mdsfx
Member
So muscle loss during a cutting phase only happens during a prolonged cut?
Side note: being under 10% is quite a pain in the ass. I feel like I lose muscle/strength very easily when I try to cut more.
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Fitness |OT8| Dad Bods, Bulge Swelfies, and Wait...Do you even lift bro?
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Side note: being under 10% is quite a pain in the ass. I feel like I lose muscle/strength very easily when I try to cut more.
Psychotext
Member
It can happen earlier if you go mad, but it's mostly due to hormonal changes (and being less effective at actually working out).
Long and complicated read on it here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fa...ting-to-single-digit-body-fat-levels-qa.html/
Long and complicated read on it here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fa...ting-to-single-digit-body-fat-levels-qa.html/
mdsfx
Member
Update:
I think I'm back to my old self. Lost about 3-4 pounds of "summer fun." Still probably around 9%, but I think I've given up on sustaining much lower. It's seemingly impossible for me.
Will start bulking just for a few weeks at a time after my race on 11/8. Really want to focus on my legs and core/lower back.
I think I'm back to my old self. Lost about 3-4 pounds of "summer fun." Still probably around 9%, but I think I've given up on sustaining much lower. It's seemingly impossible for me.
Will start bulking just for a few weeks at a time after my race on 11/8. Really want to focus on my legs and core/lower back.
Psychotext
Member
Looking great. I've really gotta practice some poses. 
mdsfx
Member
I should take a pic not posing, before a workout, and not flexing. THE DIFFERENCE IS NIGHT AND FREAKIN DAY.Looking great. I've really gotta practice some poses.
I've seen some guys do the PSMF approach and it seems to work. I essentially did it (without knowing) when I was in my pre-gym weight loss phase. Dead animal and generous veggie servings.
As far as as strength goes a few of the guys I lift with manage to hit and keep 1RM during their cut. One of my buds got his 500lb DL back at 215lbs that he had at 260.
Just as you can question the need to restrict weight loss rate, you should question the need to bulk in such a way that even requires substantial weight loss to begin with.
As far as as strength goes a few of the guys I lift with manage to hit and keep 1RM during their cut. One of my buds got his 500lb DL back at 215lbs that he had at 260.
Just as you can question the need to restrict weight loss rate, you should question the need to bulk in such a way that even requires substantial weight loss to begin with.
Psychotext
Member
I think most people are scared that they're not maximising their muscle / strength gain if they don't eat enough. I mean, gaining 1lb might let you put on 0.5lb of muscle... but gaining 2lbs might let you put on 0.7lb!
Well let's put it like that the longer you cut, the lower you go on calories and the leaner you get, the more likely muscle loss gets. You are not gonna lose muscle on a week long cut unless you do something completely retarded.
For lean bulking optimal would be around 300kcal over. Problem is that we are talking only estimates and with 300 there is not a lot of room for error. You might not be eating enough and end up spinning your wheels. Going a bit higher at 400-500 would make sure you have enough to build muscle. But you might gain too much fat which is were the mini cuts come in. Or this is how I see it.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
So FitnessGAF, while I'm pretty happy with the routine I've been using since about June/July, I would like to hear your thoughts. My goals are to run a 5k and lose weight, approximately 29 pounds (209 -> 180).
Day 1: Upper Body
Day 3: Lower Body
Day 5: Full Body
Day 1: Upper Body
- Treadmill: 30-40 minutes*
- Cable Pull Down: 3x10
- Cable Row: 3x10
- Dumbbell Bench Press: 3x10
- Dumbbell Bench Press Incline: 3x10
- Dumbbell Fly: 5x15
- Pullup: 3xfailure
- Leg Raise Knees Bent: 5x20
Day 3: Lower Body
- Treadmill: 30-40 minutes*
- Squat: 3x10
- Lunge: 3x10
- Dumbbell Deadlift: 3x10
- Sectorized Leg Curl: 3x10
- Sectorized Leg Extension: 3x25
- Crunches: 5x20
- Weighted Twist: 3x15 (I'd like to switch this out)
- Plank 5x20secs
Day 5: Full Body
- Treadmill: 30-40 minutes*
- Dumbbell Bicep Curl: 3x15
- Dumbbell Shoulder Press: 3x10
- Dumbbell Raise: 3x15
- Dumbbell Shrug: 4x15
- Barbell Tricep Extension: 3x15
- Dips: 3x10
- Crunches: 5x20
- Cable Row: 3x10
Ditch the trainer and get a new one or use a routine in the OP or ask in here.
1 pound of fat gain is nothing for a 3 week bulk though...that's a slow bulk.
You can also control with time as well as calories. If you want to stay leaner you can do 9 weeks bulk / 3 cut and probably keep up aesthetically/pants size.
Lookin' great Mikey!
DoktorEvil
Banned
What is some decent recommended assistance work for the 5/3/1.
I could use some perspectives here.
I could use some perspectives here.
Given the exercises you have listed, you have access to a full gym, correct? Your plan has a lot going on (too much) but could be maximized to help you achieve your goals.
- First and foremost I'd do one of the programs in the OP. They were created with science by professionals and are targeting at maximizing your efforts.
- You have no "progression" in your workout. From week to week, you should be adding weight to your lifts. If you don't do this, the workouts will have less impact and progress will slow considerably.
- Consider doing your compounds (squat, DL, bench, shoulder press) with barbells, not dumbbells
- Consider doing all of your assistance lifts (curls, tricep extensions, dips, cable rows, etc.) as supersets to maximize your cardiovascular output and give you more time to focus on heavy compounds.
- If you have questions, ask away.
I - and most of the seasoned lifters here - use assistance lifts to target weaknesses (both strength based and aesthetic). It helps to know what you're struggling with, what you want to work on, etc.
Yes a longer time period might be better for gains.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Well with SS, My upper body lifts lagged behind my lower body lifts.
DLs and Squat are easier for me because of my proportions(wide hips). My bench and OHP haven't risen beyond 1RMs of 165 and 135 respectively.
I'm not really sure what I want to "work on" per-say, but I would love to have some vascularity more than none at all(I understand eating cleanly + cardio to achieve a low body fat % is paramount).
Psychotext
Member
I've upped my OHP volume because my numbers are so appalling. If OHP day takes me a little longer, so be it.
Ironically, it's one of the few "lifts" I actually use in mountain biking, as numerous times I've been forced to put my bike over my head to get over a fence or something.
Throw in paused incline DB presses for chest (5 second negative, 5 seconds at bottom, explode to top) and high volume (15-20 reps) cable standing push press for your OHP. Also, if you want to improve your vascularity...in addition to eating well and adding in cardio, superset you assistance lifts / take shorter rests on everything BUT your compounds. Those are two of my favorite assistance lifts (I talk about paused DB press on here at least 1x a week...they're God's gift to busting chest plateaus)
DoktorEvil
Banned
Basically:
Give me an example of a superset program for Bench and OHP. What would it look like?
Irobot82
Member
Do I do the assistance exercises on the same day I do my the main lift it is intended to benefit?
Hello everyone!
I think that I'm in need of help, as of last/this week I've started the Full body program highlighted in the OP and I'm having a lot of trouble squatting even with the empty bar.
I've watched videos, read the whole part on squats on the SS book so I think I have a pretty good idea of how to properly perform them and good form, but in the moment I do it I have a lot of trouble getting down and then specially going up again with the bar over me.
Any tips regarding this? exercises or warm ups I could do to improve my squats? I'm also about 10-20 kgs overweight so that may affect as well (but working on it).
I think that I'm in need of help, as of last/this week I've started the Full body program highlighted in the OP and I'm having a lot of trouble squatting even with the empty bar.
I've watched videos, read the whole part on squats on the SS book so I think I have a pretty good idea of how to properly perform them and good form, but in the moment I do it I have a lot of trouble getting down and then specially going up again with the bar over me.
Any tips regarding this? exercises or warm ups I could do to improve my squats? I'm also about 10-20 kgs overweight so that may affect as well (but working on it).
DoktorEvil
Banned
Film yourself performing your exercises. We can't critique without seeing.
Basically:
Give me an example of a superset program for Bench and OHP. What would it look like?
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oCurHTuxfyY/maxresdefault.jpg This instead (i do it standing...seated is fine). For your shoulders, not your chest. (The second image was great)
Check out my longer post a few pages back regarding the program I'm doing. I superset all of my assistance lifts.
Yes. On OHP day, you would do shoulder assistance lifts.
Some people do antagonistic exercises but most programs have you do it the way you described.
The first few times try doing the squat with a bench underneath you. When your ass hits the bench, explode up....slowly lower yourself back to the bench....explode up. Also, as DoktorEvil suggested, video yourself.
I've got a tough one for you guys. So my wife has been going to the gym with me for the past two months. I had her doing a SS-type routine with an A and B day, basically the same as me, but with different accessories.
She's been an athlete her whole life, and spent a lot of time in the weightroom in high school and college days, so is natural when it comes to a lot of the lifts.
However, the major roadblock is something that we ended up hitting last week. She had spinal fusion surgery about 3.5 years ago, had her T-12 vertebrae shattered, and is now fused with the two above and two below. The hardware that served as the cast is still in, as taking it out is a very invasive procedure that she does not want to go through, at least not now.
So a lot of the barbell lifts stress out this area of her back, but it was all okay until it wasn't. On Squat/OHP/Deadlift day, she tweaked it to the point where all the color drained out of her face. She's not one to show pain, when she broke her back, she even walked into the ER (with help), thinking it was a broken rib or something like that. So, it was pretty serious. She walked it out, and then slowly stretched until whatever nerve/muscle finally released and was much much better, though with some lingering pain.
She was really loving the progress she was making though. So, we slapped together some lifts that would at least emulate a lot of the benefits of the SS type routine. Right now it looks like:
A Day:
Sitting DB Overhead Press 3x5
DB Shrugs 3x5
Bulgarian Lunges 3x10
(Assisted for now) Dips 3x5
Ab Work
Accessories
B Day:
Bench press 3x5
Seated cable row 3x5
Kick backs 3x5 each leg
Lat pull down 3x5
Accessories
So, any ideas on how to refine this, or other lifts to add that avoid a lot of spinal compression or stress on the upper lumbar/lower thorasic? Also, it's great if the leg stuff avoids heavy knee pressure, as her knees aren't in the best of shape after a life of soccer.
We tried adding in leg presses, but those were a lot harder on her knees than even squats were. She's not *too* worried about heavy leg workouts, as that's where she's retained a lot of her strength due to horseback riding and running with me.
*edit*
Also she is feeling great, in terms of avoiding back pain, with this current routine.
She's been an athlete her whole life, and spent a lot of time in the weightroom in high school and college days, so is natural when it comes to a lot of the lifts.
However, the major roadblock is something that we ended up hitting last week. She had spinal fusion surgery about 3.5 years ago, had her T-12 vertebrae shattered, and is now fused with the two above and two below. The hardware that served as the cast is still in, as taking it out is a very invasive procedure that she does not want to go through, at least not now.
So a lot of the barbell lifts stress out this area of her back, but it was all okay until it wasn't. On Squat/OHP/Deadlift day, she tweaked it to the point where all the color drained out of her face. She's not one to show pain, when she broke her back, she even walked into the ER (with help), thinking it was a broken rib or something like that. So, it was pretty serious. She walked it out, and then slowly stretched until whatever nerve/muscle finally released and was much much better, though with some lingering pain.
She was really loving the progress she was making though. So, we slapped together some lifts that would at least emulate a lot of the benefits of the SS type routine. Right now it looks like:
A Day:
Sitting DB Overhead Press 3x5
DB Shrugs 3x5
Bulgarian Lunges 3x10
(Assisted for now) Dips 3x5
Ab Work
Accessories
B Day:
Bench press 3x5
Seated cable row 3x5
Kick backs 3x5 each leg
Lat pull down 3x5
Accessories
So, any ideas on how to refine this, or other lifts to add that avoid a lot of spinal compression or stress on the upper lumbar/lower thorasic? Also, it's great if the leg stuff avoids heavy knee pressure, as her knees aren't in the best of shape after a life of soccer.
We tried adding in leg presses, but those were a lot harder on her knees than even squats were. She's not *too* worried about heavy leg workouts, as that's where she's retained a lot of her strength due to horseback riding and running with me.
*edit*
Also she is feeling great, in terms of avoiding back pain, with this current routine.
I'm sure she can give that a shot.
What's her aesthetic goal?
I think all the benches at the gym are drilled to the ground and I think I should not squat with a barbell out of the squat rack, but there are smaller barbells with predefined weights so I might try using that?
I'll try to find a good spot to put my phone next time and film myself doing it, thanks.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I actually did a seated DB Shoulder Press Monday as a part of my assistance(4sets of 10 reps) plus Hammer Curls and Seated Isolated Tricep DB lifts I should be ok then.
Whats the difference between doing the DB and Cables? Tension?
Also, I can't find your post on your recent program.
Dusk Soldier
Member
So I guess the crux of our disagreement is that you believe that you won't start loosing muscle mass until at least the 3rd week of a cut, and I don't.
Not body builder swole, but still larger muscles than what most fitness-oriented women would be after.
In specific, bubble butt with well defined shoulders, arms, back, and chest.
I didn't say that. I'm saying that if you lose muscle mass on a first week of a moderate cut you are doing something wrong.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
If I lived closer to my gym I would do a program in the OP. Having to drive 30 minutes to the gym 3x a week for 5 exercises doesn't sit well with me. Besides, I like variety. I will continue to consider it.
If you're talking about reps, than no. I do that because it's easier to remember/track than doing something like 3x8,10,8. I do try to increase weights every time I go, but exercises I struggle with (Dumbbell flys for example) have increased little.
Sure. They're only dumbbells because that's how the program was designed by a GAFer.
How would that look in my current routine?
*What's an alternative to a weighted twist? It's actually suppose to be a Russian twist, but I'm not fit enough to keep my legs up and twist.
*What should my rest times be with my current workout?
*Is my Full Body day really full body? It feels almost entirely upper.
*I should be holding for one second on a rep, correct?
Thanks for the help!
Yes, tension. The higher volume with the tension gives your shoulders less time to recover. Give it a shot (higher reps than 10. Go 15-20)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180783086&postcount=8940
Tell her to follow Jen Selter on instagram (probably already does) and do her workouts for her butt...a lot of it is genetics, but that girl has a round ass. As for defined, higher volume, perfect form will be better for her I'd think.
DoktorEvil
Banned
My OHP is tomorrow. I definitely will.
Your program is madness. 2 compounds + 2 assistance exercises?! And a resistance filled cool down? Where do you find the energy?
Bit too lean for her taste, but I'm sure the workouts will be good for that specific goal. She might already be on par with her though, just not as dramatic since she has soccer thighs.
tyvm, we'll give the high volume a shot tomorrow, see how it goes.
Wow that was crazy! congrats
When you ordered your SS yoke bar did you get tracking? They say they shipped it but i haven't gotten a tracking number. It's been awhile since I ordered from them but I think I got a tracking number last time.
I used to do more. My body responds well to it, though. Also, caffeine, 8+ hours of sleep and eating well lol.
If you had arms like his one glance in the mirror would probably be all the motivation/energy you would need.
Thank you bud. Much appreciated.
Any update on the job?
I start my new one in a few weeks...extremely excited.
I'll be calling tomorrow to inform him I'm very much interested and then we'll move forward. Anxious but also excited.
That's great for you. Based on your previous position I bet this new one will be even better!
Excellent!! Congrats dude. You seem pumped.
It's a great position...Money is through the roof and i should be able to spend a lot more time with family! Win-win!
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