I feel for you bro, but you really should not have split your orb investment like that to be perfectly honest. You should try to clear your pity counter on one banner before moving onto the next.
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Fire Emblem Heroes |OT|Natural Selection Simulator
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I feel for you bro, but you really should not have split your orb investment like that to be perfectly honest. You should try to clear your pity counter on one banner before moving onto the next.
Would be crazy for IS to hand out a free blue dancer (or two actually, a 4* and a 5*) just like that though. inb4 Masked Azura without the dance/sing skill. lol
And without Sapphire Lance+ too, obviously
If they wanted something less useful without going the 'no skills' route directly, they could give her Rally Speed instead, as a reference to Inspiring Song.
Oh yeah, it's definitely funny. I've been in the same boat myself. "Let's try running this other team!" *gets Reinhardt* "Fuck"
I just really hate Reinhardt and some of the bullshit you run into in arena these days. It's just not fun to run into bullshit team after bullshit team all the time, after you hit a certain arena score.
While I agree with you on the "importance of IVs is overblown" part, IVs do have various degrees of effects on different units. No matter what IV Hector has, he will always be good. However, for units with middling speed at neutral, a speed bane can be pretty crippling; for brave weapon users, the effect of a attack bane is magnified. Just to name a few examples.
"Critical" to what, though? Finishing what content that would otherwise be too hard to finish? People will point to fights at the extreme margins and then say "see, it matters", but that's just ignoring the other 99.9% of fights where it wouldn't matter. This really isn't such a min-max game.
I see people who roll a character with a less than ideal IV (in their mind), and then keep rolling in order to get a "better" IV, and it's just crazy to me. That's why Nintendo made $100m in 6 months!
i was trying for another nino for cecilia the day before they announced the two new banners
I agree that for the most part, IVs are not that important, but it definitely matters for units where their main distinguishing trait is having a few stat points in ATK or SPD over the next best unit of that role. Getting a bane in those stats can screw these units pretty hard. It doesn't make them useless, but sometimes it's enough to make you choose another unit for the role instead.
I run a -atk Ryoma pretty regularly, and he works great because he's still strong enough to kill if he doubles. But with a weaker unit like MRobin who doesn't pack much punch to begin with, a -atk IV would screw him over pretty badly because he really needs those 3 atk points to do respectable damage. Same goes for units that are kind of niche in stat choice, like -atk Cherche or -spd Setsuna.
I've never tried to whale for an ideal IV 5* character, though. That's just too rich for my blood. I'm happy if I get the character I want to begin with.
I run a -atk Ryoma pretty regularly, and he works great because he's still strong enough to kill if he doubles. But with a weaker unit like MRobin who doesn't pack much punch to begin with, a -atk IV would screw him over pretty badly because he really needs those 3 atk points to do respectable damage. Same goes for units that are kind of niche in stat choice, like -atk Cherche or -spd Setsuna.
I've never tried to whale for an ideal IV 5* character, though. That's just too rich for my blood. I'm happy if I get the character I want to begin with.
My -Spd Ryoma gets doubled and killed in arena when facing enemy Ryomas in arena, even if they are not +Spd. All they need is being +4 merged or more, which for me is almost the minimum.
Speed banes cripple a lot of units - fast mages, middling speed tanks, even someone like Hector starts losing key matchups with it.
Attack banes cripple Brave users, including Reinhardt and the fliers.
It doesn't matter when it's an "edge" or "margin" case when it breaks your streak. I regularly converse with top placing arena players and none of them would even remotely argue natures don't matter.
The math and the calcs are there, and we're doing thousands of them.
Speed banes cripple a lot of units - fast mages, middling speed tanks, even someone like Hector starts losing key matchups with it.
Attack banes cripple Brave users, including Reinhardt and the fliers.
It doesn't matter when it's an "edge" or "margin" case when it breaks your streak. I regularly converse with top placing arena players and none of them would even remotely argue natures don't matter.
The math and the calcs are there, and we're doing thousands of them.
I don't know why you'd use your Ryoma to kill an enemy Ryoma in arena when it's so easy to bait them into dying to your blue unit. That's a sub-optimal attack, regardless of IV.
I regularly place in arena 20 but get smacked down because I lack the merged units to stay. Being a "top arena" player just boils down to having higher merged units. If the game ever puts everyone on an even playing field then we can talk about being a top player
But even assuming what you are saying is true, that really proves my point. That's at the margins, and in a place that doesn't matter to 99.9% of players. That's exactly my point. Do you think having a -speed Ryoma matters in lower tiers? In PvE, which is the vast majority of the game? Probably not. Is it worth it to keep rerolling for a better Ryoma, just in case you one day find yourself in a battle of merged + 7 Ryoma? Probably not
The bottom line is that IVs don't matter in 99.9% of circumstances for 99.9% of the people who are playing the game. Can it tip a match-up against you or in your favor? Of course. But it's not a big deal, and people shouldn't bench units they'd otherwise use just because it's a "bad" IV.
I'm at a point where I have decent units and the feathers to promote them, but not enough good SI fodder to make them really good.
Not enough Reposition fodder, no Death Blow 3 for a 4* Rein, only one Hinata but multiple casters, and so on.
I can't believe I actually want to roll Barst. I have a few Selenas but I don't really want to spend her on Reposition alone, since TA2 is super useful too.
Not enough Reposition fodder, no Death Blow 3 for a 4* Rein, only one Hinata but multiple casters, and so on.
I can't believe I actually want to roll Barst. I have a few Selenas but I don't really want to spend her on Reposition alone, since TA2 is super useful too.
It's not a suboptimal attack at all and being -Spd takes crucial options away from you that depend on positioning and map. It is factually, objectively not correct to claim that it doesn't matter.
Actually I know free to play players who stay in tier 20 only using one +1 merged unit. Player skill and knowledge on inheritance are decisive factors in being able to compete - and natures make or break your options.I regularly place in arena 20 but get smacked down because I lack the merged units to stay. Being a "top arena" player just boils down to having higher merged units. If the game ever puts everyone on an even playing field then we can talk about being a top player
But even assuming what you are saying is true, that really proves my point. That's at the margins, and in a place that doesn't matter to 99.9% of players. That's exactly my point. Do you think having a -speed Ryoma matters in lower tiers? In PvE, which is the vast majority of the game? Probably not. Is it worth it to keep rerolling for a better Ryoma, just in case you one day find yourself in a battle of merged + 7 Ryoma? Probably not
It absolutely matters in PvE, whether it's Chain Challenge, Squad Assault or Infernal Grand Hero Battles. We constantly hear about players being unable to utilize suggestions given by others because they are -Spd or -Atk. Natures matter for a majority of the playerbase.
Yes they are a big deal and they should consider it.
ShinRPGamer
Member
Adding on to what Roman said, getting a good IV for a unit can grant a unit more options then if they had neutral IVs for example. I know my +spd -hp Minerva for example would not be nowhere near as flexible if she didn't have that speed boon. So saying that IVs don't mean anything Commish is really inaccurate.
For what it's worth, TA isn't that great anymore due to CA existing so it might be a better option to guy a Selena so they can get reposition and threaten speed 2.
For what it's worth, TA isn't that great anymore due to CA existing so it might be a better option to guy a Selena so they can get reposition and threaten speed 2.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
My first Robin(M) I got to 40 back in the starting days was -Atk. He is utterly useless in PVE.I don't know why you'd use your Ryoma to kill an enemy Ryoma in arena when it's so easy to bait them into dying to your blue unit. That's a sub-optimal attack, regardless of IV.
I regularly place in arena 20 but get smacked down because I lack the merged units to stay. Being a "top arena" player just boils down to having higher merged units. If the game ever puts everyone on an even playing field then we can talk about being a top player
But even assuming what you are saying is true, that really proves my point. That's at the margins, and in a place that doesn't matter to 99.9% of players. That's exactly my point. Do you think having a -speed Ryoma matters in lower tiers? In PvE, which is the vast majority of the game? Probably not. Is it worth it to keep rerolling for a better Ryoma, just in case you one day find yourself in a battle of merged + 7 Ryoma? Probably not
The bottom line is that IVs don't matter in 99.9% of circumstances for 99.9% of the people who are playing the game. Can it tip a match-up against you or in your favor? Of course. But it's not a big deal, and people shouldn't bench units they'd otherwise use just because it's a "bad" IV.
I challenge this assertion.
Okay, if you think the best way to kill an enemy Ryoma is with your own Ryoma, rather than a blue unit, then thats fine. If you want to point out an example of it mattering at the margins (in this case, a Ryoma on Ryoma attack with high merged characters at tier 20), then okay? I agree with you. I said before that it CAN matter. It just doesnt most of the time. I'm not even sure if you are disagreeing with that idea, or if you do think it matters most of the time.
I still have no problem winning my 7 matches at tier 20 thanks to the dumb AI, but my score just isnt enough. If someone can stay in tier 20 each week with only one +1 merge, then more power to them. Again, though, Im pretty sure thats at the far, far, far margins.
Sorry, I refuse to believe that any content couldnt be defeated another way. If they are unable to beat it using a very specific strategy, then Im fairly certain there is another strategy they could use to beat the content. Just look at the current infernal Berkut. There have been dozens and dozens and dozens of different team comps used to defeat the content. No content in this game is designed in such a way that anything is required, let alone a specific IV. It's just not a min-max game to that extent.
It doesn't have to be "the best way", but map, positioning and enemy team can very often force you to tank the same color. The difference between being -Spd and neutral is having your streak broken and not. Being at "the margins" doesn't at all matter to the player being faced with that situation, and it's not an uncommon one, especially with the Speed stat.
It's much easier if you pull good natures on high base stat units with unique weapons and expensive skills to go along with them.
I don't disagree with the notion of there being many ways of clearing PvE. However, this doesn't refute the point that suggestions become unusable.
The vast majority of builds we evaluate on the wiki become unviable with crippling natures - particularly -Atk on brave weapon users and -Spd on mages. The math speaks for itself.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
A lot of Berkut strats use F2P and ayyyy no crucial hinderances.
I think what commish is saying is that IVs aren't as make or break as a lot of people are saying. Of course it makes a difference, and a good IV unit is better than a neutral or bad IV version of the same unit, but for the most part a unit with neutral, irrelevant or even bad IV is still perfectly usable, and not instantly useless the way some people seem to assume.
At least, a suboptimal or bad IV unit can still be made to work with reasonable degrees of success in PvE or PvP. If you pull a bad IV version of a unit, usually you don't need to continue whaling for an optimal IV version of the same unit unless you either REALLY like that unit or want that unit to be super competitive in top tier arena.
With an average player's resources (maybe a bit of money spent but not super whale tier), it's usually fine to play around a bad IV instead of discarding the unit immediately.
The way I see it:
Bad IV (like -spd or -atk on a spd/atk based unit): In some cases, this hurts the unit in key matchups that the unit would normally be expected to cover. Sometimes salvageable if you play around this weakness, or if you use SI to help patch up the weakness. If you have a different unit with a good IV, sometimes choosing that unit is a better option.
Neutral or irrelevant IV: Perfectly usable.
Good IV: Great if you get it, but almost never the only viable version of the unit.
At least, a suboptimal or bad IV unit can still be made to work with reasonable degrees of success in PvE or PvP. If you pull a bad IV version of a unit, usually you don't need to continue whaling for an optimal IV version of the same unit unless you either REALLY like that unit or want that unit to be super competitive in top tier arena.
With an average player's resources (maybe a bit of money spent but not super whale tier), it's usually fine to play around a bad IV instead of discarding the unit immediately.
The way I see it:
Bad IV (like -spd or -atk on a spd/atk based unit): In some cases, this hurts the unit in key matchups that the unit would normally be expected to cover. Sometimes salvageable if you play around this weakness, or if you use SI to help patch up the weakness. If you have a different unit with a good IV, sometimes choosing that unit is a better option.
Neutral or irrelevant IV: Perfectly usable.
Good IV: Great if you get it, but almost never the only viable version of the unit.
theprodigy
Member
I challenge this assertion!
We would have to exactly define what "usable" and "reasonable degrees of success" mean because for me and the vast majority of players I interact with, it really is a make or break scenario.
Granted, many of them are whales, but even the others would strongly agree with that stance.
ShinRPGamer
Member
Celica > Katarina > Tharja
TA is still highly useful because CA is a niche option that isn't used all that much in practice. CA is only useful on a select few units as well.
Fate_Shirou
Member
where will you put Lilina?
Hiks. How far have my Tharja had fallen mrgrgrgr.
Also, Lilina. Good or justs skip?
SliceSabre
Banned
All this talk about IVs just reminds me I cannot for the life of me decided between my Robin of my -ATK, +RES Mae.
I feel like promoting her is a waste of feathers because Bad IV but I REALLY need a Blue Mage.
I feel like promoting her is a waste of feathers because Bad IV but I REALLY need a Blue Mage.
Tharja and Katarina are about on par. The latter is better at tanking magic, but this is not their primary role.
Lilina is very good with a Blade tome.
Mae is also very good with a Blade tome despite -Atk.
SliceSabre
Banned
I wish I could give her one but I have gotten all of one Odin in the entire time I've played this game and he was long since sent home before SI was even a thing.
You could maybe make something happen with her Owl tome but it's very difficult to maintain positioning in an arena context to keep her fast and strong enough.
With Cancel Affinity I would describe Robin's Raven tome as even shakier to be honest.
ShinRPGamer
Member
She's generally considered to be the worst of the 5 relevant red mages with Sanaki slightly edging her out for 4th best. That said, She's still a solid unit overall particularly with a balde weapon.
I really liked Katarina and Celica but they never dawn to me. I am thinking of upgrading my Sophia or Lilina actually but still considering it actually lol.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
My Male Robin is level 36 and it's a grind to get to 40 because he hits like a wet paper bag. He's -atk.
I'd say that "usable to a reasonable degree of success" means being able to field the unit in the game effectively, without the unit feeling useless.
For example, my Ryoma -atk +res, but I still use him in my core team in arena, quests, and sometimes Tempest. I bring him out now and then for GHBs and such as well. He made deathless arena runs a whole lot easier for me. In many cases, he brings more to my teams than my +1 neutral Lucina, who is my next best red sword. Ryoma simply has an excellent stat spread and sword that is not significantly hurt by the -atk IV.
Some would say that because of his IV, he's useless and that I should either throw him out, bench him or try pulling for a better unit. But I'd strongly disagree with that. Is a neutral or +atk Ryoma better, and would one win over mine in a one-on-one? Sure, probably. But I still consider my Ryoma one of the best units on my roster, and good enough that I don't see the point in spending a massive amount of orbs trying to roll for a better Ryoma.
Depends on what you want to use a blue mage for. Robin is generally better at tanking reds and archers while dealing respectable damage. He lacks the punch to kill most full health units without a double though, so you would want to pair him with Quick Riposte or a breaker skill. I still maintain that Triangle Adept Robin is still good in a niche sort of way, but isn't good if you want a blue nuke. It's not his role. He has a much stronger enemy phase (good at baiting/softening reds and greys and then finishing them off during player phase) than player phase (he's kinda bad at attacking and killing full health units on your turn).
Mae is much more nukey but less tanky. I kept her Owl tome and gave her Darting Blow for easy doubles (mine's +spd to boot), and she does pretty good damage, even with only one or two people next to her. But another good use for her is tanking magic, thanks to high res. It's relatively easy to park her in a bait position with several people next to her to raise her stats high enough to not take much magic damage, so she can act somewhat like a blue Julia in that regard. She's much more of a traditional mage in that she's great with magic, but very weak against anything physical. She's good at enemy phase but ONLY against magic attackers, and much stronger in player phase because of her nuking abilities.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Well Ryoma is super top tier so if he has a sucky hindrance, he's still usable.
That's what I mean. Many units are perfectly usable with middling or bad IVs, as long as the unit's entire function and build does not hinge on those stats.
I wouldn't agree with the people calling your Ryoma useless or crippled either. -Atk isn't that bad on him and +Res is actually a very nice boon. In the context of tanking mages, he's fine. -Spd is significantly worse.
sitting on 24k feathers again, but normal/hard Chain Challenge is still untouched. Assuming I don't pull an Olwen I guess my next goals will be promoting Reinhardt followed by a blade tome for Leo. Leo's stat spread is so aggressively shit that I don't know if even cavalry buffs+blade tome can salvage him but he's literally the only red mage option.
from there all I need is another green to field a full cavalry B team. Not a whole lot of options there...even if I had a good axe Fred that'd be a major feather investment. I'll be able to come up with a bunch more orbs before this banner is gone so maybe RNGesus will hook me up with a Titania.
I cleared all of the Paralogue chain challenges on Lunatic but I guess the real demon's souls starts here. Still haven't needed to use anything but my first team. We'll see how it goes on the 10 map story ones.
from there all I need is another green to field a full cavalry B team. Not a whole lot of options there...even if I had a good axe Fred that'd be a major feather investment. I'll be able to come up with a bunch more orbs before this banner is gone so maybe RNGesus will hook me up with a Titania.
I cleared all of the Paralogue chain challenges on Lunatic but I guess the real demon's souls starts here. Still haven't needed to use anything but my first team. We'll see how it goes on the 10 map story ones.
Certainly.
He has the bulk to use Life and Death (but Fury or Death Blow are still options), his Atk/Spd would go up to 32/30 with a Speed boon. If you add Hone Cavalry it becomes 38/36. With Raudrblade his Atk would thus be 51.
This is what I get with Hone+Fortify and a Spd seal (no Goad):
Adding Goad just adds 10 wins at that point.
I should probably do that as well. I've done a few of those, but not all. Of the others, I only finished chapter 1 & 2 so far. I tried 3 & 4 today and I friggin lost there. I think I reached the last map with 1 unit of team 3 alive. Jesus, those stats...
The_White_Rose
Member
dreamlongdead
Member
So, I'm a poor F2P player who is now building Horse Emblem. I don't have Reinhardt or Olwen, and I'm not pulling from the Cavalry banner.
I decided to 5* Ursula, because I already had tons of SP and HM on her using her because of the monthly "Clear 10th stratum w/ Cavalry" quests. She'll obviously be getting the Blarblade+.
She is looking strong.
I decided to 5* Ursula, because I already had tons of SP and HM on her using her because of the monthly "Clear 10th stratum w/ Cavalry" quests. She'll obviously be getting the Blarblade+.
She is looking strong.
Good luck & have fun with Ursula! One thing IntSys has done well, is offer really good F2P units. I threw money at Swimsuit Robin and Bridal Cordelia but it was great knowing that I still had a use for Olivia.
Great! How has he been working out? I'm using Folksvangr for points myself.
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