Support NeoGAF

[ggx2ac]

I mean, whales will that's the point.

Arena won't be fun for the immediate future until they fix Arena matchmaking.

It doesn't matter about whether people have them now though, eventually people will. I like the idea that all units can have a niche. I hate the idea that any unit can do anything. Then there's no uniqueness to anything. Blergh.

Some units are really shit though with the skills they were given. Being allowed to tweak their skills to your own preference is nice.

Imagine you are the biggest Jagen fan, he has 38 resistance but his special is Aegis, a defensive move. Now you can give him Iceberg or Glacies which gives him a damage boost special making him more formidable against mages.

Edit: Whoops DP.

 

[Alkez]

It's based on preference.

I feel like I'm having Déjà vu, basically my Female Corrin has Draconic Aura which can boost her attack stat by +30% for one attack however, I could replace it with Bonfire because she has good defense.

That makes sense. Thanks for your answer.

Ironically Corrin was the reason I was asking about Bonfire. I know Draconic is really good but I had the same thoughts you did.

 

[Blackquill]

How do I inherite level 3 skills ?

 

[michaelius]

So I can now slap on of those increase attack by 50% special skill now on Linde then double tap some hopeless target and dance her with Olivia to unload one shot auto kill on someone like Takumi.

I'm really dissapointing in how they implemented it:

- best weapons and at least some of skills are locked behind 5* upgrade (Pay2Win for whales)
- since the system is almost everything goes - you have to read skills on every oponent character in PvP
- characters will be BST on legs

Not sure If I see point in continue playing

 

[ggx2ac]

How do I inherite level 3 skills ?

The character you inherit skills from has to be able to obtain them in the first place.

If a skill level 3 says that character needs to be 5* for the prerequisite and that character is only 4*, then you need to get that character to 5* to get the level 3 version.

 

[explodet]

Just fed Ursula an Odin.
IT BEGINS

They just made this game Marvel vs Capcom 2.

This is strong truth.

 

[redcrayon]

I mean, whales will that's the point.

Arena won't be fun for the immediate future until they fix Arena matchmaking. (Unless that did come in todays patch?)

It doesn't matter about whether people have them now though, eventually people will. I like the idea that all units can have a niche. I hate the idea that any unit can do anything. Then there's no uniqueness to anything. Blergh.

Thing is though, they are going to keep on adding new units and new skills- even if someone spends thousands of pounds on a killer team today, the meta is going to constantly shift over the next year, with a slightly better skill potentially around the corner

Agree on matchmaking- I'm glad they are taking skills into account with the update (whenever it happens). I much prefer not having to fight the whale-tier teams but still want to get a reasonable amount of feathers.

Individuality- again, I see your point, but changing all of a units skills for top tier skills requires such a large amount of sacrificed high-level characters and SP that I'm OK with it. Let the whales worry about it, the vast majority of players aren't going to have the resources to sacrifice so many good units to make one killer unit, and the loss of individuality at least allows players to make more of their mark on a team. As opposed to what we have at the moment, which is a different loss of individuality that is adherence to tier lists and 'optimal' team setups that mean only a small fraction of the vast range of characters appear at the highest levels. I'm not sure what I want to face less, optimised skill teams or the same Takumi/Hector+co etc another thousand times.

I suppose it's a trade-off- allowing FTP players to tailor their favourite weaker units to gain strength rather than get bored, but also increasing the distance between whales and everyone else. Whales will always optimise, but we're already at a point where whale teams can hopelessly outclass FTP players relying on the luck of the draw.

 

[Zafir]

Some units are really shit though with the skills they were given. Being allowed to tweak their skills to your own preference is nice.

Imagine you are the biggest Jagen fan, he has 38 resistance but his special is Aegis, a defensive move. Now you can give him Iceberg or Glacies which gives him a damage boost special making him more formidable against mages.

Edit: Whoops DP.

I get that but there should be limits.

I just like characters having some uniqueness. Personal thing, not specific to this either I hated final fantasy xiis grid in the original version for the same reason.

 

[Syntsui]

It's not a good idea to waste the characters with good skills on trash characters though.

Of course this will balance itself in the long term when you have multiple copies of characters with good skills to sacrifice and it will also save the bad pulls from being complete bad.

 

[Alkez]

So how can I make Roy actually good?

I guess if you want to make him purely offensive you can give him life and death, draconic or something similar, and maybe threaten speed?

With speed up res down you would have 44/51/39/20/20, and seal def is nice for anything bulky.

I personally like him a little bulky so I'm giving mine speed +3 and iceberg. May not be the best set but it suits the way I like to play.

They just made this game Marvel vs Capcom 2.

LOL

 

[Firemind]

Yes, but it has to be from the same weapon type, and you can't move Unique Weapons. Best use is likely to move Brave weapons and Armor Slayers.

The one thing to note is that all Dragon's are considered to have the same weapon class, no matter their color.

Wait so you can give dragons Lightning Breath regardless of colour? And they will keep their colour?

 

[ggx2ac]

Thing is though, they are going to keep on adding new units and new skills- even if someone spends thousands of pounds on a killer team today, the meta is going to constantly shift over the next year, with a slightly better skill potentially around the corner

Agree on matchmaking- I'm glad they are taking skills into account with the update (whenever it happens). I much prefer not having to fight the whale-tier teams but still want to get a reasonable amount of feathers.

Individuality- again, I see your point, but changing all of a units skills for top tier skills requires such a large amount of sacrificed high-level characters and SP that I'm OK with it. Let the whales worry about it, the vast majority of players aren't going to have the resources to do that, and the loss of individuality at least allows players to make more of their mark on a team. As opposed to what we have at the moment, which is the loss of individuality that is adherence to tier lists and 'optimal' team setups that mean only a small fraction of characters appear at the highest levels.

I suppose it's a trade-off- allowing FTP players to tailor units to gain strength rather than get bored, but also increasing the distance between whales and everyone else. Thing is, were already at a point where whale teams can hopelessly outclass FTP players relying on the luck of the draw.

This is true, either the meta changes when they add new banner characters that you would have to obtain by paying money or, you can have a few primary heroes like I do and tweak their skills every once in a while to adjust to the meta so that I don't have to say goodbye to one level 50 character and then have to get another, and another, and another.

If only bonus heroes weren't necessary, I'd like to just have a 4-man primary team but instead it's 3-man since I have to add a different bonus hero every two weeks.

 

[redcrayon]

I get that but there should be limits.

I just like characters having some uniqueness. Personal thing, not specific to this either I hated final fantasy xiis grid in the original version for the same reason.

What I think would have been a nice compromise for the individuality that some posters want would have been if each character had one or two skill slots that were 'locked', and the skill slot couldn't be assigned to anything not on their initial list. Particularly if it was used for characterful stuff like tanky units with defence boosts, swordmaster units with speed boosts, characters with named legendary weapons like Lucina not being able to remove Falchion for a different high-level sword etc.

 

[ggx2ac]

What I think would have been a nice compromise for the individuality that some posters want would have been if each character had one or two skills that were 'locked', and the skill slot couldn't be assigned to anything else. Particularly the more characterful stuff like tanky units with defence boosts, swordmaster units with speed boosts, characters with named legendary weapons like Lucina not being able to remove Falchion etc.

There are already some restrictions.

You can't inherit the Falchion even if you are a sword user. You can't inherit dance or healing skills if you are none of those.

I can't get Nino to learn Drag Back which sucks because it would've been awesome.

 

[toastyToast]

What I think would have been a nice compromise for the individuality that some posters want would have been if each character had one or two skills that were 'locked', and the skill slot couldn't be assigned to anything else. Particularly the more characterful stuff like tanky units with defence boosts, swordmaster units with speed boosts, characters with named legendary weapons like Lucina not being able to remove Falchion etc.

That's what I was expecting. Either 1 you can add one skill or you get to fill up your empty slots at the most. Characters are going to become entirely different with the system. Stat sticks with another characters toolset.

Odin's on horseback for gods sake!

 

[redcrayon]

There are already some restrictions.

You can't inherit the Falchion even if you are a sword user. You can't inherit dance or healing skills if you are none of those.

I can't get Nino to learn Drag Back which sucks because it would've been awesome.

Cool stuff, definitely agree with those. Maybe it was a bit too much effort to give each character a single 'signature' skill like those they can't swap.

It's going to be fun looking at the monsters people create though, don't be shy gaf, post those abominations in here

 

[Firemind]

Tharja has Rauorblade+ and Darting Blow 3. So I can't let someone inherit all of these? Man that sucks.

 

[ggx2ac]

Here, can't inherit Tyrfing for example.

 

[redcrayon]

That's what I was expecting. Either 1 you can add one skill or you get to fill up your empty slots at the most. Characters are going to become entirely different with the system. Stat sticks with another characters toolset.

Odin's on horseback for gods sake!

Yeah, I thought inheritance would be empty slots only, and that was why everyone had empty slots at the start! That would have been an elegant way of allowing some tailoring but keeping the essential function of the character the same.

Not sure what you mean about Odin on horseback though? I thought he was infantry and movement type couldn't change (unless there's also a mounted version of him?).

 

[toastyToast]

Tharja has Rauorblade+ and Darting Blow 3. So I can't let someone inherit all of these? Man that sucks.

To inherit Darting Blow 3 you'd have to get 1 and 2. The 3 combined eats up all your transfers for the session.

Not sure what you mean about Odin on horseback though? I thought he was infantry and movement type couldn't change (unless there's also a mounted version of him?).

You can give his tome to Ursula making her a more mobile harder hitting Odin (with slightly worse defense).

 

[Draxal]

Yeah, I thought inheritance would be empty slots only, and that was why everyone had empty slots at the start! That would have been an elegant way of allowing some tailoring but keeping the essential function of the character the same.

Not sure what you mean about Odin on horseback though? I thought he was infantry and movement type couldn't change (unless there's also a mounted version of him?).

Give his weapon to Ursula.

 

[Calm Mind]

Here, can't inherit Tyrfing for example.

I just tried the same with my Eirika and Olivia.

 

[redcrayon]

Give his weapon to Ursula.

Ah, yes, I can see that 'add bonuses on unit to attack value ' combined with 'unit has bonuses when attacking' is a powerful, brutal synergy. Wowser.

 

[Firemind]

I can give Young Tiki Lightning Breath+, Death Blow 3, Renewal 3 and Threaten Attack 3. Woah.

 

[redcrayon]

How long has the game been out now, six weeks? It'll be interesting to see what it looks like in six months. That's why I don't get too hung up on these changes, the nature of these mobile games is that new stuff to toy with comes around fairly regularly.

They have the first year planned out apparently- I wonder how long it will run for?

 

[spiritfox]

I don't mind skill inheritance, but I don't like inheriting weapons too.

 

[kayos90]

Wow. They really went with the no bars hold version of the skill inheritence system huh..... This really is not good for the game. There needed to be some hard limitations and such.

 

[kewlmyc]

They just made this game Marvel vs Capcom 2.

This is surprisingly accurate.

I'm not going to go full ham on this yet, just do the obvious choices. For example, I just pulled a +Atk/-HP Takumi (finally), so you bet your ass I'm slapping Vantage on him. Same with Lyn and Lucina.

I was going to put Brave Lance+ on Effie, but that would mean I would have to sacrifice either my Cordelia or my Hinoka to do it, and my Effie isn't an ideal Effie (+Res/-Def) to take full advantage of them. That and I need good fliers to do the new Training quests.

Quick question though. Are there any self buff skills out there? I know of the +3 skills and whatnot, but those don't count as buffs I think (tell me if I'm wrong). Asking for the sake of my Nino.

Wow. They really went with the no bars hold version of the skill inheritence system huh..... This really is not good for the game. There needed to be some hard limitations and such.

There are some. You can't inherit special weapons/skills. The game would be truly busted then.

 

[ggx2ac]

I can give Young Tiki Lightning Breath+, Death Blow 3, Renewal 3 and Threaten Attack 3. Woah.

That's what I'm wondering about for my Female Corrin, already has lightning breath available but not lightning breath+ and, if I decided to use it, I'd need to add another 750 SP to my 1395 SP needed for skills.

Quick question though. Are there any self buff skills out there? I know of the +3 skills and whatnot, but those don't count as buffs I think (tell me if I'm wrong). Asking for the sake of my Nino.

You have Deathblow, Fury or, Life and Death to choose from although the latter two are passive skills I noticed.

I doubt you'd need Defiant Atk.

 

[kayos90]

This is going to make new banners absolutely arbitrary for the few as units are just statsticks as users on the thread had mentioned previously. This absolutely destroys the design paradigm of the game and just reeks laziness. There needed to be some restrictiosn such as you can only receive from the same unit type or color class. This is just... I don't even know how you can remedy this since people are already doing some stupid stuff with it. I really hope they realize they made a mistake and do something to fix this. Ideally rollback but... I'm sure whalers are whaling hard to make OP units....

There are some. You can't inherit special weapons/skills. The game would be truly busted then.

Game is still busted now....

 

[toastyToast]

Quick question though. Are there any self buff skills out there? I know of the +3 skills and whatnot, but those don't count as buffs I think (tell me if I'm wrong). Asking for the sake of my Nino.

A unit can't temporarily stat boost itself to take advantage of Gronnblade and the like. Needs to be from an ally.

 

[Mupod]

A unit can't temporarily stat boost itself to take advantage of Gronnblade and the like. Needs to be from an ally.

One exception - the Defiant self-buffs that activate at low hp. Haven't tested it with a Blade tome but they seem to work like rally buffs etc.

 

[ggx2ac]

A unit can't temporarily stat boost itself to take advantage of Gronnblade and the like. Needs to be from an ally.

Actually it can, Defiant Atk.

It's what Odin has that makes his attack stat so shit.

I wouldn't use it on Nino though, would rather use Deathblow.

Plus, Defiant Atk is like Hone attack, you won't be able to stack it so the 7+ attack is used.

 

[Zafir]

What I think would have been a nice compromise for the individuality that some posters want would have been if each character had one or two skill slots that were 'locked', and the skill slot couldn't be assigned to anything not on their initial list. Particularly if it was used for characterful stuff like tanky units with defence boosts, swordmaster units with speed boosts, characters with named legendary weapons like Lucina not being able to remove Falchion for a different high-level sword etc.

I mean that's pretty much what I was expecting to be honest. Would have much preferred it.

 

[toastyToast]

One exception - the Defiant self-buffs that activate at low hp. Haven't tested it with a Blade tome but they seem to work like rally buffs etc.

Oh right, of course. Don't think anything counts outside of those though.

 

[Firemind]

That's what I'm wondering about for my Female Corrin, already has lightning breath available but not lightning breath+ and, if I decided to use it, I'd need to add another 750 SP to my 1395 SP needed for skills.

I checked her SP and it's only 300. Too bad. My Kagero on the other hand has already accumulated a whopping 1100 SP lol

 

[Mupod]

As someone who hasn't used a unit with Vantage - I doubt it, but if you were to double the unit attacking you, do both attacks go off first?

Robin and Lucina are the core of my team, have an open B slot and Defiant Speed. I have two Lon'qus who can pass on Vantage 3 (he gets it at 4*), I'm debating whether to keep Defiant Speed or hook them up with Fury - it's being taken out of the matchmaking bonus points but it's still strong and easy to get with all these damn Hinatas. My +spd Robin with Fury and some buffs will instantly delete Takumi whether he has Vantage or not, no Bowbreaker needed. The health drain would eventually let Vantage activate allowing for shenanigans.

Anyways, it seems crazy right now but as long as matchmaking does properly take inherited skills into account we should be okay. The ultra whales are going to fight each other, and it lets those of us with many shit units and a few favorites work with what we have.

Although the Ursula Blarblade thing I mentioned a while back is totally doable and totally fucking busted. So I have to try it out. Really don't want to make a 5* Odin for it though, lol. It is funny how he seems made for inhertance, great skills and garbo stats.

 

[kewlmyc]

Game is still busted now....

Suppose, but I'm saying it could be way worse.

A unit can't temporarily stat boost itself to take advantage of Gronnblade and the like. Needs to be from an ally.

You have Deathblow, Fury or, Life and Death to choose from although the latter two are passive skills I noticed.

I doubt you'd need Defiant Atk.

Actually it can, Defiant Atk.

It's what Odin has that makes his attack stat so shit.

I wouldn't use it on Nino though, would rather use Deathblow.

Plus, Defiant Atk is like Hone attack, you won't be able to stack it so the 7+ attack is used.

Thanks for the advice. Sadly, for death blow 3, I would need to sacrifice my Effie or raise Hawkeye or Ursula to 5*. No thanks to both of those.

Guess I'll just focus on getting Vantage on everyone.

 

[toastyToast]

As someone who hasn't used a unit with Vantage - I doubt it, but if you were to double the unit attacking you, do both attacks go off first?

If you can double and have Vantage it goes you- > opponent -> you. I'm not sure how Desperation interacts with that though. If you have both you might be able to double first instantly

 

[kayos90]

Suppose, but I'm saying it could be way worse.







Thanks for the advice. Sadly, for death blow 3, I would need to sacrifice my Effie or raise Hawkeye or Ursula to 5*. No thanks to both of those.

Guess I'll just focus on getting Vantage on everyone.

Not sure how much I want to play Arena now.... just becomes lamer

 

[Mupod]

If you can double and have Vantage it goes you- > opponent -> you. I'm not sure how Desperation interacts with that though. If you have both you might be able to double first instantly

they're both B skills so not possible, but Lyn's weapon has Desperation built in. But it does specifically say 'initiates attack' so probably won't work.

Lyn would be a great unit for Vantage, but my Lyn is -atk trash.

 

[Technoweirdo]

As the local Insane Healer Main, some garbled thoughts and complaints:

• Non-mounted healers are currently fucked. Mounted healers may inherit the strongest buffs -- Hone/Fortify/Spur/Ward Cavalry -- to make them highly useful in specific comps while non-mounted healers are left with regular ones that just about any unit can use, including the mounted healers.
• Elise is probably the least desired of the mounted healers to keep simply due to her stat spread favoring Atk over Def/HP in a game that hates healers enough to halve their damage when all but two of them -- Lachesis (non-mounted) and Elise herself -- have the Atk to make it remotely work in the first place (though I should note Lachesis doesn't have the Spd) and that makes me sad. Now, I can see one balance reason behind it considering...
• Healer skillsets are 100% homogenous. This means a high Atk healer could make use of Absorb (Effectively permanently active Sol) and Live to Serve to shrug off any and all damage they sustain if they make it past enemy phase. It'd sound totally broken if not for the fact that Elise is one of the least durable units in the game while Lachesis's modestly higher durability over Elise doesn't really compensate for her lack of Spd plus the fact that Absorb has a laughable 4 Atk. Mind, if this were allowed, this'd be just one nearly broken thing in a sea of nearly-broken things like Close Counter, Brave Weapons, -blade tomes, Poison Dagger, Linde and so on. It really feels as if they took a sledgehammer to a nail that never needed hammering in the first place, making every healer needlessly bad to ensure not one of them gets to be good.
• Healer skillsets are 100% homogenous. There is now absolutely no reason to ever use Wrys unless he's your husbando.

More thoughts:

• Healers can't inhert Seal-type skills. This would've given them the ability to stack both Fear/Slow and Seal Atk/Spd in one attack which would've been really cool as their combat's nowhere near as good as ninjas or archer's currently. Sadly, nobody likes healers.
• Fury would've been swell for boosting a healer's precious defensive stats as they can shrug off the extra damage. Sadly, nobody likes healers.
• An attack special would've been a really unusual trade-off for a global buff or improved heal. Given how bad healers are at damaging, it would've given them a kill option with an unusual charge method. Sadly, nobody likes healers.
• If they intend on keeping healers at half damage forever, at least buff their buffs to 1.5x effectiveness or improve their range. Seriously, Gunter/Jagen/Reinhardt/Olwen do a better job of supporting when they're not even supposed to be support units, least of all Reinhardt with his Dire Thunder and high Atk. Somebody at IntSys likes healers, right?
• While they're at it, can healers actually be worth upgrading to 5*? They're the only class in the game that gains little from the upgrade. As 5* healers are right now, they're a troll 5* designed to screw you out of a 5* archer or ninja. Nobody likes pulling healers.

Despite all the flaws, I made Elise work in the arena and inheritance is only going to help her (Thanks, Gunter!), but I feel she and the rest of the healers could be doing so much more without breaking the game. :s

On a more hilarious note, I noticed Cecilia (and I'll assume MRobin) can inherit Triangle Adept. I wonder if it'll combo with the -raven spells for instant Taco Meat? lol

RE: Arena balance
I don't suppose they could implement a 'For Glory' arena where customs are restricted? Wouldn't mind a ' For Limited Fun' arena where customs are limited to open slots either.

 

[spiritfox]

So do the Flyer and Cavalry buffs affect the holder?

 

[kewlmyc]

The biggest bane to Inherit Skill right now is that the most broken combinations require either sacrificing most of your 5*s or have a shitton of feathers to boost certain units up to 5* since most of the broken weapons/skills require having a 5* with that weapon/skill. There a few exceptions (vantage, Fury), but they're the minority.

Other than making your favorite characters good at the sacrifice of most of your other good units, this really only affects whales, and the bigger whales at that. The ones you see with Level 50 characters because they've spent thousands on this game. And with the changes to Arena coming, they are going to be put in their own special hell where they only really fight other massive whales.

Is this balanced? No not really, but I do think it also helps out free players who just want to make their favorite units somewhat competitive.

 

[sense]

I am somewhat casual/intermediate with this game and don't put too much thought into stats and stuff and just go with the best characters as per the tier list and doing pretty well and now my head is starting to spin reading all this skill inheritance stuff lol.

 

[toastyToast]

Lyn would be a great unit for Vantage, but my Lyn is -atk trash.

could be worse. mine is -spd

her weapon is practically a vanilla sword

 

[kayos90]

The biggest bane to Inherit Skill right now is that the most broken combinations require either sacrificing most of your 5*s or have a shitton of feathers to boost certain units up to 5* since most of the broken weapons/skills require having a 5* with that weapon/skill. There a few exceptions (vantage, Fury), but they're the minority.

Other than making your favorite characters good at the sacrifice of most of your other good units, this really only affects whales, and the bigger whales at that. The ones you see with Level 50 characters because they've spent thousands on this game. And with the changes to Arena coming, they are going to be put in their own special hell where they only really fight other massive whales.

Is this balanced, no not really, but I do think it also helps out free players who just want to make their favorite units somewhat competitive.

While this might be a nice consolation the game is still broken at the fundamental level now because of this update. I'm not sure if it's too late but considering many hours have passed I don't think they can do a rollback. If they do there will be a definite shitstorm and every minute that passes by right now is numerous dollar they losing.

 

[explodet]

For the record, the requirements for these 10th Stratum Training Tower quests are absolute horseshit.
I love it.

Doesn't mean I'm actually going to do them, mind you.

 

[Technoweirdo]

So do the Flyer and Cavalry buffs affect the holder?

No. My now-sacrificed Lv. 40 Gunters can attest to that. lol

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I thought there was a notification to not do skill inheritance right away?