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[twofold]

Not to get too offtopic but I think SWTOR may be the game to do that. From what I've read and seen, I think Bioware "gets it".

Guild Wars 2 is also looking awesomely impressive. Next year is going to be great for MMOs.

 

[notworksafe]

It's not that they 'get it,' so much as they have the budget to get it right.

So does Square.

 

[Mairu]

You have to grow to love each mmo. What kind of gamer only plays a game when it's good?

Please tell me this is sarcasm

 

[DaBuddaDa]

We seem to be talking in circles. I think all rational actors can agree:

The game right now, when compared to other MMORPGs on the market and on the horizon, is frustrating, backwards-thinking and lacking in content. The general consensus is it is not worth the subscription fee. If you have a lot of friends who are all really into Final Fantasy you can probably have a decent amount of fun with it due to the social interaction alone but the same can be said with almost any multiplayer game. The game may be fixed in the future through patching, it may not be. MMORPG history shows many games that launched poorly became good after a long while. The same can happen to FFXIV, we shall see.

Anything else to talk about? Are there any other NA/EU review scores out there other than the two we already know about?

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Can I PLEASE borrow one of you apologist's (preferrably with final fantasy 11 or 14 avatars) time machines. I really need to find this kid...let's call Cohn Jonnor. I have an important message for him.

 

[Einbroch]

We seem to be talking in circles. I think all rational actors can agree:

The game right now, when compared to other MMORPGs on the market and on the horizon, is frustrating, backwards-thinking and lacking in content. The general consensus is it is not worth the subscription fee. If you have a lot of friends who are all really into Final Fantasy you can probably have a decent amount of fun with it due to the social interaction alone. The game may be fixed in the future through patching, it may not be. MMORPG history shows that many games that launched poorly became good after a long while. The same can happen to FFXIV, we shall see.

Anything else to talk about? Are there any other NA/EU review scores out there other than the two we already know about?

CSM: 4/5 (Family oriented consumer review site)

Fans of Final Fantasy will find many of the franchise's iconic elements here, including sweeping musical themes, memorable characters, Chocobos (giant flightless birds we can ride), and movie-like cutscenes that feature the player's protagonist. The story and game world are wonderfully rich and complex. Players are not limited to a single class and consequently can learn many skills -- many of which have nothing to do with fighting, such as fishing, mining, cooking, and leatherworking.

Unfortunately, it's not an easy game to learn. The tutorial and help screens, for example, could use more mouse-over hot-tips. Most players will be forced to rely on fan sites or Square Enix's own web site for tips and explanations. However, once you get used to your interface of choice (the game supports both a PS3 gamepad and a keyboard-and-mouse setup), MMORPG fans will likely find the game a rich and satisfying challenge.

Ten Ton Hammer: B- (MMO-centric news site)

In the case of FFXIV, the game will be insanely popular with most Final Fantasy fans who enjoy MMOs. Its deep story and high level of immersion will attract a few first-time MMO players who will not have enough experience to be put off by the idiosyncrasies of the game. The game will have a tough time penetrating other demographics, but it will be a resounding success if it captures even a third of its target audience.

 

[Painraze]

Again, this game is coming out in 2010. Not 2002, not 2004, not 2008. It's not competing with 2004 WoW or 2004 EQ2. It's competing with MMOs that are out in 2010.

Hell now that games like LotRO, EQ2, and DDO are free to play you could say that better value can be had for zero dollars. :lol

This can't be quoted enough.

You can play LotRO for FREE now... a game that is infinitely better than FF14.

 

[Vinci]

So does Square.

My biggest concern with Old Republic is actually how much it seems to resemble WoW. That, and I'm not altogether sure storytelling is all that greatly desired on a large scale, but as long as the gameplay is tight it should do fine.

 

[RurouniZel]

For me, FFXIV fixes a lot of thing I didn't like about FFXI. For one, it's much more solo friendly. I also love the general lack of aggro from powerful monsters, allowing me to run around and take in the sights and visit the 3 major starting towns. I love how much easier it is to change jobs this time around, and I love how this game feels like it was made to be played with a controller.

I really loving this more than my exp w/ FFXI, WoW, and Guild Wars. No lie.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

It's useless to even reason with WoWfans.

Oooooo you've got some fucking nerve girl. Jesus wept.

No matter what, they will believe that game is grindless and the end all be all of MMO's.

What do you know? you've never even played it.

 

[demosthenes]

For the people w/ more MMO experience than I do?

Do any other MMOs have the class systems of XI / XIV? I don't want to have 5 characters. I want one character and all classes.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Do any other MMOs have the class systems of XI / XIV? I don't want to have 5 characters. I want one character and all classes."


There are MMOs that are "classless" and just have a lot of skills that you level up at your own discretion like Eve or Ultima.

 

[Painraze]

For the people w/ more MMO experience than I do?

Do any other MMOs have the class systems of XI / XIV? I don't want to have 5 characters. I want one character and all classes.

If there is no extra charge for multiple characters and they can share resources easily, what's the difference?

Or in WoW's case... if you want a taste of all classes with one character roll a Druid. :lol

 

[Vinci]

For the people w/ more MMO experience than I do?

Do any other MMOs have the class systems of XI / XIV? I don't want to have 5 characters. I want one character and all classes.

That's fairly unique, unless you take into account skill-based progression games like EVE. For class-based titles? That was really one of the stand-out aspects of FF XI back in the day.

 

[demosthenes]

If there is no extra charge for multiple characters and they can share resources easily, what's the difference?

Or in WoW's case... if you want a taste of all classes with one character roll a Druid. :lol

Because I don't want to log out, log back in, log out, log back in, have friends remember 5 characters, do everything 5 times. I'd just like 1 character that I can do everything on.

 

[Salaadin]

If there is no extra character for the character and they can share resources easily, what's the difference?

In XIV, theres a nice difference.
Your class level and your actual level are split.
Class level affects abilties and equips. Physical level affects stats and attributes.
You can level a MRD to 10 and gain a few physical levels in the process. Move your stats, upgrade your character, etc and then bounce back to a different job at level 1 but start out with higher HP, STR, DEX, etc thus making it easier to level that class.

On top of that, you can bring some of the skills you learned a MRD to your new job or vice versa for further customization.

 

[jeremy1456]

While I can't comment on FFXIV, the Gamespot score for it is actually what FFXIII deserved.

 

[notworksafe]

Because I don't want to log out, log back in, log out, log back in, have friends remember 5 characters, do everything 5 times. I'd just like 1 character that I can do everything on.

Real ID Your friends can be friend with just "you". Not each character you have.

I agree though. The all classes on one character thing in FFXIV is cool.

 

[Painraze]

Because I don't want to log out, log back in, log out, log back in, have friends remember 5 characters, do everything 5 times. I'd just like 1 character that I can do everything on.

If you level a druid in WoW you have access to most class aspects in the game (healer, melee DPS (w/ stealth), ranged DPS (magic), tank) without having to level each spec individually.

So I guess that would be one example, but yeah the whole one character, every class thing seems to be Final Fantasy exclusive if you don't include skill based MMOs.

 

[demosthenes]

Real ID Your friends can be friend with just "you". Not each character you have.

I agree though. The all classes on one character thing in FFXIV is cool.

Yea...I like the XI/XIV system too much.

 

[Robobandit]

Right now, I would rate this game a 6/10..

I agree with a lot of the complaints.. though. The game could have benefited heavily from more time in the cooker.

So they don't want people to be able to level solely on quests like other mmorpgs.. fine.. at least:

1. Make party play viable by giving an exp bonus to people in a party.
2. Put more monsters in the zones, they're nearly empty.
3. Allow me to sort my ****ing inventory or do it for me in a logical way
4. Fix the Crafting UI lag.. why am I waiting 10-20 seconds to even begin the crafting process?
5. In-game recipe list.. where is it?
6. Why do I need a lv 20 crafted item as a material for a lv 7 crafted item? I can't make anything elseful for myself or other people my own level.. this doesn't make sense.
7. I'm willing to go without an AH as long as there is a viable alternative.. but there isn't now.. so fix it.

 

[notworksafe]

Yea...I like the XI/XIV system too much.

I like it a lot as well. I prefer the XI style of class mixing (RDM/WHM forever!), but I'm sure the XIV style will mature over time.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I like it a lot as well. I prefer the XI style of class mixing (RDM/WHM forever!), but I'm sure the XIV style will mature over time.

The XIV system is going to hit a lot of bumps, but the subjob system was so limited. 99% of the time, rather than allowing for customization, it just forced players to level a second job that they may or may not like. With the spread of abilities in XIV I see tons of potential for flexibility. I'm thinking I might do something like a GLD(?)/CON or else just a badass hybrid mage once they include more of the planned magic jobs.

 

[speedpop]

Glad I'm sticking with my safety course; avoid the game to let it boil and stew a lot more, read patch news and see what the non-FFOnline fanatics think/say, then jump in when the time is right.

I still find it funny that I have to pay money to get another character of a different race. What year is this? 2001?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Damn. With LOTRO going F2P and Vindictus coming out, don't think I'll give this a shot.

There is hope--even Age of Conan became a great MMO

Spoiler

1.5 years after launch

 

[notworksafe]

The XIV system is going to hit a lot of bumps, but the subjob system was so limited. 99% of the time, rather than allowing for customization, it just forced players to level a second job that they may or may not like. With the spread of abilities in XIV I see tons of potential for flexibility. I'm thinking I might do something like a GLD(?)/CON or else just a badass hybrid mage once they include more of the planned magic jobs.

Very true. I just happened to like both my jobs quite a bit.

 

[Lucis]

4/10?
such a money hat score.
with the problem this game has i'd give it 0.4/10 in all honesty.

 

[JORMBO]

Glad I'm sticking with my safety course; avoid the game to let it boil and stew a lot more, read patch news and see what the non-FFOnline fanatics think/say, then jump in when the time is right.

I still find it funny that I have to pay money to get another character of a different race. What year is this? 2001?

This is actually nice. With one character I think an account is $12.99. It's a bit cheaper then other MMOs if you only get one slot.

 

[Salaadin]

Glad I'm sticking with my safety course; avoid the game to let it boil and stew a lot more, read patch news and see what the non-FFOnline fanatics think/say, then jump in when the time is right.

I still find it funny that I have to pay money to get another character of a different race. What year is this? 2001?

Im curious, how do other games handle additional characters? DO they just let you create many, free of charge?

 

[clo1_2000]

Here's the rub; even with the flaws I'm still having fun. Things they definitely need to fix:

UI Speed (still)
AH
Leves on 24 hour cooldown
more quest hub-like content

I just play the game when my leves are up and then do crafting and maybe grind some mobs for exp and materials. About 2 hours a day or so and it doesn't get boring...

I find the combat skills fun to use and doing leves in groups is awesome. The no AH thing really really blows, however. Taking an hour to find some new armor is just dumb.

 

[Magnus]

I still find it funny that I have to pay money to get another character of a different race. What year is this? 2001?

Christ, seriously.

Nice to see barely any lessons were learned from XI.

 

[Evlar]

Glad I'm sticking with my safety course; avoid the game to let it boil and stew a lot more, read patch news and see what the non-FFOnline fanatics think/say, then jump in when the time is right.

My plan all along was to commit the next few months to Cataclysm then leap into FFXIV when the PS3 version comes out (though I may buy it for PC, if I can get my rig upgraded by March). That hasn't changed, but I will certainly be keeping a wary eye on community feedback before I buy.

 

[dimb]

Im curious, how do other games handle additional characters? DO they just let you create many, free of charge?

Uh, yes.

 

[notworksafe]

Im curious, how do other games handle additional characters? DO they just let you create many, free of charge?

Most have limit per server. WoW has a limit of eight per server (I believe). LotRO starts you at three, but gives you two more per expansion you buy, and if you get anything from their item store you get two more as well. WAR I think has a limit of six per server, but it could be more. I forgot how large the limit is.

As far as the process, you just hit "Make New Character" in game and make one.

 

[Evlar]

Im curious, how do other games handle additional characters? DO they just let you create many, free of charge?

WoW allows up to 10 characters per server and 50 character total per account, no additional charge.

 

[Salaadin]

Damn thats handy, even for only just mules and stuff.

 

[dimb]

Most have limit per server. WoW has a limit of eight per server (I believe). LotRO starts you at three, but gives you two more per expansion you buy, and if you get anything from their item store you get two more as well. WAR I think has a limit of six per server, but it could be more. I forgot how large the limit is.

As far as the process, you just hit "Make New Character" in game and make one.

WoW has a limit of 10 per server. Edit: Beaten on this.

 

[Painraze]

Im curious, how do other games handle additional characters? DO they just let you create many, free of charge?

WoW lets you create 10 characters per server, 50 characters total. Also, even if you unsubscribe for years, Blizzard will not delete your characters.

Square deleted my FF11 character after 3 months. :lol

 

[Anton Sugar]

This is actually nice. With one character I think an account is $12.99. It's a bit cheaper then other MMOs if you only get one slot.

I'd rather pay $10-15 a month and be able to create 2-5 (sometimes 10, depending on the game) players, than $13 a month with one. That's pretty weak.

 

[Mandoric]

Ugh...no. XIV is lacking the content to anything outside of the pick up a quest, do it, turn in. Done. The variety right now is too stupid and boring as hell. Unless things have changed, you can't even get in groups for the chain exp grind runs in XIV. That's what I loved about XI. Other MMO's have your questing. They also had instances where you could group together instead of finding a spot in the open world and bring mobs to you. There's also pvp (though EQ2 did not do this). XIV feels bare bones. And needs to be changed asap.

There's viable grind spots in 14. I don't think there's ever going to be the same kind of big-pt rushes for non-boss mobs, though, because the SP/repop systems favor duos or trios on Ts in terms of everyone hitting cap without seriously going over.

This could of course be changed by slowing pops, slowing SP gain, or increasing mob HP, but none of these are appealing options.

 

[ghibli99]

I never thought I'd say this in my lifetime, but FF is pretty dead to me. Disappointment with 12 and 13, and I'll say it again, but 11 should have just been called Final Fantasy Online. 14 sounds like a mixed bag of mostly cons... I can't believe what I'm reading in here about what they did (or didn't do). Even my FF fanboy friends are having a hard time justifying their time with 14.

 

[notworksafe]

Damn thats handy, even for only just mules and stuff.

Yeah it's really helpful. I've got 5 character slots used at the moment. One for a main class, one for an alt class, one for an auction house/bank mule, and two are saved character names for the Goblin/Worgen races.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I'd rather pay $10-15 a month and be able to create 2-5 (sometimes 10, depending on the game) players, than $13 a month with one. That's pretty weak.

I'm sure everyone knows this by now, but just to make it clear: on one character you can do everything in the game--level all the jobs, do all the content, etc. The only thing you can't do on a single character is play multiple races, for obvious reasons.

Having ONE character and ONE in-game identity makes it so that one character is you. You identify with that character more, and the people you meet in game do too. Believe it or not it makes a MASSIVE difference in the community. People are held more accountable for their actions, and there is a much greater sense of familiarity between people when people don't have 10 alts. It's quite nice really.

 

[JORMBO]

I'm sure everyone knows this by now, but just to make it clear: on one character you can do everything in the game--level all the jobs, do all the content, etc. The only thing you can't do on a single character is play multiple races, for obvious reasons.

Having ONE character and ONE in-game identity makes it so that one character is yo. You identify with that character more, and the people you meet in game do too. Believe it or not it makes a MASSIVE difference in the community. People are held more accountable for their actions, and there is a much greater sense of familiarity between people when people don't have 10 alts. It's quite nice really.

As mich as I hate most things in FFXIV this is something I really like a lot. I don't see the need to have more then one character. And if you decide to grab a 2nd slot it's priced around the MMO norm.

 

[Amneisac]

With all the things you can go after in FFXIV I don't know how we're stuck up on the one thing it actually does well, which is the class/physical level system. Even then, the system sucks compared to FFXI, which in my mind is the winner of all MMOs for its job system.

 

[gillty]

I'm sure everyone knows this by now, but just to make it clear: on one character you can do everything in the game--level all the jobs, do all the content, etc. The only thing you can't do on a single character is play multiple races, for obvious reasons.

Having ONE character and ONE in-game identity makes it so that one character is yo. You identify with that character more, and the people you meet in game do too. Believe it or not it makes a MASSIVE difference in the community. People are held more accountable for their actions, and there is a much greater sense of familiarity between people when people don't have 10 alts. It's quite nice really.

I agree it's the same thing in EVE because you can only trains skills on one character at a time the characters become more accountable and are able to become more infamous. The 2 other slots become trolls or traders.

 

[HappyBivouac]

It's only partially analogous, but imagine if everyone on gaf had five different accounts. :lol

 

[Anton Sugar]

Having ONE character and ONE in-game identity makes it so that one character is you. You identify with that character more, and the people you meet in game do too. Believe it or not it makes a MASSIVE difference in the community. People are held more accountable for their actions, and there is a much greater sense of familiarity between people when people don't have 10 alts. It's quite nice really.

I guess. But isn't this assuming a lot about the player? Why remove options?

 

[notworksafe]

It's only partially analogous, but imagine if everyone on gaf had five different accounts. :lol

I get what you are saying, but I think that it's less of an issue than you imagine. I often judge players by their guild and the actions that the guild does. Plus most people I know only have 1-3 characters. After spending a long enough time on a serve, you get to know the people who play at the same time you do.

 

[Mandoric]

Yeah it's really helpful. I've got 5 character slots used at the moment. One for a main class, one for an alt class, one for an auction house/bank mule, and two are saved character names for the Goblin/Worgen races.

From a FF14 perspective, I don't think things would change at all for you; you'd have your main class and your alt class on the same character, and the game gives you a dedicated AH/bank mule. You'd lose out on the potential to name-reserve for new races, but new races are pretty unlikely so that's a wash.