Final Fantasy XV SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Haha brilliant!
So I just finished the game, is that really the ending?! Did I miss something by skipping the credits? He had a little cry around th campfire and then it just shows the sun comes up so he obviously died as was supposed to happen.
I mean I kind of presumed there would be a happy ending. Also the load back to just before the end and then call umbra seems really clunky, but those outfits are cool as hell
Zomba13
Member
nelsonroyale
Member
Review
Okay, so I finished the game and I took some time to gather some of thoughts together into a review.
Just to preface, over the years Final Fantasy has been my favourite franchise and this has probably been my most anticipated game since FFXIII was released. So it is a game that I have been hyped for, for a long ass time.
Well, straight off the bat I feel the game ended up as a skeleton of what could have been something very special. The games main failings lie in its lack of consistency, content where it matters, and coherence throughout. I will start off with what I feel are the pros, and then move on to the weaknesses. Spoilers are marked, and pretty spoilerific. This is long and rambling, and probably doesnt say much new, but I wanted to air my thoughs.
Pros
Visuals
So after much drama pre-release, I think it is safe to say that FFXV turned out pretty stellar visually, particularly on PS4 Pro. What impressed me most about this game was the sense of scale. I dont think I have ever played an RPG/character action game which conveys landscape scale as good as this. The lighting system is also great, and looked particularly good when the sun comes out after rain. Main character models and enemy models are also impressive, while NPCs are less so. Modelling is generally excellent, but there is some inconsistency in the texturing, which mostly sticks out in the Leid and Altissia. Lastly, effects work is well done, particularly in Summons.
Soundtrack
The soundtrack lived up to expectations in my opinion. In fact, it may have been the only aspect, aside from the visuals that delivered on its initial promise. I think the combination of epic and melodrama is so discernibly final fantasy. Apocolypsis Dovarkin, I mean Noctis captures this perfectly. Of course, Somnus is just as memorable as its initial reveal. Overall, my favourite OST this gen.
Melee Combat
The combat is frenetic and not always as strategic as I would have liked. But I do like the mobility of the combat, even though the camerawork cant keep up. Switching between weapons is really cool, as is phasing. It makes you feel badass and looks badass. However, I feel that Noctis doesnt really have many special moves in the tradition of the games, even though he has far more slashes than previous games. Armigear is cool, but I would like to have seen limit break attacks. I did enjoy the Melee fights with Arenea, Ravus and Ifrit the most.
Open World Design
I found that the open world segment was, in a microcosm, fairly convincingly laid out and connected. I am praising its structure and layout, rather than its content. Crudely, it felt less gamey than something like Vellan in Witcher 3, although also perhaps less crafted. I loved the fact that you could see the meteor for miles. I think it is a good start, but I would like to say more content and variety really. The game should have had two big open worlds, the second being centred around Altissia.
Main Characters
While the crew werent particularly interesting in isolation, they worked well as a group and I enjoyed their interactions. My feelings are pretty in line with the general consensus, so I wont elaborate much here. I also think the banter that occurs along the way was well implemented. Unfortunately, the game seems to flesh out most of its content there, and cutscenes are sparse and rather poorly directed compared to previous entries.
The Ending
Summons
Summons look suitably flashy. In terms of the visuals and their cut scenes, it very much hits the mark. The implementation is interesting, but has issues that I will discuss in the cons.
Enemy Design
Another highlight, few complaints here. It is generally impeccable. What is lacking is more super bosses that are intimidating.
Promptos Photos
Great feature and entertaining.
Weaknesses
Location Variety
Cities
The Plot
How the Plot is Told
Treatment of Female Characters
Cutscenes
It felt like there was far fewer cutscenes in this game as compared to previous entries, and that some of the cutscenes were surprisingly poorly directed. As has been brought up by others, the quality and directing of the cutscenes makes me think of Tabatas roots in mobile gaming
Melee Combat
It is fast and frenetic but in reality often boils down to hacking and slashing. I feel wait more should have been better integrated into the game and you could slow down combat in real time to give some space to act more strategically. More variation in enemy armour would have been welcome.
Magic
Summons
Side-quests
Bare-bones and repetitive. I enjoy the hunts well enough, but there is no lore or story behind them. Everything else is effectively the same, bare bones tasks which have very little meaningful content. I wish they would take a look at what the Witcher 3 has done and take inspiration.
Armour or Lack There Of
The game has no armour mechanic and I find that disappointing. I would have liked to have customised their appearances much more. The casual wear just looked silly. I do like the Royal garments, but it doesnt make up for the lack of variety.
Talcott and Jared
Who?
Conclusion
This is a flawed game, which I think has real strong elements visuals, OST, main cast, etc. However, it remains painfully unfinished. It is like they completed have the content, tied the loose plot threads together, polished it up, and released the game. I enjoyed it but I am very glad we can move on. I would like FFXVI to be open world structure which more content than there is here but they must learn some lessons from what CD Project did with Witcher 3. A good story, well told needs to be the number one priority for the next FF. There is no shortage of people who can write a better story than was delivered here.
I am looking forward to the episodic DLC. Hopefully they include new locations.
Okay, so I finished the game and I took some time to gather some of thoughts together into a review.
Just to preface, over the years Final Fantasy has been my favourite franchise and this has probably been my most anticipated game since FFXIII was released. So it is a game that I have been hyped for, for a long ass time.
Well, straight off the bat I feel the game ended up as a skeleton of what could have been something very special. The games main failings lie in its lack of consistency, content where it matters, and coherence throughout. I will start off with what I feel are the pros, and then move on to the weaknesses. Spoilers are marked, and pretty spoilerific. This is long and rambling, and probably doesnt say much new, but I wanted to air my thoughs.
Pros
Visuals
So after much drama pre-release, I think it is safe to say that FFXV turned out pretty stellar visually, particularly on PS4 Pro. What impressed me most about this game was the sense of scale. I dont think I have ever played an RPG/character action game which conveys landscape scale as good as this. The lighting system is also great, and looked particularly good when the sun comes out after rain. Main character models and enemy models are also impressive, while NPCs are less so. Modelling is generally excellent, but there is some inconsistency in the texturing, which mostly sticks out in the Leid and Altissia. Lastly, effects work is well done, particularly in Summons.
Soundtrack
The soundtrack lived up to expectations in my opinion. In fact, it may have been the only aspect, aside from the visuals that delivered on its initial promise. I think the combination of epic and melodrama is so discernibly final fantasy. Apocolypsis Dovarkin, I mean Noctis captures this perfectly. Of course, Somnus is just as memorable as its initial reveal. Overall, my favourite OST this gen.
Melee Combat
The combat is frenetic and not always as strategic as I would have liked. But I do like the mobility of the combat, even though the camerawork cant keep up. Switching between weapons is really cool, as is phasing. It makes you feel badass and looks badass. However, I feel that Noctis doesnt really have many special moves in the tradition of the games, even though he has far more slashes than previous games. Armigear is cool, but I would like to have seen limit break attacks. I did enjoy the Melee fights with Arenea, Ravus and Ifrit the most.
Open World Design
I found that the open world segment was, in a microcosm, fairly convincingly laid out and connected. I am praising its structure and layout, rather than its content. Crudely, it felt less gamey than something like Vellan in Witcher 3, although also perhaps less crafted. I loved the fact that you could see the meteor for miles. I think it is a good start, but I would like to say more content and variety really. The game should have had two big open worlds, the second being centred around Altissia.
Main Characters
While the crew werent particularly interesting in isolation, they worked well as a group and I enjoyed their interactions. My feelings are pretty in line with the general consensus, so I wont elaborate much here. I also think the banter that occurs along the way was well implemented. Unfortunately, the game seems to flesh out most of its content there, and cutscenes are sparse and rather poorly directed compared to previous entries.
The Ending
The ending did pack an emotional punch, although less so because of the incoherence of what had come before. What is strange is that the ending feels pretty complete, which seems at odds with rest of the game. I think it makes sense in the context of the overall plot, I just wish there was a lot better build up
It isnt my favourite that would go to FFVIII.
Summons
Summons look suitably flashy. In terms of the visuals and their cut scenes, it very much hits the mark. The implementation is interesting, but has issues that I will discuss in the cons.
Enemy Design
Another highlight, few complaints here. It is generally impeccable. What is lacking is more super bosses that are intimidating.
Ultima weapon for instance is pathetic next Diamond Weapon in Kingsglaive.
Great feature and entertaining.
Weaknesses
Location Variety
I like the locations that are there, there just isnt enough fantasy or scifi in the game, and it comes up short when sat next to previous entries. It is ridiculous that you dont get to explore Tenebrae, and Altissia is cordoned off
The World of Ruins should also have been available to explore. I think the game should have consisted of the initial open world segment; an open world area centred around Altissia finishing in Gralia; and the world of ruins. These three equally large open world sections would have done more justice to the scope of the plot that is hinted at.
Cities
There should have been far more content in both cities. They look amazing but have embarrassingly little content. What were you thinking Tabata? Are HD towns still that hard? When you can actually implement, content was a step too far?
The Plot
It is not coherent. The premise is at strong odds with the easy going road trip jaunt that forms the bulk of the game. The transition into the darker final segments are bizarre and feel very out of place. Ultimately the game has a good basic premise and with care, could have been an excellent story, but in the end there is just very little content there to justice to the scope that the basic premise of the story requires. There is very little attention given to any of the characters aside from the main cast. Luna and Ravus being major botch jobs in terms of exposition and missing events that build character. In sum it feels barebones, unpolished and unfinished. It is a missed opportunity. I actually feel that the plot of Witcher 3: Blood and Wine is actually bigger in terms of high quality cutscenes than FFXV. Despite the fact that the FFXV plot seems to be of much greater scope, it doesnt reflect in the content.
How the Plot is Told
There is a serious lack of exposition in this game. So many major events take place offscreen and it is very difficult to understand why this is the case. I dont think I have ever played a game that does it quite this way, and I was continuously scratching my head wondering who thought this was a good idea. It lessens the impact of dramatic events, shrinks the content significantly and leaves the narrative full of holes. Fail.
Treatment of Female Characters
In the end, I dont think the whole spiel about a male road trip really justified itself. It could have started out that way, but they should have expanded the cast to include female members. Aside from adding a serious magic user from the cast, it could have broadened the character interactions. I also think Tabata has got a lot of explaining to do in regards to Luna. Her role as a simple plot devise and the angelic damsel in distress is pretty disappointing, particularly since there have been some pretty strong female characters in the series previously. Cindy being the only other major female character is
embarrassing. Arenea is introduced but has very little part to play in the actual plot. Poor treatment of female characters, no excuses.
Cutscenes
It felt like there was far fewer cutscenes in this game as compared to previous entries, and that some of the cutscenes were surprisingly poorly directed. As has been brought up by others, the quality and directing of the cutscenes makes me think of Tabatas roots in mobile gaming
Melee Combat
It is fast and frenetic but in reality often boils down to hacking and slashing. I feel wait more should have been better integrated into the game and you could slow down combat in real time to give some space to act more strategically. More variation in enemy armour would have been welcome.
Magic
I like the environmental effects, but otherwise the most disappointing magic in the series. Where was Holy? Ultima? Magic is neither has visually spectacular, as varied, or as well integrated as previous games. The grenade casting looks a bit crap as well. It is useful, just not as badass.
Summons
There are too few. Just having the basic summons was again disappointing, even if they looked very cool. I think there should be a way of calling them as you please when you master the game. Summons are a central part of FF, and while I think the implementation that they turn up under specific conditions is a cool idea, game-wise it kind of sucks.
Side-quests
Bare-bones and repetitive. I enjoy the hunts well enough, but there is no lore or story behind them. Everything else is effectively the same, bare bones tasks which have very little meaningful content. I wish they would take a look at what the Witcher 3 has done and take inspiration.
Armour or Lack There Of
The game has no armour mechanic and I find that disappointing. I would have liked to have customised their appearances much more. The casual wear just looked silly. I do like the Royal garments, but it doesnt make up for the lack of variety.
Talcott and Jared
Who?
Conclusion
This is a flawed game, which I think has real strong elements visuals, OST, main cast, etc. However, it remains painfully unfinished. It is like they completed have the content, tied the loose plot threads together, polished it up, and released the game. I enjoyed it but I am very glad we can move on. I would like FFXVI to be open world structure which more content than there is here but they must learn some lessons from what CD Project did with Witcher 3. A good story, well told needs to be the number one priority for the next FF. There is no shortage of people who can write a better story than was delivered here.
I am looking forward to the episodic DLC. Hopefully they include new locations.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I finished the game last night. Good ending. That camp scene. They really got realistic crying down in this game.
Was going to look up this thread to see what people thought about the ending and how they interpret it and then watch some youtube videos on it. The top video for explaining stuff tries to say Ardyn was the first king which is an asspull from the youtuber.
Edit:
I just posted this in "The most sympathetic villains thread"
Was going to look up this thread to see what people thought about the ending and how they interpret it and then watch some youtube videos on it. The top video for explaining stuff tries to say Ardyn was the first king which is an asspull from the youtuber.
Edit:
I just posted this in "The most sympathetic villains thread"
Cornbread78
Member
So, like, were Luna & Noct alive there at the end or in the world of kings?
StoppedInTracks
Member
Is the last king that deals the killing blow to Noctis on the throne - his father?
after life.
Cornbread78
Member
TY.
That's what it seemed like, but ot was weird when they were reading the letter from Noct's dad, then showed that scene.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Thought so.
Another question:
- why was Noctis "locked up" in the Stone Prison for 10 years? I don't get it. Was he inside the Crystal for 10 years? Why couldn't he leave the island before 10 years passed? Was he in some kind of coma?
SoulUnison
Banned
It took the Ring of the Lucii 10 years to absorb the full power of the Lucian Crystal, which was apparently needed to truly destroy Ardyn and fully purge the Starscourge.
Noct's sacrifice actually leaves the world without any crystals, apparently, and the Power of Kings also ended with him.
Also, yeah, he was unconscious if not completely non-corporeal for the 10 years he spent charging the Ring.
I assume the island he wakes up on is somewhere he was moved by the bros or someone tasked to look after the royal family to keep him safe.
I mean, it's called "Angelgard (Angel Guard) Island." It was probably a known place, at least to the Lucian Royals, with some sort of lore surrounding it...that we just didn't get filled in on.
EDIT: In retrospect, I'm surprised they didn't make the ring take 15 years just to cram the arc number in one more place.
Yeah he was in the crystal for ten years. I suppose his body might have been on the island in a coma while his spirit or something was in the crystal, but he was absorbing the crystals light all that time.
StoppedInTracks
Member
So who is now the King of Lucis? The Royal line is dead. One of Kingsglaives (if they are still around?) or... nobody and elections gonna happen?
We really need some official postgame plot for FF15, stat.
cj_iwakura
Member
Power is now determined by the masses. They take turns ruling the country via an anarcho-syndicalist commune.
Is that really going to be a thing? God I hope so.
RecRoulette
Member
I just remember seeing it mentioned that Cor, Aranea, and Iris would be playable in DLC at some point. If that means at the same time....World of Ruin would be a good place to do that.
There's also that stuff about multiplayer and creating characters. FFXV's post launch support sounds crazy
cj_iwakura
Member
It needs to be. If they can really fill in the gaping hopes in the plot, they could elevate it to a masterpiece.
I dont know guys, i cant bring myself to play again after finishing to get my last 10 trophies for Plat.
That ending was insane. it goes from the throne room being dark and unkept to bright, decorated and Luna+noct together as they should have been, in the afterlife.
Im thirty fucking four years old and i had to hold back the tears in front of my wife.
That ending was insane. it goes from the throne room being dark and unkept to bright, decorated and Luna+noct together as they should have been, in the afterlife.
Im thirty fucking four years old and i had to hold back the tears in front of my wife.
I don't get all the emotional reactions to the ending. Like, I cried like a baby at the end of Titanic, but that was because Rose and Jack's relationship actually got built up and developed and you actually like... cared about it? Luna and Noctis' relationship consists of two childhood conversations, messages via courier-dog (still stupid) and like three seconds of ~meaningful eye contact during Luna's speech. Then she dies. Wow, much emotions. Maybe I just have a heart of stone.
The luna scene isnt the one people cried about.
Edit... or at least not most people I would say.
Who says it's the Noct & Luna scene folks find touching?^^
Really? I see a lot of people gushing about that scene and how it's so emotional bc true love or something. The campfire scene was lovely but the Titanic wedding just made me roll my eyes.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Type-0 spoilers
Just thinking about where this game ends and it's connection, originally, to Type-0 (all being part of the same "thread" I'm going to call it), I kind of feel like the ending is really similar in a lot of ways where the "big bad" can only be ended by sacrifice. Is that the running theme of Fabula Nova Crystallis? I didn't finish XIII or play Agito, but based on Type-0 and this, I kind of feel like the overall themes of companionship and sacrifice are the real over arching plot points. I don't know, just popped into my head there, probably doesn't even make sense. I'm just thinking it seems like it's maybe held over from whatever Verses was supposed to be.
Hm, I always felt like people were mostly talking about the campfire scene. Found that touching, too. I didn't feel anything during the Luna scene and could've easily done with out it. Would've made Noct's sacrifice feel more definite and weightier if there wasn't a "happily ever after".
Haunted
Member
Dead as a bunch of doornails.
Dude, we've had people who said they cried during the MGS4 microwave scene. It doesn't take much for some people.
What's laughably melodramatic and sappy for us is tugging the strings for others, different strokes and all that.
Haunted
Member
I mean with insomnia in ruins and the population wiped out/fled, there's not much left to rule over? If it were a realistic political situation, I'd expect local warlords (former military, usually) to rise up and use the vacuum of power to create some vaguely defined and independently controlled regions throughout the land (particularly locations based around natural resources and strongholds).
Ganon Dragmire
Member
Why not both?
Nocto and Luna will love each other for eternity in the afterlife cementing themselves as the best FF couple.
Back-In-Black
Banned
I think the final twist should have been Noctis killing the Gods instead of Ardyn. The Gods are fucking assholes and caused this whole mess by denying Ardyn ascension for doing the job they fucking gave him. I believe it would have been better if he went all Kratos at the end and use the Power of the Ring and the Crystal to somehow get rid of all the Gods, liberating mankind of their meddling and banishing the darkness.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
I think Ardyn housing a multitude of demons within him was a valid reason to keep him from ruling (maybe it would've ended up bad, but in a different way), but yeah, the gods were assholes. One, they were responsible for the Starscourge (Ifrit), and two, between the lot of them, with their great, mystical powers, they couldn't come up with a means to destroy what only one of them created. That, and remember Leviathan's threats at Altissia. If you would've lost, she would've gone pure genocide on mankind, traveling the planet and gulping down city after city. What a bitch!
gigantor21
Member
Back-In-Black
Banned
So most of their time together will be off screen, just like in the game!
Ayyyyyyyy.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Well technically they never met during their childhood years except for a few moments since it's an arranged marriage and stuff.
So yeah, their love is non-existent and purely based on looking at pictures.
So yeah, their love is non-existent and purely based on looking at pictures.
I thought the throne scene with Luna was really nice as an afterlife sequence. It made me happy, whereas the last campfire scene made me really sad. All things considered, I find the end outcome of this game quite dark so the throne scene serves as a pick-me-up. Emotionally it's very light compared to the campfire scene. But you know, a simple cue like the main Final Fantasy theme playing during that scene really is enough to bring out the emotions in some people, myself included.
It always felt to me like Noctis and Luna harboured a deep love and respect for each other, although not necessarily a romantic one. I found this a refreshing take on love for the series, especially since the standard man+woman relationship is sidelined for the brotherhood and platonic bonds between the four guys. However, I did bring a lot of my own experiences to this game and my imagination filled in the gaps. It resonated for personal reasons.
It always felt to me like Noctis and Luna harboured a deep love and respect for each other, although not necessarily a romantic one. I found this a refreshing take on love for the series, especially since the standard man+woman relationship is sidelined for the brotherhood and platonic bonds between the four guys. However, I did bring a lot of my own experiences to this game and my imagination filled in the gaps. It resonated for personal reasons.
Digital-Hero
Member
I thought the visuals were quite inconsistent, especially the indoor areas like the bases and Chapter 13 indoor areas. Outdoors areas were much more visually interesting.
Ganon Dragmire
Member
This is very interesting. I never considered him as an unreliable narrator but now that you put it this way i buy it. Makes sense. Thanks for that! Really like this theory.
As for Noctis being stuck in the crystal. I got the sense that it was not just to gather his power but also to come to terms and be 100% on board with his sacrifice. Like he would be in a meditative state until he was really ready. It took Noct 10 years for that.
I kind of remember Bahumut saying something like that. And also adds to what Noct says in the final camp scene. About coming to terms with what he must do but seeing his crew making it almost unbearable or whatever the exact phrase was.
I really loved this game. Not only did I find the gameplay fun but the journey and the ending was fantastic. Sure it has some flaws both in story and game mechanics but ultimately i still liked it. I'm actually still playing it and will try to 100% it which is something i rarely do with games.
Also i didn't mind chapter 13 but that may be cuz i played it in parts versus all in one sitting. Even the stealth part wasn't too bad. Really liked the summon battles.
The Main Theme of Final Fantasy could make any man sob like a child.
they're both pretty hot so I can see how they were into each purely on pictures.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Dreamwriter
Member
I thought Noctis spent months with her during their childhood, as he recovered from some illness.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
He did or at the very least spent some time there.
DirgeExtinction
Member
I remember reading a rumor about how the Naga that kidnapped Prompto in that one cave was actually his mother turned into a daemon.
GringoSuave89
Banned
It's just too long. The pacing is pretty bad in the latter half of the game, but Chapter 13 is by far the worst.
Yeah he spent a couple months in Tenebrae recovering from his near death experience.
Also i think it can be implied that they were sending messages to each other via Umbra throughout the years.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
lol wut.
There's out of the box thinking: The meteor brought the Starscourge with it. Ifrit then facilitated in spreading it (we know the latter happened).
Then there is crazy fantheories like Prompto's mother is the naga. It's more likely Verstael Besithia grew Prompto in a tube using his own genetic material.
We know Verstael is his father, biologically or because he was created by him (who knows), and was "born" in the same lab as the MT Knights and Daemons.
toddhunter
Member
The talk about the romance, or lack thereof summarises the main problem I have with the game:
"Oops we forgot to make people care, quick put in something and hope it looks like we thought it through."
Three examples:
Noctis, who hasn't seen his great love for ages sees her spout some random rubbish and for some reason has a tear roll down his cheek.
After seeing that same love die, his friend maimed and battling a giant fuck off god on a city sized scale, Glado gets into him about having to step it up and to start "taking things seriously".
Noctis seems to agonise about putting on the ring for absolutely no good reason before finally putting it on, again for no good reason to gain very minor powers considering he can already summon gods.
I can appreciate these attempts to add emotion but it is almost FF13 level failed attempts at making the player feel something beyond the band of brothers theme. It all feels completely flat which is a shame when compared to the glory days of FF6 that did it all with some pixels and music.
A lot of effort was put into this game. It is mind blowing how poor this aspect was.
"Oops we forgot to make people care, quick put in something and hope it looks like we thought it through."
Three examples:
Noctis, who hasn't seen his great love for ages sees her spout some random rubbish and for some reason has a tear roll down his cheek.
After seeing that same love die, his friend maimed and battling a giant fuck off god on a city sized scale, Glado gets into him about having to step it up and to start "taking things seriously".
Noctis seems to agonise about putting on the ring for absolutely no good reason before finally putting it on, again for no good reason to gain very minor powers considering he can already summon gods.
I can appreciate these attempts to add emotion but it is almost FF13 level failed attempts at making the player feel something beyond the band of brothers theme. It all feels completely flat which is a shame when compared to the glory days of FF6 that did it all with some pixels and music.
A lot of effort was put into this game. It is mind blowing how poor this aspect was.
They did need to show a bit more why Noctis cares for Luna.
It's why i believe that they were definitely keeping in contact via umbra at least. Like pen pals since they couldn't see each other in person. Maybe vía those letters there was some sort of strong connection they built besides their brief meeting as children and their entertwined destinies.
In regard to your first point, maybehe cried because he was touched by her speech. At least that's what i got out of that.
Point 3: Kingsglaive kinda shows a bit more about why putting on the ring is a huge deal. It's almost creepy. There's a bunch of voices and a weird ambience. I think that's why Noct was so reluctant. They just don't show it much compared to Kingsglaive where we see a bit more of what happens when someone wears the ring.
Though you do get a sense of its otherworldly feel when u use the death spell. Still they don't spell out what the big deal is compared to Kingsglaive