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Fitness |OT8| Dad Bods, Bulge Swelfies, and Wait...Do you even lift bro?

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Spinluck

Member
Just started working out again, began with mostly cardio for a weak with very light workout outs to break ice and chink my rust off (haven't worked out in forever). Now moving on to barbell training with Starting Strength to get into the habit of going to the gym, and just increasing my overall strength. I'm eating better and more, since I'm trying to build muscle and just gain some weight. Quick idiot noob question: is the weights listed for the workouts the combined weight or the weight for each side of the barbell? Common sense is telling me combined weight, but I want to make sure I'm not looking at this wrong.

XMRZ1jJ.jpg

I like how much good form and consistency is prioritized in SS. Makes me think of my workouts in a different way.
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
Reposting for new page because I'm desperate for replies:
1. Start with an online calories calculator to find out how much you need to eat for your goals

2. Track your calories with a simple app like MyFitnessPal

3. Adjust your food intake 2-3 weeks in as needed based on you results

What is the perfect gaining diet for a 6'1, 170lb male who is doing SS? Should I even be gaining? I feel like I should be gaining because I'm weak but every time I do it I start to freak out about my belly fat getting worse or something. This is a huge mental struggle for me. What weight do I stop at? I look like this currently (I took this in the morning a few days ago). I am not super comfortable sharing my shirtless self online but I really need the right advice.


My current lifting stats in lbs, using SS rep and set counts:

DL: 140
Squat: 150
OHP: 75
Bench: 130

As far as the diet goes, I'm fine with protein supplements like shakes or bars.
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
Grizz, just do the steps you quoted in your own post.

https://healthyeater.com/flexible-dieting-calculator

Plug in your numbers and eat those numbers every day.

I get that, and doing those things is entirely feasible for me, but my problem is getting over the mental struggle of accepting my weight gain. I feel like I'm too fatty and want to rid myself of fat, but I also want to get stronger, so I keep flip flopping between eating to gain and eating to lose while getting nowhere in my lifts. I'm looking for someone to convince me not to worry about the fat thing and just focus on getting stronger. I've brought it up here before and that's exactly what people told me, but I worry so much about having low fat levels that I struggle to commit to anything.

I sincerely apologize for being a bad listener.
 

mdsfx

Member
I get that, and doing those things is entirely feasible for me, but my problem is getting over the mental struggle of accepting my weight gain. I feel like I'm too fatty and want to rid myself of fat, but I also want to get stronger, so I keep flip flopping between eating to gain and eating to lose while getting nowhere in my lifts. I'm looking for someone to convince me not to worry about the fat thing and just focus on getting stronger. I've brought it up here before and that's exactly what people told me, but I worry so much about having low fat levels that I struggle to commit to anything.

I sincerely apologize for being a bad listener.

You have to choose. I'm always in the same boat. When I'm bulking, I fear gaining fat. When I'm cutting, I fear losing strength. The problem is if you don't choose you might spin your wheels indefinitely. Make the choice - bulk or cut. Commit to it and remember that eventually you'll make the switch.

A. Bulk and accept the added fat, knowing that you will lose it in the future when you cut

or

B. Cut and accept a potential loss in strength, knowing that you will gain strength in the future when you bulk
 
I get that, and doing those things is entirely feasible for me, but my problem is getting over the mental struggle of accepting my weight gain. I feel like I'm too fatty and want to rid myself of fat, but I also want to get stronger, so I keep flip flopping between eating to gain and eating to lose while getting nowhere in my lifts. I'm looking for someone to convince me not to worry about the fat thing and just focus on getting stronger. I've brought it up here before and that's exactly what people told me, but I worry so much about having low fat levels that I struggle to commit to anything.

I sincerely apologize for being a bad listener.
Don't sweat it. We all get a little anxious when bulking. You don't have to go all in right off the bat - give yourself some breathing room. If you are new to lifting your body will react but not for an extended period. Listen to your body when you need to up your intake and don't sweat getting a little bit of extra fat. You can always cut it.

170 is lean. I'd take it up to 200 and then throw on a cut so you can see what the process feels like. Lots of us bulk/cut to make the most of our time. Its nothing to fear. I had reservations and still do but I don't get hung up on it. Keep your eye on your goal every day and with every rep. Visualise it. You have to want it and don't let anything get in your way :D

We are here for you if you need advice. That's why we are all here - for support, advice and good conversation. Everyone needs support no matter what level you train at (even if youre Mr/Mrs Universe) and FitGAF is a great group of peeps.
 
You have to choose. I'm always in the same boat. When I'm bulking, I fear gaining fat. When I'm cutting, I fear losing strength. The problem is if you don't choose you might spin your wheels indefinitely. Make the choice - bulk or cut. Commit to it and remember that eventually you'll make the switch.

A. Bulk and accept the added fat, knowing that you will lose it in the future when you cut

or

B. Cut and accept a potential loss in strength, knowing that you will gain strength in the future when you bulk

What about small bulks and cuts. Cut for about 2-3 weeks and then bulk for something similar and repeat. That seems to be a decent idea too.
 

Teggy

Member
12x 2.5kg, 4 x 1.5kg, bars weigh... I think 1kg.

As you may be able to tell, I am very new at this

You really can't do starting strength with dumbbells. There are similar movements you can do (squats with hands at sides, dumbbell press), but overall the way the program works you would hit the limit of your set in weight almost immediately, especially for squats, and you really can't do dumbbell deadlifts. If that's all you've got, I'd suggest looking up a dumbbell routine. If you want to do one of the beginners routines described in the OP you really need access to a gym.
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
You have to choose. I'm always in the same boat. When I'm bulking, I fear gaining fat. When I'm cutting, I fear losing strength. The problem is if you don't choose you might spin your wheels indefinitely. Make the choice - bulk or cut. Commit to it and remember that eventually you'll make the switch.

A. Bulk and accept the added fat, knowing that you will lose it in the future when you cut

or

B. Cut and accept a potential loss in strength, knowing that you will gain strength in the future when you bulk

Don't sweat it. We all get a little anxious when bulking. You don't have to go all in right off the bat - give yourself some breathing room. If you are new to lifting your body will react but not for an extended period. Listen to your body when you need to up your intake and don't sweat getting a little bit of extra fat. You can always cut it.

170 is lean. I'd take it up to 200 and then throw on a cut so you can see what the process feels like. Lots of us bulk/cut to make the most of our time. Its nothing to fear. I had reservations and still do but I don't get hung up on it. Keep your eye on your goal every day and with every rep. Visualise it. You have to want it and don't let anything get in your way :D

We are here for you if you need advice. That's why we are all here - for support, advice and good conversation. Everyone needs support no matter what level you train at (even if youre Mr/Mrs Universe) and FitGAF is a great group of peeps.

Really appreciate the encouragement.

Last thing I'm worried about: My skin. If I get up to 200 and then cut, am I going to end up with loose skin? It's a huge fear of mine.
 

Wulfric

Member
Grizz, don't worry too much about bulk fat. It took me a while to accept gaining weight, but my fears lessened as I saw my lift totals (pretty close to yours) outpace a couple pounds of weight gain. Heck, I feel like I look better in spite of it. Like Absinthe said, you still have room to grow. Give it a shot, you might like it. And loose skin occurs with huge weight loss. That won't happen with a mere 30 lbs.

Just started working out again, began with mostly cardio for a weak with very light workout outs to break ice and chink my rust off (haven't worked out in forever). Now moving on to barbell training with Starting Strength to get into the habit of going to the gym, and just increasing my overall strength. I'm eating better and more, since I'm trying to build muscle and just gain some weight. Quick idiot noob question: is the weights listed for the workouts the combined weight or the weight for each side of the barbell? Common sense is telling me combined weight, but I want to make sure I'm not looking at this wrong.

Yep, you're lifting the barbell too, so include it in your total weight. The average bar is 45 lbs, so just subtract that and you have the amount of weight which you divide between both sides of the bar.

example:
squat 55 (45 bar, and a 5 lb plate on each side)
bench press 40 (It looks like you're just lifting the bar here?)
deadlift 115 (45 bar, and a 35 lb plate on each side)

If this doesn't sound like the weights you lifted, check the app settings and see if it already accounts for bar weight. But I doubt it does.
 

Jintor

Member
You really can't do starting strength with dumbbells. There are similar movements you can do (squats with hands at sides, dumbbell press), but overall the way the program works you would hit the limit of your set in weight almost immediately, especially for squats, and you really can't do dumbbell deadlifts. If that's all you've got, I'd suggest looking up a dumbbell routine. If you want to do one of the beginners routines described in the OP you really need access to a gym.

Good to know, I'll go get a dumbell routine for the moment.

Literally won't have access to a gym until midway through the year. Such is life.
 

mdsfx

Member
5x5 Squats @ 245lb. Only got 4 on second set. Brutal!

Edit: Fucking Mondays man. 5/4/3/3/3. Guess it's 5x3 @ 250 next time.
 

JoeNut

Member
so i notice that Deadlifts seem to be a 1x5 thing rather than 5x5 like the rest of the 5x5 routine, any reason for this? i've been doing 5x5 Deadlifts...no wonder i felt sick i guess?
 

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
so i notice that Deadlifts seem to be a 1x5 thing rather than 5x5 like the rest of the 5x5 routine, any reason for this? i've been doing 5x5 Deadlifts...no wonder i felt sick i guess?

Deadlifts are pretty hard to recover from if you're going heavy. That kinda volume might make the squats tougher than they should be.
 

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
I think if you bulk smart, you don't really need to worry about putting on a bunch of extra fat. I wouldn't really recommend the eat everything in sight bulk from a totally fucking up your metabolism and hormones standpoint or from a mental standpoint. Find out what your baseline is and add like 2-300 calories and hit those numbers every fucking day. You can gain strength and size and look leaner because of the muscle you're building without getting fat.
 
Skipped two weights days now... bad puppy!

Couldn't do one Friday as I was heading off to a cycling event, and wont be able to do one today because my "gym" is full of house moving crap. Will have to sort it out by Wednesday or I'm going to lose all my gainz!
 

Zabuza

Banned
I think if you bulk smart, you don't really need to worry about putting on a bunch of extra fat. I wouldn't really recommend the eat everything in sight bulk from a totally fucking up your metabolism and hormones standpoint or from a mental standpoint. Find out what your baseline is and add like 2-300 calories and hit those numbers every fucking day. You can gain strength and size and look leaner because of the muscle you're building without getting fat.
What if adding 300, 500, or even 1000 doesn't really do anything to me. Is going from ~2000 a day to 3500 going to mess me up?
 

spoonztt

Member
I need some help GAF, since I'm a complete retard when it comes to anything fitness related.

After about a year of putting it off and after several doctor visits I'm starting the gym.

I'm 32/M, 5ft9 around 190lbs. I have arthritis in both arms and am also borderline diabetic (as far as numbers go anyway.) Most of my fat is in my stomach area and my face. My immediate goal is to lose some weight from my midsection and eventually build some strength as my body is extremely weak right now from years of inactivity.

My doctor has advised that whatever path I take to start slowly and ease myself into it until I become comfortable. How should I approach this? Do I start with cardio only? Basic strength exercises with light weights? Guide me GAF.
 
I would suggest trying out Stronglifts 5x5. It's one of the suggested programs in the OP. If you click the link there it has a wiki you can read through with videos of sample workouts.

It's 3 times a week, but the program is structured in a way where you can easily just go 2x a week if that is easier for you.

You might also want to consider substituting some of the barbell lifts, for machine variants. For instance, you might do a chest press machine instead of barbell bench press.

Check out your gym to see if they have those machines that use pressurized air to generate resistance. Those machines are good for people with arthritis since it makes loading and unloading the weight much easier.

If you'd like to add any cardio or extra exercises to the stronglifts routine, just do it at the end of the workout. Tacking on 10 mins of Cardio can be good for your heart, just try to keep it challenging.
 
I think if you bulk smart, you don't really need to worry about putting on a bunch of extra fat. I wouldn't really recommend the eat everything in sight bulk from a totally fucking up your metabolism and hormones standpoint or from a mental standpoint. Find out what your baseline is and add like 2-300 calories and hit those numbers every fucking day. You can gain strength and size and look leaner because of the muscle you're building without getting fat.
Nobody is recommending an eat everything in sight bulk. We are recommending a diet that he needs to accomplish whatever goal he has in mind.

The bolded is a unicorn people have been chasing for years and never catch, only to be stuck at the starting line forever.

When we say gain fat - we mean just that. We do not mean it as "get obese". In order to put on slabs of muscle, you're going to put on fat in the process. This doesn't mean 50lbs of fat. This doesn't mean "fat" as a descriptor, it means "fat" as in cellular tissue. There's a difference.
 

BumRush

Member
ZurwKzol.jpg

Trying to get back on track after a rough holiday diet. I've also been doing a bodybuilding split for the past month or so and cut back on the CrossFit and cardio a bit. I never really spent much time benching or doing "legs" in any way besides squats and deads and holy hell am I sore just about every day. New found respect for the 4x12 bodybuilding crew. This shit is hard.

Looking awesome dude. 12 rep schemes are the shit. I do 12+ for my supplemental lifts and I won't ever look back.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Down to 205 last night. I'm just gonna keep at this and consider it a cut with one cheat day a week.

OHP last night was rough. 10 @ 85lb, 7 @ 95lb, 5 @ 115lb, 3 @ 125lb, 7 @ 95lb.

Cardio twice a day @ 5 days a week is kinda brutal. Definitely affecting how much energy I have for the lifts, but that's okay. Fat loss is what I'm focused on at the moment.
 

ACE 1991

Member
Have a bit of a weird request; I'm trying to find a good routine (hypertrophy) that has me lifting for 1hr a session or less, but doesn't necessarily sacrifice volume. Would perhaps taking a program like PHUL (a 4-day split) and turning it into a 5 day routine work out ok? I'm not sure how I should go about splitting exercises so I don't overwork myself since I no longer have a rest day in between, but in this program I'd still be resting saturday and sunday.
 

BumRush

Member
Down to 205 last night. I'm just gonna keep at this and consider it a cut with one cheat day a week.

OHP last night was rough. 10 @ 85lb, 7 @ 95lb, 5 @ 115lb, 3 @ 125lb, 7 @ 95lb.

Cardio twice a day @ 5 days a week is kinda brutal. Definitely affecting how much energy I have for the lifts, but that's okay. Fat loss is what I'm focused on at the moment.

Have you considered doing more "intense" lifting (higher rep schemes, drop sets, super sets, etc.) instead of that second cardio session?

Have a bit of a weird request; I'm trying to find a good routine (hypertrophy) that has me lifting for 1hr a session or less, but doesn't necessarily sacrifice volume. Would perhaps taking a program like PHUL (a 4-day split) and turning it into a 5 day routine work out ok? I'm not sure how I should go about splitting exercises so I don't overwork myself since I no longer have a rest day in between, but in this program I'd still be resting saturday and sunday.

What body parts would you be doing each day? 5 straight is a lot, depending on your body part schedule.
 

ACE 1991

Member
Have you considered doing more "intense" lifting (higher rep schemes, drop sets, super sets, etc.) instead of that second cardio session?



What body parts would you be doing each day? 5 straight is a lot, depending on your body part schedule.

I agree, which is why I came here with the question; I'm not sure how I should split it. Is there some kind of routine/program that would effectively split the body parts I'm hitting each day to prevent overtraining?
 

mkenyon

Banned
Have you considered doing more "intense" lifting (higher rep schemes, drop sets, super sets, etc.) instead of that second cardio session?
Yeah, I have. But, part of the cardio is training me for trail runs and hiking when the weather is so shitty there's no way I'd be doing it outside. Possibly a Tough Mudder too.

I do max incline on the treadmill at 3.5-5.5 for pseudo-HIIT, and then the stair climber as well.

The other part is just straight up time management. I just can't afford to spend 2.5 hours at the gym 5 days a week :p
 

BumRush

Member
I agree, which is why I came here with the question; I'm not sure how I should split it. Is there some kind of routine/program that would effectively split the body parts I'm hitting each day to prevent overtraining?

Man, the only thing I could think of would be chest, back, legs, arms, shoulders, but to be honest you'd be creating a custom workout, not using one of the tried and true beginner programs. How long have you been lifting for? I'm sure we could help you out but if you're a novice, it'd be best to do SS, 531, etc.
 
I agree, which is why I came here with the question; I'm not sure how I should split it. Is there some kind of routine/program that would effectively split the body parts I'm hitting each day to prevent overtraining?

Sunday thru Friday:

Legs
Chest/Abs
Back
Shoulders
Bis/Squats/Calves
Tris/Abs

That's my routine and I love it. Get a solid 48hrs between accessory activation.

Edit: You can also keep your second leg day to itself and combine arms into a single day. I prefer 1-group per day until the muscle groups get smaller. Energy management without a thyroid is critical so I have a very short window of operation to complete successful training days and adding multiple muscles per day is no bueno. 45-60 minutes each session, tops.
 

Spinluck

Member
Grizz, don't worry too much about bulk fat. It took me a while to accept gaining weight, but my fears lessened as I saw my lift totals (pretty close to yours) outpace a couple pounds of weight gain. Heck, I feel like I look better in spite of it. Like Absinthe said, you still have room to grow. Give it a shot, you might like it. And loose skin occurs with huge weight loss. That won't happen with a mere 30 lbs.



Yep, you're lifting the barbell too, so include it in your total weight. The average bar is 45 lbs, so just subtract that and you have the amount of weight which you divide between both sides of the bar.

example:
squat 55 (45 bar, and a 5 lb plate on each side)
bench press 40 (It looks like you're just lifting the bar here?)
deadlift 115 (45 bar, and a 35 lb plate on each side)

If this doesn't sound like the weights you lifted, check the app settings and see if it already accounts for bar weight. But I doubt it does.

Thanks, I appreciate the help.
 

BumRush

Member
Yeah, I have. But, part of the cardio is training me for trail runs and hiking when the weather is so shitty there's no way I'd be doing it outside. Possibly a Tough Mudder too.

I do max incline on the treadmill at 3.5-5.5 for pseudo-HIIT, and then the stair climber as well.

The other part is just straight up time management. I just can't afford to spend 2.5 hours at the gym 5 days a week :p

Got it. I don't think you'd need to spend nearly that much time in the gym to achieve what I'm saying but you've made insane progress so just keep doing you!
 

ACE 1991

Member
Man, the only thing I could think of would be chest, back, legs, arms, shoulders, but to be honest you'd be creating a custom workout, not using one of the tried and true beginner programs. How long have you been lifting for? I'm sure we could help you out but if you're a novice, it'd be best to do SS, 531, etc.

Sunday thru Friday:

Legs
Chest
Back
Shoulders
Bis/Squats/Calves
Tris

That's my routine and I love it. Get a solid 48hrs between accessory activation.

Could you give me some specific details about the route (exercises, rep scheme, progression?) How long do you spend in the gym per day on average! Thanks for the reply.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Got it. I don't think you'd need to spend nearly that much time in the gym to achieve what I'm saying but you've made insane progress so just keep doing you!
I spend a *ton* of time on mobility that I consider an absolute must. Cause sex. And I'm 32 and notice when I don't, my body yells at me.

Probably wouldn't need to if I stopped running, but that's not an option cause these two would become absolute monsters.
 

BumRush

Member
Could you give me some specific details about the route (exercises, rep scheme, progression?) How long do you spend in the gym per day on average! Thanks for the reply.

I do 1-2 compounds a day, depending on the body part with a rep scheme of warmup, 8, 5, 3, 1. I also do 4 supplemental exercises, where I superset 2 at a time. My rep schemes are 12-15 generally.

Ex.

Shoulders:
OHP - warmup, 8,5,3,1
DB shrugs superset with BB front raises (3x12, 3x12)
Side raises superset with Arnold press (3x12, 3x12)
 
Could you give me some specific details about the route (exercises, rep scheme, progression?) How long do you spend in the gym per day on average! Thanks for the reply.

45-60 minutes each session.

Each new exercise is 5 sets using a pyramid - up weight every set, drop reps (we really don't drop, we just go until we can't do another but the math usually works out). I complete 3-4 different exercises - so 15-20 sets. Usually leg days require more work.

The very first set is always 10. If i can do 11 with perfect form, i go up in weight. 10 is the barrier i chose with perfect form.

Rep scheme:
10, 8, 6, 4, 4

Some weeks I change it up and go:
10, 8, 6, 6, 6

Others:
10, 8, 6, 4, 2
Depending on how much weight I add to each set.

Rest period:
60-120 seconds, timed, no exceptions. The higher the reps/lower the weight, the shorter the wait.

Legs:
Squats are always my starter, no exceptions. I'm the most ready for these and they require the most work. Add whatever accessories you like. Squats I regularly progress starting at 10 reps for my first set and each week add weight to set 1 until i get down to 5x5, then repeat.

Chest:
Always start with either incline bench or flat bench for 3 weeks straight, then switch the starting compound. Accessory exercises are at your discretion. Flys, cable crossover, db press, decline press, dips, etc. On incline i rotate my starting angle between 15 and 30 degrees, no more, no less.

Back:
I throw in deads here at the start. Always. Then I move to pendlay (over or underhand) and then accessories like t-bar, lat pulldowns, weighted pullups, etc.

Shoulders:
I rotate OHP and Arnold Press, 3 week rotation for exercise 1. Side lateral raises (seated, no exceptions unless I am using a heavier weight for cheaters). Any other accessory.

Biceps:
Rotate between barbell curl and spider curl, 3 week rotation for exercise 1. 5x5 Squats, 2 more accessory bicep exercises. Single leg calf-raises.

Tris:
I rotate between weighted dips, rope pushdowns and negative db skull crushers, every 3. Any other accessory.

For ab days:
Dragon Flags (fucking hard), hanging leg/knee raises, V-pass (dunno what you call it but I pass an inflatable between my legs and arms every rep). dragon walkers, planks, oblique twists, etc. I pick 4 different exercises and roll with them at random. My favorites are flags, hanging raises and v-pass thing i don't know what it's called.
 

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
Nobody is recommending an eat everything in sight bulk. We are recommending a diet that he needs to accomplish whatever goal he has in mind.

The bolded is a unicorn people have been chasing for years and never catch, only to be stuck at the starting line forever.

When we say gain fat - we mean just that. We do not mean it as "get obese". In order to put on slabs of muscle, you're going to put on fat in the process. This doesn't mean 50lbs of fat. This doesn't mean "fat" as a descriptor, it means "fat" as in cellular tissue. There's a difference.

I think a 30# bulk is a little bit excessive for a new lifter, unless you are talking about a year long bulk. Why not take in just enough calories to gain marginal amounts of fat and muscle? That way when you do want to "cut" you aren't stuck with 25+ extra pounds to drop. I'm not super well versed in dieting but I've been working with RP Strength for a few months now and this is their general recommendation for gaining.
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
I think a 30# bulk is a little bit excessive for a new lifter, unless you are talking about a year long bulk. Why not take in just enough calories to gain marginal amounts of fat and muscle? That way when you do want to "cut" you aren't stuck with 25+ extra pounds to drop. I'm not super well versed in dieting but I've been working with RP Strength for a few months now and this is their general recommendation for gaining.

I think the point here is that doing what you suggest would make progress very slow if it happens at all. Bulking and cutting on a cycle of a few months(?) at a time seems much more efficient and effective for reaching goals. And the weight you're left with isn't "extra." If I go to 200, which I plan to do based on the advice in here, if I were to cut and reach 170 again, I'd have less fat on me than I do right now at 170.
 

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
I think the point here is that doing what you suggest would make progress very slow if it happens at all. Bulking and cutting on a cycle of a few months(?) at a time seems much more efficient and effective for reaching goals. And the weight you're left with isn't "extra." If I go to 200, which I plan to do based on the advice in here, if I were to cut and reach 170 again, I'd have less fat on me than I do right now at 170.

Just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt but I think "very slow" is the way to go. It's not good for you to put on that kind of weight "quickly" and I think (and the people that I pay to advise me believe) there's a more healthy and smarter way.
 
I think a 30# bulk is a little bit excessive for a new lifter, unless you are talking about a year long bulk. Why not take in just enough calories to gain marginal amounts of fat and muscle? That way when you do want to "cut" you aren't stuck with 25+ extra pounds to drop. I'm not super well versed in dieting but I've been working with RP Strength for a few months now and this is their general recommendation for gaining.
I'm not sure I need to say it but I will: nobody is suggesting the bulk should happen in a few months. Nobody is saying he needs to gain a zillion pounds of fat. Nobody. I'm sure he will do fine bulking and cutting.

Just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt but I think "very slow" is the way to go. It's not good for you to put on that kind of weight "quickly" and I think (and the people that I pay to advise me believe) there's a more healthy and smarter way.
Oh, I see. Well, then.

If we are to go against decades worth of proven, tested, research and real-world proof - I'd love to hear it.

The floor us yours, bud. What's the secret?

Edit: I don't want to come off like an ass but you're in a thread with a whole bunch of really fit, really healthy people following tried and true methodology and science. I don't think driving by with a "there's a better way" is going to cut it without first cutting down and proving decades worth of research and science is wrong before making your claim against the personal experiences of everyone here.
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
Also, I'm not completely new to this. I started a combination of running and lifting early last year and got stronger while losing weight from a starting point of about 185 lbs. I started at very, very light weights. I've reached that point where my body is telling me I need to eat more to get stronger, and I think that's the right thing to do. I'm going to follow the calories and macros pretty strictly so I don't think there's much to worry about here.
 

theytookourjobz

Junior Member
I'm not sure I need to say it but I will: nobody is suggesting the bulk should happen in a few months. Nobody is saying he needs to gain a zillion pounds of fat. Nobody. I'm sure he will do fine bulking and cutting.


Oh, I see. Well, then.

If we are to go against decades worth of proven, tested, research and real-world proof - I'd love to hear it.

The floor us yours, bud. What's the secret?

Edit: I don't want to come off like an ass but you're in a thread with a whole bunch of really fit, really healthy people following tried and true methodology and science. I don't think driving by with a "there's a better way" is going to cut it without first cutting down and proving decades worth of research and science is wrong before making your claim against the personal experiences of everyone here.

No one is offering him any kind of timeline or specific advice. I'm suggesting eating 250-500 calories a day over maintenance so he gains .5-1lb a week. In my opinion that would keep the body fat he gains at a minimum and as long as he's lifting, he will get stronger and put on muscle. I'm not telling him to eat at a deficit or anything. I think you are misunderstanding my point. Having said that, there ARE two kinds of people that CAN build muscle at a caloric deficit--newbies and steroid users. So if he is in that first camp, maybe the lean gains "myth" might not be a out of the question for him.
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
No one is offering him any kind of timeline or specific advice. I'm suggesting eating 250-500 calories a day over maintenance so he gains .5-1lb a week. In my opinion that would keep the body fat he gains at a minimum and as long as he's lifting, he will get stronger and put on muscle. I'm not telling him to eat at a deficit or anything. I think you are misunderstanding my point. Having said that, there ARE two kinds of people that CAN build muscle at a caloric deficit--newbies and steroid users. So if he is in that first camp, maybe the lean gains "myth" might not be a out of the question for him.

According to everyone's suggestions, about 500 over maintenance is what I'm doing. Nobody debated that. You took specific issue with the amount I would gain in my first long term bulk. Seeing as I've never done this before, why is going from 170 to 200 and issue if it doesn't present any permanent damage to my body?
 
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