Five talking points from the weekend's Destiny beta [EUROGAMER]

BY2K said:
Wait, how is it not an MMO?
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Technically it's not. Though it's much closer to being an mmo, than any other singular genre.

Also, a lot of the people that claim it's nothing like an mmo, are people who don't understand that mmo isn't the same as mmorpg.
 
I fail to see how this has anything to do with point 4, Halo 5 Guardians. That game is releasing an entire year later.
 
BruiserBear said:
If it quacks like a duck......




and quests, and loot, and public events, etc, etc
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BruiserBear said:
It has a lot in common with an MMO. It's clearly been designed with that concept in mind. At the very least it's an MMO Lite.
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An MMO lite is a multiplayer online game, which is hardly new. From what I can tell, Destiny isn't massively multiplayer, which is part of the definition. I think you really have to stretch to call this an MMO. If the argument is that it has some common lexicon with MMOs and may familiarize and acclimate people to those terms, sure, I think that makes sense. But quests and loot and "public events" do not make a game an MMO.

There have been lots of games like Destiny before Destiny. The closest parallel I could draw would be phantasy star online, which absolutely no one would identify as an MMO.

Destiny is really great but if we are going to see a lot of articles about how it will popularize MMOs on consoles then I think that will be inaccurate.
 
Y2Kev said:
An MMO lite is a multiplayer online game, which is hardly new. From what I can tell, Destiny isn't massively multiplayer, which is part of the definition. I think you really have to stretch to call this an MMO. If the argument is that it has some common lexicon with MMOs and may familiarize and acclimate people to those terms, sure, I think that makes sense. But quests and loot and "public events" do not make a game an MMO.

There have been lots of games like Destiny before Destiny. The closest parallel I could draw would be phantasy star online, which absolutely no one would identify as an MMO.

Destiny is really great but if we are going to see a lot of articles about how it will popularize MMOs on consoles then I think that will be inaccurate.
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One thing people tend to forget is that we're basically just seeing the starter area. We don't know if there's going to be world pvp zones and/or big MMO-esque mission hubs somewhere else. Who knows, maybe Bungie has the MMO surprise still waiting, because even they are selling Destiny as MMO.
 
Number one thing Bungie needs to do marketing-wise is clarify this "MMO" business. The City looks almost like an MMO town, but there's no meaningful interaction between the players, no shops and no real party forming that I saw.

There's some bits and pieces of MMO in there, each map is basically an instance where players CAN end up, though it's not all shared world (maybe The City is shared but it seemed like there were too few people even there). But for every NOT MMO design, there's damn good reason. The "no respawn" areas prevent non-fireteam players to keep it a more tightly designed singleplayer/team experience, loot is per-player and mostly prevents squabbles over loot and 100% prevents loot-ninjas.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, there's no voice chat outside of Fireteams, and with no text chat there's very little interaction beyond shooting common foes and inviting players to your fireteam. I actually think that's just fine, though a non-team proxomity voice chat might be nice. Or it might be awful but I assume people playing PvE are a bit more civil than the stereotypical 12 year old calling you a ****** **** in (Online FPS).

I actually think Destiny's multiplayer is great and really well though out for the most part, but it is not an MMO and it really needs some better explanation.
 
addicting as fuck. but they really need to put more emphasis on the story. it feels like such an...afterthought. which is strange considering how much work they've put into the worlds and lore apparently.
 
AmaterasuOni said:
One thing people tend to forget is that we're basically just seeing the starter area. We don't know if there's going to be world pvp zones and/or big MMO-esque mission hubs somewhere else. Who knows, maybe Bungie has the MMO surprise still waiting, because even they are selling Destiny as MMO.
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Strictly speaking they're not selling it as an MMO, ever since the reveal they've been very careful in their wording and have referred to it as an Shared World Shooter.

Ultimately though that just brings us back to the original problem that was being discussed before the alpha: Bungie's messaging for this game has been awful.

Discotheque said:
addicting as fuck. but they really need to put more emphasis on the story. it feels like such an...afterthought. which is strange considering how much work they've put into the worlds and lore apparently.
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Definitely agree with this, it's baffling. It's obviousl alot of thought has went to world building but an actual plot is clearly an afterthought.
 
IAmRandom31 said:
Just ripe with inaccuracies, assumptions, etc.
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'Ripe' is a weird word to use like that. There's a certain imagery there which works in conveying something, but - unless you're really stretching usage - the term would give a positive spin, not the pejorative that your post's context implies.

Maybe you meant to use 'rife'.
 
MMO is not a kind of games like platformer, RPG can be guys...Is Online required? Is it multiplayer? Does it allow a massive amount of players in the same instance? Is there a persistent world? If yes, then Destiny is MMO.
 
AHA-Lambda said:
Strictly speaking they're not selling it as an MMO, ever since the reveal they've been very careful in their wording and have referred to it as an Shared World Shooter.

Ultimately though that just brings us back to the original problem that was being discussed before the alpha: Bungie's messaging for this game has been awful.
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Yeah, I might just remember some articles stating the MMO thing. And agreed, messaging is still awful. Maybe they wanted to show it to people rather than explain it? That's why they chose this massive beta phase. I'd guess the actual marketing starts in next month.
 
The worst thing about Destiny is the lack of emphasis on exploration. Seriously the linearity sucks, even if sometimes it gives you the illusion of being open world it never really is.
 
Dinklage isn't the only one whose voice acting needs work
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I think with the vocorder effect and the bleep-blop noises when he talks, the Dinklage parts are much improved in the beta.
 
I definitely agree that the Tower is boring and barebones.

No proximity chat is kind of ehhhh...maybe give us the option to have it on?

I have no idea what's going on in the generic "Light vs Dark" story...lol

The random events are awesome......seriously.

The controls are fluid and amazing.

The multiplayer is definitely fun but it's missing something.....can't quite put my finger on it(help me out ppl)

Small tweaks here and there would make an already great experience, even better.
 
There's nothing wrong with Dinklage's delivery. If anything is wrong with his voice work it's that whenever we hear it all we can think of is Tyrion Lannister. We've only ourselves to blame.
 
Is it money well spent? It's interesting to compare Destiny with Borderlands, a common reference point given both game's predilection for complimenting gunplay with ever-escalating numbers. If you're going to play the numbers game, Borderlands wins out - no matter how much work Bungie puts in before September, there's no competing with the amount of hardware Gearbox spews out at its players. When it comes to quality, though, it's a different story - there's an incredible amount of personality in Destiny's guns, from the fatal thwomp of a pulse rifle to the piercing crash of the DMR descendant auto rifles. Whether that slick personality can win out over the more homespun charm of Borderlands, though, is likely a matter of taste.
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Borderlands does its weapons rather more well than EG is implying here. So much more variety.

There were like 5 primary weapons in the beta. And the auto-rifle was the most boring weapon I've fired in a long time. I was hoping that a lvl 8 auto-rifle would have something to differentiate it from the lvl 1 auto-rifle, but it was exactly the same (amount of boring). Borderlands is a lot better at this in that sense. So I don't necessarily agree with EG's statement that there's less variety but that the weapons do feel better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though Borderlands has the edge in terms of variety, that doesn't mean its weapons don't also feel better. Because some of them definitely do.
 
Could Destiny be the first MMO to really work on console?

Destiny is not an MMO. Also there are already MMO'S that work on consoles.


2. You can feel every cent of Activision's $500 million investment on the screen

Can you really? So explain, what exactly on the acreen justifies 500 mil?

3. Hunter's OP, the Interceptor's OP - but the balance is in the balance

Ok that makes no sense.


4. 343 has got its work cut out with Halo 5 Guardians

People are still going to buy it, but loads of Halo players will flock to Destiny and wont buy Halo5.

5. Dinklage isn't the only one whose voice acting needs work

Actually I disagree. What other characters have bad VA? Dinklage is still using the same lines, they just cut em up and put a robot filter on it.

Bad list.
 
Pie and Beans said:
Destiny is good, but I certainly can't feel "the $500 million investment on the screen". Especially not with the indie No Man's Sky kind of shitting on Bungie's chips with travelling from planet to planet in game and not just as an endless string of loading screens.
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The load times for the Beta are very long, I was quite surprised by that but obviously I'll take that with a grain of salt because it is in fact, a beta. I'm going to assume that these load times will be cut down in the final version but it won't achieve No Man's Sky's level of loading screens, or lack thereof.
 
Y2Kev said:
An MMO lite is a multiplayer online game, which is hardly new. From what I can tell, Destiny isn't massively multiplayer, which is part of the definition. I think you really have to stretch to call this an MMO. If the argument is that it has some common lexicon with MMOs and may familiarize and acclimate people to those terms, sure, I think that makes sense. But quests and loot and "public events" do not make a game an MMO.

There have been lots of games like Destiny before Destiny. The closest parallel I could draw would be phantasy star online, which absolutely no one would identify as an MMO.

Destiny is really great but if we are going to see a lot of articles about how it will popularize MMOs on consoles then I think that will be inaccurate.
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I just find it hard to put any kind of real classification or genre on Destiny since its so many things.

Sure its a shooter but its also built like a RPG in terms of how its story is presented, but then its also an online game, a PVP game, an online co-op game, and even then it does have a lot of MMO elements such as its gear progression and Strikes much working like dungeons do in MMOs, its just missing the 'Massive' part of MMO.

It just doesn't fit 1 one specific genre maybe it needs a new one? Multiplayer Online RPG Shooter?
 
Toodles said:
'Ripe' is a weird word to use like that. There's a certain imagery there which works in conveying something, but - unless you're really stretching usage - the term would give a positive spin, not the pejorative that your post's context implies.

Maybe you meant to use 'rife'.
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yeah meant rife
 
Destiny is a lot like PSO2 with the chance of bumping into other parties in selective areas of the overworld, forming parties and such, and I like that.
 
I didn't know the "massive(ly)" in MMO stands for XP, loot, and raid-style events. There's nothing massive about a player cap that barely reaches double digits.
 
FreddieQuell said:
What is keeping destiny from being an mmo? I'm not too familiar with them, but it seems like destiny mostly fits the bill.
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The only thing keeping it from being a MMO is that it has no sense of community. Other than dancing and waving there is no way to really interact or communicate with others unless they are in your fireteam.

Other than that, the game has MMO DNA all over it. Its not an MMO, but it damn sure plays like one.
 
Humpernator said:
The load times for the Beta are very long, I was quite surprised by that but obviously I'll take that with a grain of salt because it is in fact, a beta. I'm going to assume that these load times will be cut down in the final version but it won't achieve No Man's Sky's level of loading screens, or lack thereof.
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Its more a fact that the way the entire game is structured, you're gonna get a hell of a lot more loading than most MMO's and other games anyway. "Going to orbit" adds 2 loading screens and watching your ship shit about to get anywhere. In MMO's I've played, you'll have a 'return home' teleport, and you go directly there, not into orbit and then there.

In Destiny though, one of the "loot" aspects, is ships. Unless its revealed they serve more of a purpose later on, they are literally just customisable loading screens. It all adds to a really disjointed game that drags you out of the story each "mission" and getting to any aspect of the game is clunky as all hell.
 
I am really enjoying destiny but these points are pretty awful. Gotta start the hype machine up somewhere though.



lifeexpectancy said:
Wasn't Phantasy Star Online before FFXI?
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not an MMO.

Zakalwe said:
Yeh, but FFVIX nails the mmo on console thing. Especially the UI.
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I know this of off topic but I keep seeing this everywhere and I dont understand it.

My bard has like 6 bars full of things to hit at various times. How the fuck does that work on consoles?

I was using a controller at one point and had to switch to keyboard because I had too many skills to use
 
Discotheque said:
addicting as fuck. but they really need to put more emphasis on the story. it feels like such an...afterthought. which is strange considering how much work they've put into the worlds and lore apparently.
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Yeah the story felt weird. Especially after that one mission and you're just...talking to this dude in a mask telling you the great secrets of the universe. I was dead until like 10 minutes ago and now I'm your last hope, okay.
 
seventynine said:
Eurogamer - "There have been other MMOs to try their hand on console, of course, and recently they're having more success. Final Fantasy 14's new incarnation A Realm Reborn has managed to find a loving home on PlayStation 4, and both Planetside 2 and The Elder Scrolls Online should prove there's nothing holding back huge connected worlds on console, whenever they deign to turn up. Destiny, though, could be the game that gets a broad audience of millions comfortable with the vagaries of MMO design. Not only could it be the most popular console MMO yet, it could well be the one that turns the tide."

Pretty good read.
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Oh, so when they say 'work', they mean 'sells the most copies'? That makes sense...
 
shiftplusone said:
I was using a controller at one point and had to switch to keyboard because I had too many skills to use
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Well, that's what they say.

I tried it briefly out of curiosity, and it worked wonderfully for a character at level 30. Not tried with a fully levelled though. Are there not enough options on the crossbar?
 
Sir TapTap said:
Yeah the story felt weird. Especially after that one mission and you're just...talking to this dude in a mask telling you the great secrets of the universe. I was dead until like 10 minutes ago and now I'm your last hope, okay.
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you must fight the darkness with the power of light.

what a shit story. i hope they just cut a lot of the stuff out from the beta and will be fleshing it out big time in the full game. or maybe it's not a priority considering the type of game this is going for, but that would be disappointing. i think they could do great things with this universe.
 
Point no. 4

I think he meant Borderlands 3

If Destiny can beat it from a shoot-n-loot perspective (which is a stretch to call Destiny now, but it is), then Borderlands dev team will need to have a long look in the mirror. I have faith in the game though.
 
Zakalwe said:
Warframe's depth isn't a positive, imo. It has a huge barrier to entry, with very little explanation of the game's convoluted systems.

This depth also helps hide the fact that the core game is incredibly shallow. There are a handulf of mission types that are slightly tweaked for variosu events every now and then, and there's no real end game. The game is really just a loot treadmil, and combat = spam powers/weapons to win. You can mix it up if you want to, but there's no real need to.

Been with that game since closed beta on PC, Master founder, and DE seem to be more interested in spewing out new items than actually developing the gamre itself.

Anywa, point being, Desitny may not have the "depth" of Warframe, but it certainly trumps it in actual game mechanics and playable content imo.



Don't forget Lance Reddick. That man's voice is like the wrath of thunder and rhthym of music. Gives me chills!
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Completely agree man

I've tried mmultiple times, but just cant get into Warframe at all
 
There's been an odd reticence since Destiny's reveal to pin down what exactly it is, or to even mutter that dreaded term 'console MMO' - as if incanting it will stir the ghosts of APB, Huxley or the disappointing Defiance. But that's exactly what it is, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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How can an allegedly informed games media journalist write this? At best you can say that it has MMO elements, none of which pertain to the main quality of an MMO: being massively multiplayer.
 
Discotheque said:
you must fight the darkness with the power of light.

what a shit story. i hope they just cut a lot of the stuff out from the beta and will be fleshing it out big time in the full game.
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Yup. Destiny just throws you in the middle of everything speaking of vague things like "The Darkness (TM)" in a way that assumes you know (or care) what they're talking about. It feels like watching some scifi TV show and having missed the first episode that sets everything up.
 
shiftplusone said:
I am really enjoying destiny but these points are pretty awful. Gotta start the hype machine up somewhere though.





not an MMO.



I know this of off topic but I keep seeing this everywhere and I dont understand it.

My bard has like 6 bars full of things to hit at various times. How the fuck does that work on consoles?

I was using a controller at one point and had to switch to keyboard because I had too many skills to use
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You have access to 32 skills on a pad without even having to click through to extra hotbars. Hold L, that's 8, hold R, that's another 8. Hold L, then R, that's another 8. Hold R, then L, that's yet another 8. Anymore than that are surely going to be used so rarely that you can just click through to the next hotbar for it.

I'm tanking with a controller and am having no issues with any endgame content that I'm trying as a result of it.

Of course, you could just plug a keyboard and mouse in as well.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
There's nothing wrong with Dinklage's delivery. If anything is wrong with his voice work it's that whenever we hear it all we can think of is Tyrion Lannister. We've only ourselves to blame.
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True, but I also think it's just a blatant case of stunt-casting. Dude brings nothing to the role. Throwing on a heavy voice filter doesnt mask just how disinterested he sounds reciting the zany ass dialog. Dialog Which itself doesn't have any real meaning behind it due to how Bungie is choosing to deliver (or not) the narrative.
 
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