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Fitness |OT4| Squat Booty, Summer Cuts, and Super Swoletrophy
- Thread starter Mr.City
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You sure you just need to work your arm?
As blackflag implies above, if you have 12" arms you're probably undeveloped across your whole body and would benefit the most from focusing on a full body program. Compound lifts result in release of the most anabolic hormones, meaning more gains everywhere, and develop a proportionate athletic look.
I just overhead press, pullup, pushup, squat, deadlift, and pendlay row, and my arms have gotten significantly larger.
entremet
Member
You mean was in terms of Zyzz
I'm a big full body compound lifts guy, and you're gonna get some noob gains with compound lifts for your arms, but you still need direct arm work if you want to get better, bigger biceps, unless you have some freak genetics.
@Domino Theory
For biceps--Chins, incline DB curls are great.
For tris--Skullcrushers, close grip bench and bench variations.
But continue to focus on your main lifts and eat at a surplus with adequate protein. Add arm work to the end of your compound stuff.
That's just nonsense.
Spiritreaver
Member
I've been working out for 5 years now, but only 3 years or so seriously. The first couple of years was all weight loss, getting fat again, and finally making bodybuilding a major part of my life.
Also we've gotten a lot of new built guys recently. That's awesome!
You mean was in terms of Zyzz
I'm a big full body compound lifts guy, and you're gonna get some noob gains with compound lifts for your arms, but you still need direct arm work if you want to get better, bigger biceps, unless you have some freak genetics.
@Domino Theory
For biceps--Chins, incline DB curls are great.
For tris--Skullcrushers, close grip bench and bench variations.
But continue to focus on your main lifts and eat at a surplus with adequate protein. Add arm work to the end of your compound stuff.
Bicep curls do have a purpose, but not to the extent that many people think they do.
With all of these back pics, now I want to see Evilores back
Haha, my nerd body ain't ready for prime time internet posting. Give it a few more months, maybe when I can 3x5 a plate in OHP. Today I finally finished bouncing back from January flu losses, at least.
Yeah.
Ladies and gents, if you want biceps with any sort of definition, you're gonna do curls.
Like... that's how you do it. EZ curl bar, dumbbells, or with a barbell. Personally, I like using the EZ curl bar and dumbbells (mostly because I find using a barbell difficult for my wrists).
You don't HAVE too, but nobody with incredibly sick looking biceps/triceps is just doing compound lifts (outliers may exist, of course).
Sure, for someone intermediate. For someone who is a beginner, bicep curls are kind of a waste. They would get plenty of arm development just getting strong at compounds, like chins. If someone can bench 200+ for reps and sets of 15 strict chin-ups, they'll get some arm development!
Escape Goat
Member
Time to take another 4 month retreat to hawaii to do training montages.
If I could, I sure would. That sounds great!
Back trend is a good reason to get some pics before I cut.
This is at 212... I have a naturally broad upper body and naturally lovable handles. Want dat small waist for the triangle illusion.
As long as isolation training doesn't become the primary method of lifting, there's nothing wrong with someone who is just starting out partaking in vanity arms exercises. If it helps a person mentally enjoy their time in the gym more and thus encourages more frequent and more effective workouts, that's a victory. Chins + DB curls, close grip bench + rope pulldowns. That's all someone new would need, and half of those are compound strength movements that just-so-happen to demolish your arms.
I treat Ahhhms Day like the lifting version of cheat day.
This is at 212... I have a naturally broad upper body and naturally lovable handles. Want dat small waist for the triangle illusion.
As long as isolation training doesn't become the primary method of lifting, there's nothing wrong with someone who is just starting out partaking in vanity arms exercises. If it helps a person mentally enjoy their time in the gym more and thus encourages more frequent and more effective workouts, that's a victory. Chins + DB curls, close grip bench + rope pulldowns. That's all someone new would need, and half of those are compound strength movements that just-so-happen to demolish your arms.
I treat Ahhhms Day like the lifting version of cheat day.
There's nothing wrong with curls and I don't think novices should necessarily shy away from them if they want to swollen up teh Gunz and get a pump after they've squatted and deadlifted for the day, but they also need to draw the line somewhere regarding vanity exercises; otherwise their program soon turns into a monstruosity with 20 curls variations, leg extensions and cable flies on a bosu ball.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I've been cutting for about a month now and it feels like I'm losing what little I gained during the bulking.
Well I always say I'm gonna cut but I never do. We'll see
How long did you bulk, and what did you gain? Also are you losing strength?
Guys, I've been looking into how to increase my HGH release naturally while studying how to best increase muscle grown and fat release.
Anyone familiar with GABA suppliments? 3g before bed is supposed to increase HGH release by 100% while you sleep? Even better when combined with a protein shake?
Anyone familiar with GABA suppliments? 3g before bed is supposed to increase HGH release by 100% while you sleep? Even better when combined with a protein shake?
My fear with a cut is I'd have to go really low on the calories. I mean, I continue to gain weight on what I consider oretty minimal calories. I want to build as much strength as possible before cutting.
uh.... sweet. My Golds just spent about $50k on a bunch of stupid new machines. meanwhile the (much smaller) free weight section is literally falling apart, the showers in the men's bathroom don't work half the time, and people who are doing cardio only have 24" tube TV's to look at. Love those priorities.
Sucks, but at chains machines tend to get the most use.
entremet
Member
How long did you bulk? How long have you been lifting?
Just do a 10 percent deficit and do a slow cut.
And people are still worrying about their b-ceps.
Isn't the EZ bar shitty too? Because it removes a significant portion of the contraction the bicep goes through during the motion? I believe I've heard rip discuss this in a few videos.
One plate OHP, that's my goal as well. 12.5kg away from it but fuck, OHP is a bitch.
I hear ya. I've been working towards bodyweight OHP since last summer, and I'm STILL not there. First I injured my shoulder overdoing it, then I put on a few pounds to try to get it heavier but that didn't do anything except make me heavier and further away from pressing my bodyweight. Frustrating as hell.
Why shit on somebody for doing direct arm work? Some people work out to look good naked. Different strokes and such.
Well, the ez curl doesn't fully supinate the arm, making it easier on the wrist and elbow for some, but the biceps is actually not the strongest elbow flexor. That is the brachialis. The biceps is the primary forearm supinator though, so keeping your forearms less than fully supinated during the curl theoretically could reduce biceps involvement in favour of the brachialis and brachioradialis. In reality though, the biceps gets plenty of work either way judging from real life results.
I think the point is that most people here are beginners, and therefor their time and energy would be much better spent on something other than bicep curls and tricep kickbacks.
Efficiency seems to be at the root of it all.
They'd get plenty of arm development, sure. However, not only are there tonnes of functional purposes to being able to curl heavy weight (like grabbing anything and moving it closer to your upper torso with minimal leg drive), but they're fun. People like doing curls, seeing their bicep peak.
If it doesn't really hurt, helps a little bit, and gives somebody something fun to do at the gym, what's the harm?
Biceps are to TV fitness and bodybuilders what the back is to lifters. That's never going to change. So, I'd prefer to do what I can to implement it as part of a program rather than fight it and have somebody do it anyway.
This isn't an attack on you, BTW. It's just the best verbiage I've found on the EZ bar curl. I've always done it 'cause my wrists hurt like a bitch with cleans, so I try to do everything I can to be nice to them.
When I did a lot of barbell curls for months in a row, the big difference I found between it and the EZ curl bar was I did less volume and always felt awkward with how my arms were positioned. Honestly though, they're curls. On the scale of "lifts that one must be technical about to do properly, not injure themselves, and get benefits out of" it's over there near the leg lift.Johnny Pain from Grayskull LP said:
Didn't take it that way at all. I phrased my comment as a question because I was genuinely asking. I don't take Rips word as always gospel, so if there is something to be said for the EZ bar I'd want to know, as I like to take advantage of everything I can to squeeze out the best results possible.
You're right though, they're friggen curls guys!
A superset of 3-4x curls/pushdowns takes, what, 8 minutes? 10 minutes?
Efficiency only comes into play when a person is moving their workout regiment away from compound lifts and into iso work. Complimentary arms work is not a sign of that.
This isn't entirely true. Part of a program like SS requires you to recover in time for the next workout, usually with one day of rest. Those extra isolation lifts might make it so that you haven't recovered properly to do your compounds during he next workout. Perhaps you won't be able to do as many pullups/chins as you could on Fridays workout because of the curls on Wednesday. This has an effect on the program, albeit a small one.
entremet
Member
I love all you guys, but adding some direct arm accessory work to end of the big lifts in stuff like SS, won't hurt much.
SS is amazing and builds a great foundation and I agree that beginners should focus on that, but adding arm accessories at the end of the workouts in a 3x8 or so range won't hurt much.
Besides, even powerlifters do tons of tricep accessories to improve their benching. Obviously, those are more advanced trainees.
SS is amazing and builds a great foundation and I agree that beginners should focus on that, but adding arm accessories at the end of the workouts in a 3x8 or so range won't hurt much.
Besides, even powerlifters do tons of tricep accessories to improve their benching. Obviously, those are more advanced trainees.
If you want to add in a couple of sets of curls, calf raises and pushdowns on Friday, it won't fuck your progress on SS. I'd be especially careful of the pushdowns though, if your triceps are fried it'll hamper your bench and press.
I wasn't saying not to. I was merely saying that it can effect the efficiency of the program. Whether that is considered an acceptable thing is up to the user.
This was the big thing. Your triceps are being hit every day and need to be ready to go.
Yeah but they have a different capacity, as well as many not needing to bench "heavy" twice in the same 5 day span.
Last night at midnight I did this.lol heading back in a minute for chest/tris
8 sets of deadlifts to my 1 rep max then down to 315 for 2 sets of 10
3 sets t bar row
3 sets hammer strength row
3 sets cable lat pull down
3 sets pull ups
4 sets shrugs
3 sets incline db curl
3 sets barbell curl
3 sets preacher curls
I do everything in 3 days, 1 day rest and start over. I'm sure ill need to switch it up when I cut.
8 sets of deadlifts to my 1 rep max then down to 315 for 2 sets of 10
3 sets t bar row
3 sets hammer strength row
3 sets cable lat pull down
3 sets pull ups
4 sets shrugs
3 sets incline db curl
3 sets barbell curl
3 sets preacher curls
I do everything in 3 days, 1 day rest and start over. I'm sure ill need to switch it up when I cut.
BlueScrote
Member
I remember in his LTE video he talks about it since LTEs use the EZ Curl bar.
You're right, that's where I remember it from,
I think a lot of the "accessory work needs to stay away" is the fault of Rip's attitude towards novice training. I would never suggest that I'm more intelligent or experienced when it comes to designing a novice program, but Rip has a very focused view on both training and ascetics. Anything outside of that he just doesn't give a fuck about. While that's fine, it leads into issues when dealing with the public at large.
For better or worse, men (as that's who curls are generally going to be aimed at) have an image in their mind of what they want to look like. Most men see whatever model is on the front of whatever magazine they see and go "dats what I want!" They're not concerned about long term gains or strength or anything else. They just want too look attractive.
When dealing with this, one has two options:
A. Tell them to exhaust X program to completion and damn anything outside of that.
B. Try to make it work
I've found, when dealing with people, that A seems to push folks away from being in the gym. THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE GOAL. While most people who've been in the iron game for 5+ years might get annoyed by a novice's single minded focus on one quality or another, it's important to understand you're one person (or forum thread) versus, quite literally, years of fine tuned advertising, media exposure, brosicence (or flat out lies), and physiological manipulation. You cannot win that battle.
What you CAN do is try to slowly steer the ship. Real talk, if I can get somebody to do squats and at the end of the workout they wanna do curls and look at themselves in the mirror, fuck it WE'RE DOING CURLS. If some guy wants to do leg lifts so he can get shweet abs and that gets him doing deadlifts, break out those sweaty strap things and slap him on a pull up bar to do leg lifts.
I keep harping about how much better I feel that GSLP is compared to SS for a lot of technical reasons, but the biggest reason I feel that way is the program is designed, from the get go, to be flexible. Starting Strength is fantastic for a fresh in the door novice, but it gets boring, it gets hard, and for a lot of people it just isn't fun. If flexibility gets somebody to their goals I'd rather be flexible to get them there rather than be a hard ass and deter somebody from learning more and making progress.
Something to reflect on, despite how much of a stickler people Rip is, he has several paragraphs on the curl because, and I quote, "I know you're going to do curls so here's how you do curls."
For better or worse, men (as that's who curls are generally going to be aimed at) have an image in their mind of what they want to look like. Most men see whatever model is on the front of whatever magazine they see and go "dats what I want!" They're not concerned about long term gains or strength or anything else. They just want too look attractive.
When dealing with this, one has two options:
A. Tell them to exhaust X program to completion and damn anything outside of that.
B. Try to make it work
I've found, when dealing with people, that A seems to push folks away from being in the gym. THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE GOAL. While most people who've been in the iron game for 5+ years might get annoyed by a novice's single minded focus on one quality or another, it's important to understand you're one person (or forum thread) versus, quite literally, years of fine tuned advertising, media exposure, brosicence (or flat out lies), and physiological manipulation. You cannot win that battle.
What you CAN do is try to slowly steer the ship. Real talk, if I can get somebody to do squats and at the end of the workout they wanna do curls and look at themselves in the mirror, fuck it WE'RE DOING CURLS. If some guy wants to do leg lifts so he can get shweet abs and that gets him doing deadlifts, break out those sweaty strap things and slap him on a pull up bar to do leg lifts.
I keep harping about how much better I feel that GSLP is compared to SS for a lot of technical reasons, but the biggest reason I feel that way is the program is designed, from the get go, to be flexible. Starting Strength is fantastic for a fresh in the door novice, but it gets boring, it gets hard, and for a lot of people it just isn't fun. If flexibility gets somebody to their goals I'd rather be flexible to get them there rather than be a hard ass and deter somebody from learning more and making progress.
Something to reflect on, despite how much of a stickler people Rip is, he has several paragraphs on the curl because, and I quote, "I know you're going to do curls so here's how you do curls."
I always thought a large bicep would eventually become cumbersome so I stick with chins. After all, I'm not a bodybuilder.
Taurine.
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/07/up-to-180-increase-in-testosterone-w.html
Also, run to the butcher and buy some bull testicles. Eat them raw, tell me how it goes. The Romans did it in the past and it supposedly has similar effects to dianabol. I've read contrary but I always wondered if it could be the secret weapon for natural bodybuilders.
Besides, you may like all those nooks and crannies/suprise spots full of juice; strength juice.
Taurine.
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/07/up-to-180-increase-in-testosterone-w.html
Also, run to the butcher and buy some bull testicles. Eat them raw, tell me how it goes. The Romans did it in the past and it supposedly has similar effects to dianabol. I've read contrary but I always wondered if it could be the secret weapon for natural bodybuilders.
Besides, you may like all those nooks and crannies/suprise spots full of juice; strength juice.
Just wanna chime in quickly about the accessory stuff- I was a pretty big Rippetoe guy, and I followed his stuff religiously for about 3 years- I put on major mass, but in the end, my body was not aesthetically where I wanted it. I was waaay bottom heavy, my arms weren't proportional, my calves were way behind. I switched to a pure BB routine, and I feel that aesthetically I'm heading fast in the right direction. At some point, I strongly believe accessory/iso work is necessary.
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