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Fire Emblem Heroes |OT| Mount Breeding Simulator
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
NahOh shit, that's right. For the first time in history, Roy is good.
Thoughts?
Roy is the homerun king in Melee
Oh shit, that's right. For the first time in history, Roy is good.
Thoughts?
The series underdog finally gets a win, it's pretty cool.
theprodigy
Member
since weapons don't count for BST, would those bonuses actually count for arena scoring?
fake news, Ice Climbers/Ganondorf share the WR
(ironically Roy does have the WR for Smash 4 home run contest)
Nah
Roy is the homerun king in Melee
fake news, Ice Climbers/Ganondorf share the WR
(ironically Roy does have the WR for Smash 4 home run contest)
Oh shit, that's right. For the first time in history, Roy is good.
Thoughts?
Well ya he, Lancina, and Lyn are good.
Oh shit, that's right. For the first time in history, Roy is good.
Thoughts?
Lyn being good is a comparably unprecedented event.
My current checklist:
- finish The Sacred World orb quests, because they expire tonight
- finish Nohrian Summer orb quests, ditto
- finish August quests because they expire tomorrow night
- decide who I'm backing for the CYL Voting Gauntlet
- decide which free CYL hero to pull
- decide if I want to blow orbs in September or wait for the October month-long banner
Code:
[IMG]https://68.media.tumblr.com/75a03e2ddfeba844f930e82b7fbc60af/tumblr_o9bd4sk88l1qd5aj1o2_1280.jpg[/IMG]How does that penalty work for defense teams? I often have a basic infantry team get matched up against cavalry teams with merges and inherited skills on everything.That number lines up with my own experiences. Considering the BST penalty, cavalry units aren't that appealing for Arena.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Expand, even if I never get to using all my fodder, if I can +10 a 4*, that'd be cool.I've got 160 orbs ready for tonight, but my hero stable is at 195/200...
Any list of units I can confidently send home without worrying about losing precious Skill Inheritance fodder for later?
Thanks!
Well ya he, Lancina, and Lyn are good.
Why do you think Ike is bad again?
Why do you think Ike is bad again?
Pretty sure he(?) thinks the dmg reduction thing only works for Brave-type weps.
We will know in a few hours~
Pretty sure he(?) thinks the dmg reduction thing only works for Brave-type weps.
We will know in a few hours~
No.
Why do you think Ike is bad again?
Because he's extremely magic frail, cannot run DC without undermining his own legendary, and is a big slow physical infantry unit. He basically has a trigger gimmick with QP/Heavy Breathing/Urvan.
Ya, he has boosted stats but who cares when he's got a ton of wasted points in speed? 28 is a pointless amount. For a wall, he has low HP as well which is what is made to absorb all of the Moonbow/Luna armor mitigation that's available. 43's on the low end.
Just use Sheena if you want an actual all-rounded wall that threatens on trigger procs. She can do everything he can do, she losses 6 in attack but has a stack more resistance and health. She can run his gimmick all the same, and she doesn't need to not be doubled with her monstrous defenses anyway.
... Or just use Beruka.
So you don't think giving the entire current Horse/Flier emblem meta a big middle finger matters even a little bit?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
No.
Because he's extremely magic frail, cannot run DC without undermining his own legendary, and is a big slow physical infantry unit. He basically has a trigger gimmick with QP/Heavy Breathing/Urvan.
Ya, he has boosted stats but who cares when he's got a ton of wasted points in speed? 28 is a pointless amount.
For a wall, he has low HP as well which is what is made to absorb all of the Moonbow/Luna armor mitigation that's available. 43's not much.
His stat distribution is definitely strange. Take his speed down to 22 and bump his Res to 24 and hp to 45, and we are talking.
So you don't think giving the entire current Horse/Flier emblem meta a big middle finger matters even a little bit?
See the thing is, I don't think he actually counters jack shit unless he gives up his "gimmick".
To actually be a counter, he'd need to run DC. If he doesn't threaten a kill, he's not a counter, he's just a speed bump. What is he going to do to Reinhardt? Ya, he'll only take ~20 damage, and then Reinhardt will get Swapped/Repositioned behind Xander. What has Ike accomplished other than taking 20-some damage? He's just shooting practice for a mage-heavy meta.
And he has zero answer to Scam. He's just a shooting target for her.
See the thing is, I don't think he actually counters jack shit unless he gives up his "gimmick".
To actually be a counter, he'd need to run DC. If he doesn't threaten a kill, he's not a counter, he's just a speed bump. What is he going to do to Reinhardt? Ya, he'll only take ~20 damage, and then Reinhardt will get Swapped/Repositioned behind Xander.
What has Ike accomplished other than taking 20-some damage?
And he has zero answer to Scam. He's just a shooting target for her.
The fact that he survives Reinhart (and pretty much any non-red, even a lot of flier/horse reds) by itself is a pretty big deal. How many other single units deal with a buffed Reinhart *and* Xander by themselves, again? You've put Ike in a situation that would be sh*t for pretty much any unit in the game and unlike pretty much everyone else Ike didn't die to Reinhart and won't even get OR'd by Xander. Scam won't OR him either.
So many teams are based around that buffed mounted unit ORing threats and they just can't do that to Ike. Having to play around a unit like that with a totally different playstyle by itself tells me he is strong, since that's what you have to do with any "meta" unit when you see em (and I might just try DC on him, he might not "need" his default just like Effie didn't "need" hers)
The fact that he survives Reinhart (and pretty much any non-red, even a lot of flier/horse reds) by itself is a pretty big deal. How many other single units deal with a buffed Reinhart *and* Xander by themselves, again?
Nino (Guard 3 will cancel out QP Moonbow), Fae, and Julia can survive Reinhardt, and they kill him.
Ike cannot deal with Xander...? Ike would just get killed by Xander. They're both slow as sin, and Xander will either be running Vantage or Quick Riposte on top of his color advantage. In either case, Ike is pretty much screwed.
Nino (Guard 3 will cancel out QP Moonbow)
Ehh... ok.
Nino (Guard 3 will cancel out QP Moonbow), Fae, and Julia can survive Reinhardt, and they kill him.
Xander said hi to all 3? (since, you know Ike had to deal with both at the same time too)
But unlike Reinhart having to attack Ike so that Xander could kill him, Xander did all the work himself.
Ike cannot deal with Xander...? Ike would just get killed by Xander. They're both slow as sin, and Xander will either be running Vantage or Quick Riposte on top of his color advantage. In either case, Ike is pretty much screwed
I suppose it depends on if A) he had already taken damage from someone else (and needed two turns from some of the best units in the game to do it in said case from our current hypothetical, no less) and B) if Ike is still full health/has any buffs from the rest of his team (they are probably somewhere? and Xander's buffs wouldn't matter).
I mean, it's a bit of an assumption since I can't plug everything in on the sim here and I don't understand how everything on his skills works yet, but if he's taking 80% less dmg from the second hit on, plus has -2 charge, plus his extra +4 def, plus has his charge up if he did take dmg from someone else or isn't using Aether, plus his "super effective vs horses" status...I'm not as sure about this scenario as you seem to be.
Regardless I will pull for Ike because I like him. The only reason I am not using my free pull is because I hate pulling gray orbs. IfI am lucky there will be some orbs left for Lucina.
You are already Batre
Better than healers and ninjas. I need some archers tho.You are already Batre
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Who would put Guard on Nino? Lol
Better than healers and ninjas. I need some archers tho.
I need Kleins bad, nothing much I need from green right now that wouldn't steal my pity counter. I'd also like a better Kagero than -Spd+Res (though I fully expect to be smothered by clerics I don't want).
I'm still going Lynn if our free unit isn't neutral though since Horse Emblem effectively erases a bad nature.
How does that penalty work for defense teams? I often have a basic infantry team get matched up against cavalry teams with merges and inherited skills on everything.
Shouldn't make that much of a difference due to the hard cap.
Well ya he, Lancina, and Lyn are good.
What a BORING answer.
I'd be singing a very different tune if Ike's stats weren't as dumb as they are, as Man-is-Obsolete outlined. He just has pointless speed and no resistance with fairly unimpressive HP. He's a two-stat heavy unit with a gimmick on charging triggers.
Compared to the other three, he's just not very good. Lucina has Lucina's excellent stats. Roy has actually good stats. Lyn has crazy stats.
What are you talking about? I think you've completely missed the train for the spur in the track.
What I was demonstrating to you was that Ike *without DC* cannot kill or threaten Reinhardt, and is therefore not an actual *counter* in the strict sense because he does not stop Reinhardt, he just stalls him (and losses half of his HP). Xander repositioning Reinhardt is literally only applicable for Ike because he's not *killing* Reinhardt.
Julia, Nino, and Fae can have Reinhardt engage on them and then he will die because (a.) they do not need DC, and (b.) they are able to soak him even better than Ike. Xander is irrelevant here because he cannot reach as far as Reinhardt, Reinhardt is dead and cannot be repositioned, and Reinhardt is dead and therefore actually countered. (Hector can counter non-QP Reinhardt because he kills him, and then activates ER or Vantage.)
This is a two step process:
Reinhardt engages -> Ike Soaks or Mages/Fae Kill Reinhardt
Xander moves forward after Reinhardt -> Reinhardt is repositioned behind Xander and out of Ike's range or Reinhardt is dead and Xander does nothing but approach.
The former is not a counter, its a stall. The latter is an actual counter. Reinhardt is dead, ie. countered and cannot be repositioned away or into a dancer. If Ike runs DC, he undermines Urvan's effect ie. he doesn't work well with DC as it undermines his unit's uniqueness.
If there is a dancer, and this a Luna Reinhardt, Ike is dead. Great counter.
He's not super effective against horses.
Better to put Guard on her to guarantee that she can always counter Reinhardt than to waste it on a conditional that is hardly ever even relevant for a unit that can OHKO most enemies she'd intended to kill.
Compared to the other three, he's just not very good. Lucina has Lucina's excellent stats. Roy has actually good stats. Lyn has crazy stats.
Xander said hi to all 3? (since, you know Ike had to deal with both at the same time too)
But unlike Reinhart having to attack Ike so that Xander could kill him, Xander did all the work himself.
What are you talking about? I think you've completely missed the train for the spur in the track.
What I was demonstrating to you was that Ike *without DC* cannot kill or threaten Reinhardt, and is therefore not an actual *counter* in the strict sense because he does not stop Reinhardt, he just stalls him (and losses half of his HP). Xander repositioning Reinhardt is literally only applicable for Ike because he's not *killing* Reinhardt.
Julia, Nino, and Fae can have Reinhardt engage on them and then he will die because (a.) they do not need DC, and (b.) they are able to soak him even better than Ike. Xander is irrelevant here because he cannot reach as far as Reinhardt, Reinhardt is dead and cannot be repositioned, and Reinhardt is dead and therefore actually countered. (Hector can counter non-QP Reinhardt because he kills him, and then activates ER or Vantage.)
This is a two step process:
Reinhardt engages -> Ike Soaks or Mages/Fae Kill Reinhardt
Xander moves forward after Reinhardt -> Reinhardt is repositioned behind Xander and out of Ike's range or Reinhardt is dead and Xander does nothing but approach.
The former is not a counter, its a stall. The latter is an actual counter. Reinhardt is dead, ie. countered and cannot be repositioned away or into a dancer. If Ike runs DC, he undermines Urvan's effect ie. he doesn't work well with DC as it undermines his unit's uniqueness.
If there is a dancer, and this a Luna Reinhardt, Ike is dead. Great counter.
I mean, it's a bit of an assumption since I can't plug everything in on the sim here and I don't understand how everything on his skills works yet, but if he's taking 80% less dmg from the second hit on, plus has -2 charge, plus his extra +4 def, plus has his charge up if he did take dmg from someone else or isn't using Aether, plus his "super effective vs horses" status...I'm not as sure about this scenario as you seem to be.
He's not super effective against horses.
Who would put Guard on Nino? Lol
Better to put Guard on her to guarantee that she can always counter Reinhardt than to waste it on a conditional that is hardly ever even relevant for a unit that can OHKO most enemies she'd intended to kill.
Roy gets to sneak out without a penalty thanks to his dad's sword.
No. The BST used in Arena scoring are before skills (including weapons); this is not speculation but explicitly said in the announcement back when the arena shakeup was introduced. Unless the CYL weapons cost more than the normal legendary weapons, like cost 500SP or something, they have no effect in arena scoring. The real salvation for Broy in terms of arena scoring comes from Galeforce, which translates to 15 BST, not 3.
Bike and Blyn do have real BST boosts though, but that doesn't come from weapons, they are blatant increase to their actual BST.
No. The BST used in Arena scoring are before skills (including weapons); this is not speculation but explicitly said in the announcement back when the arena shakeup was introduced. Unless the CYL weapons cost more than the normal legendary weapons, like cost 500SP or something, they have no effect in arena scoring. The real salvation for Broy in terms of arena scoring comes from Galeforce, which translates to 15 BST, not 3.
Bike and Blyn do have real BST boosts though, but that doesn't come from weapons, they are blatant increase to their actual BST.
Ya this was corrected for me on the discord.
Better to put Guard on her to guarantee that she can always counter Reinhardt than to waste it on a conditional that is hardly ever even relevant for a unit that can OHKO most enemies she'd intended to kill.
Nino does not one hit a lot of heroes, especially common DC threats like Hector or Ryoma. Desperation is needed for the safe follow up on them if you want the kill. G Tomebreaker also allows her to check Julia and other Ninos.
Also, +res Nino or Fury Nino with Fortify Res survives the full Reinhardt combo with 1 HP while killing on the counter. If she has Desperation she can just use that to sweep the rest of the match.
Guard is useless.
Mathematics
Neo Member
Good luck everyone rolling in CYL. Lurk some more when I eat breakfast and roll some myself
Nino does not one hit a lot of heroes, especially common DC threats like Hector or Ryoma. Desperation is needed for the safe follow up on them if you want the kill. G Tomebreaker also allows her to check Julia and other Ninos.
Also, +res Nino or Fury Nino with Fortify Res survives the full Reinhardt combo with 1 HP while killing on the counter. If she has Desperation she can just use that to sweep the rest of the match.
Guard is useless.
She doesn't survive a buffed QP Reinhardt. Her res isn't that great, same problem Hector has with QP Reinhardt.
kuroneko0509
Member
that minigame link is up
https://events.fire-emblem-heroes.com/color
only accessible on mobile device
https://events.fire-emblem-heroes.com/color
only accessible on mobile device
She doesn't survive a buffed QP Reinhardt. Her res isn't that great, same problem Hector has with QP Reinhardt.
+att Reinhardt with DB3, QP, Hone Cavalry? Yes she does. I've done it myself.
that minigame link is up
https://t.co/IH3yitMhLI
only accessible on mobile device (lemme replace that url in a bit)
do you get anything for playing it?
kuroneko0509
Member
do you get anything for playing it?
it's community cumulative score
500m-999m = 2 orb + 500 feather
1b-1.49b = 5 orb + 2k feather
1.5b & above = 10 orb + 5k feather
like the usual campaign, highest reward only & not additive
edit: apparently there's wallpapers & other stuff as play reward as well, haven't really started playing it
What are you talking about? I think you've completely missed the train for the spur in the track.
Am I? I'm trying to understand here because it seems like you're focusing only what he can't do rather than what he can do.
You gave me a scenario where Ike had to deal with both Rein and Xander at the same time. Why is Rein allowed to attack Ike and then have Xander re position in front of him, but in that exact same scenario vs others Xander is not allowed to just kill Rein's counters while Rein watches and never had to engage in the first place? It doesn't matter if those units you mentioned theoretically counter Rein if Rein is just smart enough to let the Xander who is apparently there come over and do what he is supposed to do.
Also, I don't understand why he isn't allowed to run DC and keep -1 charge from his weapon if we are so worried about him directly attacking Rein. It's not as good for charges as SB, but it's there.It's even better for Ike in that case, because even without Steady Breath that charge *will* come up from Rein and if Ike does have Aether he's gonna be full health.
He's not super effective against horses.
I see now how I read this incorrectly. Point still stands about everything else. I still want to see what Xander does to Ike without his usual buffs and with Ike's special up. Either he's going to run DC and be a Rein counter, or he's going to be SB and give the melee units a lot of trouble. Even with triangle advantage, Aether's gonna hurt reds.
it's community cumulative score
500m-999m = 2 orb + 500 feather
1b-1.49b = 5 orb + 2k feather
1.5b & above = 10 orb + 5k feather
like the usual campaign, highest reward only & not additive
edit: apparently there's wallpapers & other stuff as play reward as well, haven't really started playing it
ooh, thanks. guess i will check it out. this + twitter orbs will be a nice addition.
+att Reinhardt with DB3, QP, Hone Cavalry? Yes she does. I've done it myself.
Impossible. This is a +res Nino with Fury 3.
Round 1 (Enemy Phase):
Reinhardt initiates;
Reinhardt gets +6 atk from initiating with Death Blow 3.;
Reinhardt's attack is multiplied by 0.8 because of weapon advantage.
Reinhardt attacks Nino for 12 damage.;
Nino 21 : Reinhardt 38;
Reinhardt attacks again with a brave weapon.;
Reinhardt activates Moonbow.
Reinhardt's attack is multiplied by 0.8 because of weapon advantage.
Reinhardt attacks Nino for 21 damage.;
Nino 0 : Reinhardt 38;
She has to be +res, and buffed or running HP seal. If she's not +res, and is just buffed she dies again.
Or I am making a mistake somewhere
Am I? I'm trying to understand here because it seems like you're focusing only what he can't do rather than what he can do.
You gave me a scenario where Ike had to deal with both Rein and Xander at the same time. Why is Rein allowed to attack Ike and then have Xander re position in front of him, but in that exact same scenario vs others Xander is not allowed to just kill Rein's counters while Rein watches and never had to engage in the first place? It doesn't matter if those units you mentioned theoretically counter Rein if Rein is just smart enough to let the Xander who is apparently there come over and do what he is supposed to do.
Also, I don't understand why he isn't allowed to run DC and keep -1 charge from his weapon if we are so worried about him directly attacking Rein. It's not as good for charges as SB, but it's there.It's even better for Ike in that case, because even without Steady Breath that charge *will* come up from Rein and if Ike does have Aether he's gonna be full health.
Reinhardt is a 3+2 range unit, Xander is a 3+1 range unit. It is physically impossible for Xander to engage a unit that Reinhardt is engaging at maximum range on turn 1 which is where, ideally, you would be placing a Julia, Nino, Fae, Hector, or Ike if they're intended to deal with Reinhardt. You wouldn't put them in range of *other* things. Reinhardt not being killed by Ike then leaves Xander capable of repositioning, this isn't possible for Julia/Nino/Fae because Reinhardt is dead.
Xander isn't allowed to kill them for the same reason he's not being allowed to kill Ike in this scenario: he cannot reach them. Xander isn't killing Ike in the scenario I presented, Xander is positioned between Ike and Reinhardt and Ike cannot kill Xander on the player phase. This means Ike's ability to check Reinhardt is poor and entirely dependent on positioning rather than outright killing Reinhardt on the very first and only engage. Furthermore, allowing Reinhardt to be positioned back actually allows him to be danced on the same turn. This would be a disaster.
The whole point of Julia/Fae is that they are hard counters. They do not stall Reinhardt, they delete him. He cannot be repositioned or danced or supported because he's dead.
Ike does not delete Reinhardt, he doesn't even damage him.
As for DC, at that point... why not just use Hector? The biggest knock on DC is that it undermines the effects of Urvan's secondary trigger. If he cannot kill a mage/archer/assassin in one hit that would otherwise be potentially neutered by Urvan's secondary effect, he's just setting himself up to be killed. Yes, DC Ike can counter Reinhardt but why not just use units who can do more than just counter Reinhardt and have much better stat spreads? Fae is a very good dragon, use her instead.
Impossible. This is a +res Nino with Fury 3.
She has to be +res, and buffed or running HP seal. If she's not +res, and is just buffed she dies again.
Or I am making a mistake somewhere
Yes I mentioned Fortify Res. Also I forgot but she needs the res seal to survive if she's not +res. But that's a better loss than the B slot.
Yes I mentioned Fortify Res. Also I forgot but she needs the res seal to survive if she's not +res. But that's a better loss than the B slot.
I run GTB or Guard depending on team comp. Guard guarantees that my Nino (that isn't +res, and is in fact -hp) can weather any Reinhardt. If I have an option in the rotation for Reinhardt, Nino will run GTB.
Nightcrown
Member
The CYL units are permanent, right? Not limited/temporary?
The CYL units are permanent, right? Not limited/temporary?
They seem to be limited-time units.