TaylorSwiftFan
Member
How is the deadlift more dangerous than the hang clean or the power clean?- YouTube
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Raven117
Member
There is a big difference between someone deadlifting 800 pounds, to someone deadlifting 135. In that clip, he talked about nfl dudes power cleaning which is just an explosive deadlift.
Getting stronger at a deadlift (within reason) is great for overall strength to normal people. That guy wasn’t talking to average people looking to get a bit stronger overall.
Raven117
Member
I’m assuming just more weight.
Raven117
Member
Man...step by step. Hopefully you can gain some energy back through this process.
As for your nutrition, you aren't getting enough protein. Flat out. A general rule of thumb (again...all this is general). is one gram of protein per 1 pound of body weight or 1.2-1.7 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day). Obviously, just do your best here. But nutrition is a key...KEY component in all of this. Its at least half the battle. I'd look to find as many cheap sources of protein as possible. (Cheap carbs are easy). Chicken breast, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, cheap canned tunafish, protein shakes tend to be what most lifters gravitate towards.
Fair enough on the squat. That and deadlift are very taxing. You are obviously training around what amounts as an injury. So yeah. Do what you can. A little bit is always better than nada. Machines. Depends. For you, that may just be what you can get to work. Overall, unless you are doing some isolation exercises at the end of a big free weight workout, they just aren't as effective. But you probably know that. If I were you, I would think about what are the biggest compound motions I can do, and do those. (Bench, Overhead press you are already doing). Then look at the biggest compound motions you can do on a machine, and then do those. Then, at the very end, think about some arm stuff. In your program...you aren't hitting your posterior chain very hard. (I was guilty of this for along time as well).
(Are you looking to get stronger or lose fat? Obviously that changes the analysis).
5x5 SL is pretty serious. Lots of reasons for a plateau, but its likely because you weren't eating enough and/or your form was suffering (I have had the same problem) You obviously know what you are doing here. I like the 3x8 rep range. A little strength, a little hypertrophy. For my big lifts, I go lower reps...but for most other stuff, I like 8-10.
Thanks for the reply, I have a few more questions!
1. Nutrition - I understand I need to be eating way more but as I am still figuring it out, how important is it right now? Due to my mental and physical health I just want to be more consistent and getting it right, will I still be making progress? I have started eating two eggs the morning after the workout.
2. I will look into squatting and deadlifting again eventually! Why are machines considered inferior, what do you mean by posterior chain? I am feeling more energetic now so I also do a few more exercises to hit the muscles. For triceps and biceps, I do the tricep extension and bicep arm curl machines. For chest I do the pec fly machine. They are not as prioritised as my main five but I'll try do at least two of them in a session.
3. I am looking to get bigger and stronger, fat loss can come later.
4. 5x5 SL was just grueling hence why I left it. As for setsxreps, still figuring it out but I am glad you think I am doing the right thing. I am adjusting it depending on how I feel about an exercises but ultimately with RiR in mind.
5. The number of exercises per muscle group. I have chosen to do full-body as it suits a three day workout well. However most guys who do the split go in and do multiple exercises per muscle group and they do them quite rapidly. I am doing some big compounds, and some compound-like machines, am I doing enough?
If there is some progress, I am not crashing as hard the next day and I have been going to the gym straight after work. On those days I am managing to complete my workout without feeling fatigued, honestly the only hardest bit right now is getting there. Sleep is still an issue but hopefully that will fix itself soon. Thanks!
Raven117
Member
1. Nutrition: As I said, nutrition is going to be at least half of your battle. If you are already struggling with energy levels (which will ultimately affect recovery), being in too far of a caloric deficit is not going to end well. That said, its not like you need to get this dialed in this freakin second. Just continue to work on it and improve. Two eggs aren't going to do much. You need to really try and focus on how much protein you require using online calculators (as a general guide), and work on figuring out how to get that. Protein powders, chicken breast, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, all that kind of stuff. Then fill in with fat and carbs. So, I would suggest focusing on a little bit at a time...Ie, first do protein...and work on getting more of it. Then start with the rest.
2. Lifts: Squats and Deadlifts work the most muscles in the body. They are huge compound movements that moves energy throughout your body (its why they are so tiring). There are other things you can do to fill in if you cant' do Squats or Deadlifts and you still want to work these, but it wont be AS effective. Machines, for the most part, don't allow for those big compound movements. The big lifts are the most efficent way to get stronger in the gym. The machines are good for some isolation work (and if you can't do one of the big compounds), but, if at all possible, shouldn't be how you hit primarily hit your muscle groups. Doing what you are doing, (ie, filling in a bit at the end of a workout), is the general wisdom of when to use them. So, its all good. Posteriour chain is hamstrings, glutes, back, and upper back. Getting this strong will make you strong.
3. Bigger/Stronger: Back to Nutrition. You need your protein dialed in. Two eggs isn't going to do enough. (Bigger/Stronger means at least maintance calories, but probably more).
4. 5x5. Whew. Yeah man 5x5 is very taxing. I subscribe to the school of thought of trying to do as little as possible to still see gains. If you are a beginner (Which most people are including me), 3x5 or 3x8 on the big 5 can work great. I would try and use a structured program though and not just wing it. Then take off what you can't due to your energy levels. I like Jeff Nippard's Fundamentals of Hypertrophy (a little more flexibility in the programming and substitutions), Mark Rippitoe's Starting Strength (strict in what it is trying to do with only one focus of strength in mind...for you, I think you need a bit of flexibility with some substituions available to you).
5. The Full Body is some good stuff. Really, its not until a little further in your training do you really need to start switching to push pull leg, or upper lower. But its really about what is working for you.
For me....I just went through a hypertrophy phase for the last 5 months. Put on about 22 pounds (obvioulsy some fat and some muscle). In about two more weeks, Im going to phase into a straight strength phase for probably about 3/4 months. See where that gets me. My squat is sad
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Ce'Nedra
Neo Member
Deadlift is way more lessive due low back and as already have been told, weight. Power clean and hang clean is a movement where you are using more muscles for the movement and the impact is not focusing on the lower body, but whole.
I've been going gym for 7-8 years and 3 of full crossfit (going gym now) and feel bored towards cardio unless I do full double unders. I was thinking to go back crossfit but... It's like 65 euros per month plus taking the car while the gym is in front of my house and costs me only 17 euros...
porkchopexpress
Member
I think he is sort of conflating 2 somewhat different things. Deadlifts are dangerous because most people don't have proper form and most people ego lift. Combine those two and you have a recipe for serious injury. NFL strength programs are focused on explosive lifts like cleans, snatches, box jumps, etc. Its also very difficult to ego lift a clean.
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porkchopexpress
Member
Felt particularly strong yesterday so decided to go for it and I was able to put up 315 for 3 on bench. I am actually really really pleasantly surprised by that. Not bad for 47 and for someone that up until 2021 had not touched a free weight in about 6 years.
1. Nutrition: As I said, nutrition is going to be at least half of your battle. If you are already struggling with energy levels (which will ultimately affect recovery), being in too far of a caloric deficit is not going to end well. That said, its not like you need to get this dialed in this freakin second. Just continue to work on it and improve. Two eggs aren't going to do much. You need to really try and focus on how much protein you require using online calculators (as a general guide), and work on figuring out how to get that. Protein powders, chicken breast, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, all that kind of stuff. Then fill in with fat and carbs. So, I would suggest focusing on a little bit at a time...Ie, first do protein...and work on getting more of it. Then start with the rest.
2. Lifts: Squats and Deadlifts work the most muscles in the body. They are huge compound movements that moves energy throughout your body (its why they are so tiring). There are other things you can do to fill in if you cant' do Squats or Deadlifts and you still want to work these, but it wont be AS effective. Machines, for the most part, don't allow for those big compound movements. The big lifts are the most efficent way to get stronger in the gym. The machines are good for some isolation work (and if you can't do one of the big compounds), but, if at all possible, shouldn't be how you hit primarily hit your muscle groups. Doing what you are doing, (ie, filling in a bit at the end of a workout), is the general wisdom of when to use them. So, its all good. Posteriour chain is hamstrings, glutes, back, and upper back. Getting this strong will make you strong.
3. Bigger/Stronger: Back to Nutrition. You need your protein dialed in. Two eggs isn't going to do enough. (Bigger/Stronger means at least maintance calories, but probably more).
4. 5x5. Whew. Yeah man 5x5 is very taxing. I subscribe to the school of thought of trying to do as little as possible to still see gains. If you are a beginner (Which most people are including me), 3x5 or 3x8 on the big 5 can work great. I would try and use a structured program though and not just wing it. Then take off what you can't due to your energy levels. I like Jeff Nippard's Fundamentals of Hypertrophy (a little more flexibility in the programming and substitutions), Mark Rippitoe's Starting Strength (strict in what it is trying to do with only one focus of strength in mind...for you, I think you need a bit of flexibility with some substituions available to you).
5. The Full Body is some good stuff. Really, its not until a little further in your training do you really need to start switching to push pull leg, or upper lower. But its really about what is working for you.
For me....I just went through a hypertrophy phase for the last 5 months. Put on about 22 pounds (obvioulsy some fat and some muscle). In about two more weeks, Im going to phase into a straight strength phase for probably about 3/4 months. See where that gets me. My squat is sad
Thanks for the reply. Right now still focusing on getting the actual exercises right but everything can come slowly, just worried how much more I can do given my age and how in the future I will have less time. It is really annoying seeing people with crappy diets and no plans making really quick gains in a month or so and here I am trying to still figure out the basics. Energy is returning bit by bit, I don't sleep as hard or as long after a workout. I can also finish my main exercises and add on a few more however it will be some more time before I move off the seated squatting machine. Unfortunately because I am on antidepressants and I am at a really big crossroad of my life, I sleep too much in general and will still feel generally tired throughout a day.
My last question is, am I doing enough volume to see consistent gains? I am starting to now see myself plateauing less which is positive but is 3x8-10 full body going to keep giving me growth? I see people doing the bro split and maybe doing 8-10 sets.
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porkchopexpress
Member
The science says that ~10-20 sets per week per muscle group is what you need to stimulate growth. It’s a little more complicated than that in terms of splits, how experienced you are, exercise selection, etc but here's some good discussions on the topic. (If you are really interested in the science of muscle growth, just youtube Brad Schoenfeld, there are few people alive that are more knowledgeable and have done more actual research on the topic than him.)
T Nation Content
Discover a more intelligent approach for getting bigger, stronger, and leaner.
www.t-nation.com
Brad Schoenfeld's 3 Evidence Based Guidelines of Hypertrophy Training | BarBend
When it comes to hypertrophy training, few know more on the topic than Brad Schoenfeld. Here are three guidelines for making the most out of your training.
barbend.com
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Raven117
Member
Porkchop posted some great stuff, and that seems to be the prevailing view on all of it.
I know its hard, but try not and worry about other people on this (I too have to tell myself this daily in the gym). They don't care about you, you shouldn't care about them.
3x8-10 is good for hypertrophy. That seems to be the sweet spot with some muscle growth and strength. (You could go heavier for strength...like 3x5-6 for bench, squat, etc.). But yeah. 3x8-10 hitting each body part between 10-20 sets per week is about right.
Another video for you.
The science says that ~10-20 sets per week per muscle group is what you need to stimulate growth. Its a little more complicated than that in terms of splits, how experienced you are, exercise selection, etc but here's some good discussions on the topic. If you are really interested in the science of muscle growth, just youtube Brad Schoenfeld, there are few people alive that are more knowledgeable and have done more actual research on the topic than him.
T Nation Content
Discover a more intelligent approach for getting bigger, stronger, and leaner.
Brad Schoenfeld's 3 Evidence Based Guidelines of Hypertrophy Training | BarBend
When it comes to hypertrophy training, few know more on the topic than Brad Schoenfeld. Here are three guidelines for making the most out of your training.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Anybody take pre workout? What's your opinions on it? I was looking into possibly taking it once in a while on my more lethargic days. Not something I would use before every workout.
DavidGzz
Gold Member
Waste of money. I buy a bottle of caffeine, 90 pills of 200mg each for 3-4 bucks. The main ingredient that even gives you energy is caffeine. You're paying like 20 times the price with pre workouts.
Xcell Miguel
Gold Member
I searched a bit a while ago to see how fast I was and from what I've read the norm is more like 16:00 (3.75 km/h) to 11:00 (5.46 km/h).My record pace for walking.
And i have question pace time for simple walking norm?
So an average of 9:00 is quite fast (6.7 km/h) and above the norm.
I know I walk fast, doing my Home to Work trip back and forth twice a day (4x 1.4 km) I'm walking at an average of 8:00/km (7.5 km/h).
A couple of years ago it did take me 14-16 minutes or so to go to work, now it's less than 12 minutes, using the exact same path. But when it's hot I tend to force me to walk slower.
MikeM
Member
Thats all I do. 16-20 sets per muscle group at least once a week. Throw in some drop sets etc and its enough
ÆMNE22A!C
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
My record pace for walking.
And i have question pace time for simple walking norm?
Yo! What is this? I walk a lot and relatively long. Woud be cool to have this
Pace.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone have adjustable weight recommendations that’s not the $420 bow flex set? I’m thinking of ending my gym membership and investing in some home workout stuff…now that spring is here I’m hardly even going for cardio at this point. Got my road bike back from the shop and want to be outside more…
porkchopexpress
Member
I'll just Quote Arnold on this:
“I’m not going to be that hard on you, please don’t be that hard on yourself. We all go through challenges, we all go through failure.
Sometimes life is a workout.
But the key thing is you get up. Just move a little, roll out of bed and do some pushups or go for a walk.
Just do something. One step at a time,
I hope you feel better and get back to the gym. But don’t beat yourself up, because that’s just useless talk. It doesn’t get you closer to the gym.”
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Raven117
Member
Like....in the middle of your training you now can't do this stuff...or you tried after some time off and can't manage bodyweight?
If you were in the middle of training (and able to do these things, but now can't), then you need to immediately stop and rest. (and potentially seek medical attention).
If you are just trying to get into it and you have found that ol'father time has slipped in more than you thought...then hey man...that's okay! You are primed for some newbie gains! Start slow. Step at a time. First...start with some full body workouts (and if you have to use dumbbells and not body weight push ups...so be it). Do this maybe twice a week for two weeks. Then up it to three. Do that for a bit...then add a bit of cardio.
You are obviously very much detrained. You need to ease back into this. Don't know how old you are...that affects things too.
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kvltus lvlzvs
Member
Anyone have experience with the ECA stack? Ive been on it for a bit but haven't lost much weight. I haven't really been tracking calories, though, which I will start doing soon. I dont need to lose too much, I just want to go from lowish 20's into highish 10's.
I will say, the ephedra has improved my lifts quite a bit.
Also, is anyone into tricking? I have strength training goals, primarily the arbitrary 1/2/3/4, but I think I want to start moving into more agility based fitness afterwards. Ive always been able to do Cartwheels and Macaco's easily, but would like to move into front/backflips and 540s. Really it is all because it just seems fun, and I do most of this fitness stuff because it is fun.
I will say, the ephedra has improved my lifts quite a bit.
Also, is anyone into tricking? I have strength training goals, primarily the arbitrary 1/2/3/4, but I think I want to start moving into more agility based fitness afterwards. Ive always been able to do Cartwheels and Macaco's easily, but would like to move into front/backflips and 540s. Really it is all because it just seems fun, and I do most of this fitness stuff because it is fun.
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k1m1d4n
Member
Hello friends. I have some questions and more than the answers I would also like to know your opinions and personal experiences.
In the end of April I was pushing 7 reps of 91kg in the bench press, value that is my all time best. Recently because of a "gastroenteritis"(?) I dropped 4kg (1,5 being muscle) from the weight I had at the time (77kg). Today as I was training I almost soiled myself trying to do 4x91 and I was supposed to be doing 5x93 according to my training plan. Does a difference in bodyweight make for such a difference in performance?
And how do you guys react when you are supposed to be lifting a certain weight and can't?
And has anyone of you ever been afraid to lift and failing?
Share your thoughts and experiences please.
In the end of April I was pushing 7 reps of 91kg in the bench press, value that is my all time best. Recently because of a "gastroenteritis"(?) I dropped 4kg (1,5 being muscle) from the weight I had at the time (77kg). Today as I was training I almost soiled myself trying to do 4x91 and I was supposed to be doing 5x93 according to my training plan. Does a difference in bodyweight make for such a difference in performance?
And how do you guys react when you are supposed to be lifting a certain weight and can't?
And has anyone of you ever been afraid to lift and failing?
Share your thoughts and experiences please.
Raven117
Member
Man, I think you are just getting over your gastronenteritis. How long ago was that illness? GI issues can make your whole constitution weak for a little bit.
I'd focus on getting your diet back in check. Letting your body soak back up nutrients, and see where you are in about two weeks.
That said...absolutely drops in body weight can affect your ability to lift heavy weights.
Its a bit deflating not to be able to lift the weight you have planned, but I try not to let it get to me too much (though it sometimes does). This stuff really is a marathon. Not a sprint. Progress is tracked over many months to years...
Of course I've been afraid. Hell...almost everytime I get under a squat bar the fear is there. What's the worst that can happen?
Raven117
Member
I have never heard of milk killing the purpose of a protein shake....
Peanut butter alone is not a great choice. You are going to want energy. So, protein shake (or something like it), and some carbs (like an apple or banana) is going to be an overall better choice for a "prework out"
Don Carlo
Member
Can you share your prework out?
Raven117
Member
I don’t claim to know a whole lot about prework out. I don’t take those supplements (though some folks seem to like them).
For me. I keep it simple. Chug some water. A scoop of whey protein and a banana. Afterwards, protien and branch chain amino acids. (Then try and eat well within a few hours).
Some dudes like adding like a half a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to their prework out.
Don Carlo
Member
That's nice
Don Carlo
Member
YouTube bodybuilding starJoesthetics ‘dies from aneurysm’, aged 30
Fitness influencer’s girlfriend paid tribute to Lindner, adding she was ‘heartbroken’
www.independent.co.uk
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Guy seemed like a great guy. He was always positive and giving advice on YouTube etc. Unlike Logan Paul I never heard anyone say anything bad about himYouTube bodybuilding starJoesthetics ‘dies from aneurysm’, aged 30
Fitness influencer’s girlfriend paid tribute to Lindner, adding she was ‘heartbroken’
What a way to go and so young
RIP man
JimmyRustler
Member
Anyone else got experience with DMAA? That stuff is wild. Ever since the original Jack3d got banned I wanted to try this once and now I finally did. Man… The training is as crazy as the crash after. I mean literally… 10/10 training, 10/10 crash. Dunno if I should recommend it or warn other from it.
Aces High
Gold Member
A preworkout meal should consist of easily digestable carbs, a small amount of healthy fats and lean protein. An example for a great preworkout meal would be rice, chicken and avocado 90 minutes before you go to the gym.
Adding some fats to your preworkout meal is recommended, because it will slow down the rate at which the carbs are digested. This will result in a steady flow of glycogen to your muscles.
In theory, slow carbs like oats would also allow for a steady release of glycogen, but in practice it will give many people bloating problems due to the high amount of fibre. It's not nice to train with a bloated stomach.
Peanutbutter itself isn't very healthy. If you're more on the sweet side try almond butter instead. Cream of rice can be great alternative to rice if you prefer a sweet preworkout meal.
Whey protein shakes are great for getting an insulin spike postworkout. Adding low fat milk won't have a negative impact on that. Always add fast carbs to your postworkout meal for maximum effect. My postworkout meal is cream of rice, whey and strawberrys. If you don't have access to cream of rice, just use corn flakes or rice crispies.
Aces High
Gold Member
This is a complex one. Of course, less muscle equals to less strength, but (and this is a big BUT) strength comes from biomechanics and neural programming first and foremost. That's why a trained female weightlifter can easily outlift men who have much more muscle mass and much higher testosterone levels.
It is imperative that your body is well hydrated and your glycogen storages are full when you work out. You achieve that with proper pre- and intra-workout nutrition. Sleep and stress also play a big role for your performance.
Also keep in mind that many hobby lifters struggle to reach peak performance in their first exercise of the day. This is because they don't manage to activate their sympathetic nervous system which enables your high performance fight or flight mode. Switching on this "beast mode" makes a tremendous difference. For me, mind focus, quick breathing and aggressive music (like Bodycount - Black Hoodie) does the trick.
In the end, it's important to know what your goals are. Do you want to get big muscles (bodybuilding) or do you want to become strong (powerlifting)? Both goals require completely different approaches. For bodybuilding, the weight you move is secondary.
k1m1d4n
Member
Thanks for the reply.
Right now I changed my routine a little and while keeping the same exercises I dropped the weight and increased the reps. I'll keep it like this for a month and then decide if I'll go back to strength training or play a little bit more in bodybuilding territory. I also added a banana every morning before training to add some fuel as I was training almost with an empty stomach.
I guess in the end what I want is everything everywhere at same time. Muscles, strength and 10% body fat all within 180cm 75kg.
This is an impossible goal and the sooner I accept it the happier I will be with the results I have
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Aces High
Gold Member
Training early in the morning isn't easy because it requires some preparation to be effective:
Make sure to eat a big carb-heavy meal the evening before training. This will make a huge difference for your performance. Get up at least 1 hour before training. So if you start training at 6 am, you have to get your preworkout meal at 5 am. If you can't do this, you're hetter off training at a different time. Drink at least 500 ml water directly after waking up. 1000 ml is even better. Add salt to your preworkout meal. Pink himalayan salt is recommended. A banana is not an effective preworkout meal. Intra-workout nutrition is recommended to people who have a history of going hypo.
Many people are stuck in that strength vs muscles limbo where they don't make real progress. And from my experience, most of them are super happy once they ditch the strength aspect and get great results fast with true hypertrophy training.
k1m1d4n
Member
Once again thank you very much for your help.
In your experience what would be an effective pre-workout?
As for intra-workout, that wouldn't be an issue as I was accustomed to training "empty".
My workout session usually consists in 4 compound lifts paired in 2 supersets in a ±50-60 minutes session
(Bench press x squats + calf raises)
(Over head press x barbell row)
4 sets of 10 - 3 times a week
Aces High
Gold Member
Preworkout:
Rice or cream of rice for carbs. Chicken, tuna or egg whites for protein. Avocado, extra virgine olive oil, coconut oil or almond butter for fats. Don't rely too much on powder.
Do you go to the gym or do you workout at home?
k1m1d4n
Member
Home gym client
Aces High
Gold Member
If you are interested in becoming more muscular, I would recommend you to get a pair of dumbbells so you can alternate between barbell and dumbbell movements. Workout A you could do incline barbell presses and workout B you could do flat dumbell presses. Same for rows.
You could also use the dumbbells for isolation exercises like biceps curls, hammer curls, triceps extensions and side lateral raises. Don't expect to get big arms if you don't train them.
What's missing in your routine are vertical pull movements like pullups and chinups and a hip hinge movement like romanian deadlifts.
A gym would of course give you machines and cables, which can make things easier.
You could also use the dumbbells for isolation exercises like biceps curls, hammer curls, triceps extensions and side lateral raises. Don't expect to get big arms if you don't train them.
What's missing in your routine are vertical pull movements like pullups and chinups and a hip hinge movement like romanian deadlifts.
A gym would of course give you machines and cables, which can make things easier.
I was forced to take a long break from working out due to a knee injury (I’m 44). When I got back I was greeted with weakness and nausea. I hated the gym and felt no desire to go. It would literally piss me off just going is the win.
Or are you meaning that your body isn’t holding muscle like it used to? In that case it’s time to go to the doctor or clinic and get you testosterone checked. Can happen as early as 30.
k1m1d4n
Member
I'm really sorry but I forgot to add that on Saturdays I do a deadlift routine.
Regular deadlift, sumo deadlift and barbell shrugs mixed with weighted pull ups on a bar and weighted dips on the rings. But I'll definitely add the Romanian ones as those look super effective
RavageX
Member
Its the first one, I had gotten back and fallen off again. Life has thrown several things at me that just seem to keep breaking my will. Just dont have the discipline i used to.
Excuses, but they are keeping me down for sure.
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