I feel like you would have to be someone that doesn't play a lot of open-world games to pay any kind of real compliment to Duscae. It's flat, it's barren, it's boring, and it's going to be a real shame if the other locales are like it.
Final Fantasy XV Gamescom Active Time Report - CNN reporting live from disaster scene
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
- Start date
I feel like you would have to be someone that doesn't play a lot of open-world games to pay any kind of real compliment to Duscae. It's flat, it's barren, it's boring, and it's going to be a real shame if the other locales are like it.
Empty spaces are not a problem. In fact I think they're a necessity. Too many open world games suffer from potatoland syndrome whereby an epic journey is 100m to the west.
To evoke a sense of scale you have to have negative space in order to convey that the world is large, which ultimately is something fairly important in a road trip game.
The only problem with empty areas is if they force you to stay too long in said areas doing pointless busywork.
You're telling me this feels enclosed?
I edited the size so it doesn't hammer bandwidth.
original (credit jim2point0) is here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166618820&postcount=6760
Compared to open plains absolutely, that's the type of area you would need to travel with care. There are very clear and limited paths of least resistance placed by designers. No you aren't limited to only taking those paths, but the level design strongly encourages them. And for the area, they completely fit, of course horse trails would be clear, that's exactly how it should be.
In FFXV they're going for a different motif, and that motif calls for a different level design. Considering how varied the topology of the world map is, I'm sure we'll encounter areas like mountain ranges that will be more like that, but they're going to have more open areas too. Feels like the PS1 FF games to me, and that's a good thing.
I felt really insulted after Tabata's comments to Eurogamer about not expecting people who followed the game for years to be upset. Yes games change but usually not this much and usually not without the developer coming out about it right when they do.
Are you sure? We sure haven't seen enough of the game to make such a judgement.
Shadow of the Colossus is Case A, B, and C for this.
YankeeDonB
Member
I always laugh when people bring up how boring the landscape of FFXV looks. There's no level variation. There's nothing do do, everything seems empty.
Truly a fantasy based on reality, or "Man, why must we live in a reality based on reality?!". FFXV adds fantasy aspects and people whine how it's not as "realistic" anymore, yet, they whine how boring some of the terrain is that's trying to be "realistic". And I'm not saying there isn't variety in our real world as far as landscapes are concerned, but we've only seen, really, Duscae to make a valid comparison. We don't know what other areas of FFXV's world look like. If the map's any indication, it will be widely varied(the map's topography's all over the place).
In short, FUCK YOU North American prairie and desert lands, why can't you be more like the ares in the Witcher 3?! I... know there might be other ares in the world that bare more resemblance, but we aren't talking about them, we're talking about YOU! Shape up you boring, uneventful and empty pieces of land!
Lol, agreed. I find Duscae very pretty (of course I grew up traveling the American West). If it were the entire map for an rpg, no, it wouldn't be enough to explore. But it's basically a field and lake next to a rest stop.
And most people's favorite JRPGs have large chunks of world that are just flat green turf, and we still love those games.
artsi
Member
Duscae seems to be in this area marked with red, so if you compare it to the rest of the topology it's pretty flat.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I feel the worst was after the renaming, Nomura basically told the whole world that Versus was finally coming, this time for real.
Then Tabata came up and is basically making a whole new game, just keeping some general themes and characters.
I don't get the effort to bring back the game and basically re-announce it at E3, to change it back 1 year later, and then keep changing it.
Meccanical
Member
There seems to be a false equivalence of an open world aka seamless world and a world map.
They aren't the same.
We need to stop pretending they are.
They aren't the same.
We need to stop pretending they are.
BossDarkseid
Member
Sorta this. I'm like 40 hours into TW3, probably less, explored most of Velen but dear god...it's gotten pretty boring. Maybe it's placebo but it feels like I'm running across very familiar lands. The world building is really good though in that most things have a logical reason for existing in the world but it is pretty potatoland at times. I've heard Skellige isn't much better
I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in TW3 world at times, or why there are so many identikit feeling villages. I guess it's...TW3 feels like a game that doesn't have enough variety to support its scope, imo. Duscae...feels like countryside in the XV world. There's a smattering of things to see and some nice vistas and landmarks etc but it's probably a few shades too big for what's there. It feels kinda realistic and logical for the world though as a countryside road stop area.
Edit: as for the game changing its an area they should have been more open with. I remember the announcement trailer for v13 and while I felt like I kept up to date with it so much time went between tangible info and progress is just distanced myself from it so the changes don't bother me too much because some bits of the concept could easily remain. I wonder how much of reworked bits and pieces is based on the Nomura notes of a versus 13 saga and how much was talked about before Nomura went over to KH3. I get this weird feeling if v13 came out we'd find out Noctis beats Stella in their street fight and that ends up being the end of her involvement
I quite like the potential of Luna if she is the one who summons Leviathan
Relaxed Muscle
Member
world map =/= open world
Nothing is changing, it's just a rename.
We're staying close to the original vision as much as we can.
This isn't Versus XIII anymore.
That is my point. Duscae seems to be modeling a river basin or a large "Rift" valley. We haven't seen any other environments demonstrating said openness. The topology you posted seems to contradict the very notion that the game overall is conveying a feeling of freedom and wide open spaces in the environment.
is Duscae just analgous to this area in W3? With other areas having smaller and different negative spaces of varying sizes, like the witcher.
Original by jim2point0
YankeeDonB
Member
The Witcher 3 Duscae comparisons are a little silly. W3 is a full game, and I'm sure XV won't all look like Duscae.
A more fair comparison is parts of White Orchard (Duscae feels tutorialish too). Generic but pretty fantasy land.
A more fair comparison is parts of White Orchard (Duscae feels tutorialish too). Generic but pretty fantasy land.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Sorta this. I'm like 40 hours into TW3, probably less, explored most of Velen but dear god...it's gotten pretty boring. Maybe it's placebo but it feels like I'm running across very familiar lands. The world building is really good though in that most things have a logical reason for existing in the world but it is pretty potatoland at times. I've heard Skellige isn't much better
I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in TW3 world at times, or why there are so many identikit feeling villages. I guess it's...TW3 feels like a game that doesn't have enough variety to support its scope, imo. Duscae...feels like countryside in the XV world. There's a smattering of things to see and some nice vistas and landmarks etc but it's probably a few shades too big for what's there. It feels kinda realistic and logical for the world though as a countryside road stop area.
I know that for some people feels like "?" calls them and they are irremediably attracted to go to them (I'm one of them), but you don't need too. Witcher 3 is a game that lets you pick easily your pace. You want to do main quest stuff? Free to do so! Want to do one of the numerous sidequests and questlines? Do so! Go ahead! Want to find every "?" of the map? Hey, all yours!
Main quests have relatively low level requeriments, sidequests are open and rarely attached to main events and mostly those are to quite far events from where they are avaliable, so you aren't likely to miss many quests unless you will to do so.
Witcher 3 is a massive game, in every sense of the world, but it also easily adapts to your playstyle.
I can tell you with a lot of authority that this isn't a plain
.https://youtu.be/txnngFuV_Ss
If you want me to say FFXV is going to beat the Witcher on the rich foliage front, no way. Absolutely not. Ever since October FFXV has been cutting back on foliage like it's the plague.
What I will say is, I expect it to be like the PS1 world maps. A lot of nothing areas you can grind in, dotted with places to see. I can't guarantee that the overworld in between will be all that varied, but they tend to be designed around the landmarks within them. And in the previous FF games, even the really linear ones, the landmarks(cities, caves, dungeons) are always very distinct.
This quote of his really makes me sad in retrospect:
http://jpgames.de/2015/02/jpgames-de-unser-interview-mit-hajime-tabata/
I mean... I understand if you need to change things, but don't get our hopes up...
Yes he did say that. Which is why what was said this week makes little sense.
artsi
Member
Taking scale into account the open areas that look small here in the map should be actually pretty large in game (as those tiny white things are entire cities), but it's true we have to see that later what they will really look like.
At least there should be variety, that's what I was primarily trying to point out.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I try to think of it this way. We aren't ever getting Versus XIII, but XV still looks good, and now we are getting a Nomura directed FF7 instead. This could end up working out better.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I keep hearing about a "prerendered" FFXV trailer.
Did that amazing 2013 E3 FFXV reveal trailer was really prerendered? Nothing from that was in game? Cause that was a big reason why I thought this game was closer to completion that it really was.
If true: why didn't this one get all the hate and shame that that Killzone 2 reveal got?
Did that amazing 2013 E3 FFXV reveal trailer was really prerendered? Nothing from that was in game? Cause that was a big reason why I thought this game was closer to completion that it really was.
If true: why didn't this one get all the hate and shame that that Killzone 2 reveal got?
I can tell you with a lot of authority that this isn't a plain
https://youtu.be/txnngFuV_Ss
If you want me to say FFXV is going to beat the Witcher on the rich foliage front, no way. Absolutely not. Ever since October FFXV has been cutting back on foliage like it's the plague.
What I will say is, I expect it to be like the PS1 world maps. A lot of nothing areas you can grind in, dotted with places to see. I can't guarantee that the overworld in between will be all that varied, but they tend to be designed around the landmarks within them. And in the previous FF games, even the really linear ones, the landmarks(cities, caves, dungeons) are always very distinct.
My issue isn't whether one game has more foliage than another. Rather it is with your openness statement (see my reply to Artsi). Duscae has that flat basin like openness, but nothing else about that topology evokes something similar. We haven't seen any other ecosystems or environments that are similar to Duscae.
It isn't a question of what is better or worse, but rather are they really creating empty environments as a matter of design. We have very little visual evidence as we haven't seen anything at a large scale beyond Duscae.
YankeeDonB
Member
I can tell you with a lot of authority that this isn't a plain
If you want me to say FFXV is going to beat the Witcher on the rich foliage front, no way. Absolutely not. Ever since October FFXV has been cutting back on foliage like it's the plague.
What I will say is, I expect it to be like the PS1 world maps. A lot of nothing areas you can grind in, dotted with places to see. I can't guarantee that the overworld in between will be all that varied, but they tend to be designed around the landmarks within them. And in the previous FF games, even the really linear ones, the landmarks(cities, caves, dungeons) are always very distinct.
Pretty close to my take on it too. Duscae is a place to travel through on the way to somewhere important to the story (Lestallum, Titan shard). There might be interesting stuff in it (like the goblin cave, which looks at least twice as good as any of W3's caves, despite feeling empty) but it's not a destination in of itself.
The problem with the demo is that, after 2 or 3 hours you realize it's fairly barren. But if you just stop while driving by? It's really pretty. When they first showed the crew pulling their car off by that valley and jumping down the hill in a previous ATR, a lot of people on here were psyched with how good it looked. Now we've been staring at it for a year =P
There's a balance to strike. You need to find a level of density that's appropriate for the game. I don't feel like I'm on epic adventure running around Duscae, I feel like my time is largely being wasted because SE needs their game to feel "next-gen", even if it's in a very sterile way.
In general I think they make a huge gamble getting in to this kind of design. Most JRPGs have pacing problems as it is. That's only going to get worse with an open-world. And while that can be okay in WRPGs and action games, JROGs tend to have very set, directed narratives. It's gonna stick out a lot more here than in other games, in all likelihood.
Edit: SoTC is an anomaly in so many ways. They could try their hardest and never touch that game. Come on now.
My impression from Duscae was that it is only a space to drive through. Everything else is optional.
One of the issues that open world games run into is, as you said, pacing issues. The thing that the better open world games do is provide vignettes and small stories that fill in the world as a whole, where the main story is a thread to tie all these stories together. In this way pacing issues only become a problem for those people that don't want to engage in the smaller stories. They could be trying this, but attempting a road trip with a singular epic narrative is a real problem.
Supermanisdead
Member
It was all fake, but many people still clinged to the crazy thought that it was real until finally everyone was worn down and admitted the real game is going to be nothing like that.
SE themselves have since said it was too.
Alex_Mexico
Member
The fuck? Why didn't I see any outrage back then? The Killzone 2 brouhaha over that initial prerendered trailer being passed for real was enormous and rightfully so. Why didn't I see anything about FFXV back then?
They only recently admitted it.
Icyflamez96
Member
I don't think it ever stopped being like that. We can't really judge FFXV on that front until we play the whole game.
unity of the void
Member
I don't think that's something to really worry about. Every FF has had a wide variety of "spectacular" environments. FFXV is carrying a LOT of weight for SE so I can't imagine they'd forego that part of it.
Well the cities shown (Insomnia, Lestallum, Accordo) are all varied and unique.
So i'd say it's pretty safe to expect the same kind of variety in wild areas.
Icyflamez96
Member
I'm still not really worried about the design of the world outside of cities. First of all, I don't really have a problem with how Duscae looks anyway because I compare it to older FFs where the world map is generally plain. I think it's rad to have basically that in a realistic scale, and it's not even as plain as a lot of the environments in other FF world maps.
2, The whole game probably wont be as vanilla as Duscae. It's highly likely that it's a starting area.
2, The whole game probably wont be as vanilla as Duscae. It's highly likely that it's a starting area.
Icyflamez96
Member
I prefer the new king
It really seems like ya'll hate things just cause they're different, not cause they're worse.
"It seems like you like things because they're different, not because they're better"
That's how silly that comment sounds. Opinions.
No. The original had no reason being changed. That's why people are mad.I prefer the new king
It really seems like ya'll hate things just cause they're different, not cause they're worse.
It's just incredibly saddening, like the fans excited for Versus just suddenly don't matter to them. I just don't get this whole thing since the re-reveal.
I prefer the new king
It really seems like ya'll hate things just cause they're different, not cause they're worse.
need to stop changing shit that doesn't need to be changed and just make the damn game.
Meccanical
Member
Well it's kind of sad to be a fan of a game that never existed.
But SE has no one to blame but themselves for that.
But SE has no one to blame but themselves for that.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Huh? How can any of you say what the "reason" for an artistic change is? Do you realize how absurd that sounds? They didn't throw a dart at a character design.
Honest, yet stupid question.
Let's say FFXVI took the open world route ala Dark Souls or Bloodborne. Go where you want to go, short cuts, secrets, world geography that made sense...etc. However, the world is definitely a lot smaller (but filled with content). Although, in return you get extreme polish and a constant locked 30fps, and a shorter release time frame.
Let's say FFXVI took the open world route ala Dark Souls or Bloodborne. Go where you want to go, short cuts, secrets, world geography that made sense...etc. However, the world is definitely a lot smaller (but filled with content). Although, in return you get extreme polish and a constant locked 30fps, and a shorter release time frame.
To be honest, I'm getting really sick of huge open worlds. They're a chore to go through. I'm looking at you, Duscae, Witcher, Twilight Princess (not looking forward to WiiU Zelda's world...)
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Honestly, I don't like Nomura that much.
But I also didn't see the necesity of changing the whole script and characters he created, because at that point, why don't make a new game?
It feels like SE thought that a more dark and sad shakesperian FF plot was too much for a mainline entry and they had to make it more traditional.
Yeah, Shakespere might be to bold for a FF game, and knowing SE I firmly believe this.
Via Purifico
Banned
I prefer the new king
It really seems like ya'll hate things just cause they're different, not cause they're worse.
It's ok if you like it but don't expect others to do the same.
The ones who don't care for it feels it was a unneeded change when they could have focused on areas that actually needed it.
Well they've not told us their reasoning yet have they.
unity of the void
Member
Much like other things that have changed, I'm sure the decision or reason to change it was made far earlier than the reveal. Making characters takes a lot of time - especially then rigging and animating them. I wouldn't be surprised if Regis had already been approved/redesigned by Jump Festa but they chose to use the old Regis footage anyway since the story element was the same.
Also I don't think SE is beholden to tell people the whys of everything they're doing, like it or not.
Also I don't think SE is beholden to tell people the whys of everything they're doing, like it or not.
Similar threads
- Locked