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[Brolic Gaoler]

He is 6'5 and 290lbs.

Those numbers aren't just mediocre, they are pitiful for 2 years of effort.

Let that sink in. This guy weighs 290lbs, and in 2 years squats 315. I've been lifting for 6 months, and squat nearly the same. And you're benching your body weight after 2 years. Impressive *eyeroll* Yeah, that no program thing is working out great.

I was not expecting this turn of events.

With the numbers he posted I was expecting another "skinny guy average guy."

2 years, those numbers are indeed "not good" and that's putting it nicely.

I wasn't going to be "a dick" about him, but when you posted those stats, well, that really shocked me.

Any lurkers here, or people who seldom post. This guy is an example of what not to do if you're looking to make progress in a timely manner.

My point wasn't that I'm the fucking badass be all end all when I first posted in this thread. It was to say that you could make very good gains comparable to those of people who do follow strict regimented sets/reps as long as you know the core lifts, do them with strict form, eat right, and stick with it. But I guess I'm a chump. I'm done here. God forbid someone advocates doing something besides the Rippetoe starting strength program or the zealots will jump down your throat telling you how wrong you are

Your point was to completely discredit programs designed by people who know a great deal about the human body, and how to accomplish great things in the field of lifting.

In the process you made it clear that you think you know better than they/we do.

Now that your stats are out, we can see what a joke this is.

Shifting to a new topic -- any Intermittent Fasting followers use the Two Pre-Workout Meal protocol?

I leave my house every work day at 6:30 AM and don't walk into the door until 6 PM -- so the above protocol seems to be the best choice. 1:30 PM I break my fast, then around 6 PM I have my pre-workout meal and then at 8-9 PM when I get back from the gym I have my largest meal.

Currently I am hovering around 190 after I peaked at 193 around Thanksgiving. I am looking to Recomp although in the LeanGains Guide it doesn't say anything specific regarding over calories for Recomp as opposed to Fat-Loss or Clean Bulk -- he says that will be in his book eventually.


Anybody know more about what LG Recomp entails? I assume the +20% workout day calories with 75% carbs/25% fats and then -20% on rest days with 50% carbs/50% fats is similar for Recomp, Fat-Loss, or Clean Bulk but only calories are manipulated.

I guess Recomp just = Maintenance calories but just incase .. want to be sure.

I don't know how you guys do that stuff, my hat is off to you. I like to eat when I feel like eating, haha.

 

[Petrie]

I was not expecting this turn of events.

With the numbers he posted I was expecting another "skinny guy average guy."

2 years, those numbers are indeed "not good" and that's putting it nicely.

I wasn't going to be "a dick" about him, but when you posted those stats, well, that really shocked me.

Any lurkers here, or people who seldom post. This guy is an example of what not to do if you're looking to make progress in a timely manner.

Im not being a dick. I simply want it to be very clear to newcomers that his advice is seriously misguided.

He can do whatever he likes, but when he tries to pas it off to others, I feel the need to intervene.

 

[Munin]

There's the problem. Your results are not comparable. At all. Your results are absolute shit. You are 2 years in and guys on SS for 6 months are blowing past you. You're trying to make a point that is blatantly false, and your own experience proves it so.




Bro, if you are 290lbs and only putting up those numbers, you must be more fat than anything.



This.

I would just like to quickly jump in and say that statements like this and in particular the way they are phrased are probably what are keeping a lot of newbies from posting in this thread.

While I do not necessarily agree with Dysun regarding the topic at hand he is pretty right that this thread for the most part consists of the same 4-5 posters congratulating each other for their gains gained through SS and god forbid somebody suggests a different approach.

Then suddenly "your results are absolute shit".

I would bet my grandma that if Dysun had said he had been on SS all along nobody would have flamed him so harshly. You really have to call his work "pitiful" and "absolute shit"?

 

[Draft]

Just because you didnt follow someone elses plan doesn't mean you didnt have a plan. It's not like I walked in to the gym and decided I'm gonna do random shit

That was the impression I got from your earlier posts. But sure, you can design a program yourself. It's just, standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

 

[Luscious LeftFoot]

wow... what the hell happened here?

 

[abuC]

Calling bullshit, you can't build bi's without working them. That also means he wouldn't be doing any back or leg work, yeah right.

I agree with you on his diet and everything being bullshit, but if he's doing body weight training he can build biceps with pull-ups.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Im not being a dick. I simply want it to be very clear to newcomers that his advice is seriously misguided.

He can do whatever he likes, but when he tries to pas it off to others, I feel the need to intervene.

I wasn't referencing you. I was referencing him. I was quoting you to add to your observation.

I would just like to quickly jump in and say that statements like this and in particular the way they are phrased are probably what are keeping a lot of newbies from posting in this thread.

While I do not necessarily agree with Dysun regarding the topic at hand he is pretty right that this thread for the most part consists of the same 4-5 posters congratulating each other for their gains gained through SS and god forbid somebody suggests a different approach.

Then suddenly "your results are absolute shit".

I would bet my grandma that if Dysun had said he had been on SS all along nobody would have flamed him so harshly. You really have to call his work "pitiful" and "absolute shit"?

Actually, we would have asked him if he added to/altered the program.

This has happened before, countless times. His gains for 2 years of work are not indicative of following a good program.

This forum is accepting of new members all the time. It's when people come in here acting like they know more than everyone else (including the "greats") they are gonna get the "treatment."

He brought this on himself by being a snarky know it all, no one was giving him a hard time until that happened.

 

[Draft]

wow... what the hell happened here?

The divine Rippetoe was besmirched and his acolytes did rise up in anger.

 

[Petrie]

I would just like to quickly jump in and say that statements like this and in particular the way they are phrased are probably what are keeping a lot of newbies from posting in this thread.

While I do not necessarily agree with Dysun regarding the topic at hand he is pretty right that this thread for the most part consists of the same 4-5 posters congratulating each other for their gains gained through SS and god forbid somebody suggests a different approach.

Then suddenly "your results are absolute shit".

I would bet my grandma that if Dysun had said he had been on SS all along nobody would have flamed him so harshly. You really have to call his work "pitiful" and "absolute shit"?

There isn't another way to phrase it to make it very clear to newcomers not to follow this guy's advice. If he said he was on SS all along, I'd be asking why his numbers remain so low, given that the program is designed to always be increasing your lifts. It needs to be made very clear to newcomers that a well-designed program is the absolute best thing for beginners, and that doing otherwise they will see minimal gains, much like Dysun.

I wasn't referencing you. I was referencing him. I was quoting you to add to your observation.

I just wanted to make it clear I wasn't trying to be a dick, just feel the point needs to be made abundantly clear.

wow... what the hell happened here?

Dyson tried to say you can get similar results without following a program. He was wrong.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I would just like to quickly jump in and say that statements like this and in particular the way they are phrased are probably what are keeping a lot of newbies posting in this thread.

While I do not necessarily agree with Dysun regarding the topic at hand he is pretty right that this thread for the most part consists of the same 4-5 posters congratulating each other for their gains gained through SS and god forbid somebody suggests a different approach.

Then suddenly "your results are absolute shit".

I would bet my grandma that if Dysun had said he had been on SS all along nobody would have flamed him so harshly. You really have to call his work "pitiful" and "absolute shit"?

They may have gone a little overboard with their statements but I blame it on his attitude towards strength programs. Even shogun said he doesn't follow a single program but acknowledged their merit. To come in here and act as if the advice we are giving people is garbage because he did something different, and didn't get great results, is a little silly.

Look at other newcomers, no one makes fun of their gains. We all have to begin somewhere. I am a firm believer in sacrificing weight for form and would encourage any beginner to start with all their barbell lifts at 45 lbs to get the basics down first. If that same guy comes in here two years later and has made crappy gains and says that the programs experts have put out there are not necessary or overrated then he would deserve to be put down a peg or two.

Note to beginners:

People in here want to help you get stronger and are willing to help you out. You can take our opinion with a grain of salt, and deservedly so, but at the same time help yourself out! Look up different programs on your own and do your own research! We are here to help you out with any questions and tons of anecdotal advice on what worked and what didn't for us.

 

[Luscious LeftFoot]

The divine Rippetoe was besmirched and his acolytes did rise up in anger.

...and the wicked shall be punished!

Happens every time, people should know better.

 

[IceCold]

Ok let's change the topic here.

I have a question about SS. There is a version of it on bodybuilding.com website that adds 2x8 dips on workout A and 2x8 pull ups on workout B. I've always been confused about the difference between chin-ups and pull-ups (if there is even a difference at all).

So when they say pull ups do they mean this? :

Or do they mean the one where your palms are facing you? I know that if you do it like the guy in the gif does it but with your arms more extended, you're doing your lats more whereas doing them with your palms facing you, and closer together will do biceps more. So which one should be done in this case?

 

[Draft]

Ok let's change the topic here.

I have a question about SS. There is a version of it on bodybuilding.com website that adds 2x8 dips on workout A and 2x8 pull ups on workout B. I've always been confused about the difference between chin-ups and pull-ups (if there is even a difference at all).

So when they say pull ups do they mean this? :

Or do they mean the one where your palms are facing you? I know that if you do it like the guy in the gif does it but with your arms more extended, you're doing your lats more whereas doing them with your palms facing you, and closer together will do biceps more. So which one should be done in this case?

Chin ups: palms facing in.

Pulls ups: palms facing away.

Do both. Alternate them.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

That's a pullup, chin ups are usually referring to palms facing you.

 

[MrToughPants]

The divine Rippetoe was besmirched and his acolytes did rise up in anger.

BRB reading SS and putting on 50lbs of dry muscle.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Ok let's change the topic here.

I have a question about SS. There is a version of it on bodybuilding.com website that adds 2x8 dips on workout A and 2x8 pull ups on workout B. I've always been confused about the difference between chin-ups and pull-ups (if there is even a difference at all).

So when they say pull ups do they mean this? :

Or do they mean the one where your palms are facing you? I know that if you do it like the guy in the gif does it but with your arms more extended, you're doing your lats more whereas doing them with your palms facing you, and closer together will do biceps more. So which one should be done in this case?

That dude's calves rival mine. THIS WILL NOT STAND!

 

[MjFrancis]

I agree with you on his diet and everything being bullshit, but if he's doing body weight training he can build biceps with pull-ups.

I don't have Herschel Walker biceps, but I haven't done a barbell curl all year and added some muscle to my arms via pull-ups and chin-ups. I could believe someone if they said they built respectable biceps this way, but it would definitely take a while longer. It should be noted I don't take the Herschel Walker kool-aid, though I doubt any of us take him at face value, even if there is a grain of truth in his shenanigans.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I agree with you on his diet and everything being bullshit, but if he's doing body weight training he can build biceps with pull-ups.

Definitely but the article says all he does is pushups and crunches.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I don't have Herschel Walker biceps, but I haven't done a barbell curl all year and added some muscle to my arms via pull-ups and chin-ups. I could believe someone if they said they built respectable biceps this way, but it would definitely take a while longer. It should be noted I don't take the Herschel Walker kool-aid, though I doubt any of us take him at face value, even if there is a grain of truth in his shenanigans.

God damn it, now I want some lemon lime koolaid.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

If I weighed 290, I'd be squatting and benching over 400 pounds.

But Archer and myself do not like that look. We are chisled.

 

[MrToughPants]

Anyone heard of Herschel Walker, some former NFL star and now MMA guy?

He only eats one meal a day, which is a soup and a salad. very little protein:
http://www.zimbio.com/Herschel+Walk...Herschel+Walker+Diet+Workout+Push+ups+Routine
And only does body weight workouts.. wtf how can he be so ripped by just doing all that shit? He does do a lot though everyday:
* 750 to 1,500 Pushups
* 2,000 to 3,500 Situps

Still, I don't get it. may be hes got good genes.

Or maybe he is bipolar.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Doing 1,000 push ups everyday would be so damn boring.

 

[Mr.City]

Not to keep the hate train rolling, but really, you do need an intelligent program to progress. There's always intuitive training, however that's best left to someone who has been training for several years already.

290 at 6'5 with a squat of 315 is no great shakes. I squatted 335x5x3 at a bodyweight of 240ish before in less time on SS. Let's get real here, folks; many of you don't know how to program or how to lift. Before anyone gets their dick in a twist here, this is aimed at not just many posters, but at many of the lurkers who may or may not be registered posters on this board. If you got to ask, then you already know which category you fall into. You need a plan if you want to do this right. Starting Strength (aka the novice lifting program), Justin Lascek's S/C program, and the Greyskull LP are all good programs for beginners.

I really don't know why you want to dick around with since time is a precious commodity you don't get back.

 

[rage1973]

Shifting to a new topic -- any Intermittent Fasting followers use the Two Pre-Workout Meal protocol?

I leave my house every work day at 6:30 AM and don't walk into the door until 6 PM -- so the above protocol seems to be the best choice. 1:30 PM I break my fast, then around 6 PM I have my pre-workout meal and then at 8-9 PM when I get back from the gym I have my largest meal.

Currently I am hovering around 190 after I peaked at 193 around Thanksgiving. I am looking to Recomp although in the LeanGains Guide it doesn't say anything specific regarding over calories for Recomp as opposed to Fat-Loss or Clean Bulk -- he says that will be in his book eventually.


Anybody know more about what LG Recomp entails? I assume the +20% workout day calories with 75% carbs/25% fats and then -20% on rest days with 50% carbs/50% fats is similar for Recomp, Fat-Loss, or Clean Bulk but only calories are manipulated.

I guess Recomp just = Maintenance calories but just incase .. want to be sure.

I had my option of doing my workout after work or during my lunch at 1 and I went with the latter. I tried both for a bit and I preferred working out during my fast which was completely different from what I thought I would have preferred.

 

[Ripclawe]

well i am doing the madcow 5x5 and seeing some strength growth in the 5th week, not as fast as its going on the spreadsheet but still seeing gains and losing some weight..

 

[abuC]

I had my option of doing my workout after work or during my lunch at 1 and I went with the latter. I tried both for a bit and I preferred working out during my fast which was completely different from what I thought I would have preferred.

Yeah, I just started doing workouts while fasting and it's not as bad as I thought it would be. I just drink a lot more water than I used to, and after Im done with the workout I end up feeling full, it's kind of weird. I can already feel a difference in my waist in just 4 days.

Today though, I did a warrior diet fast by accident, skipped out on breakfast and went to the gym around 4, ended up eating only one meal at 5 ish. I already know what Im eating tomorrow for breakfast, 4 eggs, turkey sausage, whole wheat toast, pancakes and some OJ...can't wait.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

well i am doing the madcow 5x5 and seeing some strength growth in the 5th week, not as fast as its going on the spreadsheet but still seeing gains and losing some weight..

If you're doing madcow you should probably be eating more calories :/

 

[reilo]

I rewatched the Rippetoe hip thrust video from a couple pages ago and focused on that while squatting today. The hip thrust motion when coming out of the squat seems to take a lot of pressure off of your back since you it forces you to keep tight. Feels good.

Link to the video?

 

[Mr.City]

Link to the video?

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/ssbbt3_learning_to_press
http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/platform_the_olympic_press_with_tommy_suggs

 

[reilo]

Shifting to a new topic -- any Intermittent Fasting followers use the Two Pre-Workout Meal protocol?

I leave my house every work day at 6:30 AM and don't walk into the door until 6 PM -- so the above protocol seems to be the best choice. 1:30 PM I break my fast, then around 6 PM I have my pre-workout meal and then at 8-9 PM when I get back from the gym I have my largest meal.

I've been doing the Two Meal protocol for almost two weeks now almost exactly like yours except I have my pre-workout meal between 4:30-5p.

I can't provide any concrete anecdotal evidence so far, but I'll keep at it for two months at least and see how it goes.

 

[abuC]

I've been doing the Two Meal protocol for almost two weeks now almost exactly like yours except I have my pre-workout meal between 4:30-5p.

I can't provide any concrete anecdotal evidence so far, but I'll keep at it for two months at least and see how it goes.

You should try eating after your workout.

 

[reilo]

You should try eating after your workout.

That's what I said?

I eat at noon or 1pm, then 4:30p, then workout, then have my largest meal of the day after 8p.

 

[abuC]

That's what I said?

I eat at noon or 1pm, then 4:30p, then workout, then have my largest meal of the day after 8p.

You have a pre-workout meal, no?


I meant a fast through your workout, where the first meal you eat all day is the one after the workout.

 

[rage1973]

Yeah, I just started doing workouts while fasting and it's not as bad as I thought it would be. I just drink a lot more water than I used to, and after Im done with the workout I end up feeling full, it's kind of weird. I can already feel a difference in my waist in just 4 days.

Today though, I did a warrior diet fast by accident, skipped out on breakfast and went to the gym around 4, ended up eating only one meal at 5 ish. I already know what Im eating tomorrow for breakfast, 4 eggs, turkey sausage, whole wheat toast, pancakes and some OJ...can't wait.

I just make sure I drink 10 g of BCAA before the workout and I am good.
I also tried doing some HIIT while fasting but that didn't work out too well.
I was completely winded in about half the time that it would usually take.
So does that mean you don't fast on non training days?

 

[reilo]

You have a pre-workout meal, no?


I meant a fast through your workout, where the first meal you eat all day is the one after the workout.

That would require me not to eat until 8 or 9 pm. Completely unfeasible considering I work a regular 9-6. I can do that if I workout on the weekends at noon, but not during the regular work week (which I did exactly that last Saturday and my workout went great).

 

[abuC]

I just make sure I drink 10 g of BCAA before the workout and I am good.
I also tried doing some HIIT while fasting but that didn't work out too well.
I was completely winded in about half the time that it would usually take.
So does that mean you don't fast on non training days?

So far I've done fasting everyday even on the day I didn't lift, I think I might do it every other week though since I'd like to do some sprinting and that won't happen on an empty stomach. Today I did a warrior diet by accident, it's really no fun, I haven't eaten since around 5, and by the time I eat next it'll probably be around 18 hours with no food or 38 hours with just 1 meal.

 

[abuC]

That would require me not to eat until 8 or 9 pm. Completely unfeasible considering I work a regular 9-6. I can do that if I workout on the weekends at noon, but not during the regular work week (which I did exactly that last Saturday and my workout went great).

Yeah, that would be rough, my schedule allows me to get away with it.

 

[Munin]

So far I've done fasting everyday even on the day I didn't lift, I think I might do it every other week though since I'd like to do some sprinting and that won't happen on an empty stomach. Today I did a warrior diet by accident, it's really no fun, I haven't eaten since around 5, and by the time I eat next it'll probably be around 18 hours with no food or 38 hours with just 1 meal.

Are the benefits of doing it this way really that big? I don't know I just would find no more joy in life or food with something like this.

 

[abuC]

Are the benefits of doing it this way really that big? I don't know I just would find no more joy in life or food with something like this.

I'm 6"1 254lbs (17% bf) and have been bulking for a full year, I need to lose some weight since its a lot of pressure on my knees. I think this method will have the quickest results, it's just mind over body. From what I understand this is an excellent way to lose fat while retaining muscle.

 

[TheKaeptain]

What's the warrior diet?

 

[Lamel]

Kind of concerning with the posts on the last page. Word to beginners, do not feel intimidated by the people in this thread, they achieved numbers after working out a long time. We all start somewhere! So if anyone is hesitant, don't be!

 

[abuC]

What's the warrior diet?

One very large meal at night, some people eat fruits and snacks throughout the day, others just fast completely until their next meal.

 

[BlueScrote]

Is it normal to be sore in the shoulders and lower neck area after dead lifting?

Normally my back/legs are sore the day afterwards, but I don't remember my shoulders being as sore as they are today. I'm hoping it's not indicative of poor form.

I'm using double overhand grip, if it matters.

 

[JB1981]

Is it normal to be sore in the shoulders and lower neck area after dead lifting?

Normally my back/legs are sore the day afterwards, but I don't remember my shoulders being as sore as they are today. I'm hoping it's not indicative of poor form.

I'm using double overhand grip, if it matters.

Probably in shoulders but not too much in neck. Make sure when you raise your chest you are not putting your neck in a compromised position. You get hurt that way. Chest up, eyes forward or down a little. Don't raise your neck with your chest.

 

[kevo_huevo]

so a friend of mine is on day two of a "liquid diet." now, i don't know the extent of his diet/exercise regimen/goals, but trying to think of a way that tactfully explains this is a bad idea and doing more harm than good to his body.

without much thought, i want to tell him liquid diets are robbing him of essential carbs and protein (i'm just assuming he's staying active with sports/martial arts and some strength training), and that he can still eat things he likes...i was just wondering what you guys thought his percentages for his macros should be, and just thoughts on fasting/dieting in general. if i had to guess, he's probably 6' and about 190, maybe around the 20% bf area.

thanks guys.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Is it normal to be sore in the shoulders and lower neck area after dead lifting?

Normally my back/legs are sore the day afterwards, but I don't remember my shoulders being as sore as they are today. I'm hoping it's not indicative of poor form.

I'm using double overhand grip, if it matters.

No, it kind of sounds like you may have went too heavy and ended up using more shoulder/upper back than needed (like you ended up trying to shrug it.)

But I'm just spitballing.

The best thing to remember when deadlifting is that you're driving with your heals and bringing the weight straight back into your body to lock out. So in effect you're simply "leaning back" with the weight dragging it up your shins, knees, and thighs, then back down in reverse.. Think of it that way, not that you're bringing the weight up.

 

[Mr.City]

I'm 6"1 254lbs (17% bf) and have been bulking for a full year, I need to lose some weight since its a lot of pressure on my knees. I think this method will have the quickest results, it's just mind over body. From what I understand this is an excellent way to lose fat while retaining muscle.

How is being 17% bf hard on the knees?

 

[abuC]

How is being 17% bf hard on the knees?

I have structural flaws in my right knee, I've torn the meniscus in it when I was younger and have early arthritis in it as well. It's too much weight for my knee to bear and I'd like to start playing basketball a bit. No matter what my bf % is 254lbs is way too much for my height and what I'd like to do.

I'm willing to sacrifice muscle to be lighter and have less pressure on it.

 

[MjFrancis]

How much weight did you gain over the course of the year? I'm supposing that it could have been too much too fast, and your body was not conditioned for such a thing. I'm glad you're open about the bodyfat measurement being less than accurate, because if you are at 17% bodyfat that's 43 pounds of fat and at about 10% you would be a ripped 230lbs. That's 24 pounds away from being a Greek god personified, especially at 6'1. Not unfeasible by any means, but definitely advanced or elite.

 

[abuC]

How much weight did you gain over the course of the year? I'm supposing that it could have been too much too fast, and your body was not conditioned for such a thing. I'm glad you're open about the bodyfat measurement being less than accurate, because if you are at 17% bodyfat that's 43 pounds of fat and at about 10% you would be a ripped 230lbs. That's 24 pounds away from being a Greek god personified, especially at 6'1. Not unfeasible by any means, but definitely advanced or elite.

I actually lost weight over that time period, my diet was around 4300 calories a day working out 5 days a week, and I went from 268 to 254 without trying to lose weight. I wasn't a full on beginner when I started, I've lifted off and on for years, but decided to get serious and stick with it. Oh, I have no doubt that the reading was probably off, had the calipers been used on my thighs I'd probably have a much higher reading since a lot of my weight is in my legs. My goal is to be around 220lbs, I'll have before and after pics hopefully in 3-4 months.