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[Laurentius]

The one new mechanic in this FE that I was the most curious about (and skeptical) was the ability to pair up two units so that they share a tile. According to RPGamer's review, this feature is basically pointless:


That's fine with me really, since the idea didn't seem too promising to begin with. For anyone who has played a significant amount of the game, is this also your experience with the pairing mechanic?

It basically replaced carrying, right? If so, then I could personally see it being very useful (as I used carry quite often).

 

[EvilMario]

The one new mechanic in this FE that I was the most curious about (and skeptical) was the ability to pair up two units so that they share a tile. According to RPGamer's review, this feature is basically pointless:


That's fine with me really, since the idea didn't seem too promising to begin with. For anyone who has played a significant amount of the game, is this also your experience with the pairing mechanic?

No, it can be very useful, depending on the stat bonuses you're giving the lead character and of course, this takes the place of rescuing in old FE games, so you can use it to shuttle weak units across the map. The benefits are not that apparent though when first starting out and probably less useful at lower difficult levels.

More reading on the Dual system and Doubling up.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

The one new mechanic in this FE that I was the most curious about (and skeptical) was the ability to pair up two units so that they share a tile. According to RPGamer's review, this feature is basically pointless:


That's fine with me really, since the idea didn't seem too promising to begin with. For anyone who has played a significant amount of the game, is this also your experience with the pairing mechanic?

I think it really just serves to boost your S-Ranks and set up kills for weak units. For example, pair up Donny & Frederick. Fred brings an enemy down 1 or 2 HP; then switch to Donny to he'll score the kill and gain the EXP.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

It basically replaced carrying, right? If so, then I could personally see it being very useful (as I used carry quite often).

No, it can be very useful, depending on the stat bonuses you're giving the lead character and of course, this takes the place of rescuing in old FE games, so you can use it to shuttle weak units across the map. The benefits are not that apparent though when first starting out and probably less useful at lower difficult levels.

More reading on the Dual system and Doubling up.

I see, thanks for the info. This looks more nuanced than what I expected based on that review, which is nice. I didn't realize pairing up took the place of rescuing either, so even without the extra stat bonuses it will be quite useful at times.

I've been trying to avoid reading or seeing too much about the game before launch but at this point my hype is reaching critical mass, haha.

 

[Chrom]

RPGamer doesn't know jack.

Pair Up allows the player to control who exactly appears together in battle because Pair Up has the highest priority. The secondary unit may receive experience if they actually participate in battle, which they may do so if they perform a Dual Strike. In addition, the Pair Up mechanic functions as a more practical method of rescuing a unit because it guarantees the secondary unit from any kind of harm without hampering the safety of the main unit in any way, and Pair Up works great because it still works as a transportation mechanism to overcome the negative movement disparity of the two units (e.g., have a Pegasus Knight carry a Knight across a mountain range and switch over to the Knight).

To say that Pair Up is a pointless mechanic is very, very wrong.

 

[zroid]

I've only played the prologue of the demo and even that was enough to realize there is utility in pairing units. What a silly claim.

 

[Lumination]

Barring Lunatic where I needed a couple of extra spd or def to survive some phases, I think I prefer rescuing. I like holding a choke with units and sending out a glass cannon type to clear up a big enemy, or just plain sniping down a big enemy, and then rescuing them away with a mounted unit. I don't think there's any way to replicate this in Awakening.

I think it really just serves to boost your S-Ranks and set up kills for weak units. For example, pair up Donny & Frederick. Fred brings an enemy down 1 or 2 HP; then switch to Donny to he'll score the kill and gain the EXP.

Unless I've been using the system wrong this whole time, I don't think this is actually possible.

Edit: I should explain. The only cases where this is possible is if you had a dancer, or if the enemy attacked Frederick and then you finished him off with Donny on your turn. In both of these cases, you would have probably been better off leaving them separate and saving the dancer in case 1 or having Frederick not waste his turn to switch to Donny in case 2.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Barring Lunatic where I needed a couple of extra spd or def to survive some phases, I think I prefer rescuing. I like holding a choke with units and sending out a glass cannon type to clear up a big enemy, or just plain sniping down a big enemy, and then rescuing them away with a mounted unit. I don't think there's any way to replicate this in Awakening.

I was wondering about this when I read that pairing is different from rescuing in that the pairing is activated by the support character as opposed to the lead character. No more taking dangerous swipes at bosses only to be quickly whisked away to safety, I suppose.

 

[Chrom]

Barring Lunatic where I needed a couple of extra spd or def to survive some phases, I think I prefer rescuing. I like holding a choke with units and sending out a glass cannon type to clear up a big enemy, or just plain sniping down a big enemy, and then rescuing them away with a mounted unit. I don't think there's any way to replicate this in Awakening.

Unless I've been using the system wrong this whole time, I don't think this is actually possible.

Yeah, it's not really possible to do a "hit and run" like that in this game even with Pair Up, aside from Galeforce but that's just that.

And yeah, if your units are Paired Up and you attack a unit with either one of those members, you end the turn for both of them. You can't just switch over after an attack.

Saw your edit, and you're exactly right.

 

[Lumination]

Yeah, it's not really possible to do a "hit and run" like that in this game even with Pair Up, aside from Galeforce but that's just that.

And yeah, if your units are Paired Up and you attack a unit with either one of those members, you end the turn for both of them. You can't just switch over after an attack.

So, it seems to me like the only practical uses of pairing up are to have an already weakened unit run to the safety of a friend, crossing terrain, and passing a "stat check", like speed.

The first two shouldn't happen too often, and the last one really depends on what difficulty you play, I imagine. I think Normal players probably won't need it too much.

Nixing rescue is a shame. It's really the only reason why I didn't want to keep playing Shadow Dragon. I could put up with everything else but the lack of rescue. =(

 

[Chrom]

So, it seems to me like the only practical uses of pairing up are to have an already weakened unit run to the safety of a friend, crossing terrain, and passing a "stat check", like speed.

The first two shouldn't happen too often, and the last one really depends on what difficulty you play, I imagine. I think Normal players probably won't need it too much.

Nixing rescue is a shame. It's really the only reason why I didn't want to keep playing Shadow Dragon. I could put up with everything else but the lack of rescue. =(

I wouldn't say that they nixed rescuing, because it's practically still there, and I think the functionality trade-off is very worth it. Rescuing in other games meant that the main unit needed to significantly sacrifice stats to compensate the rescue, and this even included movement. In harder difficulties, you could argue that rescuing might not have that much practicality in the same way as Pairing Up may not seem all that handy in the beginning of the lower difficulties of Awakening. Outside of the fact that you can't just hit someone, get rescued, and run away from harm, I think Pairing Up does everything what rescuing should've done in the first place.

 

[Lumination]

I wouldn't say that they nixed rescuing, because it's practically still there, and I think the functionality trade-off is very worth it. Rescuing in other games meant that the main unit needed to significantly sacrifice stats to compensate the rescue, and this even included movement. In harder difficulties, you could argue that rescuing might not have that much practicality in the same way as Pairing Up may not seem all that handy in the beginning of the lower difficulties of Awakening. Outside of the fact that you can't just hit someone, get rescued, and run away from harm, I think Pairing Up does everything what rescuing should've done in the first place.

This was 99% of the time I rescued, lol. The other 1% was using a Great Knight that would be bulky enough to not care and was probably getting doubled upon anyway.

While I'm here, I asked this question in the other thread, but it might have gotten lost.

If you're a level 15 promoted class, is it a better idea to class change to a prepromote to grab their skills as well, or just save time and seals and just class change to a another promoted class?

Also, does promoting and class changing affect your internal level when it comes to calculating exp? For instance, who would get the most exp from an identical fight, someone who has gained 10 levels, promoted, gained 10 levels, class changed, and gained 5 levels, or someone who gained 20 levels, promoted, and gained 5 levels? (Both total to 25 levels gained from the same starting point.

 

[EvilMario]

For those that have already played the game quite a bit, do the paralogue chapters eventually disappear if you don't play them, or will they stick around?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Great questions Lumination, I'm hoping someone will be able to answer them.

Personally I don't see myself bothering too much with changing a unit from a promoted class to a pre-promoted class or a different promoted class. When it comes to FE I typically enjoy seeing each unit as one specific class (plus one promoted class) as it gives them more character and makes them more memorable to me. When I think of Harken I think of him only as a Hero, and imagining him as something like a Berserker just seems kind of weird. Heck, I don't even mind when the promotion system is completely restricted to only one class.

It is cool that the option is there though, and I'm excited to see what kind of crazy stuff people can come up with through experimentation. It definitely adds to the replay value of the game, as well. I just think I'll plan on keeping things as "pure" as possible for my first run at least.

 

[Busaiku]

The one new mechanic in this FE that I was the most curious about (and skeptical) was the ability to pair up two units so that they share a tile. According to RPGamer's review, this feature is basically pointless:


That's fine with me really, since the idea didn't seem too promising to begin with. For anyone who has played a significant amount of the game, is this also your experience with the pairing mechanic?

It was basically carrying, but it gives you stat boosts instead of lowering them.

 

[Lumination]

Great questions Lumination, I'm hoping someone will be able to answer them.

Personally I don't see myself bothering too much with changing a unit from a promoted class to a pre-promoted class or a different promoted class. When it comes to FE I typically enjoy seeing each unit as one specific class (plus one promoted class) as it gives them more character and makes them more memorable to me. When I think of Harken I think of him only as a Hero, and imagining him as something like a Berserker just seems kind of weird. Heck, I don't even mind when the promotion system is completely restricted to only one class.

It is cool that the option is there though, and I'm excited to see what kind of crazy stuff people can come up with through experimentation. It definitely adds to the replay value of the game, as well. I just think I'll plan on keeping things as "pure" as possible for my first run at least.

Oh definitely. I plan to class change sparingly. Outside of super endgame min-maxing (which I always end up not completing because of boredom), I'd only use it if I really like a character, but I already have too many of that class/weapon-user. I hear the class changes are generally restricted to the character's personality, so I think I can reconcile that with myself. Multiple promotion paths, however, is something I love. =P

 

[Chrom]

This was 99% of the time I rescued, lol. The other 1% was using a Great Knight that would be bulky enough to not care and was probably getting doubled upon anyway.

While I'm here, I asked this question in the other thread, but it might have gotten lost.

If you're a level 15 promoted class, is it a better idea to class change to a prepromote to grab their skills as well, or just save time and seals and just class change to a another promoted class?

Also, does promoting and class changing affect your internal level when it comes to calculating exp? For instance, who would get the most exp from an identical fight, someone who has gained 10 levels, promoted, gained 10 levels, class changed, and gained 5 levels, or someone who gained 20 levels, promoted, and gained 5 levels? (Both total to 25 levels gained from the same starting point.

To the first question, I think it really depends on the skills and actual class attributes that you want. Like, if you still want Kellam to be a tank you're best off changing him to a Great Knight or General, but Kellam could be a Priest if you wanted, and he could get Miracle and get that kind of utility (or change him to Assassin and get Lethality!). You should take that kind of stuff into consideration. Of course, if you're just thinking about overall power though, reclassing to other promoted classes does sound like the simple way of going about things. I think it's your choice on how to develop your units.

Don't quote me on this, but because calculations for exp gains in other games have typically involved not much beyond a unit's level and a bonus for what class they actually are, I wouldn't think that Awakening would internally remember your "real" level number, because that just makes no sense whatsover and downplays the purpose of reclassing.

For those that have already played the game quite a bit, do the paralogue chapters eventually disappear if you don't play them, or will they stick around?

Paralogue chapters never leave until you complete them. You can do them whenever you'd like.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Oh definitely. I plan to class change sparingly. Outside of super endgame min-maxing (which I always end up not completing because of boredom), I'd only use it if I really like a character, but I already have too many of that class/weapon-user. I hear the class changes are generally restricted to the character's personality, so I think I can reconcile that with myself. Multiple promotion paths, however, is something I love. =P

That's definitely understandable, one of my favorite aspects of the FE series is how two people can finish the game in almost entirely different ways so throwing multiple promotion paths into the mix just makes that even more likely.

 

[Lumination]

Don't quote me on this, but because calculations for exp gains in other games have typically involved not much beyond a unit's level and a bonus for what class they actually are, I wouldn't think that Awakening would internally remember your "real" level number, because that just makes no sense whatsover and downplays the purpose of reclassing.

Thanks for the answer. I can confirm that the game does keep track of your "real level" for exp gain purposes. As a matter of fact each difficulty has an "internal level ceiling", so once you reach that level, you'll stop experiencing diminishing returns on exp. Naturally, this ceiling is higher the greater the difficulty.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Thanks for the answer. I can confirm that the game does keep track of your "real level" for exp gain purposes. As a matter of fact each difficulty has an "internal level ceiling", so once you reach that level, you'll stop experiencing diminishing returns on exp. Naturally, this ceiling is higher the greater the difficulty.

Intelligent Systems, indeed.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Did anyone in the US get the game early, or was that just our Canadian bros?

 

[Astral/H3X]

Pair Up replacing Rescue is on of the best things in the game. The usage of Rescue was extremely nuanced, taking impossible situations (someone attacking the boss, retreating and moving away at the same time to be healed) and making them easy, and now serves other highly nuanced purposes. I didnt get to try it too much, but it SEEMED as though switching doesnt count as an action, which if true makes pegasus knights the ULTIMATE partner for pure tactical advantage. You can basically use it to give a knight high movement and flying, get Lightning Speed on them and suddenly you have a highly effective death machine. Not to mention instead of hampering a unit it boosts them, and between A/S ranks, high levels, and those dual attack rate boosting skills, they can almost reliably get the second attack, allowing that second unit to basically get free, uncounterable attacks.
Pair Up is friggin awesome and blows Rescue out of the water.

 

[Chrom]

Thanks for the answer. I can confirm that the game does keep track of your "real level" for exp gain purposes. As a matter of fact each difficulty has an "internal level ceiling", so once you reach that level, you'll stop experiencing diminishing returns on exp. Naturally, this ceiling is higher the greater the difficulty.

Ah, so I was wrong then. I was actually trying to find an answer myself but I couldn't find anything.

In that case, if exp gain works like that, then I suppose that's fair... I personally thought having it so that it's basically neutral regardless of how many times you reclass would be simpler, but if there's an internal level ceiling that nixes the sense of continuum for exp gains so that you'll eventually slow down indefinitely, then I suppose that's a bit of a clever and even semi-realistic way for unit growth to carry out.

Pair Up replacing Rescue is on of the best things in the game. The usage of Rescue was extremely nuanced, taking impossible situations (someone attacking the boss, retreating and moving away at the same time to be healed) and making them easy, and now serves other highly nuanced purposes. I didnt get to try it too much, but it SEEMED as though switching doesnt count as an action, which if true makes pegasus knights the ULTIMATE partner for pure tactical advantage. You can basically use it to give a knight high movement and flying, get Lightning Speed on them and suddenly you have a highly effective death machine. Not to mention instead of hampering a unit it boosts them, and between A/S ranks, high levels, and those dual attack rate boosting skills, they can almost reliably get the second attack, allowing that second unit to basically get free, uncounterable attacks.
Pair Up is friggin awesome and blows Rescue out of the water.

Yeah, switching within pairs doesn't cost a turn or anything and you could cancel your action as if you never did so in the first place without any repercussions. I actually used the Pegasus Knight/Knight example to show why Pair Up is so effective in a previous post.

 

[Lumination]

Did anyone in the US get the game early, or was that just our Canadian bros?

Think it was just Canada, and even they had the street date reenacted.

Pair Up replacing Rescue is on of the best things in the game. The usage of Rescue was extremely nuanced, taking impossible situations (someone attacking the boss, retreating and moving away at the same time to be healed) and making them easy, and now serves other highly nuanced purposes. I didnt get to try it too much, but it SEEMED as though switching doesnt count as an action, which if true makes pegasus knights the ULTIMATE partner for pure tactical advantage. You can basically use it to give a knight high movement and flying, get Lightning Speed on them and suddenly you have a highly effective death machine. Not to mention instead of hampering a unit it boosts them, and between A/S ranks, high levels, and those dual attack rate boosting skills, they can almost reliably get the second attack, allowing that second unit to basically get free, uncounterable attacks.
Pair Up is friggin awesome and blows Rescue out of the water.

I agree with the rest, but I don't see how this is easier. Take your typical FE boss that has a close range weapon and a 2-range weapon. With rescue, you can take a unit, as long as they don't get 1-shot, and whittle the boss down, rescue away, and heal. In Awakening, you can only use units that can survive two rounds. Otherwise, you risk getting hit by the boss on your turn, and then getting killed on the enemy phase. You can't heal after you attack, because the boss will then 1-shot your typically weak healer. Pair up would only help if it allowed your unit to survive two rounds where they normally would not have. IMO, your options have decreased and this fight is now harder as a result.

Ah, so I was wrong then. I was actually trying to find an answer myself but I couldn't find anything.

In that case, if exp gain works like that, then I suppose that's fair... I personally thought having it so that it's basically neutral regardless of how many times you reclass would be simpler, but if there's an internal level ceiling that nixes the sense of continuum for exp gains so that you'll eventually slow down indefinitely, then I suppose that's a bit of a clever and even semi-realistic way for unit growth to carry out.

Either you misunderstood me, or I misunderstood you, haha. Let me reiterate, just to be sure. The ceiling stops units from getting diminishing returns; it doesn't stop them from gaining exp. The internal level is only used to calculate exp gains. This is why the ceiling is higher on greater difficulties. You're allowed to experience diminishing returns to a much greater extent when the ceiling is higher.

 

[beanman25]

I want to order through Amazon but they mention possible shipping delays. I'm fine if it's a few days, but that's it. Do you guys think it would arrive next week?

 

[Tunavi]

I want to order through Amazon but they mention possible shipping delays. I'm fine if it's a few days, but that's it. Do you guys think it would arrive next week?

If they don't ship by the 4th, I'll probably just go out and buy a copy

 

[Astral/H3X]

I agree with the rest, but I don't see how this is easier. Take your typical FE boss that has a close range weapon and a 2-range weapon. With rescue, you can take a unit, as long as they don't get 1-shot, and whittle the boss down, rescue away, and heal. In Awakening, you can only use units that can survive two rounds. Otherwise, you risk getting hit by the boss on your turn, and then getting killed on the enemy phase. You can't heal after you attack, because the boss will then 1-shot your typically weak healer. Pair up would only help if it allowed your unit to survive two rounds where they normally would not have. IMO, your options have decreased and this fight is now harder as a result.
.

Im about to blow your mind: dont attack on your turn. Just stand there, heal if you need. Same result. You still only get exposed to one round of battle. And with pair up youll smash him for more damage when you counter.

Granted there are moments where rescue would be nice, but more where Pair Up is amazing.

 

[Busaiku]

So does the DLC hit when the game officially launches, or do we just know it's "coming soon" or something?

 

[Lumination]

Im about to blow your mind: dont attack on your turn. Just stand there, heal if you need. Same result. You still only get exposed to one round of battle. And with pair up youll smash him for more damage when you counter.

Granted there are moments where rescue would be nice, but more where Pair Up is amazing.

No, I know that's an option. It's how you hold chokes. That's the worst option. That's the option that requires no input from the user. (And it's the most susceptible to ARGHWTFBOSSCRITS because the boss will usually have the weapon triangle advantage.)

 

[Astral/H3X]

Its rare that a boss has an axe and a lance, and when he does, just use an axe. What boss has all 3? Hell What CLASS has all 3? If you cant figure out how to avoid WTD thats on you.

Requires no input? So it ends with the exact same result with less effort? Sounds workable to me!

 

[Chrom]

Either you misunderstood me, or I misunderstood you, haha. Let me reiterate, just to be sure. The ceiling stops units from getting diminishing returns; it doesn't stop them from gaining exp. The internal level is only used to calculate exp gains. This is why the ceiling is higher on greater difficulties. You're allowed to experience diminishing returns to a much greater extent when the ceiling is higher.

Oh, I did misunderstand you then. I was thinking you were saying something that was going against what I originally answered for some reason. I get it now.

So does the DLC hit when the game officially launches, or do we just know it's "coming soon" or something?

Launch day, OP says so.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Omg first post on gaf?!
Well first things first this game is amazing!
It just oozes with so much to do
Funny thing is that i unintentionally broke the game my avatar and my chrom both hit 20 by chapter 8 and the ring goddess blessed my main a ton letting him train through everything cuz of his growth his kids (married to Cordelia) has insane stats too lol
Near end game and only 6 units required ;p
The pair up system is also pretty handy the stat boosts a character can give to a weak character can make traning them a bit easier

Edit: anyone have a problem with the language options? Mine keeps switching back from Japanese to English :/

 

[Mupod]

On truck for delivery...just called home and he didn't show up yet. The weather's pretty bad so I hope he can make it through. As long as I can be together with Tharja by the weekend I'm happy.

I still have no idea what difficulty settings I'm gonna use. Thinking hard/casual would suit me the best. I've only ever played one FE (Sacred Stones) but I'm far from new to SRPGs, and I'm used to SRW games which can be very difficult but don't have permadeath. But I also like having the same baseline experience as everyone else so normal/classic is appealing too.

 

[Calmness]

The Champion of Yore 1 downloadable content is on the eShop now.

 

[jwhit28]

Isn't the one 2 characters on 1 square thing for protection? Similar to rescuing units in Path of Radiance?

 

[Chrom]

Isn't the one 2 characters on 1 square thing for protection? Similar to rescuing units in Path of Radiance?

It's an advanced form of rescuing, basically.

 

[Roto13]

The Champion of Yore 1 downloadable content is on the eShop now.

Downloading now

 

[Mpl90]

Toonami promo for Bleach, brougth to you by the RNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZjeB-qUhiMc

 

[Chrom]

quick guys

give us localized names from the dlc

Toonami promo for Bleach, brougth to you by the RNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZjeB-qUhiMc

Well, that sure was random.

 

[Soriku]

Toonami promo for Bleach, brougth to you by the RNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZjeB-qUhiMc

They're still fighting Aizen?

 

[zroid]

I hadn't even noticed the official site is live http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/index.html

Character art abounds! Might want to add it to the OP (unless it's already there and I'm blind)

 

[Chrom]

I hadn't even noticed the official site is live http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/index.html

Character art abounds! Might want to add it to the OP (unless it's already there and I'm blind)

The full site was made live a few days ago, but you know, I never realized that all of the character art on the site already had transparent backgrounds unlike the Japanese site. That's neat.

Edit: Okay, maybe not all of them, never mind.

 

[lordfroakie]

Sadly, my GS won't be getting FE until feb 8. I decided to go digital with future 3ds games.

 

[Mr. Fix]

The Champion of Yore 1 downloadable content is on the eShop now.

Finally! Thanks for the heads up!

I hadn't even noticed the official site is live http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/index.html

Character art abounds! Might want to add it to the OP (unless it's already there and I'm blind)

In due time, and thanks!

 

[JollyWolf]

You guys think if I liked Advance War, I will enjoy Fire Emblem?

 

[Chrom]

You guys think if I liked Advance War, I will enjoy Fire Emblem?

Yeah.

 

[zroid]

It's neat how the avatar character cycles through I think 9 different artworks.

 

[Lumination]

Its rare that a boss has an axe and a lance, and when he does, just use an axe. What boss has all 3? Hell What CLASS has all 3? If you cant figure out how to avoid WTD thats on you.

Requires no input? So it ends with the exact same result with less effort? Sounds workable to me!

Got me with the first one.

As for the second, I don't like waiting for the enemy phase, I suppose as a habit from the older Fire Emblems where you had a ranking for turns used. But you have to admit that changing the flow of a boss fight from active player phases to passive player phases is a silly thing.

 

[dakkumauji]

Its rare that a boss has an axe and a lance, and when he does, just use an axe. What boss has all 3? Hell What CLASS has all 3? If you cant figure out how to avoid WTD thats on you.

Great Knights can use all three.

 

[The Awesomest]

Its rare that a boss has an axe and a lance, and when he does, just use an axe. What boss has all 3? Hell What CLASS has all 3? If you cant figure out how to avoid WTD thats on you.

Requires no input? So it ends with the exact same result with less effort? Sounds workable to me!

GBA Generals and Great Kights, Elibian Paladins can use the whole triangle. So boss classes in the GBA games, basically.