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Fitness |OT4| Squat Booty, Summer Cuts, and Super Swoletrophy

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T

TheDarkStark

Member
Mully said:
Muscle is always a good thing. We're not taking extra protein, we're taking .8-1g/bodyweight. That comes to about 180-200g of protein for a 200lb person. That's pretty difficult to do everyday. A protein shake with 25-50g of protein a day is extremely helpful to getting to that goal. We're not advocating to just use a protein shake to get all of your protein needs.
Click to expand...

Wait you guys eat real food? Fuck I've been doing it wrong this whole time. I've just been taking like 10 shakes a day... No wonder it costs me $25 a day to eat.
 
B

bjb

Banned
Ketch said:
Yea, I guess so. I swear I'm not trying to be confrontational. I probably started off on the wrong foot by calling it dumb, I don't think anyone here is dumb, that's not what I meant. I just don't think that taking mass amounts of protein supplements are very healthy. I stated my reasons, I'd love to discuss it further, if you don't want to that's fine too.
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This has been brought up previously in the thread. The conclusion is that Protein (even in large / excess dosages) is safe. The only caveat being that if you already have a pre-existing kidney (or abdominal cavity) condition, then it's probably not advisable to have a diet high in protein.

Regardless, I think the real issue is not a matter of diet or supplementation, but rather going back to the original topic - is it safe? Rather, how to safely introduce it. In my estimation, the evidence is pretty clear that any Whey Protein that isn't certified organic is potentially very hazardous to your health.
 
B

balddemon

Banned
real talk, takin a dump is no longer fun because I take so much protein. and the farts...hooo boy.

also, I need new jeans. I'm currently sitting at my desk with them unbuttoned and unzipped because they're uncomfortably tight around my waist :(
 
K

Khalifa Jayy

Banned
Let's talk negative reps. Do you guys feel that they are necessary and efficient? More specifically, how often would you recommend doing negative rep sets on bench press?
 
D

despire

Member
Thread moving fast again :p Anyway my question got buried a few pages back. Can anyone give me an answer?

despire said:
So I've got a question about doing a program with hypertrophy like the 5/3/1 Bodybuilding template..


With the hypertrophy based assistance lifts, should one lift:

a) lighter weights but with a shorter rest?
b) heavier weights but with a longer rest?

Strict form is of course a given but I'd like to know about the above. And how much rest should I have between the lifts? 45 seconds? 90 seconds? 2 minutes?
Click to expand...
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
Here's a list for WR's. Which I figure is a good measure as they are closest in body weight to us mere mortals:

Chris Harper, Kansas State (20)
Marcus Davis, Virginia Tech (19)
Mark Harrison, Rutgers (17)
Kenny Stills, Oklahoma (16)
Ryan Swope, Texas A&M (16)
Ryan Spadola, Lehigh (15)
DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson (15)
Robert Woods, Southern Cal (14)
Alan Bonner, Jacksonville State (14)
Tavon Austin, West Virginia (14)
Marquise Goodwin, Texas (13)
Corey Fuller, Virginia Tech (12)
Tavarres King, Georgia (11)
Stedman Bailey, West Virginia (11)
Cobi Hamilton, Arkansas (11)
Terrance Williams, Baylor (11)
Tyrone Goard, Eastern Kentucky (10)
Da'Rick Rogers, Tennessee Tech (10)
Brandon Kaufman, Eastern Washington (9)
Aaron Mellette, Elon (9)
Quinton Patton, Louisiana Tech (8)
Kenbrell Thompkins, Cincinnati (8)
Alec Lemon, Syracuse (7)
Ace Sanders, South Carolina (7)
Marquess Wilson, Washington St. (7)
Darius Johnson, SMU (6)
Click to expand...
 
P

Poindexter

Member
despire said:
Thread moving fast again :p Anyway my question got buried a few pages back. Can anyone give me an answer?
Click to expand...
You're overthinking it really. Wendler says that as long as you tire out the muscle with assistance you're good. But he does recommend around 2 minute rests for assistance IIRC.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
I missed out on the protein powder hate lol.
Personally, I couldn't do it without protein powder. Through "normal" food, I'd end up with an unhealthy amount of fat and/or carbs if I tried to hit the same amount of protein as I get now.
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
the only thing I'd like to understand about the protein topic is what happens when a particular meal has an exepcionally high amount of protein.

I watched the numbers and 3 slices of my protein bread with tuna give me something around 70 grs., that would be nearing half of what I need per day according to the line of thought of matching the height number with the protein grams.

If the body can only absorb around 30 gr. every X amount of hours, does that mean that all the extra protein intake goes down the drain and should not count as part of my daily intake??

I haven't found anything conclusive about that. some people say "just take as much as you can, anytime anywhere", some others say "give it up past a certain threshold" (meaning my protein bread with tuna is stupid cause is way more than I can use per meal)

still looking for answers :/
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
sphinx said:
the only thing I'd like to understand about the protein topic is what happens when a particular meal has an exepcionally high amount of protein.

I watched the numbers and 3 slices of my protein bread with tuna give me something around 70 grs., that would be nearing half of what I need per day according to the line of thought of matching the height number with the protein grams.

If the body can only absorb around 30 gr. every X amount of hours, does that mean that all the extra protein intake goes down the drain and should not count as part of my daily intake??

I haven't found anything conclusive about that. some people say "just take as much as you can, anytime anywhere", some others say "give it up past a certain threshold" (meaning my protein bread with tuna is stupid cause is way more than I can use per meal)

still looking for answers :/
Click to expand...

Someone linked to an awesome guide on this.
I shall try to find it for you.

That tuna steak in your body will still be broken down into waste, and as it passes through your intestines you'll only be able to absorb so much - the rest will drop into the toilet.
My guess is that yes, some of the protein you eat will be expelled as waste as you can only absorb so much at a given time, therefore you should eat smaller amounts of protein frequently over the day rather than massive amounts infrequently.
 
P

Poindexter

Member
sphinx said:
the only thing I'd like to understand about the protein topic is what happens when a particular meal has an exepcionally high amount of protein.

I watched the numbers and 3 slices of my protein bread with tuna give me something around 70 grs., that would be nearing half of what I need per day according to the line of thought of matching the height number with the protein grams.

If the body can only absorb around 30 gr. every X amount of hours, does that mean that all the extra protein intake goes down the drain and should not count as part of my daily intake??

I haven't found anything conclusive about that. some people say "just take as much as you can, anytime anywhere", some others say "give it up past a certain threshold" (meaning my protein bread with tuna is stupid cause is way more than I can use per meal)

still looking for answers :/
Click to expand...
The 30 grams per hours thing is broscience.

It's basically a remnant of the "6 meals a day, one every 3 hours" era in fitness.
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
SquiddyBiscuit said:
Someone linked to an awesome guide on this.
I shall try to find it for you.

That tuna steak in your body will still be broken down into waste, and as it passes through your intestines you'll only be able to absorb so much - the rest will drop into the toilet.
My guess is that yes, some of the protein you eat will be expelled as waste as you can only absorb so much at a given time, therefore you should eat smaller amounts of protein frequently over the day rather than massive amounts infrequently.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it would help. This isn't the first time I ask, Noema once posted a youtube link to a guy explaining, I watched it and everything made sense, but he conveniently avoided giving an answer to that question. The most "liked" comment was exactly someone asking that, meaning people were looking for answers. He did say that people should try to go for 30-35 grams per meal though.. but he wasn't conclusive about it, like.. "it's better", but not THE one and only way to take protein.

Poindexter said:
The 30 grams per hours thing is broscience.

It's basically a remnant of the "6 meals a day, one every 3 hours" era in fitness.
Click to expand...

am I reading this wrong or are you guys contradicting each other?

cause that would prove how uncertain all of this is.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
The whole thing about protein powder is that is it a way cheaper than conventional protein sources. Yes, you can go the whole foods route, but that's way more work and costs.
 
T

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
I'm hovering about 2lbs over my weight class for a lifting meet I have on Saturday. Anyone have any sure fire ways to drop a bit that won't fuck with my energy levels?
 
D

despire

Member
So I decided to finally give 5/3/1 a go with the bodybuilding template. I switched few lifts around from the original template so I'd like some opinions:

Press 5/3/1
DB Press 4x12
Side Lateral Raise 4x12
BB Curls 4x12
DB Hammer Curls 4x10 (switched from Preacher Curls)

Deadlift 5/3/1
DB Row 4x12
Chins 4x10
RDL 4x10 (switched from Goog Mornings)
DB Shrugs 4x12

Bench 5/3/1
DB Bench 4x10 (switched from Dips)
DB Flyes 4x12
LTE/CGBP 4x12 (switched from Tricep Pushdown 5x20)
Push ups 4xFAIL

Squat 5/3/1
Leg Press 4x15
Hangin Leg Raise 4x12
Calf Raise 4x~50 (un-weighed)
Ab Wheel 4x15

The biggest difference is the fact that I took leg extensions and leg curls out. My thighs are already big enough as is and I don't really need any more unnecessary hypertrophy on them. I think the leg press is enough. Also did some more minor changes like added calf raises and ab wheel to squatting day so there's something to do. Switched Good Mornings to RDL's since I've done them before and shouldn't they be pretty much the same? Took out dips since I have this weird problem with pain on my sternum sometimes and last time I did dips they made it hurt. Also wouldn't LTE/CGBP be better than tricep pushdown?
 
P

Poindexter

Member
sphinx said:
Yeah, it would help. This isn't the first time I ask, Noema once posted a youtube link to a guy explaining, I watched it and everything made sense, but he conveniently avoided giving an answer to that question. The most "liked" comment was exactly someone asking that, meaning people were looking for answers. He did say that people should try to go for 30-35 grams per meal though.. but he wasn't conclusive about it, like.. "it's better", but not THE one and only way to take protein.



am I reading this wrong or are you guys contradicting each other?

cause that would prove how uncertain all of this is.
Click to expand...
Yes we are are contradicting each other.

It's nonsense. If it was true, I would only be absorbing 90 grams of protein a day. Considering I weigh 200 lbs I think I would have run into a problem somewhere.

It would also contradict all the people who make gains on Intermittent Fasting.

There is no conclusive evidence to prove that 30-35 grams is the absorption limit. There probably is one, but it's most likely dependent on the individual person and not that low. Either way, there's no hard data to back up that claim. Work out what works best for you.
 
M

MjFrancis

Member
sphinx said:
am I reading this wrong or are you guys contradicting each other?

cause that would prove how uncertain all of this is.
Click to expand...
From Martin Berkhan's Top Ten Fasting Myths Debunked:

5. Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.

Truth

Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horseshit. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

Origin

I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.

Further reading:

"Is There a Limit to how Much Protein the Body can Use in a Single Meal?" by Alan Aragon.
Click to expand...
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
Alright, I got the bit about protein taking different times to get fully absorbed with there being an upper absorption limit of protein.
Thanks for the link!
 
B

blackflag

Member
The deal with protein is if you eat too much, it doesn't go to waste, it still gets used but you do max out your anabolic response at around 40-50 grams (ill have to check this number). So more than that at any one time won't make you grow faster but it's not like it gets totally wasted either. You still absorb it, it just won't really increase your anabolic response.

I'd suggest you guys check out Muscle College Radio podcast.

It is hosted by Layne Norton who has his PHD in this stuff and is a pro bodybuilder and power lifter.his co host is also a PHD in the area. I believe the 2nd episode is the one that goes in depth on muscle protein synthesis. First episode is about lifting. It's new so there are only 2 episodes.
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
despire said:
The biggest difference is the fact that I took leg extensions and leg curls out. My thighs are already big enough as is and I don't really need any more unnecessary hypertrophy on them. I think the leg press is enough. Also did some more minor changes like added calf raises and ab wheel to squatting day so there's something to do. Switched Good Mornings to RDL's since I've done them before and shouldn't they be pretty much the same? Took out dips since I have this weird problem with pain on my sternum sometimes and last time I did dips they made it hurt. Also wouldn't LTE/CGBP be better than tricep pushdown?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it is "better" since they all work the tricep pretty hard. It just comes down to preference. The great thing about that program is that you have a big more freedom in what you want to do. As long as you work the muscle pick the exercise you want to do. I use tricep pulldowns and diamond pushups.
 
C

Cagey

Banned
Bumping the post if anyone has experience with this.

Shoulder/collarbone area still has that feels bruised sensation today, just not as bad as the night before.

Cagey said:
So, for those who have suffered shoulder injuries. My right shoulder feels like it's bruised on the top near the collarbone/shoulder meeting point. It's not a bruise from blunt contact though. There's some pain, especially if its left in the same position and gets stiff, or if I try an exaggerated reverse flye motion with my right arm. I'm icing it. What am I looking at here?

I'm on board the broscience brotip of performing close-grip bench on a decline. Feels like a more natural motion and puts less direct stress on my wrists. Decline CG bench has been my favorite exercise ever since I started lifting. Probably also explains my strong lower chest / underboob.
Click to expand...
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
Cagey said:
Bumping the post if anyone has experience with this.

Shoulder/collarbone area still has that feels bruised sensation today, just not as bad as the night before.
Click to expand...

Funny you mentioned this, I got this feeling doing decline bench the other day.
Only lasted a day in my case though, but I'll look into doing close-grip decline bench next cycle.
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
SquiddyBiscuit said:
Wait, what?
Click to expand...

hehe, you guys don't have that in the US?

Eiweissbrot-Fettversteck-statt-Schlankmacher.jpg
Click to expand...

the german "Eiweiss Brot" is literally "Protein Bread"

it isn't a marvel by any means but compared to other kinds of bread it contains more protein per slice, if I remember correctly, about 14 gr each, compared to 2 or 3 grams in other types of bread I've seen in the stores.

tastes bad on its own but eat it with a pumpkin soup and it's godly.
 
D

despire

Member
FallingEdge said:
I don't know if it is "better" since they all work the tricep pretty hard. It just comes down to preference. The great thing about that program is that you have a big more freedom in what you want to do. As long as you work the muscle pick the exercise you want to do. I use tricep pulldowns and diamond pushups.
Click to expand...

Yeah, thanks for answering :)
 
T

trab pu kcip

Member
sphinx said:
hehe, you guys don't have that in the US?



the german "Eiweiss Brot" is literally "Protein Bread"

it isn't a marvel by any means but compared to other kinds of bread it contains more protein per slice, if I remember correctly, about 14 gr each, compared to 2 or 3 grams in other types of bread I've seen in the stores.

tastes bad on its own but eat it with a pumpkin soup and it's godly.
Click to expand...

haha that's one thing germany is good for...the fucking bread
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
SquiddyBiscuit said:
I'm in the UK and have never seen this.
Would love to have this for the occasional morning cheese toast.
Click to expand...

For shame, that bread makes protein shakes almost pointless, I mean 2 slices is 28 grams, that's a lot. very easy to reach the daily goal with them.

2 or 3 slices of this, some boiled egg whites and turkey ham on top of it is my perfect breakfast.

trab pu kcip said:
haha that's one thing germany is good for...the fucking bread
Click to expand...

yeap :) that's right. dozens of different breads around, love that.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
sphinx said:
For shame, that bread makes protein shakes almost pointless, I mean 2 slices is 28 grams, that's a lot. very easy to reach the daily goal with them.

2 or 3 slices of this, some boiled egg whites and turkey ham on top of it is my perfect breakfast.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would love to be able to get proteins that easily in the morning.
It's not every morning you have time to properly cook things, and with this I could just grab two slices and spread on a rich amount of cream cheese for upwards to 50g of proteins.

Shame :(

Cudder said:
Protein powder in water

images
Click to expand...

Chocolate protein powder in water.
I need to get myself some unflavoured whey protein.
 
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