Don't overthink it. At the end of the day, building muscle requires protein, and losing weight requires a caloric deficit.
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Fitness |OT4| Squat Booty, Summer Cuts, and Super Swoletrophy
- Thread starter Mr.City
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Don't overthink it. At the end of the day, building muscle requires protein, and losing weight requires a caloric deficit.
Right. At his stage he might fall victim to analysis paralysis. Just lift some weights man.
Indeed.
While one can't "serve two masters" and Jim Wendler would say, as a fat dude, you can still eat healthy, walk for 30-40 minutes a day, and lift heavy. You'll lose weight, feel better, and get stronger.
While you can focus on a hard core fat loss diet, I wouldn't recommend it, unless you're very obese. If you're just a large guy, a healthy lifestyle will do you wonders. Six months from now you'll feel and look quite different.
While one can't "serve two masters" and Jim Wendler would say, as a fat dude, you can still eat healthy, walk for 30-40 minutes a day, and lift heavy. You'll lose weight, feel better, and get stronger.
While you can focus on a hard core fat loss diet, I wouldn't recommend it, unless you're very obese. If you're just a large guy, a healthy lifestyle will do you wonders. Six months from now you'll feel and look quite different.
Fallen_Hero
Member
Does anyone have any experience moving from Starting Strength to 5/3/1? Namely, when and why you did it?
oxrock
Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
Caloric deficit with high protein diet ftw! Essential just do low carb and you'll be good.
In other news... I jut did 50 pushups in a single set for the first time since I was 18!!!! This may not seem miraculous to most of you but bare in mind that I'm 292 lbs =p
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
You should be less worried about tonight and more worried about the next two days, bahahahahah!
the "Occupy a squat rack" shirt...I want it.
Edit: found it
http://70sbig.spreadshirt.com/occupy-a-squat-rack-A8682258
Lol nice I had just found it and edited my post but you beat me to it
Jaladinozozo
Banned
My current, updated, refined routine. Have been out of weight lifting for some time and only did kickboxing + p90x type routines + weighted vest/bodyweight routines the last year. Currently 6'1" 169 lbs. Hoping to add some solid muscle and keep my fat % where it is now, which hovers between 9-11% and keep my abs. What you guys think?
Push/Pull Split - A Push - Rest or Cardio Day - B Pull - Rest or Cardio Day - Repeat
A)
Warmup + Stretching
Dips (> = close grip, < = wide grip)
1)>16
2)<16
1)>16
2)<16
Military Press - 35lb Dumbbells x2
1)9
2)8
3)8
Bench Press - 55lb Dumbbells x2
1)9
2)9
3)9
Squat - 65lb Dumbbells x2
1)9
2)9
3)9
Rope Pushups (ropes with rings hanging from Dip Bar)
1)16
2)16
3)16
Dip Bar Leg Raises
1)20
2)15
3)15
B)
Warmup + Stretching
Pullups (> = wide grip pullups, < = close grip chinups)
1)>14
2)>12
3)>12
1)<14
2)<12
3)<12
Bent Over Rows - 55lb Dumbbells x2
1)8
2)8
3)8
Deadlift - 65lb Dumbbells x2
1)8
2)8
3)8
Laying Rope Rows (ropes with rings hanging from pullup bar)
1)9
2)9
3)8
Pullup Bar Leg Raises
1)20
2)15
3)15
Push/Pull Split - A Push - Rest or Cardio Day - B Pull - Rest or Cardio Day - Repeat
A)
Warmup + Stretching
Dips (> = close grip, < = wide grip)
1)>16
2)<16
1)>16
2)<16
Military Press - 35lb Dumbbells x2
1)9
2)8
3)8
Bench Press - 55lb Dumbbells x2
1)9
2)9
3)9
Squat - 65lb Dumbbells x2
1)9
2)9
3)9
Rope Pushups (ropes with rings hanging from Dip Bar)
1)16
2)16
3)16
Dip Bar Leg Raises
1)20
2)15
3)15
B)
Warmup + Stretching
Pullups (> = wide grip pullups, < = close grip chinups)
1)>14
2)>12
3)>12
1)<14
2)<12
3)<12
Bent Over Rows - 55lb Dumbbells x2
1)8
2)8
3)8
Deadlift - 65lb Dumbbells x2
1)8
2)8
3)8
Laying Rope Rows (ropes with rings hanging from pullup bar)
1)9
2)9
3)8
Pullup Bar Leg Raises
1)20
2)15
3)15
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
To be brutally honest, that looks like a waste of time to me.
Jaladinozozo
Banned
Why?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
It looks slapped together with no rhyme or reason. How did you come up with this?
Jaladinozozo
Banned
How do you figure no rhyme or reason? I thought it was pretty obvious. Push/Pull splits are nothing new to begin with either. Its also all compound movements.
Push - These all do your shoulders/tris/chest, and legs with squats. Combo of compound weight lifts and gymnastic movements (ring/rope pushups), all focusing the same muscles.
Rest Day
Pull - These all do your back/lats/bis, and legs/lower back with deadlifts. Combo of compound weight lifts and gymnastic movements (ring/rope pullups), all focusing the same muscles.
Rest Day
Seemed pretty reasoned and rhymed when I did it as well as putting it on paper. Being able to get a semi fullbody workout in 1, 1 hour session feels pretty great too. Its brutal and doesn't seem like a waste of time at all. But maybe you dont understand my goals or think I am trying to powerlift or something and are thrown off by the weight amounts, but keep in mind they are dumbbells not barbells, and harder to lift with. Especially squats/deads, it kills my arms/traps.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Oh, THAT's what push/pull means. Man, I've been lost until now. Carry on!
Jaladinozozo
Banned
Oh ok I get it. Because someone famous or someone you know didn't put this routine together, it has no rhyme or reason and is a waste of time...correct? I imagine replies like this are why so many people probably stay out of this thread.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
No, it looks slapped together because there's no sense of progression, why you're "warming up" the way you do, why you're doing specific exercises you do, why the number of reps/sets are the way they are or anything else. Also, why only dumbbell?
It looks (to me based off of what you've shown) like a routine a beginner puts together who had basic or lower knowledge of lifting.
I replied the way I did based off of your reply. If you want to get butthurt that's your prerogative.
Maybe someone else can help you, because I won't be replying anymore.
Jaladinozozo
Banned
"My current, updated, refined routine. Have been out of weight lifting for some time and only did kickboxing + p90x type routines + weighted vest/bodyweight routines the last year. Currently 6'1" 169 lbs. Hoping to add some solid muscle and keep my fat % where it is now, which hovers between 9-11% and keep my abs."
Only dumbbell because that is all I have in my home gym. Progression would be adding a few lbs a week to each lift, and incorporate the weighted vest into the bodyweight sets. I don't want to do big lifts with barbells anyway because I do kickboxing and am not looking to fight above middle weight or lose speed/mobility or cardio at my current weight class.
I do from both a personal adjustment and from training people. I transition as such.
Starting strength till something needs to be reset. (I do the deadlift/pull up variation versus power cleans unless I'm working with somebody playing sports)
At first reset switch to Grayskull barbell with HIIT two days a week. This has a very similar set up as 5/3/1, in that you go for broke on the last set, you're doing intense conditioning, and that it has a bit of auxiliary work in it.
Then, transfer into 5/3/1 after a few resets in GSBB.
If you want to go straight into 5/3/1, you can just calculate your 1RM using your last set of five on your lifts. However, I'd get your last bit of linear progression if you can and Grayskull is great for that.
@Jala, Barbell complexes, prowler work, and some Crossfit style interval training are going to be much better for you in terms of lowering body fat and maintaining muscle. That routine seems, quite honestly, to not really guide you anywhere. You're not going to make real gains in any direction doing the same thing with the same weights over and over again.
also, lets be clear, depth squats with a pause at the bottom, band/chain box squats, power cleans, push press/jerks, band/chain bench presses are all amazing for developing power. Size is all about diet. You're not gonna go middle weight using barbells.
muntersaur
Member
Not true at all for me but I was naturally built to maintain that fat percentage. I tried traditional bulking once and will never do it again. I know that I can reach my goal slow and steady and hover around 10%.
When I would lift weights, I too had no trouble keeping my bf% under 6-7% while gaining around 15lbs. in 3 months. But if you want to gain serious muscle, you need to make eating a second job. And that means gaining fat. Bit that's not what Jaladinozozo wants anyways.
And, Jaladinozozo, don't be afraid of stregnth routines that involve component lifts, like a 2 day Wendler routine. They aren't going to make you slower. It'll do just the opposite, in fact.
There is no way you were keeping your bodyfat at 6-7% and gaining 15 lbs of muscle in three months.
I can believe 9-11% and gaining ~5lbs of muscle, assuming you start of as an untrained male in late puberty, but the other numbers are unrealistic.
Two things. I have a relatively low body weight. Went from 140lbs. to 155lbs. at my peak. And I'm a freak (I've seen my abs from around 11 onward), and I have a physically demanding career (the dancing mostly). I knew I wasn't gaining body fat appreciably because my weight and numbers went up, but my waist size never changed. Those results aren't anywhere close to typical. That wasn't my point.
Haha, I just slapped on some of that medicinal warming cream. Feels gooooooooood.
Since you seem pretty knowledgeable about routines, what's your opinion on the method of focusing on a specific bodypart each day, i.e. Bis and tris one day, legs, chest, shoulder/back, rest, repeat.
A bodybuilder guy I know swears on that over the "full body" method or the push/pull methods.
fredrancour
Member
Part of starting strength tells you when it's time to stop doing starting strength and move on to something else. Go look at the starting strength wiki. There's a section on it.
Hey guys, I've been doing the full body starting strength routine from the OP for two weeks now, it's not much but everything is going well. I've got a few noob questions...
My trainer told me to do 6 reps instead of 5 and also advised me to do decline/incline/normal benches instead of just the normal. Also he told me to add dumbbell chest flies. Good idea?
On the subject of deadlifts, do I really just do ONE set of 5 reps? And why not 3 sets like the rest of the workouts?
On the arm days, I'm doing chin ups and lying triceps extensions, is there more I should be doing?
On the abs day, I'm doing leg raises and machine chair crunches, is there more I should be doing?
My trainer told me to do 6 reps instead of 5 and also advised me to do decline/incline/normal benches instead of just the normal. Also he told me to add dumbbell chest flies. Good idea?
On the subject of deadlifts, do I really just do ONE set of 5 reps? And why not 3 sets like the rest of the workouts?
On the arm days, I'm doing chin ups and lying triceps extensions, is there more I should be doing?
On the abs day, I'm doing leg raises and machine chair crunches, is there more I should be doing?
1. mixing benches isn't bad idea, but if you are starting weightlifting you will get great results even if you stick with normal benches.
2. deadlifts can be very taxing for your back. Better make 1 set but with proper form, then 3 sets with worse form.
3. don't add too many exercises, at least not in the beginning. Start with basics and add them if you really think you need them after few months. More exercises means you will be more tired and it will be harder to maintain good form.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Before I educated myself more I did exactly what you're proposing. I got strong as hell doing it, but I also wore myself down. I did way too much too quick. With a proper routine I was able to focus where I needed to and became a more rounded lifter (I made up the previous routine myself cobbled from other things I heard from other routines).
IMO as long as you don't go crazy, and use ideas from established routines, or even just the routine itself and see how it works with you (over months). You will be good to go. There's nothing wrong with changing a routine around to fit yourself.
That said, now that I know what I know, I would not do a bodypart specific day routine again if I could go back in time (maybe I would if I were supplementing with anabolics). I would find a really good established BB routine or a good established Strength routine, or a mix of both. It all depends on your goals.
If you're more into body building try to get in contact with Mecha or Darth in this thread. Those two guys are going to be probably the most knowledgeable about those types of programs. I'm more of a strength guy.
1. Does your personal trainer know you're trying to do Starting Strength? Does he know what it is?
2. Those other benches aren't important. I don't do decline at all and my bench is strong as hell. I will sometimes do incline though, but again, it's not important.
3. Starting strength is a beginner program. 1 set of 5 heavy deadlifts for that day doesn't include the warm up. You should do a few warm up sets before you get to your final set of 1x5. Also, deadlifts are one of the most taxing things you will do (probably the most). At this point 1x5 is all you're going to need.
4. It sounds like you altered the program. May I ask why?
Buying supplements I was given a program to follow by the store manager.
Just focusing on the hours surrounding training, I have a protein shake 1-2 hours before workout.
A small shake of BLAA 30min before + fat burners/hydroxycut.
A shake of BLAA consumed throughout workout.
Another protein shake immediately after completing workout.
I told him that I wanted a leaner look while still building muscle/strength, current BMI 26.6. I workout about 6 times a week (3 cardio, 3 strength).
This is the first time I have ever taken supplements so just wondering if the above seems reasonable?
Just focusing on the hours surrounding training, I have a protein shake 1-2 hours before workout.
A small shake of BLAA 30min before + fat burners/hydroxycut.
A shake of BLAA consumed throughout workout.
Another protein shake immediately after completing workout.
I told him that I wanted a leaner look while still building muscle/strength, current BMI 26.6. I workout about 6 times a week (3 cardio, 3 strength).
This is the first time I have ever taken supplements so just wondering if the above seems reasonable?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Yeah, watch out for those supplement store guys. They will try to sell you all kinds of bullshit. The best things you can take are protein, creatine and maybe a preworkout if you really need it. Anything else is probably BS unless you're doing IF/LG or some other protocol that calls for other supplementation.
Best bet is to research what you want to do, then talk to others doing the same thing (for a while) to be sure you aren't being scammed.
Few things.
1. BCAAs taken seperately do not assist that much. There is a slight ammount of evidence that shows they help but only minimallyu. If you're eating enough protien, then you're body with get enough BCAAs for your body to use in order to create new actin and myocin (the stuff that slides together causing movement, the stuff that builds on top of muscle fibers to make you bigger).
2. As Alien said, timing doesn't matter. While it's true that eating/drinking a shake within 30 minutes of working out helps, it's not so important as to base your entire work out around.
Thanks for the reply.
I told him about the plan but he doesn't seem to know it.
I do do the warm up for the deadlifts, so that's good. What should I aim to lift for the final set? I'm 55kg. Right now, I can lift 40kg quite easily with good form.
I just added the respective arm and abs stuff for Day 2 and 3.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Try to get him to read up on SS. Also, do you need a trainer? If not, cut him loose. Why did you feel the need to add in more work? As for deadlifts, just aim for steady progression. You should know this since you're doing SS. You've read up on it, right?
The only problem with this post is believing that lifting weights will somehow destroy your speed and mobility.
GNC store manager aren't qualified to coach shit.
Fun fact: more personal trainers don't have a degree in what they 'coach,' and like to give tips that have zero relevance to your actual training goals. Many of them are in their mid 20s and have less than 5 years actually training people.
How about showing more restraint and intelligent programming in your workouts?
I've got to clarify, he's not quite a full on personal trainer, just a one day induction thing.
I feel like I could add in abs and arms just because I want to train those areas.
I'm not exactly that tired after each workout anyway. Is it that bad of an idea?
Also I've ready pretty much everything in the OP on this thread but not the SS books if that's what you mean.
I feel like I could add in abs and arms just because I want to train those areas.
I'm not exactly that tired after each workout anyway. Is it that bad of an idea?
Also I've ready pretty much everything in the OP on this thread but not the SS books if that's what you mean.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Personally, as a beginner I would focus on getting the main work done and properly, then as you progress, add in more shit.
You should probably read the book. It's only $10 on amazon.
Read the book. The info in the OP is a beginners guide, but the meat and potatoes of what you need is still in the book.
DOMS!!!!!!!!
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