This.
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Fitness |OT4| Squat Booty, Summer Cuts, and Super Swoletrophy
- Thread starter Mr.City
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This.
I want her to eat all of my protein. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ5fGXd_rCw
I think he means getting protein from "natural" (more or less) sources. Whey being manufactured and processed not "natural" like other food sources. I dunno
maybe he means if u stop taking whey protein but dont replace it with real food protein youll be losing later
Waifu material.
lol
It most certainly is. It's literally milk serum. The protein found in whey is mostly Casein, which is the same protein found in milk and dairy.
If whey isn't real food, then milk isn't food either.
It's just a tool. It's a convenient, practical and efficient way of supplementing protein intake. Many of us require over 200g of protein a day. Whey makes it easier to meet these requirements.
Yep and not only is it food, it is also the most bioavailable form of protein. So as long as you eat enough other food to meet your micronutient needs, it doesn't matter how much whey you drink.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
This reminds me of a story relayed to me by a friend about the owner of a local gym. He insists that you can't mix milk with whey protein powder, because they make the powder by taking the 'bad stuff' (or words to that effect) out of the milk. So if you mix it with milk you're putting it back together and ruining the protein.
The level of pseudo-science and even paranoia surrounding such a simple product is depressing. It's bad enough when people who have no interest in training or nutrition think that protein powder is some kind of unnatural PED, but when people who have spent decades training and consuming the stuff treat it like some kind of arcane wizard potion you lose a little of your faith in humanity.
The level of pseudo-science and even paranoia surrounding such a simple product is depressing. It's bad enough when people who have no interest in training or nutrition think that protein powder is some kind of unnatural PED, but when people who have spent decades training and consuming the stuff treat it like some kind of arcane wizard potion you lose a little of your faith in humanity.
In an ideal world. Unfortunately some people have busy schedules and can't always cook whole foods all the time.
Well whey protein is actually whey protein; it's separate from casein protein, which is a different type also found in milk. Whey is actually extremely cheap to produce; it's scraped off the sides of milk processing vats. Good protein source though!
And now we've outed another ignorant thread-goer. There is nothing dumb about whey, it is another tool to be used just like any other. And from a nutritional standpoint, calling it "dumb" just shows your ignorance. Congrats.
No it's dumb and you're dumb!
I stand corrected.
I can't really comment on the other points he was trying to make (mostly sounds like nonsense / broscience anyway), but I do have a close friend who's a chemist / chemical engineer and told me to get off whey protein. In fact, we just talked about it like two nights ago. He's a very health conscious guy and remarkably smart. In full disclosure, I'd estimate I drink around 2-4 shakes per week using Whey Protein.
Anyway, I'll do my best to sum up (off hand) what his concerns regarding Whey Protein centered around. In short; he said Whey itself is a byproduct of the cheese industry. Which is true. After cheese is produced - the clear liquid left over is Whey. Whey contains a small amount of protein (ergo Whey Protein). Most companies attempt to tout advanced science and procedures used to extract and filter (micro filter) Whey. However, that doesn't really shed much light onto what Whey is composed of essentially. Which is serum albumen, lactalbumen, dead white cells. blood proteins (bovine) and hormonal residues including estrogen - progesterone and IGF-1 (insulin growth 1).
So taking a step back for a moment - most of the cheese in this country uses milk. More specifically, factory milk which is crudely and cheaply made. The overwhelming majority of this shitty milk contains growth hormones (rBGH), as the cows are juicing out of their minds. Furthermore, these same cows are fed modified soy and corn. Which have a shit ton of antibiotics in them. Hence why there's a plethora of movements and data suggesting that these cows - which are used to make low quality milk are highly cancerous.
So in conclusion - it's a trickle down effect. Unhealthy cow milk is used to produce shitty low quality cheese - which in turn has Whey extracted from it. Thinking deeper; The body's reaction to a foreign protein is to destroy antigen-like invaders with an antibody. So anyone who has a genetic pre-disposition to such an event, the antibody then turns upon one's own cells. That is what is known as an auto-immune response. Therefore, one could assume that consumption of Whey Protein potentially leads an individuals body response - the response being whey proteins to attack the outer membrane protecting nerve cells, or the myelin sheath. Possibly bringing on the onset of Diabetes, Multiple Sclerosis or a myriad of other auto-immune diseases. Oh, and remember our old friend IGF-1? IGF-1 is known to stimulate the growth of both normal and cancerous cells.
I'm sure a bunch of guys in here attempt to eat healthy and consume organic products. I think I even saw Sean or someone post a picture of their grocery items. If you insist on using Whey Protein in your diet, then I would highly advise making sure it's certified organic. Lastly, there's another study that I am aware of that suggested that a diet supplemented with Whey Protein contributed towards bone loss / density. The researches basically concluded that a lifetime use of Whey / Milk Proteins increased a patients risk of developing Osteoporosis.
Maybe you can like teach me something then? I guess I probably came across poorly in my last post (I did say sorry!), but I'm always eager to learn. If I've got it wrong tell me why or how or something.
Here's my argument:
From what I've learned about nutrition, taking supplements doesn't make sense unless you're deficient in something, or are treating a medical condition. When was the last time you met someone who was protein deficient?
If you have poor nutrition, taking supplements aren't going to make you healthier, and if you have proper nutrition you won't need supplements anyway.
I would agree with you that taking protein can be used as a tool to make you bigger, but getting bigger doesn't make you healthier. Also, I think (but not sure if I fully believe) that taking "extra" protein (beyond what you're body is using) isn't going to make you "extra" big, you'll just pee it out.
Whole foods are always better then supplements. Not only will a whole food have amino acids, but it will also have other nutrients and chemicals that your body needs balanced in a way that only nature can do. Nutrition is a relatively young science, a lot of it is not fully understood and new things are being discovered all the time. So what is designed in a lab to be amazing today might turn out to be something else 20 years from now.
I do understand (and someone posted) not everyone has time to prepare whole foods, I get it (but I don't think it's that difficult). Just don't let taking supplements be a replacement for proper nutrition. If you have poor nutrition I think you should focus on fixing that before you start thinking about what type/how much supplement to take... proper nutrition will go much further than supplements in making you more fit.
edit: holy fuck, avoid processed foods.
Hi ok this might be a stupid question.. I'll ask anyway 
Over the last 8 months I've lost a bunch of weight was around 210 now I am at 175. I'm 5'8.
My question is I know what I'm doing now will more or less help me lose even more weight if I needed. However my ultimate goal is to be lean and defined. My current routine is pretty much all cardio from playing a lot of basketball, running etc. As well watching what I eat. My question is should I start looking at weight lifting or strength stuff now (to achieve my goal) I always felt it was best to cut down a bunch of my fat before I do this.. but now I'm wondering when that weight is? Should I wait till 160?
thanks !
Over the last 8 months I've lost a bunch of weight was around 210 now I am at 175. I'm 5'8.
My question is I know what I'm doing now will more or less help me lose even more weight if I needed. However my ultimate goal is to be lean and defined. My current routine is pretty much all cardio from playing a lot of basketball, running etc. As well watching what I eat. My question is should I start looking at weight lifting or strength stuff now (to achieve my goal) I always felt it was best to cut down a bunch of my fat before I do this.. but now I'm wondering when that weight is? Should I wait till 160?
thanks !
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
After seeing Spoto play with 675 my 254 for 20 feels weak source...
Hi ok this might be a stupid question.. I'll ask anyway
Over the last 8 months I've lost a bunch of weight was around 210 now I am at 175. I'm 5'8.
My question is I know what I'm doing now will more or less help me lose even more weight if I needed. However my ultimate goal is to be lean and defined. My current routine is pretty much all cardio from playing a lot of basketball, running etc. As well watching what I eat. My question is should I start looking at weight lifting or strength stuff now (to achieve my goal) I always felt it was best to cut down a bunch of my fat before I do this.. but now I'm wondering when that weight is? Should I wait till 160?
thanks !
Hey,
You should definitely look into weight training, for a few reasons:
1. It's healthy. Being strong is important to good health, and doing cardio alone will not make you as healthy as you would otherwise be.
2. It builds a foundation. If you want to get better as basketball, imagine how your performance on the court would improve if you were strong. Stuff which used to be hard is now easier, and stuff which used to be impossible is now possible. You get good at cardio faster when you're stronger (up to a point).
3. It burns calories. Basketball does that too, but weights don't stop you from leaning out.
4. It builds muscle. Cardio is actually muscle BURNING. If you diet down on cardio alone, you'll end up looking either flabby or scrawny. While losing fat, weight lifting is important, more important than cardio for this reason. If you want to look ripped, lift weights.
If you are really lean before you start to lift, you are at a disadvantage because you've got to put on (muscle) weight. You can use the fat on your frame as energy to recover from workouts. The highway starts with you lifting weights NOW.
They're both great options; a lot of people will drink whey right after a workout as it's absorbed extremely quickly, and casein protein gels in the stomach (hence why milk can get clumpy if you shake it with vinegar) and is slowly absorbed over several hours. The mix in milk is one of the reasons why it's such a great muscle builder - the quick hit on ingestion combined with a slow steady draw all day. Combined with healthier sugars (no fructose) for carb intake, some fat and plenty of micronutrients and growth factors, it's arguably better than steroids for a novice!
I'm drinking milk right now haha
wow thanks for the awesome reply!!
The biggest gain I've seen from losing so much weight is I do feel lighter on my feet.. I just can accelerate faster while running. However its weird because I remember I could do about ~20 pushups before weight loss, and it seems to be the same even after losing 35 pounds. I guess I should have done the strength training day 1 even at my heaviest... I'm still fat though so I got fat to help me out still lol
The biggest gain I've seen from losing so much weight is I do feel lighter on my feet.. I just can accelerate faster while running. However its weird because I remember I could do about ~20 pushups before weight loss, and it seems to be the same even after losing 35 pounds. I guess I should have done the strength training day 1 even at my heaviest... I'm still fat though so I got fat to help me out still lol
How is it ignorant?
Not all "supplements" are the same... some are dumber then others =) /friendly banter.
entremet
Member
One of my favorite tricep builders. I love it.
TheDarkStark
Member
Deadlift 355 x 2 on my final set today, feels good man.
I'm going to be hitting 4 plates soon.
I'm going to be hitting 4 plates soon.
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A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
It's not as though protein powder (which isn't always derived from whey) is a multivitamin. It's simply an easy way for someone to get their fill of a macronutrient. Maybe they won't be able to have a meal for a few hours after training and don't want to go hungry in that time? Maybe they struggle to eat at a caloric surplus sometimes and a shake just makes things easier for them. Neither of these cases involve supplementing a nutritionally poor diet with protein. I feel I should note here that I don't even use the stuff, but if I was in a circumstance where I thought it was useful I would.
As for your other points re: supplements vs diet, whilst it's easy to get caught up in the fact that the supplement industry is largely bullshit, I feel you're being a bit too general and dismissive with your proclamations. Someone with a deficiency in gut flora would have to eat an ungodly amount of (quality) yoghurt to try and match what a pro-biotic could do for them and some mirco-nutrients such as magnesium can be tricky to obtain purely from dietary sources, especially with the toll heavy training can take on electrolyte levels.
So, for those who have suffered shoulder injuries. My right shoulder feels like it's bruised on the top near the collarbone/shoulder meeting point. It's not a bruise from blunt contact though. There's some pain, especially if its left in the same position and gets stiff, or if I try an exaggerated reverse flye motion with my right arm. I'm icing it. What am I looking at here?
I'm on board the broscience brotip of performing close-grip bench on a decline. Feels like a more natural motion and puts less direct stress on my wrists. Decline CG bench has been my favorite exercise ever since I started lifting. Probably also explains my strong lower chest / underboob.
I'm on board the broscience brotip of performing close-grip bench on a decline. Feels like a more natural motion and puts less direct stress on my wrists. Decline CG bench has been my favorite exercise ever since I started lifting. Probably also explains my strong lower chest / underboob.
@A More Normal Bird, You make a lot of good points that I feel align with my point of view.
But here's where I disagree:
If you need to use a protein shake every once in awhile when your running late or something, OK. But the plan shouldn't be to down a large protein shake after a killer workout. If you know your gonna workout hard then you should plan to eat a big healthy meal right afterwards, and if something comes up THEN fall back on the protein shake. It's common sense, but tons of people plan on the protein shake, which is not healthy (I think I can stand by that).
If you're struggling to eat a caloric surplus.. then I don't know, eat more whole foods, make a smoothie out of fresh fruit and vegetables, not some machine generated isolated macro-nutrient. Did you read where the other guy said that shit comes from? It doesn't make sense to rely on protein shakes.
But here's where I disagree:
Because I feel like it is supplementing a nutritionally poor diet with protein.
If you need to use a protein shake every once in awhile when your running late or something, OK. But the plan shouldn't be to down a large protein shake after a killer workout. If you know your gonna workout hard then you should plan to eat a big healthy meal right afterwards, and if something comes up THEN fall back on the protein shake. It's common sense, but tons of people plan on the protein shake, which is not healthy (I think I can stand by that).
If you're struggling to eat a caloric surplus.. then I don't know, eat more whole foods, make a smoothie out of fresh fruit and vegetables, not some machine generated isolated macro-nutrient. Did you read where the other guy said that shit comes from? It doesn't make sense to rely on protein shakes.
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A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
No, neither of those examples necessarily involve supplementing a nutritionally poor diet with protein powders. It's perfectly possible to have a varied diet which provides adequate quantities of micronutrients and have a protein shake because you know you might not get to dinner until late at night, or hell, at all. Unless you're defining a diet where the only deficiency is a failure to reach desired protein or total calorie levels as nutritionally poor, in which case what is wrong with consuming a product designed to solely meet those two requirements?
Can you list some of the benefits you think would come from having a meal rather than a protein shake after training, or using meals to increase caloric surplus instead of protein shakes, assuming that the rest of the diet is balanced and healthy?
Can you list some of the benefits you think would come from having a meal rather than a protein shake after training, or using meals to increase caloric surplus instead of protein shakes, assuming that the rest of the diet is balanced and healthy?
Why don't you just PM me your insults? Please don't be a jerk.
The benefits would be the proper balance of vitamins, minerals, nutrients, phytochemicals and fiber in your calories.
If the rest of your diet is balanced and healthy, and then you add a bunch of any one thing (whether it's protein or carbohydrate, or vitamin B), how is that still balanced?
Mattdaddy
Gold Member
Alright dudes, lately when I lift hard I've been getting brutal feet and toe cramps. I can't even walk. Doesn't matter what muscle group I'm doing, it doesn't even have to be leg day. But it feels like my big toe tries to tear away from my foot and I have to stop and stretch it constantly. What gives?
people trying to gain muscle need a lot of protein. a balanced diet is different for different people.
Because protein and calories are the thing you still need more of. You want to just eat some chicken breast instead, be our guest, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with whey instead.
What is a balanced diet? What is a healthy diet? How do you determine how many macro-nutrients an individual needs?
I want to squat 400lb below parallel and deadlift 500lb by this time next year. I don't need a balanced diet. What I need is to eat enough protein (and carbs, and fat) so that my eyes bulge out of their sockets.
A lot of people in this thread train for strength, and size. Our needs are different than those of the general population. Stating otherwise comes off as confrontational and that's why people are freaking out.
This is what I posted earlier:
I guess now we're just going around in circles?
Yea, I guess so. I swear I'm not trying to be confrontational. I probably started off on the wrong foot by calling it dumb, I don't think anyone here is dumb, that's not what I meant. I just don't think that taking mass amounts of protein supplements are very healthy. I stated my reasons, I'd love to discuss it further, if you don't want to that's fine too.
I guess now we're just going around in circles?
Yea, I guess so. I swear I'm not trying to be confrontational. I probably started off on the wrong foot by calling it dumb, I don't think anyone here is dumb, that's not what I meant. I just don't think that taking mass amounts of protein supplements are very healthy. I stated my reasons, I'd love to discuss it further, if you don't want to that's fine too.
'Balanced' is a completely arbitrary word that might as well mean nothing at all. Every person is at different stages of their life and have different dietary needs based upon those stages of their life or what activities they want to pursue.
Obviously, if you are someone that is looking to gain muscle mass in the most efficient way possible, you need to consume more protein than the average person may consume in a day.
No, not circles. You are spouting fallacies and people are trying to teach you.
Muscle is always a good thing. We're not taking extra protein, we're taking .8-1g/bodyweight. That comes to about 180-200g of protein for a 200lb person. That's pretty difficult to do everyday. A protein shake with 25-50g of protein a day is extremely helpful to getting to that goal. We're not advocating to just use a protein shake to get all of your protein needs.
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A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
A balanced diet doesn't mean everything in equal proportion, it means enough of everything. As mentioned above, if the goal is weight gain, there's no downside to adding a shake to increase protein (unnecessary though it may be in some cases) and calories. It is just food, processed though it may be. Unless you're choosing something that's more sugar than protein, what's the downside?
The same thing applies to drinking more milk or eating more meat and eggs. As long as the rest of your diet is balanced, you don't need to increase your serving of veggies from 200g to 400g to compensate. All that would achieve is throwing your macros out of balance in favour of your micros remaining at parity, when they're already sufficiently catered for. You've got the right idea about not relying on supplements to replace proper eating, but seem to have taken it to an irrational extreme.
FallingEdge
Member
protein shakes 24/7
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