Final Fantasy XV Gamescom Active Time Report - CNN reporting live from disaster scene
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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jimmypython
Member
father-son they say?
vs
There's this misconception that Versus XIII was a done game and Tabata's team is changing everything, people still haven't learned that Nomura loves to make good-looking "concept trailers"? Even the E3 2013 trailer was mostly target render for this reason. If you notice the trailers that came after (with the change at helm) are instead all ingame engine, yes they aren't as spectacular as that E3 one, but they aren't overpromising anything that won't appear in the game.
I understand the negativity, but baseless assumptions aren't worth it.
I hope after all it's said and done they will publish an Ultimania with the detailed changes from the original story, so people will finally stop pretending to know the "true" Versus story.
As for the de-Asianising, I really don't see it. FF has always had this Eastern + Western influences, they hired Roberto Ferrari (who is an Italian artist who grew up drawing Japanese anime) for this reason.
I understand the negativity, but baseless assumptions aren't worth it.
I hope after all it's said and done they will publish an Ultimania with the detailed changes from the original story, so people will finally stop pretending to know the "true" Versus story.
As for the de-Asianising, I really don't see it. FF has always had this Eastern + Western influences, they hired Roberto Ferrari (who is an Italian artist who grew up drawing Japanese anime) for this reason.
Zoe
Member
It's only been Prompto and Regis so far, but the difference in bone structure in Regis' design is undeniable.
It's nice and all, but I feel they need to ditch ATRs entirely. Or turn them into a kind of Nintendo Treehouse thing, where they expand on whatever is shown during a conference. I want them to go back to the original Versus XIII marketing, except reflecting that a game is actually being made.
It feels to me they're overcompensating for the longtime silence with all these attempts to reach out to fans, while at the same time following a more typical marketing schedule with the actual information they release. It's the worst of both worlds. Results in overexposure like with Episode Duscae, or in huge disappointment like with this Gamescom stuff, and only occasionally in people actually being satisfied.
Go back to the basics, and emphasize that "occasionally going to release stuff that really excites people" thing. Ditch the rest.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Good point.
The original ATR was exactly that, they showed the big reveal (TGS14) and then used the ATR to answers all the fans questions, everyone was happy. Go back to that.
They don't need to make monthly ATRs, they should make an ATR everytime they have something big to show, they can't dilute important informations (like a realease date/window) and tease the fans, it's the worst thing to do.
S-E PR's is the same that posted Phil Rogers comment about the TR timed exclusivity:"We love our fans so much so we're making this game a timed exclusive". Right.
They need to hire a new marketing team.
Man, watching Gregor's livestreamed Let's Play of Episode Duscae on SE's stage right now I can't stress enough how big of a hurdle the character designs will be here in the West. Literally 90% of the comments on this stream, and any other before when the demo came out, were "lol, crap emo design, gayyy".
They can't do this anymore in today's market if they want to be popular. Next FF has to have less spikey hair - and no, that doesn't mean they'd have to go the Bald Space Marine route. There can be a good middle-ground.
The argument that their main target audience is still Japanese teenagers doesn't make sense anymore considering how the Japanese console market is doing nowadays. Of course I also understand the sentiment that they would sacrifice their Japanese "identity" for mass-appeal, but hey, let's face it, AAA is big, risky business and you have to accomodate to modern tastes if you want to succeed here.
Many elements in this game are impressive to outsiders of the franchise (who are the most important to revitalize the brand for the next generations) when you read/hear some of the reactions to the set-pieces, battles or summons f.e., but as soon as they see the characters they are turned off instantly, and honestly, I somehow get that superficial feeling of dislike even if I don't think it should be a reason to not even give a game a chance. Like, I can only roll my eyes when I see some of the bland western Tolkien-rip-off or WoW/Dota-style character designs in WRPG/MOBA.
They can't do this anymore in today's market if they want to be popular. Next FF has to have less spikey hair - and no, that doesn't mean they'd have to go the Bald Space Marine route. There can be a good middle-ground.
The argument that their main target audience is still Japanese teenagers doesn't make sense anymore considering how the Japanese console market is doing nowadays. Of course I also understand the sentiment that they would sacrifice their Japanese "identity" for mass-appeal, but hey, let's face it, AAA is big, risky business and you have to accomodate to modern tastes if you want to succeed here.
Many elements in this game are impressive to outsiders of the franchise (who are the most important to revitalize the brand for the next generations) when you read/hear some of the reactions to the set-pieces, battles or summons f.e., but as soon as they see the characters they are turned off instantly, and honestly, I somehow get that superficial feeling of dislike even if I don't think it should be a reason to not even give a game a chance. Like, I can only roll my eyes when I see some of the bland western Tolkien-rip-off or WoW/Dota-style character designs in WRPG/MOBA.
I'm kind of indifferent regarding the character designs in FFXV, but what exactly do you think is a feature of the characters that is so revolting? The black clothes and spiky hair?
On the other hand I don't think it's a great idea to try to appeal to people whose homophobia is triggered by men who aren't built like the Hulk... But I am not a businessman.
vainglorious
Member
Doesn't seem so. Gregor didn't really play live. He talked over a montage of the best scenes he made before out of footage of his private playthrough (using Chrono Trigger and classic FF music, which was confusing to some watching who thought it would be the actual game music, LOL) and described everything to the audience. It's really for folks who don't know much about the game. They also showed a few concept arts before and talked about the game's motto/premise, etc.
Zoe
Member
Just because he's not playable doesn't mean people's prejudices won't affect their impression of him.
Oh, then I'm assuming this is what they showed.
They should have publicized these more:
All of this is more impressive than any footage they've shown in Gamescom, tbh. lol.
vainglorious
Member
This post speaks a hard truth.
I think FF12 has the prefect balance with its cast and presentation.
We will get that Cor dude in FF15 joining the party and Tabata has mentioned other guest characters joining the party so who knows, maybe FF15 will find a happy medium between the two aesthetics as well.
I have friends who haven't touched FF since the PS1 days who are incredibly impressed with the Rumah summon. Like literally going "Oh shit" when they see it - so the vein for Square to tap is there. And these are people that play a lot of GTA and Call of Duty these days. This game has the potential for mass market appeal - but the characters will ultimately make or break it I think.
Japanese or English?
If its english I can understand (hopefully they can improve), but I think the Japanese dub so far is good.
vainglorious
Member
I like Noctis' voice.
I do not like Ignis' try hard British accent.
"I could use a baaaaaath." It's awful.
Their insistence to continue the current ATR setup is the problem.
Megidolaon
Member
FFXV aren't my favorite character designs ever, but I sure as heck don't want them to go the stereotypical "Western" route either for mass appeal. I love Japanese games because of the unique style and culture and they allow me to get away from the testosterone fetish in most mainstream games.
They at very least need to start diversifying the casts in future games. Two or three pretty characters are ok, and I understand they're trying to appeal to the market, but God does it get boring. There's no need to have the entire cast look like models. Get a little more creative and different.
SolidSnakex
Member
That's been going on ever since FF became a big franchise in the west. It's nothing new and not anything to suggest that they can't continue with art like that.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Instead of addressing any concerns they're just making us more skeptical.
vainglorious
Member
The truth is Square is an international company. Huge swaths of the team working on FF15 aren't ethnically Japanese. The team is actually pretty diverse. I love Japanese games too, but pretending that FF hasn't been a cultural melting pot is unfair as well.
Megidolaon
Member
Yeah, no doubt. And I've got nothing against a more diverse cast.
But I just don't want them to cater to kids who rant about "gay emo designs". FF7 is a good example of a hit while still being really Japanese. Yet not every character is super pretty either.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
1) No female, full sausage fest
2) Everyone wears same-y, uninteresting leather outfit and they are all in black.
3) All are bishounen
4) No non-human character
5) No racial diversity
It really is a pretty bizarre and easily off-putting setup for main party characters in a RPG.
First off, Twitch chat is a miserable pile of trash. You shouldn't be basing anything on that. Secondly, if western fans don't like what the Japanese game is doing then too bad. The game is still going to sell a lot and if a small segment of people on the internet don't like it then there's no helping it.
Zoe
Member
There are tons of games that appeal to those preferences. Maybe play those instead of insisting this one change?
Absolutely true. It's literally just a bunch of guys trying to be as belligerent as possible while posting shitloads of :kappa:'s. You can not take it seriously. If anything, it exists as a sort of weird postmodern comedy.
jimmypython
Member
seriously what were they thinking!?
but I think the biggest problem this time is the poorly put together trailer. Father weeping for a full minute is simply a waste of time and not enough information....
Relaxed Muscle
Member
After all the insistence of being closer to the fans and keeping them updated, I feel that rather that backing down from that promises, they are doubling down on it, even if they clearly now is a bad thing.
They probably think the backlash for not having more ATR will be big, but I truly believe more ppl wouldn't care at all.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
True, but one cannot deny that the boyband thing that XV has going for it is a rarity for the genre. Not necessarily a good rarity, mind you. JRPG almost always at least have 2 females in the party, for gender diversity.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I understand that the lack of female characters is unfortunate, but even if I don't like them that much, current characters are the more palatable since...well, XII.
XIII trilogy designs (character and cloth design) was pretty bad. This is an improvement.
It's not really a boy band thing.
While your general idea isn't wrong, you have to remember that the twitch chat is pretty toxic and only a fractions of the viewers actually chat (a moderated chat would never tolerate homophobic/racists comments, while a non-moderated chat is full of them). Regarding the popularity of the "Japanese style" I don't think it's bad at all, just look at how popular One Piece, Attack on Titan, DBZ, Naruto are. The series target audience are still teenagers (just like those shonen shows) and it's one of those series that have a large female audience. The cast does indeed lack variety, but we have to remember that the game started as a spin off. There's no doubt that FFXVI will have a more diverse casts.
After all they captured the mass market in the West with a spikey boy as a protagonist and this spikey boy is going to return in a remake that's going to be huge sales-wise.
vainglorious
Member
Listen, we have supersexyCidney bending over cars to fill that quota instead ok.
:[
Twitch chat's job is to hate on whatever it is. Don't get me wrong, I love it, I find it hilarious, but if there was a female party member, they would just spam "GRILL
" every single time she showed up.
It's their thing, you can't really base anything off of it.
And what's up with the direction the Regis design conversation went? The way you guys are talking, someone might think they made Regis look like a bald marine or something. He still fits the game very well, imo.
The parhaps "manlier" take on the character isn't as much of a departure from a game that had Cor.
The impression I got from the new Regis was that their intention was to make him more "fatherly"? I'm not sure if that makes any sense whatsoever.
It's their thing, you can't really base anything off of it.
And what's up with the direction the Regis design conversation went? The way you guys are talking, someone might think they made Regis look like a bald marine or something. He still fits the game very well, imo.
The parhaps "manlier" take on the character isn't as much of a departure from a game that had Cor.
The impression I got from the new Regis was that their intention was to make him more "fatherly"? I'm not sure if that makes any sense whatsoever.
Japanese games should remain Japanese. They tried the western approach last gen and it backfired pretty hard. Not every game needs to look the same and appeal to the same crowd. It's wonderful seeing different cultures express themselves in various games.
Do you believe every JRPG needs a fixed gender ratio? Diversity within the genre is impossible should all the games within said genre strive for equal representation. There are JRPGs with all-female cast aswell. No need to force men into those either.
Mostly the spiky hair and all-black, leather clothes. Topless Gladiolus. The whiny voice of Prompto, who is obviously the least popular (even the official surveys said so).
I agree with your last sentence, but yeah, it's just business and different tastes in different markets. There's a reason that most western gamers would rather like to play as someone like Basch/Auron instead of Vaan/Tidus. Cor instead of Prompto as a permament main char, shorter, less spikey hair on Noctis and Ignis, and clothes design a bit more simple like in Versus (minus Noctis outfit) would be so much better already. You'd still have a distinct Japanese style but more tolerable in young, western gamers' eyes.
In retrospect I think FFXII already had this very balance I'm talking about (minus Vaan and Penelo obviously). Definitely the overall most classy character design in the series so far.
All the other new character designs from the FFXV E3 re-reveal were ace though, really. It's only the main cast who is a remnant of Versus days. The red-haired dude, the black-haired woman and the old gruffy men have the perfect mix between "generic"/realistic Western and distinctively Japanese design, IMO. I think most of those are actually Roberto Ferrari's work. Hope we'll someday hear more about his involvement.
This makes total sense actually. I think the reason behind the redesign is obvious, and there's probably more layers of depth to it that we can't tell right now.
I think people forget that redesigns happen with the intent to improve the overall product. It's just that it's gotten to a point where even their marketing isn't even consistent. We knew old Regis existed four months ago in the demo with the exact same story premise of Noctis, Luna, and Regis being presumed dead. Now, it just feels as if they're changing things on a whim with a year before release. They should have explained themselves much, much better.
This is probably the biggest nagging issue I have with their Gamescom promotion. The whole old Regis existing a few months before Gamescom with the exact same premise. Unfortunately, I don't think big-name sites really care about details like these, but I feel like asking him about it would shed a lot of light into what's going on.
It's a weird cultural bias that I don't think people even realize that they have. The boy band comments are so tired and trite at this point.
Teletraan1
Banned
Whatever people want to call it is not the issue. The whatever you want to call it looking all male cast is kind of off putting to me. It is the kind of thing where I would be embarrassed to play this in front of other people who aren't into a very specific whatever you want to call this. I like at least a diverse cast, throw in some non human characters. This game at least on the surface is the opposite of that.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Not to mention that the kind of people who say shit like that on streams are not even remotely the primary audience.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Can't really agree with you there. I hate FF13, but the design of Lightning, Fang, Sazh and Snow are pretty good and diversified. Vanille and Hope are ok-ish. Lightning as the lead actually looks great design wise.
For 15, I like Ignis look the best, but everyone share very similar clothing and color, it's getting really stale.
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