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Descent Into Madness
Member
After how shitty TLJ was coming from the bland garbage of TFA I have no interest in this.
I just want it to make less than TLJ for the meltdowns it will cause in the TLJ fanatics.
I just want it to make less than TLJ for the meltdowns it will cause in the TLJ fanatics.
kunonabi
Member
They'll just spin it that people dont want to see a SW film without Johnson directing. You should see the mental gymnastics going on in the ERA thread on the new friendship featurette for TROS.
Descent Into Madness
Member
Most have planted their flag in the "second star wars film in a trilogy always makes the least" defense.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
they have now admitted to purposefully trying to do the opposite of what the audience wants. why should they be rewarded with this? for purposefully pissing people off? we don't get ANY new planets for Luke, he just sits on the same island he was on in the first movie for 2 1/2 hours and dies on a rock. i will not see ROS in the theater because i don't care about any of this anymore. congrats at pissing me off, you did what you set out to do. wave bye bye to my money. bye bye now!
i am just here to watch JJ squirm. it will succeed, and the same sycophants who like the last two movies will like this and say it got all this critical acclaim and made all this money, etc. im here to watch KK somehow succeed at still making billions of dollars from clueless addicts by having JJ fucking Abrams and the Batman V Superman guy write the ending to the Skywalker series. like LOL this is hilarious, just the funniest slow motion clown waiter falling down the stairs video you ever saw. it is like watching a drunken seal attempt to balance a beach ball on his nose.
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GymWolf
Member
Wtf is this shit?
buizel
Banned
This guy has got to be a complete sociopath - being able to manipulate his own emotions on a whim
I cant fathom, but congrats for suckin your way up to being a paid shill ;]
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GymWolf
Member
finally watched the trailer...yep this is indeed the turd chapter of this trilogy...
mcz117chief
Member
He is just acting for clicks, like all the other youtubers. I never take any of these reactors seriously.
sol_bad
Member
I have no idea if anyone has ever shared this video but YouTube just suggested it. Really good video IKMO. Especially the part where he discusses Luke at about the 10 minute mark. He brings across a good point about one of the most hated things of the film, what were the haters expecting of Luke based on the information presented to us in episode 7?
It’s hot garbage that ruined the franchise and the final opportunity to use the classic characters, regardless of what some YouTube video says.
InterMusketeer
Member
Is it a good point though? The guy even says "People who don't like this don't have a problem with the movie, but with the decision to depict Luke like this." Yes that's exactly the problem people have. It's an awful decision, and an awful concept for this character. It doesn't matter if it was set up in TFA, because that was a bad and boring movie in and of itself. Besides, TLJ still depicts that ruined version of Luke's character. That means there is bad content in the movie. It's only fair to criticize bad content in movies.
sol_bad
Member
So based on what happened in TFA, what would have been better? Why else would he travel to an island to be alone and hide from everyone?
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InterMusketeer
Member
Again, what happened in TFA isn't an excuse. What they should've done from the start is write a story that actually makes sense. The foundation of this entire trilogy is shoddy, so it's no wonder the entire house is caving in spectacularly.
But even if we place ourselves in the shoes of Johnson, there's other choices he could have made. Perhaps Luke has hidden himself to lure the First Order into a trap or something. Perhaps he was looking for something or someone. I disagree with the video's take that this is the only possible way it could have gone.
sol_bad
Member
IMO, leading the First Order in to a trap would have been boring. Luke saving the universe, boring and expected. Luke creating a successful Jedi Academy and the Solo's having children that live happily ever after, boring. I heard about that in the Legends novels/comics and since I have heard about it, I would have been disappointed if they just outright followed those stories.
Luke properly training Rey at the newly formed Jedi Academy would dilute what I think the new trilogy is trying to set up and what has always honestly been set up. Anakin, Luke and now Rey have all been able to tap in to the force and use it's powers. Luke and Rey with zero training. Anyone can use the force, blood relation does not matter. The force also chooses it's own "hosts' when required.
After all, the Jedi Temple in the prequel trilogy is home to thousands of kids who they are training and indoctrinating into their "cult". Saying that only special people with certain blood relations should only be able to use the force flies in the face of what the Jedi Temple is. Luke also isn't the only one that thinks the Jedi Order should die, Ahsoka also turned her back on and walked away from the Jedi Order at the end of the Clone Wars cartoon. I hope to god that the new season doesn't reverse this decision, the show has a great opportunity to explore this whole concept.
I think the prequel trilogy also dilutes the idea that Anakin was born and created by the force. He should be all powerful but having him train at the Jedi Academy and being on the same level or worse than Obi-Wan kind of normalises him to the point that it's pointless that the force created him.
So getting back to TFA, it has already "defied expectations" by having Luke missing and hiding and set up a very solid foundation for something unique and different to what was in the Legends books. Luke not responding to the deaths of Han Solo or the billions that died from the Starkiller base should have been a clear indication that he didn't want anything to do with what was happening. If he cared about what was happening, he would be able to connect with Leia and talk to her.
What I'm typing might be jumbled up, just writing things off the top of my head without looking for proper references from the movies.
EviLore
it's OK if you don't want to entertain or listen to a differing opinion. I don't think having the original 3 on screen together would accomplish anything apart from satisfying a nostalgic itch. It's not a Marvel team up movie or anything of the like. I personally wouldn't have cared if the original 3 weren't even in the films.
Shantae
Banned
Quite a feat after TLJ.
People can say I'm an old man baby for my reaction to that movie, but I recently talked to my 15 year old nephew, who grew up on Star Wars, and was a fan since he was born pretty much. Was the kind of kid who liked prequels, OT, all that stuff....and he also hated TLJ. Takes a real piece of shit to kill your fanbase like that turd did.
Yeah, their was no other choice but to make Luke a attempted murderer.
Stop trying to defend that shit movie.
IMO, leading the First Order in to a trap would have been boring. Luke saving the universe, boring and expected. Luke creating a successful Jedi Academy and the Solo's having children that live happily ever after, boring. I heard about that in the Legends novels/comics and since I have heard about it, I would have been disappointed if they just outright followed those stories.
Luke properly training Rey at the newly formed Jedi Academy would dilute what I think the new trilogy is trying to set up and what has always honestly been set up. Anakin, Luke and now Rey have all been able to tap in to the force and use it's powers. Luke and Rey with zero training. Anyone can use the force, blood relation does not matter. The force also chooses it's own "hosts' when required.
After all, the Jedi Temple in the prequel trilogy is home to thousands of kids who they are training and indoctrinating into their "cult". Saying that only special people with certain blood relations should only be able to use the force flies in the face of what the Jedi Temple is. Luke also isn't the only one that thinks the Jedi Order should die, Ahsoka also turned her back on and walked away from the Jedi Order at the end of the Clone Wars cartoon. I hope to god that the new season doesn't reverse this decision, the show has a great opportunity to explore this whole concept.
I think the prequel trilogy also dilutes the idea that Anakin was born and created by the force. He should be all powerful but having him train at the Jedi Academy and being on the same level or worse than Obi-Wan kind of normalises him to the point that it's pointless that the force created him.
So getting back to TFA, it has already "defied expectations" by having Luke missing and hiding and set up a very solid foundation for something unique and different to what was in the Legends books. Luke not responding to the deaths of Han Solo or the billions that died from the Starkiller base should have been a clear indication that he didn't want anything to do with what was happening. If he cared about what was happening, he would be able to connect with Leia and talk to her.
What I'm typing might be jumbled up, just writing things off the top of my head without looking for proper references from the movies.
So you just decided certain ideas were boring because Disney told you so?
This is why you are a sycophant
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EverythingsOverrated
Member
Can we talk about the crying guy some more? That shit is hilarious
SidViscous
Member
Man I just can't take that riding on space horses bit seriously.
It looks like what the AI opponents try against me when I play civilization 5 on super easy mode and I'm already in the nuclear age.
The last film rewrote cannon so you can warp kamikaze a tiny ship into a Dreadnaught, did they ever figure out a way to write themselves out of that bullshit, or does it still invalidate every single other battle in starwars?
It looks like what the AI opponents try against me when I play civilization 5 on super easy mode and I'm already in the nuclear age.
The last film rewrote cannon so you can warp kamikaze a tiny ship into a Dreadnaught, did they ever figure out a way to write themselves out of that bullshit, or does it still invalidate every single other battle in starwars?
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buizel
Banned
Remember Droids can now solely pilot X-Wings, and could always (thanks to cartoons). So pointless suicide. Build emotion-less bomber droids
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GymWolf
Member
Or we can forget that pathetic human being and go on with our lives...
InterMusketeer
Member
You are aware that I could just call you a "hater" now, right? You're just hating on my ideas!
I don't agree that this has always been set up. Why did Obi-Wan decide to train Luke? He could've just found someone else who's sensitive to the Force on Tatooine (I'm sure there's some around) and train them to defeat Darth Vader. He didn't though. Why? Could it have something to do with the Skywalker bloodline? That's the explanation of the Force we've gotten for like 40 years. It's never been set up to be any different, and TLJ just takes the concept and changes it fundamentally, without any in-universe explanation, because Johnson wanted to subvert expectations and hated the concept of the Force as we knew it.
Again, disagree. Luke was able to pull off some things before he received his training, but ultimately he failed multiple times and was beaten multiple times. Luke's journey to become a Jedi isn't the most believable in the world, but it's lightyears ahead of Rey's, in which there's no resistance or failure, just girl power.
They literally go around looking into kids' midechlorianojfo3hf3l levels to figure out if they could become Jedi. IMO your version of the Force flies into the face of what's been shown and established in the movies.
That's because the prequels were also bad films! Not as bad as the new ones though.
Now you're just citing the video again. I personally don't care about what happened in the books or comicsor whatever. I just want to see a good story with interesting characters that honors what came before. The Disney movies don't do that.
lifa-cobex
Member
It hurts to watch.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Damn, forget all that drama and complicated deep lore shit, and just give me a fun movie with those few characters I have nostalgic feelings for since I watched those three original movies as a kid.
Star Wars doesn't need to be Shakespeare.
It's pulp. Just give me some larger than life heroes, some asshole villains, and a fun adventure romp all along the way.
That's what the Mandalorian gets incredibly right, and that's why people love it, and hate this disney shit (and personally, I abhore the Prequels as well. Fuck those movies).
All they needed to do was to introduce some cool new characters and have their old ones meet up again and beat the shit out of some evil motherfuckers and in the end ride off to the sunset.
How difficult is that?
Star Wars doesn't need to be Shakespeare.
It's pulp. Just give me some larger than life heroes, some asshole villains, and a fun adventure romp all along the way.
That's what the Mandalorian gets incredibly right, and that's why people love it, and hate this disney shit (and personally, I abhore the Prequels as well. Fuck those movies).
All they needed to do was to introduce some cool new characters and have their old ones meet up again and beat the shit out of some evil motherfuckers and in the end ride off to the sunset.
How difficult is that?
buizel
Banned
See you bring up all valid points, but I also think the Mandalorian is a run-of-the-mill boring show with no interesting characters.
So I don't think theres a way to please everyone. Then again I like films like Mulholland Drive so doubt were getting some artsy lesbian SW film.
ExpandKong
Banned
Bro I've got bad news for you: TFA was also garbage.
You can't excuse TLJ's shittiness by saying "Well what were they supposed to do with the pile of shit they were left to work with?"
It's all just shit my dude. Top to bottom. Shit begets shit.
sol_bad
Member
Let's keep in mind that miticlorian (however you spell that shit) count and blood relation are 2 totally different things. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn weren't on Tatooine looking for Padawans, they just happened upon Anakin and his mother. And they had no idea Anakin was force sensitive until they got out that do-hicky machine that analysed his miticlorian count which was high. The higher the count, the more force sensitive you are. Nothing to do with bloodline, his mother was not force sensitive and it was not a normal birth. Miticlorians don't even live in the blood stream but cells as a whole.
As for blood relation, the Skywalker family is the only family we know of where it runs in the family. The other 10,000 Jedi's we know of, we know nothing of their family history. Yoda, Mace Windu, Plo Koon, Kit Fisto and I think Ashoka Tano, even more Jedi's. We know nothing of any of their famlies, whether their parents, siblings or children can use force powers. Outside that fact, humans in general seem to have a high force sensitivity ratio as they make up the large majority of Jedi that we see on screen.
Any families that may have been mentioned in the extended universe / Legends cannon don't count as Lucas never ever cared for any of that, he just loved the revenue that it brought in.
Going back to Anakin and him being created by the force, there is absolutely nothing in episode 7 or 8 that conflicts with the idea that the force created Rey. We know nothing about her family and we haveno idea if what Kylo Ren said in episode 8 was real or if he was just manipulating her.
Hell, even none sentient creatures can be force sensitive.
sol_bad
Member
They own it, it's their saga now. It's not George's and it's not the fans.
-Arcadia-
Banned
That is why you’re our Consoomer. : )
InterMusketeer
Member
In your own words: That's boring because we've already seen that.
What'd be the point in doing that story over again? And this isn't even about books or EU or whatever. This dumb concept of space Jesus was in the actual movies! Did they want to fuck it up so badly a second time? Because if so they're definitely on schedule.
sol_bad
Member
The story is being presented differently, we knew from the start that Anakin was conceived by the force. This time, we have absolutely no clue about Rey at all, she could be conceived by the force, she could be a clone, who knows. I'm just saying that the force has created people before with no blood relation and that it's one of many possibilities.
People have issues with Rey being a master at flying the Millennium Falcon but even she comments herself in the film that she is surprised at how good she is as she has never flown before.
InterMusketeer
Member
I don't know about anyone else, but I just don't care about Rey. Anakin you kinda had to care about, because Darth Vader y'know. He's just cool. But Rey? What has she done? She's not interesting in the slightest. No matter what backstory they come up with for her, it won't matter to me.
ExpandKong
Banned
After what they’ve done to it, they can have it.
Shizumapower
Member
I have the Art of the Force Awakens book.
This is what the original concept of Rey and Finn were supposed to be.
So many changes. The what could have been...
So much wasted ideas. Luckily we got great new characters though...
This is what the original concept of Rey and Finn were supposed to be.
So many changes. The what could have been...
So much wasted ideas. Luckily we got great new characters though...
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ExpandKong
Banned
Makes more sense than Kylo Ben having it at least.
Shizumapower
Member
I knew I'd get a response from you soon.
For the 'Skywalker Saga' to continue we might have thought there would be more Skywalker in it.... Any of them.
They obviously had a chance to reunite the original trio plus Chewie, R2 and 3PO for one last time. They couldn't even get Han and Luke on screen together. Would have been a great callback... You know because they might have bonded over the years saving each other's lives...or saving the Galaxy together, or marrying his Sister.... Eh, sooo boring.
It's the same feeling when you learn the Ewoks were supposed to be Wookies in ROTJ.
There's a lot of directions they could have gone. The final decisions are odd.
www.slashfilm.com
Kira was the concept Lucas had as the continuation. Might have been interesting to see a young female Jedi falling in love and dealing with the conflicting emotions that come with that.
The janitor escapee story was far more interesting though.
For the 'Skywalker Saga' to continue we might have thought there would be more Skywalker in it.... Any of them.
They obviously had a chance to reunite the original trio plus Chewie, R2 and 3PO for one last time. They couldn't even get Han and Luke on screen together. Would have been a great callback... You know because they might have bonded over the years saving each other's lives...or saving the Galaxy together, or marrying his Sister.... Eh, sooo boring.
It's the same feeling when you learn the Ewoks were supposed to be Wookies in ROTJ.
There's a lot of directions they could have gone. The final decisions are odd.
How 'Force Awakens' Changed During Development: Jedi Killers, Force Ghosts And The Doom Star - SlashFilm
How did Star Wars: The Force Awakens evolve through the development process? Here are nearly 20 Force Awakens changes from script to screen.
www.slashfilm.com
Kira was the concept Lucas had as the continuation. Might have been interesting to see a young female Jedi falling in love and dealing with the conflicting emotions that come with that.
The janitor escapee story was far more interesting though.
sol_bad
Member
I'm not sure if you were replying to me or not.
I assume Kira would have beem Leia's daughter?
RE the image with Luke holding the helmet, does the book say what that is all about/
Shizumapower
Member
This is where Star Wars gets convoluted.
Kira / Rey could be Obi-wans daughter.... or shockingly a whole different family of Jedi's. Or no one's daughter. Who knows? Would be nice to finally get some answers.
Most argue Kylo is the best character out of the new group. Why- because you know his motive.
Were Leia and Han married? Or just living together? Was Ben the only kid? Was Chewie best man or Luke? I must know!
The big issue with the new movies is we know so little, so no emotions are tied to the characters. Maybe we will get something in the new movie. My expectations are low.
Star Wars has a funny effect on people.
Everyone refers to 'The Child's as baby Yoda. Though The Mandolorian story takes place after Yoda's death. Just shows how much Star Wars is identified by its visuals.
The Luke concepts started out as 'Where would Luke end up after ABY' (battle of Yavin), he was ending up like Obi wan. An old Jedi recluse. A Ronin.
Your focus on him clutching the helmet is strange. I lost my Father in my teens and hold precious the few objects he held dear. I love that piece of art.
prag16
Banned
I mean, clearly this would be bad because it's boring. It would be boring, because you say so. Subvert subvert subvert even if you set fire to the entire franchise and 40 years of lore in the process. Otherwise, boring. It'd be boring.
My takeaway after reading some of these lengthy posts is that you really have no idea what makes Star Wars, Star Wars.
Wasn't gonna say this, but if I didn't know better I'd definitely suspect some kind of Disney astroturfing operation.
TLJ is not good. TLJ made TFA (already not very good) retroactively worse. TLJ rendered it almost impossible for TRoS to actually be good. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Shizumapower
Member
Unused Jedi killer.
From the book...
From the book...
sol_bad
Member
I like the questions you pose, it is interesting. Would be interesting if Rey did turn out to be Obi-Wan's daughter somehow, I never even thought of that possibility. Delayed ageing due to force powers!
^_^
And my question regarding Vader's helmet is because at the end of episode 6 he could see his father as a force ghost so theoretically he should be able to communicate him if he needs to. He doesn't need a trinket to remind him of his father, especially of something that signifies evil.
I'm sorry but I really don't think any of the lore has been broken. And when I say lore, that does not include any of the expanded universe stuff because it's simply not part of the cannon and never has been. Prior to Disney acquiring Lucasfilm, the only lore there was is in the 6 films that Lucas made and the Clone Wars series that he made.
A Darth Maul comic by Dark Horse was also kept cannon, although I'm not sure if Lucas himself or Disney decided on that one.
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ExpandKong
Banned
Ahhh the fucking janitor. I love it. I love how they took something that could’ve been an interesting idea for a character and turned him into an entirely too convenient source of classified knowledge/slapstick comic relief. In TFA he knew the best way to sneak into Starkiller Base and how to do whatever the hell they were doing in there. In TLJ he walks around wearing a leaky water balloon and has info about the hyperspace tracking device in Snoke’s ship, because that’s some shit a janitor would know. Maybe in ROS he’ll tell everyone exactly how Palpatine survived before slipping on a fucking banana peel.
What makes you think you know better? Disney is a multi-billion dollar entertainment empire. You don’t think they have some money in the marketing budget to pay some schlubs to hang around message boards and YouTube comments spreading the good word about a product they have a huge financial interest in?
Or are you just talking about
sol_bad
in particular?
sol_bad
Member
What makes you think you know better? Disney is a multi-billion dollar entertainment empire. You don’t think they have some money in the marketing budget to pay some schlubs to hang around message boards and YouTube comments spreading the good word about a product they have a huge financial interest in?
Or are you just talking about
LOL
If Disney offered me a pay packet to interact with people on social media I'd be happy to accept if the pay was good.
Alas, my day job is extremely mundane.
*EDIT*
I highly dout they'd hire an Australian either. We have no Disney land or world or anything down under. They don't care about us.
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ExpandKong
Banned
Yeah no joke I’d take the money too. Baby girl needs ballet classes and I only have so much blood plasma I can sell each week.
Disney if you’re reading this I will sell out hard. I will say that TFA subverted expectations in totally smart ways and that Rose Tico is the best new Star Wars character since Jyn Erso who was the best Star Wars character since Rey. I do not give a shit if anyone on the internet thinks I actually like your crappy movies. Please pay me some of that mouse money. Recital costumes are expensive.
Shizumapower
Member
Soo...early drafts of TFA were very focused on Luke...which became 1 minute of screen time and then killed. Han is gone with Leia rumored next.
Did you know there is absolutely no merch for these 3 mains at Star Wars Galaxy's Edge? I really don't want to believe liscening could have driven these storylines....
Back to the trailer, when Rey an Kylo are shattering the black whatever look in the background...
Did you know there is absolutely no merch for these 3 mains at Star Wars Galaxy's Edge? I really don't want to believe liscening could have driven these storylines....
Back to the trailer, when Rey an Kylo are shattering the black whatever look in the background...
Chewbacca bandolier and bowcaster are on the shelf.