know what I felt as I played it. Cocoon never mattered.

Ooo that's a really, really perfect metaphor. "Like I was on a fucking holodeck, and the images were changing around me, but I was in the same tunnel, the same room."

Exactly! That is the perfect way to convey how every level of FFXIII feels outside of GP.

 

[Crash Station]

Ooo that's a really, really perfect metaphor. "Like I was on a fucking holodeck, and the images were changing around me, but I was in the same tunnel, the same room."

Exactly! That is the perfect way to convey how every level of FFXIII feels outside of GP.

Just to be clear, is the lack of being able to interact with the environment the reason you feel this way or is it the linearity?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Just to be clear, is the lack of being able to interact with the environment the reason you feel this way or is it the linearity?

Seems to be both.

 

[BocoDragon]

Yes, because they could have replaced the background with a picture of a giant "banana", and that's what it would have been like to actually walk around these locations. It's not that the basic art design is not fine (even though I don't like the impracticality of virtually everything in FFXIII's world, and most of Nomura's games), it's simply that what you actually get to walk around in does not suggest any of the fun shit that is in the background. It's like one of those amusement park rides where you have those flashy special effects and cardboard houses in the foreground, with little people that shuffle by and try to scare you. I mean, it suggests a haunted house maybe, but it's not very frightening because I'm not actually in it.

You're never actually in Nautilus or Eden (at least, half way through Chp12. Can't force myself through any more of this horrible chapter yet). You're merely in a walk way surrounded by a skin of Nautilus and Eden (or in Eden's case, a really ridiculously designed sky way walk thing, and retarded collapsed car tunnels where you can't jump over a pebble even though you have SUPAR JUMPING skillz. Fuck logic breaking in all games!)

In Eden there's this huge, breathtaking city... and there you are, hovering above it, ever at a distance.

This is all quite accurate.. And I would say that XIII is actually worse than an amusement park ride or a light gun shooter on rails because at least those use the opportunity of the guided experience to throw thrilling events at you... A boulder chases you in the Indy Jones ride, you're abushed in the middle of the airport in Time Crisis by a helicopter, etc. XIII has surprisingly few scrpted events along the tube.. Just battles and, if anything really occurs at all, a cutscene. They could have done something with the ultra-linear format, but it really is just less than what we had before.

It most resembles a tour through a historical house, where you walk between the velvet ropes and just observe fully set dinner tables and well kept bedrooms that you can't actually interact with.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Just to be clear, is the lack of being able to interact with the environment the reason you feel this way or is it the linearity?

You could interact with the Chocobos, if that counts (in Nautilus)

 

[firehawk12]

And there's an achievement for that? Shiiiit.

Yeah. If you are going for it, you might as well try to 5 star as many as you can. There's an item you get from mission 64 that will help you with that, but even then, for the most part I just used deciptisols to ambush dudes and wipe them out.

It's sad, but by the time you power up your characters, the "Par time" is down to seconds. :lol