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[Amir0x]

Just to be clear, is the lack of being able to interact with the environment the reason you feel this way or is it the linearity?

It's a combination of things. It is not just the linearity, no. In fact, we're discussing ways they could have improved the level design while keeping the linear structure.

If people like the linear design, then one thing they could surely agree on is the need to create believable linear structures, this feeling that a place has been lived in. FFXIII's corridors are nearly all empty, sterile bits of architecture, repeating sky ways and repeating under ways. It feels incredibly fake.

One wishes to travel around a world with appropriate world building. One way to do this, even if you don't have towns, is by making the paths you walk tangible and believable. And to do this I'm suggesting that they need to up the amount of detritus, the evidence that people have been here and lived and will still live there once I leave. Laboratories with beakers and documents and garbage strewn on the floor that suggests something about the person who performed tests there. Shit like that.

In FFXIII, we have a floating walkway through a crystal forest. There's a forest out there, I guess. Supposedly. But you could have fooled me. If you would place a picture of a penis in the background, I would not have been able to tell the difference.

This is all quite accurate.. And I would say that XIII is actually worse than an amusement park ride or a light gun shooter on rails because at least those use the opportunity of the guided experience to throw thrilling events at you... A boulder chases you in the Indy Jones ride, you're abushed in the middle of the airport in Time Crisis by a helicopter, etc. XIII has surprisingly few scrpted events along the tube.. Just battles and, if anything really occurs at all, a cutscene. They could have done something with the ultra-linear format, but it really is just less than what we had before.

It most resembles a tour through a historical house, where you walk between the velvet ropes and just observe fully set dinner tables and well kept bedrooms that you can't actually interact with.

Yeah. I just think FFXIII is a million great ideas, coupled to a million bad executions. It's so infuriating :lol

 

[Crash Station]

Seems to be both.

I just find it interesting because a lot of games have sterile backgrounds and could easily be compared to a "holo-deck". I guess it isn't exactly common in RPGs, especially these days.

 

[Magnus]

In FFXIII, we have a floating walkway through a crystal forest. There's a forest out there, I guess. Supposedly. But you could have fooled me. If you would place a picture of a penis in the background, I would not have been able to tell the difference.

That was what turned a potentially neat area (the Gapra Whitewood) into something so forgettable. "Follow the lights!" along endlessly repeating Y-shaped paths that carve their way artificially through a pretty forest. It was sterile, inorganic, and ultimately, emblematic of Cocoon.

I can't quite properly articulate what created the holodeck sensation, but amirox mentioned a few things that speak to what I'm trying to say. It's very fake, very perfect. I'm imagining the utter ruins of the city in Nepal as a way to make a linear environment totally organic and believable. Limited (though meaningful) interactivity, the sensation that the environment has been lived in, some wear and tear, and ultimately, some needed variety in physical level design.

 

[dramatis]

The story is not the reason why the game is designed the way it is. It's a deliberate design choice, true, partially due to limitations of time (they didn't have enough time to make the content after spending all that time making the engine, they said as much), and it's partially due to the strong desire to strip away anything that takes players away from cutscenes and battles. This is a design decision, a bad one, but it is what it is. If they wanted to, they could have fit a breather into any part. Just like they arbitrarily decided in Gapra Whitewood that magically the soldiers weren't chasing them hard anymore for a time.

I agree with a lot of the things you said, except for this. I honestly think the design decisions and final product were built half around technical limitations, and half around the story. When you think about how they built the character models, they built the models for storytelling (hence shitty fingers and shoulders). When you think about Nautilus, and Eden where

Spoiler

Lightning's trailer scenes happen

, you know they were just making setpieces for where their story was going to take place, regardless of whether it matters or not. When you think about how much effort they put into NPCs (read: none) and instead dumped all their world into blocks of text in the menu, then you know their focus was on their characters and their characters' stories.

When I look at the concept art for this game, I think about how epic the artists wanted this world to be but instead we had a story that was a soap opera trying to be epic and failing miserably, and thus completely out of sync with the world.

Kamikokuryou, the art director, even spent a month painting a magnificent concept of Lightning falling from the sky over Eden; instead Toriyama wrote

Spoiler

a cowardly genki girl as the main character instead

.

In FFXIII, we have a floating walkway through a crystal forest. There's a forest out there, I guess. Supposedly. But you could have fooled me. If you would place a picture of a penis in the background, I would not have been able to tell the difference.

Why I say technical limitations may be the other half is because I saw the original concept art for some areas, like Vile Peaks and Gapra Whitewood, which look almost completely different from their in-game counterparts. The Gapra Whitewood, for instance, originally didn't even have the walkways; the concept showed ground-level bio-mechanical foilage, with tree roots.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Aside from the linearity, Lake Bresha and Gapra Whitewood are awesome.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Aside from the linearity, Lake Bresha and Gapra Whitewood are awesome.

Bresha was awesome to me once we got out of all that blue crystal, it was too much, the music track was/is hot though.

 

[Fun Factor]

In FFXIII, we have a floating walkway through a crystal forest. There's a forest out there, I guess. Supposedly. But you could have fooled me. If you would place a picture of a penis in the background, I would not have been able to tell the difference.

Again, how is this different from any JRPG?
I'm walking through a forest pathway in FF6, 7, 8, 9, a Tales game or whatever & if they replaced the background/textures whatnot to a futuristic spaceship. How would they be different than than this game?

 

[StuBurns]

My PS3 has been dead so I've not been able to play till today. My replacement got here around lunch, I sat down and played thru Heavy Rain, had some time left over before my need for sleep kicks in so I just got my first (non-demo) taste of FFXIII. I just played maybe an hour or more. So far it's been much more of a chaperoning experience, rather than a playing one, but I've enjoyed it, and it's so pretty. One question, are Vanille and Hope both meant to be around the same age and both very young? Before tonight, I assumed Vanille was an adult.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

My PS3 has been dead so I've not been able to play till today. My replacement got here around lunch, I sat down and played thru Heavy Rain, had some time left over before my need for sleep kicks in so I just got my first (non-demo) taste of FFXIII. I just played maybe an hour or more. So far it's been much more of a chaperoning experience, rather than a playing one, but I've enjoyed it, and it's so pretty. One question, are Vanille and Hope both meant to be around the same age and both very young? Before tonight, I assumed Vanille was an adult.

Spoiler

Technically Vanille should be around same age as Fang I assume since their partners. Though, their like hundreds of years old.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Bresha was awesome to me once we got out of all that blue crystal, it was too much, the music track was/is hot though.

I thought the blue crystal was simply stunning.

 

[User 10639]

My PS3 has been dead so I've not been able to play till today. My replacement got here around lunch, I sat down and played thru Heavy Rain, had some time left over before my need for sleep kicks in so I just got my first (non-demo) taste of FFXIII. I just played maybe an hour or more. So far it's been much more of a chaperoning experience, rather than a playing one, but I've enjoyed it, and it's so pretty. One question, are Vanille and Hope both meant to be around the same age and both very young? Before tonight, I assumed Vanille was an adult.

Hope is supposed to be 14 and Vanille is 19.

 

[Babalu.]

Vanille 19?! WTF?!

*goes to punch random kitten*

 

[Doublethink]

Holy shit. I didn't realize Vanille was supposed to be 19. I thought she was more around 13.

 

[Mithel]

I just want to hurry and beat the game before the trade-in value tanks. Ain't I a stinker? :lol

 

[Crash Station]

People are surprised Vanille is 19? I thought it was obvious she was in the 17-19 range.

I thought Hope on the other hand was 16 for some reason.

 

[Brazil]

Hope is supposed to be 14 and Vanille is 19.

Well, technically

Spoiler

she's over 500 years old

.

Holy shit. I didn't realize Vanille was supposed to be 19. I thought she was more around 13.

Have you seen a 13 year old girl? Better yet; have you seen a 13 year old girl as shown in JRPGs? Hell, she's 15!

 

[User 10639]

Holy shit. I didn't realize Vanille was supposed to be 19. I thought she was more around 13.

Yeah, and Serah is supposed to be 18. Clearly that age was exaggerated to make Snow look like less of a pedo. Didn't work, SE.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I'm afraid to post it here but here is a blog a friend and I are making/trying. I don't know anything about websites(I never even had a myspace), so the blog kind of sucks.

Anywhere I posted my impressions of FFXIII there while I was banned. I think its a fair impression of the game. I gave it an 8. Its no where near my final thoughts on the game.

http://rantbot.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/final-fantasy-xiii-review/#more-17

 

[Doublethink]

Have you seen a 13 year old girl? Better yet; have you seen a 13 year old girl as shown in JRPGs? Hell, she's 15!

I can't believe they tried to pass that off as 15:lol

 

[Crash Station]

When a woman says stuff like,"Ciao!!!" and makes meow noises what are you going to deduce to first: that she is 19 or that she's mentally ill?

Can't it be both :lol

 

[User 10639]

OK, this is driving me nuts: is it really "Mom's are tough" in the game itself or is that just a misplaced apostrophe that everyone keeps adding in?

 

[firehawk12]

When a woman says stuff like,"Ciao!!!" and makes meow noises what are you going to deduce to first: that she is 19 or that she's mentally ill?

Maybe that's what women spoke like centuries ago on Gran Pulse!

 

[firehawk12]

Snow would be right at home: Pedoland.

Mmm... Serah. :lol

 

[BocoDragon]

When a woman says stuff like,"Ciao!!!" and makes meow noises what are you going to deduce to first: that she is 19 or that she's mentally ill?

Wait a minute... Ciao is an odd thing to say? It means hello/goodbye in Italian, and it's been in English as a loan word for decades. Your point stands but ciao is not really some unrealistic cutesy thing to say..

 

[firehawk12]

Wait a minute... Ciao is an odd thing to say? It means hello/goodbye in Italian, and it's been in English as a loan word for decades. Your point stands but ciao is not really some unrealistic cutesy thing to say..

I think it's more like she says it like she's a character from a Japanese cartoon, which for all intent and purpose, she is. :lol

 

[BocoDragon]

I think it's more like she says it like she's a character from a Japanese cartoon, which for all intent and purpose, she is. :lol

Ok sure I see the actual point.

 

[hateradio]

Snow would be right at home: Pedoland Japan.

Fixed

Although they [probably] are synonymous.

 

[User 10639]

If I remember it is totally in there.

We need to get back to CODE WHITE.

WTF Himu, I thought we were on CODE PURPLE. You can't just jack it up to white like that unless times are desperate and you've gone through the rest of the colors of the rainbow first!

 

[Crash Station]

Guys, I have a confession to make. I thought the "moms are tough" line was totally awesome.

 

[Jakeh111]

Been playing this game for around 50 hours and I dont like it or dislike it, WHY AM I STILL PLAYING?!?!

 

[Crash Station]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkfI2_ovUuE

:lol

That one I thought was just stupid :lol

 

[Scythesurge]

Guys, I have a confession to make. I thought the "moms are tough" line was totally awesome.

Yeah I know I was like whoa

 

[BertramCooper]

GOOD FUCKING GOD.

Chapter 10 is awful. We're talking makes me want to throw the game in the garbage awful.

It never ends. It just keeps going and going. Same damn passageways and enemies over and over and over again.

Kill me now.

 

[ULTROS!]

Guys, I have a confession to make. I thought the "moms are tough" line was totally awesome.

That's nuthin.

You know what's even worse: I liked Sarah and Lymle from Star Ocean 4.

 

[Scythesurge]

That's nuthin.

You know what's even worse: I liked Sarah and Lymle from Star Ocean 4.

YOU WIN

 

[Papercuts]

GOOD FUCKING GOD.

Chapter 10 is awful. We're talking makes me want to throw the game in the garbage awful.

It never ends. It just keeps going and going. Same damn passageways and enemies over and over and over again.

Kill me now.

Yeah, 9 and 10 were both awful to me.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I liked chapter 10's music and well 9 had some awesome fights. So yeah...

 

[rataven]

GOOD FUCKING GOD.

Chapter 10 is awful. We're talking makes me want to throw the game in the garbage awful.

It never ends. It just keeps going and going. Same damn passageways and enemies over and over and over again.

Kill me now.

Chapter 10 is TERRIBLE. And the middle of Chapter 11 isn't much better.

Side note - I totally get a kick out of Fang's in-battle jargon. "You're nuthin'!". Yea, you tell that rusty old robot, Fang.

 

[Crash Station]

That's nuthin.

You know what's even worse: I liked Sarah and Lymle from Star Ocean 4.

I am passing the crown of "Defender of the JRPG animu character" to you. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!11!!

 

[BertramCooper]

Chapter 10 is TERRIBLE. And the middle of Chapter 11 isn't much better.

I'm really trying to enjoy this game. And for the most part, I have up until this point.

But Chapter 10 is inexcusably awful. I play games for fun. This is not fun. At all. This is a fucking chore.

 

[ULTROS!]

I am passing the crown of "Defender of the JRPG animu character" to you. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!11!!

..V(^_^)V..

Anyway, I didn't like Chapter 4 (

Spoiler

Vile Peaks

), Chapter 5 (

Spoiler

Gapra Whitewoods

), Chapter 9 (

Spoiler

Palamecium

, and Chapter 10 (

Spoiler

5th Ark

) but I liked the finale of Chapter 10). They felt like a chore-chapter

 

[Rahxephon91]

I'm really trying to enjoy this game. And for the most part, I have up until this point.

But Chapter 10 is inexcusably awful. I play games for fun. This is not fun. At all. This is a fucking chore.

Whats so bad about it compared to the other areas? Chapter ten is 5th Ark right? Other then the fact it goes in for awhile whats so bad about it.

 

[Hunahan]

GOOD FUCKING GOD.

Final Fantasy XIII is awful. We're talking makes me want to throw the game in the garbage awful.

It never ends. It just keeps going and going. Same damn passageways and enemies over and over and over again.

Kill me now.

Fixed.

 

[rataven]

I'm really trying to enjoy this game. And for the most part, I have up until this point.

But Chapter 10 is inexcusably awful. I play games for fun. This is not fun. At all. This is a fucking chore.

I was just at the point where you are in the game, and it was awful. But for a little light on the horizon, the beginning of chapter 11 is very refreshing. I'm glad I made it that far. Kind of wish I had stayed there though :/

 

[Papercuts]

Whats so bad about it compared to the other areas? Chapter ten is 5th Ark right? Other then the fact it goes in for awhile whats so bad about it.

It repeats the same big circular room with bird enemies multiple times. It just goes on too long for its own good, which is what I also had a gripe with about chapter 4 and 9.

 

[SixStringPsycho]

Maybe this has been discused here already, but one question, What is up with fang, hope, lighting and everyother characters hair when closing up? It looks like if there was some black mesh thrown over it and doesnt look good. This happens in game, not on CG cutscenes

 

[WickedLaharl]

i thought chapter 10 was better than chapter 11 which ended up being the biggest letdown EVER. i expected to learn all about gran pulse, but nooo, they deceived to tell us nothing!!

and there is such a huge emotional disconnect at

Spoiler

oerba since neither fang or vanille show hardly any concern over the demise of their home aside from a little "OH NOES" at the top of the tower.

fucking lame!

ffs they could have at the very least stuck a bunch of shit in the datalog.

really i don't even feel like playing anymore. i'm at the beginning of chapter 12, about how much longer will it take me to finish?

Maybe this has been discused here already, but one question, What is up with fang, hope, lighting and everyother characters hair when closing up? It looks like if there was some black mesh thrown over it and doesnt look good. This happens in game, not on CG cutscenes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_to_coverage

 

[WickedLaharl]

and in that 6 hours all the pieces will fall into place and all the gaping holes in the story and lore will be filled, right? RIGHT?!?!

 

[Livin_Lovin]

Got a quick question for those who did the missions.

Spoiler

How do you get the growth egg to work? It's equipped, but it seems like that character is gaining the same amount of CP.

Edit:

Spoiler

Or am I stupid and everyone's getting it and it's totaled at the victory screen?

 

[Paraclete]

Good lord whoever wrote this story must have confused Sci-Fi with tearing random pages from the library of congress and making a story out of it.