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Fitness |OT6| Defying gravity, Quest madness, and Muscle Shaming

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How so? You mean just start over and follow the guideline posted? I'm considering it but the gym I go to is shit so it might not have all the necessary equipment I need to perform some of the recommended exercises. I'm almost sure there's no equipment for a dead lift.

All you need is a barbell and some weights for a DL. If they don't have that it's not a gym.

edit: On the topic of DLs, went maybe a bit too hard tonight. Felt a twinge in my lower back on the third rep so I stopped. Should have increased by 5 lbs, not 10. Doh.
 

entremet

Member
How so? You mean just start over and follow the guideline posted? I'm considering it but the gym I go to is shit so it might not have all the necessary equipment I need to perform some of the recommended exercises. I'm almost sure there's no equipment for a dead lift.

What are your lifts? How much can you bench, squat, and dead lift?

What program were you following for a year?
 
How so? You mean just start over and follow the guideline posted? I'm considering it but the gym I go to is shit so it might not have all the necessary equipment I need to perform some of the recommended exercises. I'm almost sure there's no equipment for a dead lift.
sorry about the wall of text but there will be no shortage of pithy responses so I might as well be the longwinded one:

Beginner vs intermediate vs advance is determined not by amount you can lift or time since you first touched a weight but by how fast you can improve performance (usually improved performance = adding new weight). This is because the question "how fast can you get better?" is actually providing the information "how close to your max genetic potential are you?" If you have more room left to improve you can go very very fast. A dude really close to his potential limits could have to bust his ass on a month-long cycle involving a dozen workouts to add 10 pounds to a lift. A beginner could add 10 pounds to his squat from one workout to the next with only a single recovery day in-between the two.

GAF will dislike the workout you posted because the logic behind workouts that look like that usually boils down to "Splits are how lifting works right? my friends do a leg day and a back day and crap like that. I'll do that too. Also I'll run sometimes. Running is healthy right?"

Proper full body strength training workouts benefit pretty much any conceivable goal even if a person only sticks to them for a month or two, whether that goal is "get buffer," "lose weight," "get enough exercise to maintain my current weight and fitness level," "get stronger just because I want to be stronger," "increase my baseline strength as a precursor to specific training in some sport," "fix my shitty posture," or"rehab an injury" (though this last one often requires modifications to normal programs obviously). If any part of that list makes no sense, ask and people will hopefully elaborate.

The fitness thread strongly encourages anyone who posts here to consider an actual program instead. The only reasons for someone who stands to benefit from a more legit training to avoid it is either "barbells sound scary" or "the way I'm doing things now is so much fun that it is its own reward and I don't care about long term progress."

You said your goal was weight loss. People will passionately advocate the best way to achieve that goal, even if it initially sounds like they're being dicks.

If posters sound impatient it's because people routinely discuss their fitness goals with the ironclad belief of "the random stuff i put together out of conventional wisdom could not possibly be wrong." A lot of the most common complaints that are said in response to "do a real training program instead" are even pre-empted by the OP if people read it more often.

Unfortunately, most people get nowhere with that train of thought because conventional wisdom about health and fitness is really, really terrible and inaccurate.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Ghost didn't fuck with me tonight. Stay sleeping FallingEdge. Get out of my dreams.
 

entremet

Member
sorry about the wall of text but there will be no shortage of pithy responses so I might as well be the longwinded one:

Beginner vs intermediate vs advance is determined not by amount you can lift or time since you first touched a weight but by how fast you can improve performance (usually improved performance = adding new weight). This is because the question "how fast can you get better?" is actually providing the information "how close to your max genetic potential are you?" If you have more room left to improve you can go very very fast. A dude really close to his potential limits could have to bust his ass on a month-long cycle involving a dozen workouts to add 10 pounds to a lift. A beginner could add 10 pounds to his squat from one workout to the next with only a single recovery day in-between the two.

GAF will dislike the workout you posted because the logic behind workouts that look like that usually boils down to "Splits are how lifting works right? my friends do a leg day and a back day and crap like that. I'll do that too. Also I'll run sometimes. Running is healthy right?"

Proper full body strength training workouts benefit pretty much any conceivable goal even if a person only sticks to them for a month or two, whether that goal is "get buffer," "lose weight," "get enough exercise to maintain my current weight and fitness level," "get stronger just because I want to be stronger," "increase my baseline strength as a precursor to specific training in some sport," "fix my shitty posture," or"rehab an injury" (though this last one often requires modifications to normal programs obviously). If any part of that list makes no sense, ask and people will hopefully elaborate.

The fitness thread strongly encourages anyone who posts here to consider an actual program instead. The only reasons for someone who stands to benefit from a more legit training to avoid it is either "barbells sound scary" or "the way I'm doing things now is so much fun that it is its own reward and I don't care about long term progress."

You said your goal was weight loss. People will passionately advocate the best way to achieve that goal, even if it initially sounds like they're being dicks.

If posters sound impatient it's because people routinely discuss their fitness goals with the ironclad belief of "the random stuff i put together out of conventional wisdom could not possibly be wrong." A lot of the most common complaints that are said in response to "do a real training program instead" are even pre-empted by the OP if people read it more often.

Unfortunately, most people get nowhere with that train of thought because conventional wisdom about health and fitness is really, really terrible and inaccurate.

This is great post.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
How so? You mean just start over and follow the guideline posted? I'm considering it but the gym I go to is shit so it might not have all the necessary equipment I need to perform some of the recommended exercises. I'm almost sure there's no equipment for a dead lift.

I've been doing this going on 4 years now. I'm still a beginner. Once you recognize you know jack shit you can continue to improve. Once you think you know everything, you stop progressing.

I wouldn't consider myself "not a beginner" until I had 5+ years under he bar and even then I'd definitely not be an expert.

The only thing you are is moving out of "untrained" territory to some degree. Hubris has no place in the iron game unless you truly earn it.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
What the fuck is this ghost shit?

Ever since OT6 people have been getting struck down with injury. The only answer is it's a Fitness Ghost that's haunting our OT. Be aware, everyone is injury-prone until we hit OT7. Make sure to give the Fitness Ghost respect too.

Li4kZNh.png
 
Ever since OT6 people have been getting struck down with injury. The only answer is it's a Fitness Ghost that's haunting our OT. Be aware, everyone is injury-prone until we hit OT7. Make sure to give the Fitness Ghost respect too.

Li4kZNh.png

Fuck fitGhost, I ain't afraid of someone who can't even lift 10lbs.
 

moocow

Member
I hate hate hate barbell bench press because of the fact that I need a spotter. I held it off as long as I could but I got caught under the bar, which was super embarrassing , on my third set of 5 at 235 a couple weeks back.

Today I ask a guy to spot me, but just to make sure I don't drop the bar on myself. I repeat twice that I don't need help on the liftoff. Not only does he yank the bar up and forward, but he pulls his hands out and that leaves me wasting my energy trying to correct the bar, which came awfully close to falling down on my lower ribs.

This is making me miss dumbell bench, but I think that would slow down my progression.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I get really annoyed when I see a mike chang ad on youtube. Dude is disingenuous at best and a scam artist at worst. sixpackshortcuts lol
 

Noema

Member
What advantage do barbells have, do you think?

I've been considering switching to dumbbells, just because I'm kind of scared about upping the weight with a barbell and no spotter.

You can't really do a linear progression with dumbbells, at least not for very long since most gyms have dumbbells that increase in 5lb increments, thus you are adding 10lb to the movement per jump. That's unsustainable. With barbells you can go up in 1lb increments if need be if you get small enough plates.

Also, barbells allow you to move more weight, which means more overall muscle mass at work and more CNS work as well. Beginners should focus on barbell bench while intermediates can probably use DB bench as assistance.

Not to say DB bench press isn't good or anything, it's just that for strength building purposes barbell bench is probably superior for the reasons stated above. That's why we prefer Barbell OHP too.

Do you have access to a power rack? You can always bench there if you don't have a spotter.

I get really annoyed when I see a mike chang ad on youtube. Dude is disingenuous at best and a scam artist at worst. sixpackshortcuts lol

I hate that fucker. He's basically what spawns from the ooze when you mix an MBA in marketing with steroids. His ads seem to pop up everywhere for me, even in GAF. Worst ones are the "Trainers HATE him!" while he's shown eating cake with a stupid grin.
 

J. Bravo

Member
I'm doing 531 and am thinking about adding some arm workouts. I like the pump. Should I do arms Friday after squats, or Saturday night? Either one works since I can get a good pump and hit the parties/bars after. If I do them on sat, would that hinder my recovery for ohp on Monday too much?
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
Ever since OT6 people have been getting struck down with injury. The only answer is it's a Fitness Ghost that's haunting our OT. Be aware, everyone is injury-prone until we hit OT7. Make sure to give the Fitness Ghost respect too.

Li4kZNh.png

Ghost is real.

During OT6 I have had more niggles from lifting than ever before - inflamed delts from too much work on them, strained crotch from lunge gone wrong and hemorrhoid from too hard leg curls.

OT7 can't come soon enough.
 

Stannis

Member
I'm doing 531 and am thinking about adding some arm workouts. I like the pump. Should I do arms Friday after squats, or Saturday night? Either one works since I can get a good pump and hit the parties/bars after. If I do them on sat, would that hinder my recovery for ohp on Monday too much?

IMO it doesn't matter too much where you throw in some arm assistance work.
 

entremet

Member
You can't really do a linear progression with dumbbells, at least not for very long since most gyms have dumbbells that increase in 5lb increments, thus you are adding 10lb to the movement per jump. That's unsustainable. With barbells you can go up in 1lb increments if need be if you get small enough plates.

Also, barbells allow you to move more weight, which means more overall muscle mass at work and more CNS work as well. Beginners should focus on barbell bench while intermediates can probably use DB bench as assistance.

Not to say DB bench press isn't good or anything, it's just that for strength building purposes barbell bench is probably superior for the reasons stated above. That's why we prefer Barbell OHP too.

Do you have access to a power rack? You can always bench there if you don't have a spotter.



I hate that fucker. He's basically what spawns from the ooze when you mix an MBA in marketing with steroids. His ads seem to pop up everywhere for me, even in GAF. Worst ones are the "Trainers HATE him!" while he's shown eating cake with a stupid grin.

He has another spot called Mikechangcheats lol. It's basically him mocking that he may be on gear as a lame joke. Where does the dude get the ad dollars?
 

Szu

Member
Ever since OT6 people have been getting struck down with injury. The only answer is it's a Fitness Ghost that's haunting our OT. Be aware, everyone is injury-prone until we hit OT7. Make sure to give the Fitness Ghost respect too.

Li4kZNh.png

I'm not sure if it's a sad mouth or Hulk Hogan mustache.
 

Linkhero1

Member
Thank you guys for the feedback. I'm currently looking for a new gym and going to stick with a program. I just have to make sure it fits within my budget. When you guys say split day you mean split workouts into categories such as back, chest, etc., correct? I'm going to remedy that asap.
 

El Daniel

Member
I got a squat question.

I've learned that your knees are not allowed to surpass your toes. How important is this?

In instruction videos I don't see people do that.
 

Chocobro

Member
I got a squat question.

I've learned that your knees are not allowed to surpass your toes. How important is this?

In instruction videos I don't see people do that.
Knees going past your toe is OK I think. It's natural for your body to maintain balance. If you look at the SS wiki for the comparison picture of front/high bar/low bar squat, the knees are past the toe. I would quote the picture in my post but Dolphin Mini Is stupid when I want to paste stuff.

EDIT: Since I got back home to use my computer.
 

Valus

Member
I would like some tips if possible. I'm tall (6'4") and skinny (195 lbs) and pretty weak as crap. Been doing crossfit (I know I know) this entire year and it's been pretty good overall. When I started this back in January I clocked in at 140 lbs and hadn't really ever worked out before.

So I know I've improved overall but I feel like I'm plateauing. My weight gain has slowed significantly despite my diet not changing (roughly 4k calories a day) and I'm not sure why. Do I seriously need to add even more calories or is this just how it is? I still feel like I have a long way to go and it's frustrating to be having these issues already.

I picked up Starting Strength as I feel like crossfit isn't giving me the gains I want. I'm reading through it slowly and plan on doing the program but I'd like some tips.

1) My bench is really weak. My 1RM is only 125. Should I just hit the program with the low weight and start moving up? Should I be spending some time doing push ups to just build up some basic strength?

2) I have a hard time keeping my chest up when I squat. It's gotten better since I started earlier this year but I'm still struggling. Also I can't get my ass to the grass if my life depended on it. Is this a mobility issue? Any pointers on how to get more depth while maintaining my balance (I always start to fall back when I go too low) as well as keeping my chest up?

3) I'm using my lower back too much when I deadlift. Same with the squat...it's hard for me to get that depth while keeping my chest up/maintaining dat lumbar curve. It's gotten better since I started but it's still not perfect. I don't know if my height has anything to do with it or not so I'm just looking for tips.

Re-posting questions for new page.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Re-posting questions for new page.

1. Bench takes time, usually your first experience with a plateau is near your own bodyweight. Don't bother with pushups. Just bench.

2. How much are you squatting? If it's anything significant, you should step back and focus on form more than weight and work back up with good form. Low bar or high bar?

3. Same as above - how much are you deadlifting?
 

steveovig

Member
I'm currently doing 5/3/1 and I'm enjoying it a lot. However, I have a tendency to crunch days together during deload week so I don't have to go to the gym as much that week. I'll combine bench and OHP into one day and do some accessory work afterwards. Is this a big deal to do or is it harmful/will it affect me in any real way? I only really do this on deload week.
 

J. Bravo

Member
One of my friends said she's going to start squatting with me. So we went upstairs after work last night, and her form is not very good. How can I help her fix it, and what weight should we start at? She's like 5'3" 115.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
One of my friends said she's going to start squatting with me. So we went upstairs after work last night, and her form is not very good. How can I help her fix it, and what weight should we start at? She's like 5'3" 115.

Just the bar. Work on form, weight comes later.
 

Chocobro

Member
One of my friends said she's going to start squatting with me. So we went upstairs after work last night, and her form is not very good. How can I help her fix it, and what weight should we start at? She's like 5'3" 115.
What are some of the problems with her form?
Probably start with wall squats (facing the wall, OmarIsuf demonstrates it in his how to squat video), then BW squats, and then start with an empty bar. I'm sure the others will have more to say.
 

J. Bravo

Member
Well her form is great with a ten on there. Past that, her knees start to cave a bit, she falls forward slightly. Oh and she does not have straight wrists and can't put her arms very wide. Idk if that's normal, but to me it looks painful as fuck.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Well her form is great with a ten on there. Past that, her knees start to cave a bit, she falls forward slightly. Oh and she does not have straight wrists and can't put her arms very wide. Idk if that's normal, but to me it looks painful as fuck.

Hmm. It falls apart from 10 and on? Sounds like it maaaay be a balance issue?
 

Valus

Member
1. Bench takes time, usually your first experience with a plateau is near your own bodyweight. Don't bother with pushups. Just bench.

2. How much are you squatting? If it's anything significant, you should step back and focus on form more than weight and work back up with good form. Low bar or high bar?

3. Same as above - how much are you deadlifting?

1RM squat is 195, high bar. 1RM DL is 245. So basically just bring it all down and work back up, huh?
 
I'm currently doing 5/3/1 and I'm enjoying it a lot. However, I have a tendency to crunch days together during deload week so I don't have to go to the gym as much that week. I'll combine bench and OHP into one day and do some accessory work afterwards. Is this a big deal to do or is it harmful/will it affect me in any real way? I only really do this on deload week.

You can do 5/3/1 in either a 4-day/week, 3-day/week, or 2-day/week routine. In the book, it actually suggests if you're on a 2-day/week routine, don't even do the deload week. If you're on a 3-day/week routine, it recommends combining deadlift/OHP days into one day, and then doing bench and squats on their own days. For 4-day/week, it just recommends sticking to the schedule.

Anyway, in my opinion, if you combine two of your four days on the deload week you're totally fine. If you have an exceptionally rough week for some reason (lack of sleep, bad diet, whatever) I'd recommend not combining them personally to get a bit of extra recovery in over the course of the deload week.
 

J. Bravo

Member
Hmm. It falls apart from 10 and on? Sounds like it maaaay be a balance issue?
yeah she can squat 65 np, but then form dies. Her back and shoulders are so messed up though. If it was up to me, I would have her do a month of corrective exercises for her back mostly, while learning proper squat technique. But she's not paying me, Nd she wants a better butt lol.


I'll probably have her start with box squats and just the bar then work from there.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
yeah she can squat 65 np, but then form dies. Her back and shoulders are so messed up though. If it was up to me, I would have her do a month of corrective exercises for her back mostly, while learning proper squat technique. But she's not paying me, Nd she wants a better butt lol.


I'll probably have her start with box squats and just the bar then work from there.

What kind of squats? Is she doing high bar, low bar, etc? Maybe a different squat will do her good, feel more natural.
 

Chocobro

Member
Well her form is great with a ten on there. Past that, her knees start to cave a bit, she falls forward slightly. Oh and she does not have straight wrists and can't put her arms very wide. Idk if that's normal, but to me it looks painful as fuck.
If you have access to resistance bands, you can have her perform a drill to help fix her knees caving in. Have it wrapped around both above her knees and her goal is to push her knees out while squatting (take a look at OmarIsuf 's squat tutorial video if my description isn't good enough).

I assume she's doing high bar? Oogie's tip for high bar squats that helped me was to sit between your legs, not sit back as you would in a low bar squat; maybe that's why she falls forward? Another tip is to have her concentrate on something in front of her/chest up?
I don't know what to say about the wrist not being straight. Lack of upper back tightness creating a weak platform for the bar to rest on, thus causing her to hold it in place with her hand/wrist?

Someone page Noema pronto.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Oh man. My brother-in-law is in town and we are going to catch a movie and some lunch. He's a big time stoner and I know he'll be disappointed if I don't partake. If I do, it will be bad news for me in a movie theater with all that delicious goodness. Must. Stay. Strong.
 

J. Bravo

Member
What kind of squats? Is she doing high bar, low bar, etc? Maybe a different squat will do her good, feel more natural.
Yeah she's doing high bar, because that's all I know how to do/teach. I might ask our gym's resident powerlifter for some tips on low bar.
If you have access to resistance bands, you can have her perform a drill to help fix her knees caving in. Have it wrapped around both above her knees and her goal is to push her knees out while squatting (take a look at OmarIsuf 's squat tutorial video if my description isn't good enough).

I assume she's doing high bar? Oogie's tip for high bar squats that helped me was to sit between your legs, not sit back as you would in a low bar squat; maybe that's why she falls forward? Another tip is to have her concentrate on something in front of her/chest up?
I don't know what to say about the wrist not being straight. Lack of upper back tightness creating a weak platform for the bar to rest on, thus causing her to hold it in place with her hand/wrist?

Someone page Noema pronto.

yeah high bar. We only had a few minutes last night which definitely did not help with teaching form, but yeah her upper back was super loose. I honestly couldn't feel any muscle tension when I poked it while she was flexing away from the bar, which is why I want her to start actually lifting. Her posture is horrible which I'm sure is doing her no favors.
Oh man. My brother-in-law is in town and we are going to catch a movie and some lunch. He's a big time stoner and I know he'll be disappointed if I don't partake. If I do, it will be bad news for me in a movie theater with all that delicious goodness. Must. Stay. Strong.


cooter, stop being a pansy, smoke, and eat everything in sight.
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
What are the best earphones for the gym. I need earphones that sound good and don't fall out.

I bought some cheapo phones from Amazon and they're horrendous - they fall out even if I sit down!
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
cooter, stop being a pansy, smoke, and eat everything in sight.
You don't understand. My appetite while high is legendary. I'm a bottomless pit. It will take me at least 3 or 4 days of clean eating to get it off.

I do have squats and racquetball later today so that is a plus!
 

abuC

Member
You don't understand. My appetite while high is legendary. I'm a bottomless pit. It will take me at least 3 or 4 days of clean eating to get it off.

I do have squats and racquetball later today so that is a plus!


Eat a bunch of steaks while you're high, problem solved!
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
Get. On. My. LEVEL.

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1390555_10202419183191857_790476743_n.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

I could deadlift 600 lbs too if I had a beard like that, just saying.


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aTo1BigV_Q&t=1m5s"]Bryce Lewis just hit 700 lb deadlift and he's rocking the leprechaun beard of peace[/URL]

mike tuscherer, also growin a beard, deads over 800lbs

There is a direct correlation, this isn't broscience.
 
You don't understand. My appetite while high is legendary. I'm a bottomless pit. It will take me at least 3 or 4 days of clean eating to get it off.

I do have squats and racquetball later today so that is a plus!

Release the kraken I'd say.

The occassion justifies it.
 
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