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Fitness |OT6| Defying gravity, Quest madness, and Muscle Shaming

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Bought some sausage, bacon, and avocados. Had an avocado for breakfast. All aboard the good fats train. choo chooooo

How much fat are we suppose to consume anyway?

Over the weekend my wife asked what I wanted for food this week, and I said protein and fat. Came home last night to two roast chickens popping out of the oven with lemon slices crammed under the crispy, translucent skin. Got out big plates of lettuce, added chicken meat, avocado, and some crumbled bacon that we cooked up. Then took the lemon / chicken fat drippings from the roasting pan, added some spices and red wine vinegar and made a dressing to top the salad off with. So dang good.

Having an SO who loves to cook is such an awesome thing. I could never do the junk food bulk diets that some of y'all do, I love food too much to eat just for macros.
 
wait, you didn't know? Technically it's even better than that... 1g fat = 9 calories. 1g carb = 4 calories. So if you take out 2g of carbs and replace it with 1g of fat, you come out ahead 1 calorie. :p

No I am dumb. I was just thinking purely of grams and not total calories.

In any case, thanks!
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
See you later insulin resistance.

actually other way around.

insulin resistance = bad
insulin sensitive = good

resistant means your cells are resistant to insulin handling of glucose and thus it is turned to fat.

sensitive means your cells are sensitive to insulin handling of glucose and thus it's converted to stored energy first and fat as a left over.

people with type 2 diabetes are typically insulin resistant.
 

APF

Member
Just a note re increasing fat intake on a bulking phase: if you're eating over maintenance, something along the lines of 85-95% of fat calories you consume will be stored, and not used for energy/etc.
 

blackflag

Member
Just a note re increasing fat intake on a bulking phase: if you're eating over maintenance, something along the lines of 85-95% of fat calories you consume will be stored, and not used for energy/etc.

I don't believe this is true. It depends on a lot of things.
 

keezy

Member
actually other way around.

insulin resistance = bad
insulin sensitive = good

resistant means your cells are resistant to insulin handling of glucose and thus it is turned to fat.

sensitive means your cells are sensitive to insulin handling of glucose and thus it's converted to stored energy first and fat as a left over.

people with type 2 diabetes are typically insulin resistant.

Oops. Yeah that's my mistake.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Just a note re increasing fat intake on a bulking phase: if you're eating over maintenance, something along the lines of 85-95% of fat calories you consume will be stored, and not used for energy/etc.

eh sort of/not really. in talking about REPLACING carbs with fat, especially in a high carb load, the fat is STILL less susceptible to being turned into body fat than the excess carbs are, and won't lead to insulin spikes, insulin resistance, fatty liver, etc. biggest problem with replacing the carbs is... it's just tough as shit to eat significant fat/protein past maintenance.. you literally have to force yourself, as opposed to just popping a couple of sodas and getting 175 calories per can.

edit - obviously there is more to it than that still. What kind of fats are we talking (saturated, omega-6, omega-3, etc) how much above maintenance, how many carbs, etc. Still, overall it is better for your body even during bulking the more carbs you replace with fat. Unfortunately that ratio is inversely correlated with how easy it is to bulk. Lower carb, harder to bulk, smaller rise in BF%. Higher carb, easier to bulk, higher rise in BF%. Even that is breaking it down too simply, but isn't the worst rule of thumb.

edit 2 - and obviously genetics. doh. if you are normally extremely insulin sensitive (like many asians, indians, etc) obviously you can handle a much different carb load than say many native southwestern american indians who basically can't handle ANY sort of simple carb load. and such.
 

APF

Member
biggest problem with replacing the carbs is... it's just tough as shit to eat significant fat/protein past maintenance.. you literally have to force yourself, as opposed to just popping a couple of sodas and getting 175 calories per can.

We're just looking at this from a different perspective. I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone trying to gain muscle mass, who is keeping track of their calories and is purposefully consuming a caloric excess. I talked about this in the bulking thread a few days ago. Yes, it's hard to eat a huge caloric excess of fat w/o carbs. Yes, overconsumption of carbs will likely lead to insulin insensitivity. But that doesn't change the basic fact that in a caloric excess, a huge portion of the fat you consume gets stored. That's just basic biology.

Edit: your edits are only addressing carbs being stored, not fats.
 

Chocobro

Member
looks like youre squatting lowbar, but with a highbar setup.

Yeah. With high-bar, you ought to go deeper, and one way to do that is by thinking about sitting down between your legs instead of sitting back as you would during a low-bar squat.

Thanks for pointing that out you two. I never thought of that, Boogie. I believeI was sitting back more in the form check video I posted in response to my friend saying my knees were going too far forward in a form check video I recorded on Friday, but didn't post here. Looks like I'll follow CanditoTrainingHQ's squat video more closely than OmarIsuf's video and sit down between my legs.

Edit: From what I'm piecing together, I may have been doing more of a hybrid squat. Is that bad for a beginner?
 

blackflag

Member
Carb cycling. I bought one of Shelby Starnes' ebooks and used it as my template for this past offseason.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...e_nutrition/a_beginners_guide_to_carb_cycling

I'm going to do the same thing this offseason but tweak my carb intake to be centered around my works(pre/peri/post).

Interesting. I'll definitely check it out. I never thought about carb cycling for bulking.

I did pay a contest prep guy during my last cut and we used carb cycling and I had insane results with no cardio so I believe in it for sure.
 
Does anyone have any stretching exercises to help get into the low-bar squat position, a la Rippetoe style?

I'm trying to pretzel into it with no luck...I cannot rotate my wrists to get it straight as needed...my upper body flexibility/mobility sux lol =(
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
We're just looking at this from a different perspective. I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone trying to gain muscle mass, who is keeping track of their calories and is purposefully consuming a caloric excess. I talked about this in the bulking thread a few days ago. Yes, it's hard to eat a huge caloric excess of fat w/o carbs. Yes, overconsumption of carbs will likely lead to insulin insensitivity. But that doesn't change the basic fact that in a caloric excess, a huge portion of the fat you consume gets stored. That's just basic biology.

well technically almost ALL excess fat/carb grams get turned into fat, regardless. The amount of glucose converted to glycogen is actually pretty small (a couple hundred grams at most usually). And "converted to fat" isn't even a bad thing. I mean you are going to gain fat even if your BF% stays even (for every pound of muscle you end up gaining a correlating amount of fat).

I'll leave it at "too each their own" and "whatever works", I was just commenting on his carb load of like 600g. I can't believe for a second that even just over a bulking phase that that wouldn't lead to some pretty ugly blood work.
 

APF

Member
well technically almost ALL excess fat/carb grams get turned into fat, regardless. The amount of glucose converted to glycogen is actually pretty small (a couple hundred grams at most usually). And "converted to fat" isn't even a bad thing. I mean you are going to gain fat even if your BF% stays even (for every pound of muscle you end up gaining a correlating amount of fat).

I'll leave it at "too each their own" and "whatever works", I was just commenting on his carb load of like 600g. I can't believe for a second that even just over a bulking phase that that wouldn't lead to some pretty ugly blood work.

Again, I'm not saying anything more than what actually happens. I'm not saying it's healthy or anything remotely like that, because it's not. Eating in caloric excess for a prolonged period of time is 100% not healthy, be it from fats or proteins or carbs or whatever (but better protein than the others). If your main concern is health, you're better off eating maintenance levels or lower; although the gains will be even slower than average for a natural trainee, you'll eventually recomp to some degree, because the energetic requirements for muscle building are actually pretty low. Bulking is more about ensuring that energetic requirement is fulfilled while also creating an anabolic hormonal environment.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Again, I'm not saying anything more than what actually happens. I'm not saying it's healthy or anything remotely like that, because it's not. Eating in caloric excess for a prolonged period of time is 100% not healthy, be it from fats or proteins or carbs or whatever (but better protein than the others). If your main concern is health, you're better off eating maintenance levels or lower; although the gains will be even slower than average for a natural trainee, you'll eventually recomp to some degree, because the energetic requirements for muscle building are actually pretty low. Bulking is more about ensuring that energetic requirement is fulfilled while also creating an anabolic hormonal environment.

100% agreed.
 

bumpkin

Member
I haven't really checked in much over the past few months, but I'm happy to say that my progress continues. While I don't have any specific idea of muscle mass gains, I can definitely tell that I've been losing weight and gaining mass; and everybody says you can't do both at the same time. Pfft!

The progress has been something like this:

May: 190 lbs
June: 182 lbs
July: 174 lbs
August: 172 lbs
September: 170 lbs

I've been sticking to a caloric intake halfway between my BMR and TDEE, and trying to consume as close to 0.7g of protein per pound of body weight as I can. I keep the weekend (Sat & Sun) as my "cheat days" where I throw the calorie counting out the window. So far it's worked as I haven't really hit any insurmountable plateau on my losses; I'd be willing to bet that if I wasn't gaining muscle, my losses would be higher.

It's kind of weird... I have noticed my gut getting smaller, but it's almost like as I trim down, the remaining fat is chilling closer to the middle bottom of my abdomen. I've gone down at least 4 inches in pants size, resulting in having to buy new jeans and literally being at the smallest possible hole on my belt.

Might be time to start workin' the abs hard and help them suckers peek through. I have no delusions about getting the elusive 6-pack, but I'd be happy with 2-4 well-defined muscles. :D
 
Over the weekend my wife asked what I wanted for food this week, and I said protein and fat. Came home last night to two roast chickens popping out of the oven with lemon slices crammed under the crispy, translucent skin. Got out big plates of lettuce, added chicken meat, avocado, and some crumbled bacon that we cooked up. Then took the lemon / chicken fat drippings from the roasting pan, added some spices and red wine vinegar and made a dressing to top the salad off with. So dang good.

Having an SO who loves to cook is such an awesome thing. I could never do the junk food bulk diets that some of y'all do, I love food too much to eat just for macros.

Oh don't get me wrong. That meal you described sounds delicious and I be all in. That being said, I still need to eat in addition to that and ice cream is always a nice fit.

And thanks for the info everyone. Still reading and doing research on my own. I know that I am prolly eating more than I need to and am gaining a fair amount of fat but in the end, it will all work itself out.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Oh don't get me wrong. That meal you described sounds delicious and I be all in. That being said, I still need to eat in addition to that and ice cream is always a nice fit.

And thanks for the info everyone. Still reading and doing research on my own. I know that I am prolly eating more than I need to and am gaining a fair amount of fat but in the end, it will all work itself out.

Yes it will! You're going to be huge with this mentality FE! Good on you.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/26/drug-mimics-exercise-sr9009-_n_3817301.html

Exercise in pill form

smh


The applications for this are amazing, but so are the possible abuses.

I suspect this is still a good 7 years from existing in a legal, consumer-available form, assuming no major setbacks and it works just as easily on humans. Interesting research though, no doubt. I admit, if I could take a pill that'd get me as healthy and as strong as traditional weightlifting would do, I'd strongly consider it.
 

blackflag

Member
I suspect this is still a good 7 years from existing in a legal, consumer-available form, assuming no major setbacks and it works just as easily on humans. Interesting research though, no doubt. I admit, if I could take a pill that'd get me as healthy and as strong as traditional weightlifting would do, I'd strongly consider it.

I wonder if research chem sites will pick it up.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I suspect this is still a good 7 years from existing in a legal, consumer-available form, assuming no major setbacks and it works just as easily on humans. Interesting research though, no doubt. I admit, if I could take a pill that'd get me as healthy and as strong as traditional weightlifting would do, I'd strongly consider it.

I doubt it will ever be consumer ready, but maybe. It'll be black market for sure though, maybe even before it's commercially viable assuming it ever is. I can see this being good for bed ridden people and severely obese or medically unable bodied people.


we'll probably see records broken in endurance athlete competitions in the near future as this effects slow twitch muscle fibers.
 

fasterthanu

Neo Member
Does anyone have any stretching exercises to help get into the low-bar squat position, a la Rippetoe style?

I'm trying to pretzel into it with no luck...I cannot rotate my wrists to get it straight as needed...my upper body flexibility/mobility sux lol =(

I had this same issue about a month ago when I started squatting and it was very frustrating. For me the biggest help was fixing my crappy posture from years of slouching playing video games and in school. So yeah, fix your posture: shoulders back, chest out, arms tucked in toward your sides; if you hold a pencil in your hand with your arms by your sides it should face relatively straight forward, and not inward toward the center of your body. It will take quite a bit of conscious effort at first but after a week of two you should become very used to proper posture. I was able to squat properly fairly quickly after doing this. I also do a stretch where I put my arms up at right angles and try to pull them together (kind of hard to explain) and face pulls as well; fixing my internally rotated shoulders/ bad posture was more of a factor than the exercises though. You will have to be very aware of your posture for the next few weeks whether sitting or standing because it is easy to relapse into bad habits.
 

blackflag

Member
thanks dood.

and getting a physical on Thursday. Full blown blood work, cholesterol, testosterone, etc. I'm sure my insides are terrible =/

Possibly not, genetics plays a big part. My Total cholesterol hovers around 97 and my good cholesterol around 69.

I get all of that stuff tested monthly.
 
been cutting for the past 2 months and I've barely lost 10 pounds

fuck this shit! I'm coming back to hang with my bulking bros. Started growing me beard to hide the incoming double chin
 

sphinx

the piano man
dear fit-gaf, did i injure myself in my last squat session?

I broke the PR but the next day I started developing some sort of pain or discomfort that starts at the middle of my right rid and extends around my core in a round form to my back, only on my right side, it feels weird because if I stay still and do nothing, I don't feel pain or discomfort but when I stretch in certain ways and when I touch the parts, it does feel wrong.

Did I injure a rib bone?? I can't seem to find the origin of it

I thought it was maybe a bad position while sleeping or while practicing piano but I think it was the last squat 5X3, it really was heavy and it felt like I was really approaching a physical limit

are the symptoms typical for a squat injury perhaps??? I have no idea, I'd never feel anything like that.

any info will be appreciated.
 

J. Bravo

Member
I've beaten the FitGhost back!
No more deep fried squid here, I'm back in tip-top health.

oh my gosh I completely forgot about the fit ghost. I remember saying that I wasn't going to be injured (probably 5 or 6 weeks ago), so instead, the ghost laid me up with mono and I ended up in the hospital for a day, while losing pretty much all my gains in the process :(

315 for 5 on deadlift was freaking hard today. Before sickness I was at 390 for 1..
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
oh my gosh I completely forgot about the fit ghost. I remember saying that I wasn't going to be injured (probably 5 or 6 weeks ago), so instead, the ghost laid me up with mono and I ended up in the hospital for a day, while losing pretty much all my gains in the process :(

BUT THEN

dear fit-gaf, did i injure myself in my last squat session?

I broke the PR but the next day I started developing some sort of pain or discomfort that starts at the middle of my right rid and extends around my core in a round form to my back, only on my right side, it feels weird because if I stay still and do nothing, I don't feel pain or discomfort but when I stretch in certain ways and when I touch the parts, it does feel wrong.

Did I injure a rib bone?? I can't seem to find the origin of it

I thought it was maybe a bad position while sleeping or while practicing piano but I think it was the last squat 5X3, it really was heavy and it felt like I was really approaching a physical limit

are the symptoms typical for a squat injury perhaps??? I have no idea, I'd never feel anything like that.

any info will be appreciated.

FUCK
 

Cudder

Member
been cutting for the past 2 months and I've barely lost 10 pounds

fuck this shit! I'm coming back to hang with my bulking bros. Started growing me beard to hide the incoming double chin

how much do you expect to lose in 2 months? 10 lbs is pretty good
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Does anyone have any stretching exercises to help get into the low-bar squat position, a la Rippetoe style?

I'm trying to pretzel into it with no luck...I cannot rotate my wrists to get it straight as needed...my upper body flexibility/mobility sux lol =(
Are you using a thumbless grip? If not, do so.
 

sphinx

the piano man

and the next day, I had to first try every exercise and see if it would trigger the pain....

pull-ups were o.k but anything that requires me laying on a bench is not possible, it feels terrible.

tomorrow is chest so I don't know what's gonna happen....I think I will "fuck around" with whatever I can do if I can't bench.

I prefer that to hand/wrist injuries though...
 
how much do you expect to lose in 2 months? 10 lbs is pretty good

ehhh I guess it has to do more with me not liking the way it makes me look. It was making me feel smaller all around and it wasn't working towards helping me reach my goal body. of this
Tom-Hardy-Warrior.jpg


I definitely need to put on a lot more muscle instead of concentrating on losing body fat right now
 
ehhh I guess it has to do more with me not liking the way it makes me look. It was making me feel smaller all around and it wasn't working towards helping me reach my goal body. of this
Tom-Hardy-Warrior.jpg


I definitely need to put on a lot more muscle instead of concentrating on losing body fat right now

what are your current stats?

also hardy drugs blah blah blah
 
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