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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down

Xater

Member
So I have been interested in starting to play this again but would like some information first.

How is he class distribution in this? Does it make sense to figure that choice in because of waiting times for instances and stuff?

Also is there a European FC I can join? Starting out just soloing with barely any interaction with anyone again sounds boring.

PS: I played some of A Realm Reborn when it launched on PS4. Had a Dragoon and barely remember a thing, so I feel like I have to start over.
 

duckroll

Member
Haven't gone back to the Peaks yet, but there are a lot of side quests in the Gyodo village, including an entire chain where you help a Gyodo become a gun runner.

I am one of those weirdos who enjoys doing all of the side quests, so I'm not quite sure which quest chain unlocks the area, but it's definitely used.

Omg! I need to do those! I generally skip any SQ that isn't blue+ marked or a chain starting from a blue+ mark because I want to leave all that for my RDM run in the near future. Sounds good!
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
MCH's might pull slightly ahead if aligning burst windows is a thing, while a decent chunk of Bard's offensive support is in the form of a constant tiny crit buff.

As far as I know that Bard support is far more consistent since you don't need experience with the fight or your teammates in order to provide the basic additional critical increase with the addition of Foe's Requiem versus needing to align damage windows with Wildfire.

Troubadour and Hypercharge are two different sides of the same coin (Doing more Physical/Magic Damage versus taking less Physical/Magic Damage) but I say Troubadour comes out on top simply because it has a 3rd option available with the HP Buff. The Bard has more support options than the Machinist therefore it gets the title of Support Job if you ask me plus if you believe in the parsers and DPS rankings floating out there right now the Bard is doing more damage than the Machinist right now so that's always a plus when you got somebody trying to decide which one to play as.
 

iammeiam

Member
As far as I know that Bard support is far more consistent since you don't need experience with the fight or your teammates in order to provide the basic additional critical increase with the addition of Foe's Requiem versus needing to align damage windows with Wildfire.

Troubadour and Hypercharge are two different sides of the same coin (Doing more Physical/Magic Damage versus taking less Physical/Magic Damage) but I say Troubadour comes out on top simply because it has a 3rd option available with the HP Buff. The Bard has more support options than the Machinist therefore it gets the title of Support Job if you ask me plus if you believe in the parsers and DPS rankings floating out there right now the Bard is doing more damage than the Machinist right now so that's always a plus when you got somebody trying to decide which one to play as.

What

I'm not disputing that Bard has a slight support edge, but that's not an accurate description of the MCH side of things at all. Machinist's current kit is still superior support to anything Bard offered in ARR and HW, so to label them as a 'selfish DPS job' is a misread.

Going in order: Hypercharge doesnt belong in a Troubador comparison, because it's part of the offensive kit, not the defensive kit. It's up for roughly 30 seconds every 120, giving you 25% uptime on a flat 5% damage buff; since Trick Attack is up every 60, every Hypercharge should naturally stack. Any fight where DPS checks are severe enough for it to matter will generally also involve people planning out cool downs and burst windows. Functionally, the offensive rDPS buffs for both jobs math out to be very close. Nobody wins on this alone.

Hypercharge isn't the Machinist answer to Troubador, Dismantle is. Dismantle is 10% damage reduction to all damage--Physical, magical, darkness, untyped, whatever--cast by a mob in the next 5 seconds. It's up every 90, meaning you can use it twice as often as Troubador, it has no rotation reliance on the MCH (because useful BRD defensive buffs require making sure the right song is off CD at the right time). Troub is easier to put up, lasts longer, but does not buff the bard--meaning if you toss it up to help the party survive, either the bard needs extra babying or they're just going to die while their defensive buff keeps the rest of the party alive. Given how Dismantle works, it'll reduce the damage to everyone from a boss-cast AOE.

I'd give Bard the uncontested defensive support edge currently due to Minne, because Minne is nuts, and they get the preferred range title at the moment because of the MCH tuning problems and design problems people wish I'd stop bringing up. But neither of those things makes thinking of MCH as 'selfish DPS' at all a sensible reaction.

Like, I don't at all disagree that Bard is currently in a better place. But "bard is TRUE SUPPORT, MCH is SELFISH DPS" is a bizarre response given that MCH is still more support-y than ARR or HW bard, and the game as a whole has shifted towards a more constant intermingling of support and DPS responsibilitiies; I'm not saying recommending bard is wrong, but that sort of oversimplification and hyperbole based on what seems like a shaky understanding of MCH is just bad info to give a new player. There are enough valid reasons to pick bard.
 
lol what is this discussion?

bard is better raid utility, better solo dps, better aoe dps, better for prog.

Why would you ever take a mch over a brd (assuming the same caliber of skill)
 

iammeiam

Member
lol what is this discussion?

bard is better raid utility, better solo dps, better aoe dps, better for prog.

Why would you ever take a mch over a brd (assuming the same caliber of skill)

This isn't the raid meta. I've pretty consistently acknowledge the meta favors bard. This is about this in response to the differences:
Noo... they play completely different now! Best way to think about it is that Bard is THE support Job of the game while Machinist became a very selfish DPS

There's a tendency in the community to conflate optimal meta with viability. MCH isn't optimal; that doesn't make it useless in a support capacity or ultimately selfish or even necessarily going to hamper a raid tier. At no point in this discussion have I pushed MCH as the stronger job, I'm just trying to keep the conversation grounded in reality.

And sometimes you take the player, not the job, for the last part. I did Gordias on Machinist in the face of all common sense pointing otherwise, because I wanted to. My creator prog group had a WHM, a PLD, and a monk, because The Meta outside of world prog isn't worth flipping out over if you have people that prefer non-meta. If you're chasing optimal, you'll take a bard, but if it's Creator Prog again you could probably take four monks and be fine. The delta between brd/mch exists, and it will impact world prog. MCH needs fixes. It's not a selfish DPS job that will be guaranteed dead weight. These shouldn't be controversial statements.
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
I hate what they did to the Machinist.

That's the way I described the Job because that's my experience with Machinist now while playing with PUGs. A Bard is FAR MORE likely to sing their songs than a Machinist is likely to use Overcharge during PUGS from what I seen and it certainly doesn't help the Machinist that Dismantle and Hypercharge are a Lv.56/58 Action while a Bard can start signing Mage's Ballad at Lv.30 so even in terms of content the Bard can start providing support beginning with Brayflox's Longstop while Machinist have to wait until The Vault before they can even start giving out support themselves. So yes in terms of playing style that I seen and content they have access to the Machinist is far more restrictive/selfish with their support.

lol what is this discussion?

bard is better raid utility, better solo dps, better aoe dps, better for prog.

Why would you ever take a mch over a brd (assuming the same caliber of skill)
The novelty of shooting a Gun? And maybe hope that they get some sort of fix/buff in the future? Although seeing as how they took player feedback when they readjusted the White Mage....I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Someone clarify this term "selfish DPS" to me, in the context of FFXIV.

I don't understand why it matters whether a DPS is selfish or not. Let's say NIN does 2k DPS. Then TA and SF add a further 300 given some arbitrary comp. Meanwhile, a SAM does 2.3k alone, straight up, with the same comp. There is no quantitative difference between the two as far as kill speed is concerned, unlike, say, RDM who can contribute something beyond what any other comp can (nigh limitless instant raises) and thus affect the actual strategy of the encounter.

The only way this distinction of "selfish" vs "non-selfish" makes sense to me is if they balanced such that every job does identical DPS, and group buffs were 'extra', but I feel like this is clearly not the case.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Because historically stacking multiplicative buffs was simply more efficient, with everyone buffing everyone else going with a job that doesn't buff anyone simply could not compensate (and then you had completely crazy deals where MCH and BRD were doing nearly as much damage as casters WHILE buffing others).
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Okay, I get it now.

Do you think that's true of SAM at this point? Does it compensate for being "selfish" by also being busted or do you think buff stacking still reigns supreme?
 

scotcheggz

Member
If any fishers want to get the new minions, I been fishing for them today, I got some tips to share:

Chick: Fish off the coast of the island opposite costa del sol. Use LUGWORM as bait, it's cheap but more importantly it will only catch Merlthor Goby which you need to mooch to catch a wahoo, then mooch or mooch 2 that wahoo to catch the chick (you'll also get megalodon and giant squid). Lugworm is the sweet deal here because you'll have a chance to catch it every single cast, as opposed to the lures which will catch you all sorts along with the gobys you need to mooch wahoos.

Tiny Tatsunoko: Spearfish in the NE area of ruby sea. The three nodes are in a triangle around the Kobayashi Maru wreck. Use small gig head and you'll only get Sea lamps (?) I forget the exact name which are a lvl 66 leve fish and Bashful batfish. The leve is 6xLamps for 350k xp. after you catch 10-12 Bashful Batfish you'll pop the legendary node on the map. If you spearfish that with a large gig head you can get the minion, but also you'll get sharks which are a collectible at a decent click. Batfish:lamp ratio is about 1:3, so you'll get loads of lamps, meaning if you have leve allowances and hand in the sharks, you can level 68-70 here in like an hour... OR just sell the lamps on market to lazy, rich fishers and make bank.
 

Foxxsoxx

Member
Made a boatload of progress today. Really loving the story so far, nice to have a different change of pace from Heavensward.

Just finished with the Steppes. Tomorrow it's back to Doma.
 
Just finished the instance from the steeps and damn son, this game right here! This is a expansion, I'm upset I can never do the solo instances again unless I make a new character.
 
Okay, I get it now.

Do you think that's true of SAM at this point? Does it compensate for being "selfish" by also being busted or do you think buff stacking still reigns supreme?

Who cares about buff stacking? Is about dat SAM 50k critical!

Maybe SAM is not ideal, but I'm sure one is easily viable in most content, but they need also be on point I guess, since they depend of themselves.
 

iammeiam

Member
Machinist was inarguably superior in A4S and even with BRD in A3S.
Sheesh.

We can talk about how much time I spent shouting into the wind about the secret perks MCH had over bard in A4S, but that doesn't make it any more contrary to the publicly accepted viewpoint at the time or me any less aware that going double caster/MCH in A3S was making the fight harder to appease me. The MCH clear rate on A4S is a fraction of Bard's, in large part because conventional wisdom at the time was that MCH was always way worse and recruitment heavily preferred Bards.

That's the way I described the Job because that's my experience with Machinist now while playing with PUGs. A Bard is FAR MORE likely to sing their songs than a Machinist is likely to use Overcharge during PUGS from what I seen and it certainly doesn't help the Machinist that Dismantle and Hypercharge are a Lv.56/58 Action while a Bard can start signing Mage's Ballad at Lv.30 so even in terms of content the Bard can start providing support beginning with Brayflox's Longstop while Machinist have to wait until The Vault before they can even start giving out support themselves. So yes in terms of playing style that I seen and content they have access to the Machinist is far more restrictive/selfish with their support.

I don't even know what the discussion at this point is--are we comparing active contribution in leveling dungeons at this point? Job design? Actual viability in content where support matters? Nobody recommends healers based on their toolkit at 30, or suggests leveling the tank that is the best at 55, because those are phases you fly through en route to the ultimate cap where you'l be sitting for literal years and it's where the jobs are actually complete. the passive crit buff isn't even unselfish--it's not a choice to help the group, it's literally mandatory in order to access basic Bard functionality.

I'd also question if you would really notice a MCH using Hypercharge in a PUG. It just adds another debuff to the boss identical to the vulnerability from Trick Attack, it doesn't demand attention or do anything super showy.

The only way this distinction of "selfish" vs "non-selfish" makes sense to me is if they balanced such that every job does identical DPS, and group buffs were 'extra', but I feel like this is clearly not the case.

"Selfish" DPS mostly notes DPS jobs that don't do anything to make the rest of the group look good. Damage buffs are an obvious example. It becomes sort of relevant in a couple of ways: Support functionality is more easy to consistently cash in on; instead of a job's contribution being solely how well they can rotation, it becomes how well they can rotation + how much the rest of the group improves from their presence. Bard's original lowered damage was the price they paid for being support; the job was designed to sacrifice Bard's base damage in favor of supporting the group.

SAM being inherently selfish DPS doesn't make SAM bad, but if another job did less personal DPS but provided a bigger boost to the rest of the raid group such that rDPS in the two situations was equal, you'd probably see a lean towards the other job because everyone else in the group gets to look better by their presence. Like, when our monk bailed at the tail end of A12S, we needed to find a rep. I was pulling hard for DRG because them showing up and hitting Disembowel occasionally was a huge boost for me, and Litany would have boosted us all. But we ended up taking a monk anyway because preference isn't a deal breaker.
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Okay, I get it now.

Do you think that's true of SAM at this point? Does it compensate for being "selfish" by also being busted or do you think buff stacking still reigns supreme?

:) That's the big question isnt it? There's no doubt in anyone minds that the Samurai has near zero raid utility but it's DPS numbers are quite big it just might overcome that issue and be great for raids. We will find out in 3 weeks when Omega Savage is released.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Okay, I get it now.

Do you think that's true of SAM at this point? Does it compensate for being "selfish" by also being busted or do you think buff stacking still reigns supreme?

I haven't seen anyone making calculations to either effect, but the idea was probably to provide players with more than just one option. Like, for example, a triple caster comp is now a possibility because SMN has a magic damage buff... If you want to pad PLD specifically you'll want both RDM and SMN for different phases of PLD rotation... If you're taking SAM you'll probably want NIN and RDM buffing it. Right now I don't think you can just look at SAM in a vacuum (although if you take SAM you'll probably want to cater to the SAM which is kind of the same old problem).
 
This "armor" set. The weapon and shield are pretty cool, rest is meh(even for a bikini it's meh). Potentially NFSW so spoiler tagged.

FNO7sLb.png
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I dislike the texturing on the Shisui sets but otherwise they look pretty good.
 
Just finished up the story and.. wow. SE should feel embarrassed that a fucking MMO has had a better story than any game they've developed this gen or last.


That's the way I described the Job because that's my experience with Machinist now while playing with PUGs. A Bard is FAR MORE likely to sing their songs than a Machinist is likely to use Overcharge during PUGS from what I seen and it certainly doesn't help the Machinist that Dismantle and Hypercharge are a Lv.56/58 Action while a Bard can start signing Mage's Ballad at Lv.30 so even in terms of content the Bard can start providing support beginning with Brayflox's Longstop while Machinist have to wait until The Vault before they can even start giving out support themselves. So yes in terms of playing style that I seen and content they have access to the Machinist is far more restrictive/selfish with their support.


The novelty of shooting a Gun? And maybe hope that they get some sort of fix/buff in the future? Although seeing as how they took player feedback when they readjusted the White Mage....I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Yeah, I decided to level MCH to 70 because I remember they were very good before 4.0. It's sad how difficult it is for me to keep up with other DPS the majority of the time and if I make a single mistake I am FUCKED. Since BRD has so much more utility, SE has to buff MCH's damage output. Honestly, they should be a top 5 DPS just because of their difficulty. Taking the recent parses into consideration, SMN being #2 but with the difficulty and penalty for mistakes, it makes sense.

MCH is fun to play, but I kinda regret choosing it as my first 70. The only reason I did was because it was my only level 60 DPS other than SMN and I wasn't gonna do SMN
 

Thorgal

Member
I do have to chuckle at SMNs who complained for so long that the Summon egis look like Shit but now that they're prayers have been answered and they get a big Bahamut egi now they complain it is too big and is blocking everyone's view.
 

Seijuro

Member
Played PvP (Frontlines) for the first time today. Frantic fun. The XP is good for how quick a round is over (under 10 minutes the few times I played) and they give you quite the amount of wolf marks after every match. Gonna be glamour city once I'm through for today.
Didn't encounter any problems with AFKers, but maybe they hid it well.
 

Mr Nash

square pies = communism
Hopped in a Lakshmi EX learning group for giggles tonight and we wound up beating it in about an hour. Wasn't really expecting that. Granted we barely beat the enrage.

From a tank's perspective it seemed straightforward enough. We actually didn't bother swapping much, and just used holmgang and hallowed ground on the powered up tank busters. Not sure if that's being sloppy, but it seems to have worked. =\

Now to get Susano out of the way. I wouldn't mind the axe from there and the Okami mount.
 

Zomba13

Member
It's really a shame we dont get any Lakshmi weapons because Susano's weapons are ugly as hell.

Accessories fit because of the tribe and lore reasons but yeah. The Susano weapons aren't that good looking and you just know if Lakshmi had some they'd be elegant as fuck.

Omg! I need to do those! I generally skip any SQ that isn't blue+ marked or a chain starting from a blue+ mark because I want to leave all that for my RDM run in the near future. Sounds good!

The sidequests in SB are pretty good. I mean, yeah, most of them are still just "go here grab/kill x amount of thing" BUT some of them tell a nice story with a cool character and then in each zone there are two quest chains that end up joining together and it's just really nice.
 

Thorgal

Member
So I have been interested in starting to play this again but would like some information first.

How is he class distribution in this? Does it make sense to figure that choice in because of waiting times for instances and stuff?

Also is there a European FC I can join? Starting out just soloing with barely any interaction with anyone again sounds boring.

PS: I played some of A Realm Reborn when it launched on PS4. Had a Dragoon and barely remember a thing, so I feel like I have to start over.

class distributtion is pretty good .

DPS will have significantly longer queue times to get in Dungeons or trials then healers or Tanks though .

there is only an Gaf FC on NA server Ultros.
Us EU players are either there dealing with ( possibly ) high ping or spread out over the EU servers .
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Story spoilers?
Lord Hien is so cool!
Love his music theme, voice actor, look and lines. The build up until you meet him is great and once you finally get to find him he is the man you expected to be! Love him. There s a bit of pandering in the Azim steppe as usual but I enjoyed it more than previous areas. Now back to Doma. Hopefully there still some great moment for Lord Hien
 

CLBridges

Member
Accidentally hit the power cord to my PS4 this morning while playing. Guess what awaited me when I logged in? Yep, 22gb download, again. This is the second time and it feels unbelievable. I may wait until the weekend to redownload this shit again and play some other games.
 

Murkas

Member
Can someone help me with the recommend a friend stuff?

I've been playing the trial version the past week or so and have been enjoying it so ordered the PS4 version (disc). The disc comes with a 12 digit code for PSN. My friend emailed me the recommend a friend code but how do I go about doing this? All I've got is the one 12 digit code on PSN that I'm assuming is the game + the 30 day game time. I'm guessing I just redeem the code on PSN and then that's it, got a full account with 30 day game time but where would I put the recommendation code?
 
Can someone help me with the recommend a friend stuff?

I've been playing the trial version the past week or so and have been enjoying it so ordered the PS4 version (disc). The disc comes with a 12 digit code for PSN. My friend emailed me the recommend a friend code but how do I go about doing this? All I've got is the one 12 digit code on PSN that I'm assuming includes the 30 day game time. I'm guessing I just redeem the code on PSN and then that's it, got a full account with 30 day game time but where would I put the recommendation code?

http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=70973


1. Log into the Mog Station with the Square Enix account you will use to play FINAL FANTASY XIV. (Mog Station: http://sqex.to/Msp)
2. Click on “Your Account” at the top left of the screen.
3. Select the service account you wish to apply your recruitment code under “Select Service Account.”
4. Click on the “Enter Recruitment Code” button under “The following options are available for this account:” section.
5. Follow the on-screen instructions to enter your recruitment code.
 

Murkas

Member
http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=70973


1. Log into the Mog Station with the Square Enix account you will use to play FINAL FANTASY XIV. (Mog Station: http://sqex.to/Msp)
2. Click on “Your Account” at the top left of the screen.
3. Select the service account you wish to apply your recruitment code under “Select Service Account.”
4. Click on the “Enter Recruitment Code” button under “The following options are available for this account:” section.
5. Follow the on-screen instructions to enter your recruitment code.

Ah I guess I do this after redeeming on PSN.

Nice one, Thanks!
 

Meguro

Banned
Trying to clear Susano EX through PF/DF has been a nightmare.
3 fail disbands, people actually just not reading when mechanics are explained to them in detail, failing the big sword DPS check (??????). And this is probably the easiest set of EX primals yet!
 
Not expac relevant, but I just hit 30 with my lancer and did the dragoon quest. Any tips on where to focus next? I started leveling up leatherworking and stuff but I'm wondering if there is a benefit to raising other jobs/classes?
 

Thorgal

Member
Just to make sure , if i buy another retainer from the store , will that unlock an extra retainer account wide or only on one character ?
 
Not expac relevant, but I just hit 30 with my lancer and did the dragoon quest. Any tips on where to focus next? I started leveling up leatherworking and stuff but I'm wondering if there is a benefit to raising other jobs/classes?

Main benefit is you get to play content with them ;) If you like crafting there''s a whole other game in there but the economy can be rough at the start. It gets easier when you're rolling in more Gil. Gathering classes can be fun too, as like an activity while listening to podcasts or just if you want a break.
 

Murkas

Member
It says before, but also that it doesn't matter if your trial hasn't expired yet. I'd do it first tbh.

I don't think I can, I don't see an option. Under 'select service account', the only option I have is 'transfer to regular service.' Under that it just says account status>account type>free trial and then under that just my character and what server it's on.

So I'm guessing i have to redeem the PSN code first?
 

MechaX

Member
I do have to chuckle at SMNs who complained for so long that the Summon egis look like Shit but now that they're prayers have been answered and they get a big Bahamut egi now they complain it is too big and is blocking everyone's view.

I feel for Yoshi-P on this one. Some of them truly don't know what they want.

Personally, I can't go back to Egi's after this. But just have Bahamut either kind of transparent or make sure that mechanic markers show up regardless of whether he's in view.
 
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