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Final Fantasy XIII |OT|

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Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Amir0x said:
Yeah this game sure is traditional alright. It's the least traditional RPG in the entire FF franchise!

Anyway, now you're whining there are too many haters. But it wasn't too long ago you were all trying to chase me and others away for not playing 30 hours into this tedious experience just to get a glimpse of Gran Pulse and the 10 or-so odd hours of even remotely decent game design.

"Oh, you can't say that until you play!" Now we play and you don't want to hear what we say.

This a thread for lovers and haters. All official threads are. If you can't take the heat when a few pages turn negative, then you're not allowed to comment when it's a love-in either and the haters are trying to have their voice heard.

Really interesting to see what some people consider a tedious experience.
Gran Pulse was a nice change of pacing & I enjoyed it to a point, but I stopped playing for a few days because of it.
It's just a large & near endless grind with nothing else to do, feels like FF12 in that. To me, THAT is tedious & boring.
 
I don't mind the criticism. But some of the hyperbole is out of hand.

Once someone starts to use hyperbole to augment their criticism, I pretty much ignore all of their opinions on the game. Not just FF13 per se.
 
FTWer said:
Pretty much, I barely come by here anymore because it's just the same 6 or so people posting/whining over & over & over about the exact same things.
This is the best FF game since FF9 & 10 & the best traditional Japanese RPG released in years besides Lost Lost Odyssey.

More like you barely come here because your arguments against other RPGs involve blatant lying and you never bother to explain or back them up. :lol
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Amir0x said:
Yeah this game sure is traditional alright. It's the least traditional RPG in the entire FF franchise!

Anyway, now you're whining there are too many haters. But it wasn't too long ago you were all trying to chase me and others away for not playing 30 hours into this tedious experience just to get a glimpse of Gran Pulse and the 10 or-so odd hours of even remotely decent game design.

"Oh, you can't say that until you play!" Now we play and you don't want to hear what we say.

This a thread for lovers and haters. All official threads are. If you can't take the heat when a few pages turn negative, then you're not allowed to comment when it's a love-in either and the haters are trying to have their voice heard.
Sorry but you still should have played the game before stating a public bias against it. It would have lent your final assesment so much more weight.

Prejudice isn't justified just because it happens to have turned out correctly. It's like if a KKK member has his car broken into by a black guy and then says "see? I was right!".
 

Dresden

Member
Gran Pulse was boring, but the slog through chapters 9 and 10 was probably the worst thing about the game. The game's either forcing you to crawl through endless one-way corridors or setting you loose in a single player MMO world to do simplistic missions while grinding for hours upon hours just to get cash and materials.
 

Ricker

Member
It;s always like that though,5 people will say they loved the game and finished it,then 1 guy complains about the game and people remember the complainer and you get a 7th post with someone saying people think the game sucks hehe...overall,I think more people loved the game here...
 
Ricker said:
It;s always like that though,5 people will say they loved the game and finished it,then 1 guy complains about the game and people remember the complainer and you get a 7th post with someone saying people think the game sucks hehe...overall,I think more people loved the game here...

Yeah.

They've most likely just left because they have other games to play.

Or there are people who actually like the game but find it's flaws too glaring to not comment on.
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Dresden said:
Gran Pulse was boring, but the slog through chapters 9 and 10 was probably the worst thing about the game. The game's either forcing you to crawl through endless one-way corridors or setting you loose in a single player MMO world to do simplistic missions while grinding for hours upon hours just to get cash and materials.

Forcing me to play the game, well hot damn. :lol
 

Amir0x

Banned
FTWer said:
Really interesting to see what some people consider a tedious experience.

I don't see what's so interesting about it. Here's a game which is a string of corridors for the first 60% of the game (so bad is this corridor design that if you were to look at a map and see a deviation from the road, you automatically know there is a treasure chest there). In these corridors, you have some hilariously mediocre scripted events tied to abysmal storytelling and extremely limited battle functions as the game refuses to let go of its grasp of the gamer. There is no control over the proceedings, everything can be five starred by auto battling, and you don't even have a remote say into what horrible duo the game is going to place in your party for this huge majority of the game.

This takes place for over TWENTY HOURS.

I can understand why people like the game. But I don't think it's interesting at all why people find it tedious. It cannot possibly be more obvious.


FTWer said:
Gran Pulse was a nice change of pacing & I enjoyed it to a point, but I stopped playing for a few days because of it.
It's just a large & near endless grind with nothing else to do, feels like FF12 in that. To me, THAT is tedious & boring.

There's no grinding whatsoever. It is, directly, a do-whatever-you-want location. Whilst still retaining FFXIII's signature battle system and art direction. We discussed this already (I think it was you) and we landed on "you have a self-control issue."

You can fight as much or as little as you want. If you were bored of Gran Pulse, you could avoid almost all of it immediately and head straight to the caves. Needless to say, the fact that it's an "endless grind and nothing else to do" is systemic of the problem all of FFXIII has... in that there is NO VARIETY ANYWHERE. So it does not surprise me that this followed into Gran Pulse.

What surprises me is that suddenly this lack of variety began to annoy you in this open area, but again doesn't when you go back on the corridor rail track RPG design.

At least in Gran Pulse, you have a wide range of possible battles to tackle, and a wide range of hunts and areas to visit. This is a dramatic improvement from the rest of the game, where FFXIII is trying to suffocate the gamer to death.
 
marathonfool said:
I don't mind the criticism. But some of the hyperbole is out of hand.

Once someone starts to use hyperbole to augment their criticism, I pretty much ignore all of their opinions on the game. Not just FF13 per se.
Or equating personal opinions with fact, which occasionally pops up too, as though anyone who likes the game better than [insert FF game here] is wrong or misguided.

FTWer said:
Pretty much, I barely come by here anymore because it's just the same 6 or so people posting/whining over & over & over about the exact same things.
This is the best FF game since FF9 & 10 & the best traditional Japanese RPG released in years besides Lost Lost Odyssey.
By "traditional" I assume you mean that it's not an SRPG or an ARPG? Because otherwise this game is one of the least traditional JRPGs I've played in years.

FF6, Lost Odyssey... what comparisons will they come up with next?
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Ricker said:
...overall,I think more people loved the game here...

Considering the official gaf FF12 thread had something like 5,000 posts & this one has 15,000 (even if Himuro took up a thousand of those posts)... I'd say yes.
 
About the story:

Up to chapter 12

In chapter 3, Light already wants to go to Eden and kill Eden (or Orphan, or any Fal'Cie who they find). But somehow they decided not to do it, because that will destroy Cocoon. Team splits, team reunites. Balthanders say that they have to destroy Orphan to destroy the world and create a new one (he can't do it because... well, because fal'cie can't attack fal'cie, something about the three laws of robotics).

But the team don't want to do it. Then, they decide to go to Pulse to... ehh... I don't find any excuse. Basicly a tourist trip to see Vanille town, looking for ¿clues?

But then they find Balthanders again and he said (again) that they have to destroy Orphan, in Eden. But party disagree and they say that they won't destroy Orphan. Instead of remaining in Pulse, they go to Eden to NO destroy Orphan.

Chapter 12.

Then, they find that Chavalry wants to destroy Orphan (and that will destroy Cocoon). So well, they go to Orphan place. But then, they see that Chavalry are now Cieth, so Orphan is save. Then, they decide to visit Orphan in order to NO kill him.

Chapter 13 and ending

So, they go inside and they kill Balthanders. And then Orphan appears. Yeah, that "Orphan that they don't have to kill or Cocoon will be destroyed". So, they attack Orphan.

Orphan turns half of the party in Cieth, Fang get angry and turns supersaiyan, and the Cieth guys magically are normal again. Party attacks Orphan again and they kill him.

So Cocoon is going to be destroyed, because of no fal'cie to keep it floating. Vanille and Fang turns supersaiyan and make a fusion. They first burn Cocoon and later freeze it, but somehow without killing anyone. They made a pillar of ice from the lava that keeps Cocoon in the air.

The rest of the party go to Pulse and become crystal. They spend being crystal like ten minutes and back to normal, and they see that people is coming from Cocoon to Pulse (because, of course, Pulse is a much safer place than the new Cocoon) and Sazh son and Serah appears magically.

I understood it correctly?
 
FTWer said:
Considering the official gaf FF12 thread had something like 5,000 posts & this one has 15,000 (even if Himuro took up a thousand of those posts)... I'd say yes.

But didn't you say that most of the posts in this thread were negative posters just now? Not to mention that GAF has way more members now than back then.

Oops? :lol
 
i just wanna know right now, is much of the gameworlds lore simply left unexplained?

the move from chapter 11 -> 12 has really bothered me and left a bad taste in my mouth. which sucks because i was enjoying the game.
 

Amir0x

Banned
BocoDragon said:
Sorry but you still should have played the game before stating a public bias against it. It would have lent your final assesment so much more weight.

Prejudice isn't justified just because it happens to have turned out correctly. It's like if a KKK member has his car broken into by a black guy and then says "see? I was right!".

Sorry I was going to ignore this but then you compared pre-judging a game to racism.

This is by far the worst analogy I've ever read, and you should genuinely feel bad for saying it. I've been on GAF a long time and though this post doesn't offend me personally, I honestly feel embarrassed for you that anyone could have legitimately posted such a comment.

To your comment, directly, my opinion has as much weight as I want it to have. That weight is not determined by how many other people prefer to keep their ears open for it. I knew what FFXIII was explicitly, and you were factually incorrect to infer that the game was somehow different when you actually play it. You were wrong, I was right. Big surprise. That said, I don't care anymore because this conversation is old hat. What isn't old hat is your analogy...

...i mean god fucking damn
 

Amir0x

Banned
FTWer said:
Considering the official gaf FF12 thread had something like 5,000 posts & this one has 15,000 (even if Himuro took up a thousand of those posts)... I'd say yes.

Dumb comparison. Even back to FF12's release, GAF had a smaller userbase and threads often struggled to hit 10,000. We're now probably double or more the registered users than we had at that time (not actual numbers, just a guesstimate). Additionally, FFXIII has multiplatform support, which makes it of interest to two sets of fanboys.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Ricker said:
overall,I think more people loved the game here...
We should start a poll of some sort...


Ready, go!


Dislike: +1
:lol

I was indifferent, but now I think I just don't like this game.
 
FTWer said:
Forcing me to play the game, well hot damn. :lol
You're right. All of Final Fantasy XIII's design flaws can be remedied by not playing the game which, hey, is something the game shares in common with every other game ever made. This doesn't mean they're not flaws, however.

Not to mention that, let's say I want to play this game and enjoy it, but the existence of corridor-like design - which barely qualifies as level design because the levels are there for no other purpose than to look pretty and could be removed without harming the game a bit - hinders my enjoyment in spite of the graphics, music, battles, etc. I still want to enjoy these things, so turning the game off is not really an option. Why shouldn't the game have some sort of variety in level design aside from switching styles completely 1/2 of the way through? Why can I not criticize it for fumbling such a basic aspect of game design?
 

Zen

Banned
Just go back and tabulate 15k worth of posters impressions into positive or negative.

This is the best FF game in years.
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Amir0x said:
I don't see what's so interesting about it. Here's a game which is a string of corridors for the first 60% of the game (so bad is this corridor design that if you were to look at a map and see a deviation from the road, you automatically know there is a treasure chest there).

My memory must be hazy, because I remember nearly every jRPG being the same.
If you say screw it & just look at a hand drawn map of most of them, they're all just a string of corridors with deviation from them that lead to a treasure.
They have some towns & a world map thrown in-between depending on the story progression of them.

How many JRPGS have had truly open gameplay with them? I'm talking about large open optional areas to explore at your own pace like the Elder Scroll/Fallout games (Not counting mini-overworld's with giant characters)?
FFXII & DQVIII are the closest two I can think of.


In these corridors, you have some hilariously mediocre scripted events tied to abysmal storytelling

Opinions, I still think it's head & shoulders above 99% of the crap that comes from Japan.

and you don't even have a remote say into what horrible duo the game is going to place in your party for this huge majority of the game.

This takes place for over TWENTY HOURS.

This I can agree, the pacing was not good. Being forced to have two set characters for that long & Gran Pulse being opened up nearly half way through. Those are pretty much my biggest problems with the game, but they weren't dealbreakers. Just lowered my opinion of a high 9 game to something of a mid 8 to low 9 score-ish game.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I mentioned this early, but the level design in something like FFXIII would be improved a lot if the locations made sense or had anything in them.

People compare FFXIII's linear level design to, say, Mass Effect 2's linear level design. On the surface, the comparison is apt - you do indeed follow guided courses and there is often little deviation.

But in Mass Effect 2, locations are littered with objects, flora and fauna, base camps with beakers, documents and rich history. In other words, there is a tangible sense of world building EVEN when you're on a linear course.

In FFXIII, to compare, shit makes no sense. You're always behind a glass, looking out. In Gapra Whitewood, you see all these really pretty crystalline trees, but outside of when you gotta jump off a path, you never interact with any of it. It's just little contained bins, peppered with monsters to slow you down so the game can add time.

Most of all the levels are like this! Even places like Nautilus and Palumpolum are illusions; you can look out at the sights but never, ever touch!

In the Arc level, you're literally going through cavernous empty room after cavernous empty room, with no indication why any race of retarded Gods would want to make such impractical locations which hold nothing. The rooms would make terrible storage facilities for armies the way they are designed!

There's rarely any boxes, no graffiti, no indication that any of this isn't just a really sad rollercoaster, a rubber cage for the jRPG deprived. No indication that any of these locations have ever been lived in. Or time-worn. It might as well just be a background skin. New to FFXV, import your own jpg backgrounds?
 
Zen said:
Just go back and tabulate 15k worth of posters impressions into positive or negative.
He is right about most of the posts being from a fairly small group of posters, so this thread wouldn't get you anywhere near 15k separate impressions.

And what does it matter anyway? Amongst the fanbase every game has its haters and fans, even if those two are in an unequal proportion.
 
FTWer said:
How many JRPGS have had truly open gameplay with them? I'm talking about large open optional areas to explore at your own pace like the Elder Scroll/Fallout games (Not counting mini-overworld's with giant characters)?
FFXII & DQVIII are the closest two I can think of.

This isn't about being completely open. This is about just how linear XIII is.

And it really really is.

FTWer said:
Opinions, I still think it's head & shoulders above 99% of the crap that comes from Japan.

You must not play much from Japan.
 
ZephyrFate said:
Gran Pulse has all sorts of flora and fauna, and they actually look nice instead of UE3-plastic-shitcakes.

Nobody is arguing against XIII's graphics, they are really beautiful if a bit sterile at times.
 

Amir0x

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
Gran Pulse has all sorts of flora and fauna, and they actually look nice instead of UE3-plastic-shitcakes.

Another Japanese developer obsessive jealous that western devs know how to appropriately use shaders. tsc tsc.

Right, well we've all established than Gran Pulse is the only exception to these rules about the horrific linear corridor empty shell design, so you're arguing against yourself.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Dries said:
I like the story because of the social aspect. 6 strangers (kinda strangers at least) are forced to work together and survive. Kinda like LOST. I'm in Chapter 4 now and can't wait to see how the story will progress.

Chapter 7 will kick your ass if that's why you enjoy the story. It's so good.

On that note, I just started chapter 11 so I got to
Gran Pulse
. I'm adoring this game. The battle system is so great. Time to start some missions.
 
Himuro said:
A bunch of boring monsters and talking dead people that are floating stones who want me to fulfill their mission before they turned into monsters.

So...exciting.

IT could have had some people though the stone giants made up for it. If we include the monsters in the town, then I will agree and say they were boring as well. Otherwise some monsters have their moments, those cacti, the amphibious creatures, etc.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
Ok, I was bitching before about not getting 5 stars after battles even though I performed it perfectly.

Apparently, if you put the battle speed on slow, the timer doesnt slow down which I had no idea about.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I think Gran Pulse is a good start for the level design. Of course, the monsters were too scripted. Running around in the same circle forever, or fighting the same monsters forever. It's next-gen! Let's up the ante a little bit and really get creative with how monsters move around the field.

If they had a few fields of Gran Pulse's size, and added a bit more variety in between, it could have been really special.

Could have, could have...
 

Zen

Banned
icarus-daedelus said:
He is right about most of the posts being from a fairly small group of posters, so this thread wouldn't get you anywhere near 15k separate impressions.

And what does it matter anyway? Amongst the fanbase every game has its haters and fans, even if those two are in an unequal proportion.

Statistics are god!

In all seriousness, if the search function was working, it would be as simple as clicking the post count beside the thread, and then searching each posters comments.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Amir0x said:
I mentioned this early, but the level design in something like FFXIII would be improved a lot if the locations made sense or had anything in them.

People compare FFXIII's linear level design to, say, Mass Effect 2's linear level design. On the surface, the comparison is apt - you do indeed follow guided courses and there is often little deviation.

But in Mass Effect 2, locations are littered with objects, flora and fauna, base camps with beakers, documents and rich history. In other words, there is a tangible sense of world building EVEN when you're on a linear course.

In FFXIII, to compare, shit makes no sense. You're always behind a glass, looking out. In Gapra Whitewood, you see all these really pretty crystalline trees, but outside of when you gotta jump off a path, you never interact with any of it. It's just little contained bins, peppered with monsters to slow you down so the game can add time.

Most of all the levels are like this! Even places like Nautilus and Palumpolum are illusions; you can look out at the sights but never, ever touch!

In the Arc level, you're literally going through cavernous empty room after cavernous empty room, with no indication why any race of retarded Gods would want to make such impractical locations which hold nothing. The rooms would make terrible storage facilities for armies the way they are designed!

There's rarely any boxes, no graffiti, no indication that any of this isn't just a really sad rollercoaster, a rubber cage for the jRPG deprived. No indication that any of these locations have ever been lived in. Or time-worn. It might as well just be a background skin. New to FFXV, import your own jpg backgrounds?

You know, I think you're looking at ME2 with rose-coloured glasses, because if you change a few words, your criticisms of FF13 are just criticisms of ME2.

There are so many times when ME2 maps just turn into arenas where you have to slowly trudge through the randomly placed chest high walls in order to kill the enemies. On par, I'd say the design of the levels are about as inspired as the ones in FF13. Whether that's a good or bad thing? Well, I'll leave that up to someone else to decide I guess.
 
Fimbulvetr said:
Nobody is arguing against XIII's graphics, they are really beautiful if a bit sterile at times.
It makes sense on one hand because Cocoon is supposed to be highly controlled and babied by its fal'Cie, but OTOH it makes no sense because one of the first locations you walk through is a big garbage heap that no one ever bothered to clean up. :lol

And then there's Pulse, which I guess Titan keeps clean in between Adamantoise meals because he's got nothing else to do, or something.
 

Magnus

Member
All of this discussion and frustration is having a bizarre side effect on me.

It's making me want to play the game again. I have no idea why.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Magnus said:
All of this discussion and frustration is having a bizarre side effect on me.

It's making me want to play the game again. I have no idea why.
This! :lol
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Magnus said:
All of this discussion and frustration is having a bizarre side effect on me.

It's making me want to play the game again. I have no idea why.

:lol

Bow down to your Nomura overlord.

I'm playing this damn game until I get 100% gamerscore.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Amir0x said:
Sorry I was going to ignore this but then you compared pre-judging a game to racism.

This is by far the worst analogy I've ever read, and you should genuinely feel bad for saying it. I've been on GAF a long time and though this post doesn't offend me personally, I honestly feel embarrassed for you that anyone could have legitimately posted such a comment.

To your comment, directly, my opinion has as much weight as I want it to have. That weight is not determined by how many other people prefer to keep their ears open for it. I knew what FFXIII was explicitly, and you were factually incorrect to infer that the game was somehow different when you actually play it. You were wrong, I was right. Big surprise. That said, I don't care anymore because this conversation is old hat. What isn't old hat is your analogy...

...i mean god fucking damn
Yes I did compare prejudging a game with prejudging a person.

One is far more serious than the other.

They are both the same awful logic. Judging before knowing.

In both cases the one who makes prejudiced statements isn't "correct" just because his preconceptions have come true.

If I say it's going to rain next Tuesday, and it does actually rain, I wasn't correct about that statement. I had no knowlege of the truth.. It was a guess that happened to come true. And it would be extremely bad form to come back next Tuesday and tell people "I told you so.. How dare you ask me to wait and see before! I was right!" which is essentially the content of your recent post that I responded to.
 
Himuro said:
A bunch of boring monsters and talking dead people that are floating stones who want me to fulfill their mission before they turned into monsters.

So...exciting.
I'm sorry you never paid attention to ANY of the butterflies and birds and small critters running around in places such as the Yaschas Massif.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
^ Butterflies aren't enough to save a game :p
Fimbulvetr said:
Nobody is arguing against XIII's graphics, they are really beautiful if a bit sterile at times.
I think I was arguing against this a few days ago, there were maybe two times where I was memorized, but mostly I was just ... "ewww" and "ughh" and "who picked these colors?" and "is that honestly supposed to be grass?" :D
 
Well maybe its just my bias to the Japanese look but FFXIII is perhaps the most impressive looking console game I've played.

Though I think Red Dead may take that.
 

Amir0x

Banned
BocoDragon said:
If I say it's going to rain next Tuesday, and it does actually rain, I wasn't correct about that statement. I had no knowlege of the truth.. It was a guess that happened to come true. And it would be extremely bad form to come back next Tuesday and tell people "I told you so.. How dare you ask me to wait and see before! I was right!" which is essentially the content of your recent post that I responded to.

Your logic fails because I never guessed. I always KNEW what was in FFXIII. I knew it, down to the last little detail. I knew exactly what was in FFXIII, and I knew how my tastes react to such things.

It is a fact the way FFXIII was, and it was a fact that there was no chance for me to love it. But, to suppress the stupidity of people saying detractors had to force themselves to play through something that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is not for me simply to have a valid opinion in this thread, I wasted my money.

One guesses there might be rain next week based on some fairly good weather charts. One KNOWS whether they will like something or not based on how a game is designed. The only way you don't is if you fail to uncover some vital information about a game or if you're untruthful with your own tastes.

I am extremely honest with myself. I knew all the details about FFXIII. There was no guesses. I know what I like.
 
BocoDragon said:
Yes I did compare prejudging a game with prejudging a person.

One is far more serious than the other.

They are both the same awful logic. Judging before knowing.

In both cases the one who makes prejudiced statements isn't "correct" just because his preconceptions have come true.

That makes no sense.

There are many different people in the world with different qualities that are good or bad regardless of skin color.

Just because one black guy is an ass doesn't mean the next black guy you meet can't end up being a close friend because he is the complete opposite of a guy you met.

On the other hand if one copy of FFXIII has these specific flaws; buying another copy won't erase those flaws.

They will never go away. Meaning making the claim "I hate black people cause they *insert stereotype*" is different than "I hate XIII because of its linearity and bad writing".

BocoDragon said:
If I say it's going to rain next Tuesday, and it does actually rain, I wasn't correct about that statement. I had no knowlege of the truth.. It was a guess that happened to come true. And it would be extremely bad form to come back next Tuesday and tell people "I told you so.. How dare you ask me to wait and see before! I was right!" which is essentially the content of your recent post that I responded to.

Yes you were correct when you said it would rain, because it did.

You'd be wrong if you said you could make it rain or that you could predict the weather but you were still right that it would rain on that day.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Amir0x said:
Your logic fails because I never guessed. I always KNEW what was in FFXIII. I knew it, down to the last little detail. I knew exactly what was in FFXIII, and I knew how my tastes react to such things.

It is a fact the way FFXIII was, and it was a fact that there was no chance for me to love it. But, to suppress the stupidity of people saying detractors had to force themselves to play through something that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is not for me simply to have a valid opinion in this thread, I wasted my money.

One guesses there might be rain next week based on some fairly good weather charts. One KNOWS whether they will like something or not based on how a game is designed. The only way you don't is if you fail to uncover some vital information about a game or if you're untruthful with your own tastes.

I am extremely honest with myself. I knew all the details about FFXIII. There was no guesses. I know what I like.
Something about this post... I understand what you're saying. There are still things I could argue in that but at least I see where you're coming from. I have a desire to end our ever ongoing argument here :)
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Fimbulvetr said:
That makes no sense.

There are many different people in the world with different qualities that are good or bad regardless of skin color.

Just because one black guy is an ass doesn't mean the next black guy you meet can't end up being a close friend because he is the complete opposite of a guy you met.

On the other hand if one copy of FFXIII has these specific flaws; buying another copy won't erase those flaws.

They will never go away. Meaning making the claim "I hate black people cause they *insert stereotype*" is different than "I hate XIII because of its linearity and bad writing".
I don't think you're quite modelling my argument correctly.

It's just "don't judge a book by it's cover". That applies to games, people... And of course books.

Fimbulvetr said:
Yes you were correct when you said it would rain, because it did.

You'd be wrong if you said you could make it rain or that you could predict the weather but you were still right that it would rain on that day.

right so you were "correct". But you can't say that you had "knowlege" of this being true.

And the only reason you would gloat later on is because you had knowlege. Being accidentally correct is not laudable.
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Amir0x said:
I mentioned this early, but the level design in something like FFXIII would be improved a lot if the locations made sense or had anything in them.

Well at the start, they are on the run. They're not going to set out exploring a specific secret dungeon for some loot when they are being hunted. it makes complete sense storywise that are going through jungles & mountainous roads at the start.



People compare FFXIII's linear level design to, say, Mass Effect 2's linear level design. On the surface, the comparison is apt - you do indeed follow guided courses and there is often little deviation.

But in Mass Effect 2, locations are littered with objects, flora and fauna, base camps with beakers, documents and rich history. In other words, there is a tangible sense of world building EVEN when you're on a linear course.

In FFXIII, to compare, shit makes no sense. You're always behind a glass, looking out. In Gapra Whitewood, you see all these really pretty crystalline trees, but outside of when you gotta jump off a path, you never interact with any of it. It's just little contained bins, peppered with monsters to slow you down so the game can add time.

I still can't see how this is different from most jRPGS. They don't have intricate & interactive level design.
Compare a Tomb Raider Tomb or a Zelda dungeon, with their puzzles, layers of various design & progression to any of the 2D FF game dungeon. In FF, all you are doing is going through one set linear path with some equally as linear branches that just lead to a treasure chest.
Sometimes there is diversion/mini-game thrown in between, which FFXIII also has. I don't see how it is so different at all other than the pacing & streamlining of towns.
 
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