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[Go_Ly_Dow]

Wait, so is this L.Spiro S-E staff?

 

[Via Purifico]

Wait, so is this L.Spiro S-E staff?

Yes.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Yes.

Nice. I eagerly await to see this game closer to release with finalized visuals and polish.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If you say so Sparky! Whatever floats your boat.




Please don't quote posts that intentionally waste vertical space. It's annoying.

edit: nm it was my own post, wasn't wearing my glasses.


In all seriousness though, you know what? I think it's about time I peace out on FFXV threads till at least PAX and TGS too.

Been asked a couple of times in private what I thought of the Gamescom showing. I've been pretty open about my opinion on games I've worked on in the past (Lightning Returns o boy - fun game, but some things could have been left in the oven a little longer) but for FFXV the situation's a little different - Due to how volatile it is I'm either going to look like I'm whiteknighting a product I worked on, or badmouthing a product I worked on, either of which does the game nor me any good. Me posting snarky comments don't help much either - that much I can readily admit.

I'll say this though - Throughout the course of vsXIII's history I've been on both extremes of the hype and snark trains, but at this point, having seen what I have of the FFXV's dev, it's extremely frustrating whenever people jump to conclusions of any sort with respect to where the game stands, based on marketing decisions and/or spontaneous comments from the public faces of the team.

I think it's really best if I just forced myself to take a step back and let the game speak for itself in the long run. Peek into the discussions once in a while, join in the banter, but dip sparingly into the frustration and know when it's time to pull up again.

Jumping to conclusions or just reading into what has been shown?

There's 2 possibilities behind the lack of info/gameplay:

1) They are either way behind schudele, with a mess on engine who still lacks key features from other standard or more mature engines out there, which is making the progress of the game to slow or not without several problems.

2) Or is the worst marketing plan ever conceived for any PR department ever.

Choosing to believe in one or the other is equally jumping to conclussions, just in the 2 sides of the spectrum.

But the Shakespeare theme was going to be more akin to Hamlet than Romeo & Juliet. I specifically remember Nomura saying there isn't a big love story focus in Versus XIII in one of the earlier interviews. Correct me if I'm wrong someone but I'm sure he said that.

Kagari sure remembers it better, but given the past trailers with the whole duality between the two factions and how they portrayed Stella and Noctis relationship always pointed to a more Romeo & Juliet influence than Hamlet, or rather it was always seem like the main theme of versus.

 

[Koozek]

Nope*, I just meant that that'd be sufficient time for me to pop by again.

Yet another reason for me to start cutting back on my posting. More jumping-to-conclusions. ;p

*

Spoiler

Of course, I'm not saying that you will be disappointed. No jumping to conclusions here either pls! Just wait and see.

Ah, I see.

I think after the next meaty trailer, probably at TGS/PGW in October or next year some time before E3, people will be way less negative and excited again, especially with a release date in sight.
Maybe SE will have an own event like Square Enix 1st Production Department Premiere again, where they revealed FFXIII-2 and showed the first big gameplay trailer of Versus in 2011, to show off the next big FF games like FFXV, FFVIIR, the yet unannounced FFX and FFVII spin-offs, etc.

 

[Via Purifico]

Nice. I eagerly await to see this game closer to release with finalized visuals and polish.

Same here, people can speculate on the story but the game will look beautiful.

I think that goes undisputed.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Same here, people can speculate on the story but the game will look beautiful.

I think that goes undisputed.

So what you are saying is that at worst we'll have a XIII situation here? That's not too---wait!

 

[Shinrin]

Graphics are great. Music is great. Story.. well we don't know yet.

You can have a good looking game with good music, but a crappy story. of course the same can go in reverse, crappy graphics and music. but great story.

Let's just hope they get a Great on all three points. Story is the most important part of a game.

 

[Via Purifico]

So what you are saying is that at worst we'll have a XIII situation here? That's not too---wait!

That's not what I meant lol and I doubt it will be like that where we have missing important plot points reduced to a datalog.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

Kagari sure remembers it better, but given the past trailers with the whole duality between the two factions and how they portrayed Stella and Noctis relationship always pointed to a more Romeo & Juliet influence than Hamlet, or rather it was always seem like the main theme of versus.

There was no Romeo and Juliet aspect, to my knowledge. Nomura never never wanted Versus to have a love story, and the hints that a love story won't be the main theme of XV(they recently said as much) makes me think that's one of the concepts that they plan to stick true to from the early days.

Even the Hamlet comparisons are rather reaching. If we find out Noctis's uncle is responsible(if that even IS his uncle), I'll admit the comparisons are justly noted, but as of right now, it's grasping for straws. It's almost like after they noted "Shakespearean theme"(more than likely to explain the style of mature drama rather than aping actual plot concepts) and most importantly, quoted a line from Hamlet, people can't shake literal inspiration from Shakespeare's works. I don't think it's going to be that literal, guys.

 

[Dark_castle]

Honestly Falk, at this stage, there are too many skeptics on FFXV (myself partially included) that it's rather refreshing to have the likes of you, Philippo, Koozek and Benzy around to spread some positivity and keeping the hope alive. Real talk.

 

[Ran rp]

Yeah, if they can at least get that grass density back with shadows, it'd be great. Hope that L_spiro dude does his magic.





October build made the landscape look way more visually appealing compared to ED.

Fingers crossed. The realistic landscape only really worked for me because it was pulled off so well. But the towns will still look great even if they don't match earlier demos so I'm excited to see more of them.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

There was no Romeo and Juliet aspect, to my knowledge. Nomura never never wanted Versus to have a love story, and the hints that a love story won't be the main theme of XV(they recently said as much) makes me think that's one of the concepts that they plan to stick true to from the early days.

Even the Hamlet comparisons are rather reaching. If we find out Noctis's uncle is responsible(if that even IS his uncle), I'll admit the comparisons are justly noted, but as of right now, it's grasping for straws. It's almost like after they noted "Shakespearean theme"(more than likely to explain the style of mature drama rather than aping actual plot concepts) and most importantly, quoted a line from Hamlet, people can't shake literal inspiration from Shakespeare's works. I don't think it's going to be that literal, guys.

You are looking at it at 1:1 comparissons, rather than the general themes. Regarding Hamlet was the vengeance part and Romeo & Juliet, depicting the friendship or bond that borns between Noctis and Stella, and how they find each other facing each other at different factions, kinda relates to that work.

That relationship always seemed to be the central point of the Versus, which clearly changed with Tabata now.

 

[R-User!]

If Nomura is given the freedom to helm another mainline FF and isn't held back, this is how the main party could potentially look like:

A Fantasy based on J-Pop Reality?!

How bout a fantasy based on fantasy for a change.

Hoping 16 returns to 9's/4's Castle/Medieval aesthetic.

Airship Battle Setpieces Commence!!!

I need Castles rising from the ground to reveal that they are actually Massive Airships, or something I can't imagine until it unfolds before my eyes.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I just can't wait to play another FF game. I think the last one i played was 10?
it's been a while..

 

[Zoe]

Hoping 16 returns to 9's/4's Castle/Medieval aesthetic.

So medieval.

 

[Lifejumper]

We have dissidia and ff12 hd to shorten the wait.

 

[DeSolos]

Yeah, if they can at least get that grass density back with shadows, it'd be great. Hope that L_spiro dude does his magic.





October build made the landscape look way more visually appealing compared to ED.

LPV should make a big difference with lighting, though I wish they could use a different GI technique... LPV is a bit on the inaccurate side. Though compared to having no GI, it's a big improvement.

I'd love to see how their implementation looks though. I think they're using mostly Image Based Lighting for GI now(according to the technical interviews they did with Famitsu in January), which could be a really good complement to LPV. Lionhead is using a similar combination now in Fable Legends. They have Skylighting(which is a form of IBL) + LPV.

Just Skylighting:

Skylighting+LPV

 

[wmlk]

There was no Romeo and Juliet other than it LOOKING like it. Stella didn't like Noctis, and Noctis didn't like Stella. Heck, it's a Nomura story and he doesn't do love stories. He even shot down that there was a romantic connection, saying that this game is about friendship.

 

[The Emperor]

There was no Romeo and Juliet other than it LOOKING like it. Stella didn't like Noctis, and Noctis didn't like Stella. Heck, it's a Nomura story and he doesn't do love stories. He even shot down that there was a romantic connection, saying that this game is about friendship.

Agree and to add to that friendship between bros and roadtrip were words being said since 2008 in interviews.

As far as the trailers...whatever...trailers have always been misleading. XIII trailers made certain characters seem like villains or important side characters who turned out to be nothing ultimately. Doubt Versus was going to that extreme...but trailera are meant to show "cool" bits...i wouldnt be surprised if thats why the stella scenes were in so much, just cus they looked really cool.

 

[R-User!]

So medieval.

Umm, I said 9/4.

You posted a pic of 6. Edit: (Or is that a pic of 4 and I've forgotten?!...)

Sarcasm?

Or a genuine love of that Steam Punk "Medieval".

I'm confused by your post.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

There was no Romeo and Juliet other than it LOOKING like it. Stella didn't like Noctis, and Noctis didn't like Stella. Heck, it's a Nomura story and he doesn't do love stories. He even shot down that there was a romantic connection, saying that this game is about friendship.

Agree and to add to that friendship between bros and roadtrip were words being said since 2008 in interviews.

As far as the trailers...whatever...trailers have always been misleading. XIII trailers made certain characters seem like villains or important side characters who turned out to be nothing ultimately. Doubt Versus was going to that extreme...but trailera are meant to show "cool" bits...i wouldnt be surprised if thats why the stella scenes were in so much, just cus they looked really cool.

I felt Nomura's 2013 XV trailer strongly hinted at a Stella and Noctis romance.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Umm, I said 9/4.

You posted a pic of 6. Edit: (Or is that a pic of 4 and I've forgotten?!...)

Sarcasm?

Or a genuine love of that Steam Punk "Medieval".

I'm confused by your post.

That's VI, the steam city Narshe.

 

[Myths]

Umm, I said 9/4.

You posted a pic of 6. Edit: (Or is that a pic of 4 and I've forgotten?!...)

Sarcasm?

Or a genuine love of that Steam Punk "Medieval".

I'm confused by your post.

Nope, definitely VI so you're right. Anyway, I wouldn't mind their settings used as a base but as with anything there should be something distinguishable about them.

 

[ED Cantu]

I felt Nomura's 2013 XV trailer strongly hinted at a Stella and Noctis romance.

Yep, Noctis and Stella always looked like just a reference to Romeo and Juliet, but in the E3 2013 trailer it really felt that they liked/loved eachother but something happened, I mean with lines like:
Stella: I can't stay any longer
Noctis: My heart won't let go
Stella: Don't worry about me. Live your own life

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Yep, Noctis and Stella always looked like just a reference to Romeo and Juliet, but in the E3 2013 trailer it really felt that they liked/loved eachother but something happened, I mean with lines like:
Stella: I can't stay any longer
Noctis: My heart won't let go
Stella: Don't worry about me. Live your own life

Yeah my feeling is Nomura changed their scenario up somewhat between 2011 and 2013 as the title transitioned from VersusXIII to XV.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

I felt Nomura's 2013 XV trailer strongly hinted at a Stella and Noctis romance.

"Feeling" something isn't proof of the definitive. It's speculative based on personal perception and how the individual reads situations by experience. Not everybody's speculations and theories result in accurate conclusions. But then again, that's kinda the fun in theories, and we have a LOT of them. Boy we have a lot of them.

Yeah my feeling is Nomura changed their scenario up somewhat between 2011 and 2013 as the title transitioned from VersusXIII to XV.

So Tabata's not the only one changing up the formula THAT late in the game?

From what Tabata said in the Famitsu interview(posted earlier in the thread by benzy), " “the bond between them can be seen in the story. We’ll write it with respect; however, it’s not going to be like general love story.”, seems to hint at the type of relationship that Nomura originally wanted to show. Maybe it DID change, but the whole "not a love story" and a focus on friendship over romance was Nomura's original intention. If Nomura changed the relationship late in the development, maybe Tabata changed it back.

 

[unity of the void]

If you say so Sparky! Whatever floats your boat.




Please don't quote posts that intentionally waste vertical space. It's annoying.

edit: nm it was my own post, wasn't wearing my glasses.


In all seriousness though, you know what? I think it's about time I peace out on FFXV threads till at least PAX and TGS too.

Been asked a couple of times in private what I thought of the Gamescom showing. I've been pretty open about my opinion on games I've worked on in the past (Lightning Returns o boy - fun game, but some things could have been left in the oven a little longer) but for FFXV the situation's a little different - Due to how volatile it is I'm either going to look like I'm whiteknighting a product I worked on, or badmouthing a product I worked on, either of which does the game nor me any good. Me posting snarky comments don't help much either - that much I can readily admit.

I'll say this though - Throughout the course of vsXIII's history I've been on both extremes of the hype and snark trains, but at this point, having seen what I have of the FFXV's dev, it's extremely frustrating whenever people jump to conclusions of any sort with respect to where the game stands, based on marketing decisions and/or spontaneous comments from the public faces of the team.

I think it's really best if I just forced myself to take a step back and let the game speak for itself in the long run. Peek into the discussions once in a while, join in the banter, but dip sparingly into the frustration and know when it's time to pull up again.

I feel you. I like looking at new information and screens, but the threads themselves have really rough crowds.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

"Feeling" something isn't proof of the definitive. It's speculative based on personal perception and how the individual reads situations by experience. Not everybody's speculations and theories result in accurate conclusions. But then again, that's kinda the fun in theories, and we have a LOT of them. Boy we have a lot of them.

Well the lines quoted above my previous posts strongly hinted at it. So I suppose feeling is the wrong way to describe.

Of course the lines were said out of context and it's a context we will now never know, but none the less they were deliberately presented to us in a certain way to make us believe that there is a possibility of romance.

 

[benzy]

LPV should make a big difference with lighting, though I wish they could use a different GI technique... LPV is a bit on the inaccurate side. Though compared to having no GI, it's a big improvement.

I'd love to see how their implementation looks though. I think they're using mostly Image Based Lighting for GI now(according to the technical interviews they did with Famitsu in January), which could be a really good complement to LPV. Lionhead is using a similar combination now in Fable Legends. They have Skylighting(which is a form of IBL) + LPV.

I remember reading about the adaptive ray-bundled tracing they researched for Luminous to quickly bake lightmaps for GI in larger scenes. I think any form of GI is pretty impressive in a world of this scale with changing time cycles.

 

[Koozek]

Honestly Falk, at this stage, there are too many skeptics on FFXV (myself partially included) that it's rather refreshing to have the likes of you, Philippo, Koozek and Benzy around to spread some positivity and keeping the hope alive. Real talk.

Thanks! Ain't nobody got time for negativity.

I think it helps a lot to know a bit about game development and understand how production processes work, how often games don't even come together until the very few weeks before going gold, etc. (see The Last of Us or, hell, Ocarina of Time).
There are so many sub-systems and gameplay mechanics that are worked on in parallel and all these small pieces in huge, complex projects like this often only fall into place towards the end when everything is close to finished. Especially stuff like graphics optimization happens later on in game development (many games run bad during development), so nobody should worry about resolution and framerate when it already was in a playable state nearly 1.5 years before release with Episode Duscae. The groundwork is mostly done, a lot will be improved in the next 12+ months (read L_spiro's posts on GF).
The biggest problem of FFXV is that we've basically witnessed the "pre-production" phase in form of Versus for nearly 7 years before its reveal. We saw redesigns of characters and reworks of story elements, which happens with EVERY game in development - we just saw it all instead of only seeing the end result. Check out Unseen64 and you'll be mind-blown how much games change permanently throughout the whole process.

Cut Tabata's team some slack. They're trying to salvage Nomura's over-ambitious vision, which, while great, was clearly not feasible (unless you actually want the game to come out in 2019), and now they're fighting against 8 years of fan-fiction, head-canon and dreams of Versus fans. Versus as we know or, let's say, as we've thought we knew is dead. This is a new game that started development in 2013. It's only been two years and for a game with this ambitious a scale that is not much. Of course they will cut some things to meet the deadline and that's a totally normal thing to do in game development, even in the last year.

In the end all of this negativity doesn't matter when the next, hopefully good, trailer is shown and everybody, who in the last few days made over-dramatic statements like "I'm out, won't buy anymore." or "Okay, I'm done with this series." because of one badly edited trailer, is instantly crawling back again anyway.

Spoiler

Until the next bad trailer comes

 

[Brocken]

FFXV is in a really weird place where you release too much info, people bitch that the game's been pretty much spoiled, and you release too little, you get this.

/thread

 

[Philippo]

Honestly Falk, at this stage, there are too many skeptics on FFXV (myself partially included) that it's rather refreshing to have the likes of you, Philippo, Koozek and Benzy around to spread some positivity and keeping the hope alive. Real talk.

4 Warriors of Light.

As our predecessor M_Night once said, BELIEVE!

 

[NoctisVsStar]

#Believe

 

[UrbanRats]

If Nomura is given the freedom to helm another mainline FF and isn't held back, this is how the main party could potentially look like:

Fine with me.

 

[benzy]

Honestly Falk, at this stage, there are too many skeptics on FFXV (myself partially included) that it's rather refreshing to have the likes of you, Philippo, Koozek and Benzy around to spread some positivity and keeping the hope alive. Real talk.

Time to join the light side Dark.

 

[Turin]

Apparently new press release shots

This pic stirs me. In a good way.

 

[Inuhanyou]

There was no Romeo and Juliet other than it LOOKING like it. Stella didn't like Noctis, and Noctis didn't like Stella. Heck, it's a Nomura story and he doesn't do love stories. He even shot down that there was a romantic connection, saying that this game is about friendship.

Gonna need some citations for these claims.

Also its a funny thing to state that "Nomura doesn't do love stories" when Sora and Riku exist.

Also, he's doing FF7r in the director's chair. One has read a lot of his previous interviews for earlier projects, the exact opposite impression is given

 

[unity of the void]

Time to join the light side Dark.

Haha yes!

 

[Turin]

There was no Romeo and Juliet other than it LOOKING like it. Stella didn't like Noctis, and Noctis didn't like Stella. Heck, it's a Nomura story and he doesn't do love stories. He even shot down that there was a romantic connection, saying that this game is about friendship.

I'd like to hope so.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

I'd like to hope so.

Don't know if that changed, though, from 2006 to Nomura's departure and Tabata taking the reins to now. We don't know the full extent of how this game changed over the years, let alone how it changed under Nomura's supervision. A lot of the stuff he talked about was at a time when they were barely starting the write the story. Things are subject to change, change again and change some more. Only the folks at Square Enix know what's going on here.

Again, I've stated this before, I'm hoping somebody who knows Japanese rushes out to buy the Ultimania when it's finally released to translate some scrumptious tidbits regarding the game's development(and dropped concepts).

 

[Harkins1721]

Depends. I love old school anime art, I love fantasy inspired drawing. I love Akihiko Yoshida's work. I love Yusuke Naora's work. What about you?

I honestly love both old school and new stuff. I do in fact like some FFXV designs more so than some old art work though.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Time to join the light side Dark.

Lol, believe!!!

 

[Abdiel]

Time to join the light side Dark.

I'm still on the positivity train. I loved ED, and I have seen enough from SE in the last year and a half to see some serious changes in the way the company is approaching game development. We're seeing Star Ocean coming back, this game actually on track to release, KH3 in good standing dev wise... They've made outright statements about working to correct the mis-steps of the last generation.

I'm willing to give them a chance to really kill it, without holding vXIII over their heads, because the game is gone, and pining for what we wished could have been means only disappointing myself.

So here's to Hope! Not the XIII character (at least he got better in XIII-2, though).

 

[Zoe]

Umm, I said 9/4.

You posted a pic of 6. Edit: (Or is that a pic of 4 and I've forgotten?!...)

Sarcasm?

Or a genuine love of that Steam Punk "Medieval".

I'm confused by your post.

Sorry about that, when you said castle ship, my mind replaced 4 with 6.

 

[Dark_castle]

Time to join the light side Dark.

I can't Tabata has to do a little more to earn my sword and allegiance. For now, I'll stay in the shade of grey.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

4 Warriors of Light.

As our predecessor M_Night once said, BELIEVE!

You don't know what it's like.

Rallying the troops. Uniting FF fans and hyping everyone for Gamescom and the trailer. Look at my thread for the 'Dawn' trailer tease. Everyone was so optimistic and happy. They all believed because I promised them riches.

Then reality slapped us in the face. Tabata wronged us and fooled us with his trickery.

I must shoulder that responsibility and atone for his sins. This crushing disappointment is a result of people following me in to hell. It was like lambs to slaughter.

I gotta go_ly_dow for a while, but one day I shall return and rise again.

Spoiler

the bolded is my psn name..add me.XV GAF!

 

[Philippo]

You don't know what it's like.

Rallying the troops. Uniting FF fans and hyping everyone for Gamescom and the trailer. Look at my thread for the 'Dawn' trailer tease. Everyone was so optimistic and happy. They all believed because I promised them riches.

Then reality slapped us in the face. Tabata wronged us and fooled us with his trickery.

I must shoulder that responsibility and atone for his sins. This crushing disappointment is a result of people following me in to hell. It was like lambs to slaughter.

I gotta go_ly_dow for a while, but one day I shall return and rise again.

Spoiler

the bolded is my psn name..add me.XV GAF!

Worry do not my brethren, for we shall keep the position warm for you!

Spoiler

gonna add asap

 

[Shinrin]

You don't know what it's like.

Rallying the troops. Uniting FF fans and hyping everyone for Gamescom and the trailer. Look at my thread for the 'Dawn' trailer tease. Everyone was so optimistic and happy. They all believed because I promised them riches.

Then reality slapped us in the face. Tabata wronged us and fooled us with his trickery.

I must shoulder that responsibility and atone for his sins. This crushing disappointment is a result of people following me in to hell. It was like lambs to slaughter.

I gotta go_ly_dow for a while, but one day I shall return and rise again.

Spoiler

the bolded is my psn name..add me.XV GAF!

It happens man. maybe there will be a better trailer soon.

Spoiler

added you even though my internet is crappy tonight.

 

[birthbysleep]

Yep, Noctis and Stella always looked like just a reference to Romeo and Juliet, but in the E3 2013 trailer it really felt that they liked/loved eachother but something happened, I mean with lines like:
Stella: I can't stay any longer
Noctis: My heart won't let go
Stella: Don't worry about me. Live your own life

While I agree, it seems the translation seemed to take some liberty with this. In Japanese Noctis says something more like "I cannot forget" instead of "my heart won't let go". Also in the TGS trailer, Prompto's "your date's already waiting for you" isn't quite the same in Japanese.

But I loved X and VIII so if a Stella/Noctis romance was never in the cards but a Luna/Noctis is, that might be the first change I welcome.