Five talking points from the weekend's Destiny beta [EUROGAMER]

Izayoi said:
That's what I'm wondering.

Destiny is very much an MMO.

Leveling and skill trees, character progression through gear, at least one hub city... Destiny is just as much an MMO as Phantasy Star Online is.
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Except Phantasy Star Online isn't an MMO.

and I get that Leveling, Skill trees, and character progression through gear represent an RPG, but how exactly does it represent the MASSIVE in MMO?

I don't think you realize that RPG and MMO are two seperate entities. Borderlands has Leveling, skill trees AND character progression through gear. Does that make it an MMO?

And in regards to the Public Events, I would like you to Compare Rift's Public Events to Destiny's "public events" and then tell me if they look anything identical. I mean for that matter, Aren't Double XP weekends considered "Public Events" for CoD?

To me, Destiny is an Online FPS with Lite RPG elements, but it is hardly massive. I am curious as to those of you calling it an MMO, have you actually PLAYED any MMOs ?
 
Izayoi said:
Sure it is. Your definition of MMO is an overworld with a bunch of idiots running around doing menial tasks, together, but ultimately, completely separate? Or does the world need to be completely connected?

I think that PSO is absolutely an MMO. Just because there isn't a giant clusterfuck of people on screen doesn't disqualify it from being an MMO, I don't think (and even then, that's what you get when you're in the hub city).
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MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online. There's nothing Massively Multiplayer in Destiny. Skill trees and hub cities doesn't define a game as an MMO. Being Massively Multiplayer that defines it.

Just like PSO isn't Massively Multiplayer.
 
t0rment said:
i wish it were more like a mmo. the classes are too similar imo, and the player count is too low.
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I agree there seem to be too few people on some maps. The moon one in particular seems pretty empty with just 12.

And I hope we get some objective based modes and not just the deathmatch we see in the beta. Or perhaps at least Killzone style objective rotation without map loading or Battlefield style map progresion. That would be even better.
 
I agree that the MMO designation doesn't really apply to Destiny at all. I took Eurogamer's comments as Destiny adapting MMO concepts (like raids) to fit more intuitively in a console space. Destiny, however, is way more Guild Wars than Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars was not an MMO, while Guild Wars 2 is.
 
Destiny has a large scale static world where the player interacts with a decent number of people. There looked to be at least 15 players in one version of the Tower with me and I'm sure if I had gone exploring I would have ran into a number of people exploring. The only purpose of which is just to socialize. It's a game where there is a large emphasis on social interactions with a good amount of instancing thrown in. The non-combat mechanics are straight out of a MMORPG so yea a small scale MMORPG term does fit the game extremely well.
 
The more I think about it... it is more like PSO or Phantasy Star Universe

You walk down the same trench over and over with similar loot goal
 
MMaRsu said:
It's more balanced than you think. Maybe you are just not very good at it?
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Oh yes, the Hunter's supercharge can do sever damage to vehicles even more than the stationary turrets in addition being able to take out peeps at respawn points with one shot from far away. and that's is one thing of a long list of broken mechanics.

And why the hell you think people criticizing the game are playing bad? Please stop assuming that.
 
its an MMO imo, it does the basic things you would expect in one, and the open world will become more apparent once the galaxy opens up and we see all the places to explorer.
 
DSN2K said:
its an MMO imo, it does the basic things you would expect in one, and the open world will become more apparent once the galaxy opens up and we see all the places to explorer.
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And what about the massive in Massively Multiplayer Online? It's not an MMO because it's not massively multiplayer.
 
People saying it's not a mmo must enjoy pissing in the wind. I said it after the alpha too. The game gives off strong mmo vibes, whether you like it or not. When tasked with describing the game to someone, the first words in my mind are fps and mmo. Whether it follows some contrived formula, that only the small percentage of gamers who play MMOs understand, or not is of no consequence. If you want to give people a quick and direct idea of what the game is, just say a fps crossed with a mmo.

Based on the percentage of friends playing the beta, I have to assume this game will do Watch Dogs numbers. It's extremely popular. Content will determine its longevity though. Loot is a big deal in the game. Generating new gear, events and challaneges is going to be important. I'm not playing the beta much out of fear I'll burn out before release. There's not enough content in the beta to last more than a week of intense gaming. PEACE.
 
nOoblet16 said:
And what about the massive in Massively Multiplayer Online? It's not an MMO because it's not massively multiplayer.
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It's an MMO in the same sense as Phantasy Star Online, Guild Wars 1, or Path of Exile, meaning it uses a lot of MMO genre conventions while not fully supporting a large number of players in all areas. Describing those similarities to MMOs could be helpful in informing someone about what to expect from Destiny, and that's what really matters in the end.

People getting worked up about what to label a game is kind of silly. Game genres are almost infinitely capable of blending and overlapping.
 
Online FPS, but it doesn't even have a proper HUB to group up for fire teams
You need more or less make Fire teams on the internets forumz?

The Tower does not function as a HUB, it another shitty place to go "Oh, look. There are 4-8 dudes doing shit"
 
Orayn said:
It's an MMO in the same sense as Phantasy Star Online, Guild Wars 1, or Path of Exile, meaning it uses a lot of MMO genre conventions while not fully supporting a large number of players in all areas. Describing those similarities to MMOs could be helpful in informing someone about what to expect from Destiny, and that's what really matters in the end.

People getting worked up about what to label a game is kind of silly. Game genres are almost infinitely capable of blending and overlapping.
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But PSO isn't an MMO
 
AndyD said:
I wish we had proximity chat in explore mode. So we can just encounter someone else and talk without complications.
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Yeah. I wish there was this too. It would make for quick and easy communication in impromptu fire teams. Playing with friends is fun, but I also like to mix it up with random, without the need to follow someone around all the time. Most of my exploration involves starting a mission, linking up with a random chasing the same objective, maybe sticking together for a bit, if we're compatible, and then splintering off to do my own thing when distracted. All without needing to sustain small talk or continue on boring objectives when I change my mind.

Please bungie, proximity chat if possible. PEACE.
 
Popetita said:
I'm sure it's all because it is the alpah/beta and some content is locked. Another thing I seem to not like, as with many other games of this type, is the loot. From time to type I get good stuff, but it seems limited. At least the part of it that has to do with the tower/citadel stuff. As if there is no a lot of stores and not a lot of choices when getting armor and weapons. They seem to open up as needed and even then don't offer that much uniqueness. I also hope there is some sort of auction or global store/exchange.
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The loot I'm a bit concerned about. It just starts getting interesting at the level cap of the Beta, but purple stuff seems to be the end-all of loot, and I'm reaaaally concerned about the grind that seems necessary to get any. Hoping there's better world drops in the final, as getting 100 vanguard marks or whatever seems like hell, at least it would be in the Beta anyway. And PvP grinding just isn't for me, and there's a cap for that per day anyway.
 
A small scale MMO. Now how contradicting isn't that?

Maybe Destiny will pave the way for a new genre, like MOBA's.
 
Izayoi said:
That's what I'm wondering.

Destiny is very much an MMO.

Leveling and skill trees, character progression through gear, at least one hub city... Destiny is just as much an MMO as Phantasy Star Online is.
Click to expand...

pso1 was never an MMO

Lobbies where you can group up and join a game with 4 people is not an MMO

Diablo isn't an MMO, PSO(1) isn't an MMO
 
nOoblet16 said:
But PSO isn't an MMO
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But it does have some similarities to Destiny, just like the other games I mentioned.

The entire point of my post is that genre labels aren't set in stone or universally agreed upon.

shiftplusone said:
pso1 was never an MMO

Lobbies where you can group up and join a game with 4 people is not an MMO

Diablo isn't an MMO, PSO(1) isn't an MMO
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Maybe these things exist on a continuum instead of being all-or-nothing distinctions.
 
I don't get the complaints with the VA, especially with the robo-filter over Dinklage's voice.

I guess it has airs of taking itself a little too seriously.
 
nOoblet16 said:
But PSO isn't an MMO
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What difference does it make if people refer to it as an mmo?

...


Seriously. Pecking at semantics ignores the larger concept being raised. The thread instead devolves into a pissing match about what an mmo is when really, no one cares. I've heard it referred to as an mmo so often that it obviously fits the genre. Language is organic. No one creates a label to piss off geeks, it's a result of closest natural fit. Maybe make a thread to talk about properly labeling Destiny, but for now, mmo and fps work well enough to convey the point. This is my last comment on what has quickly become a tedious and irrelevant topic. PEACE.
 
Regarding point one, yes I think it could very well be the the first MMO to work (i.e. be really successful) on consoles. The following is probably too much hyperbole, but I think Destiny could be the "new" thing in shooters, i.e. a paradigm shift that everyone tries to copy. I can tell you this, I was burned the hell out on shooters after last gen, but after playing the beta I am hooked on Destiny. Here's the thing, I was completely dismissive of this game. I was in the, oh it's just Borderlands meets Halo camp. Whop-de-doo. But after the playing the beta, I absolutely cannot wait until September. While I guess I can see the argument why it's not an MMO, there is a lot of stuff that makes it really like an MMO in my opinion. And I hate MMOs. I tried my best to get into Star Wars the Old Republic because I'm a huge star wars fan, but I just couldn't get past it being an MMO. To me Destiny very much feels like a theme-park-style MMO, but it's actually really fun. And it has speeder bikes. Hopefully the story is good though otherwise it could get boring. To me, this could be like my Skyrim of shooters. I love it.
 
1. Could Destiny be the first MMO to really work on console?
If by "work" they mean "sell really well", then sure, but nearly every part of the game feels constrained by its target platforms. I wouldn't call this a "working" MMO when you lack any ability to communicate with people outside your party (save for the universal language of dance) or when partying up or changing quest types causes you to leave the game world. It just doesn't feel like a seamless "shared world".

2. You can feel every cent of Activision's $500 million investment on the screen
Not really. The only thing that really has the smell of a bloated budget in Destiny is its TV celebrity cast, but it's not like we haven't seen that in smaller games from much smaller teams.
We'll probably feel all those cents AWAY from the screen, once Activision's marketing machine starts rolling for real.

4. 343 has got its work cut out with Halo 5 Guardians
If anything, Bungie did 343 a favor, because they made it clear that if you want to play a game that feels even a slightest bit like Halo in the next decade, you're going to need an Xbox One.
There was this one time when I was running around Old Russia, aiming down sights at motionless humanoids, when I thought to myself "I'd rather be playing Halo 4", which really isn't something I ever expected to cross my mind.
Destiny only made me miss Halo more than I already did, so much that I'm now willing to consider 343's clumsy imitation to be "good enough". Hooray for lowered expectations!
 
The world of ffxiv is filled to the brim with npcs, quests, and a whole host of things to do. I'd call it a highly successful mmo. Comparing the barren world of Destiny to it at this stage is kind of ridiculous really.
 
500 million $ for a shooter at 30fps with frame pacing issues. Dear god, craftsmanship really seems like an empty term these days when it comes to videogames.
 
Man, the topic of whether or not this is an MMO is almost as annoying as whether Dark Souls is a JRPG, really similar vibes. :p


Game structure is definitely akin to an MMO, but not as many people in it at once, so dunno. If an MMO is "failing" and doesn't have a lot of subs/you only see like 10 people on the server you play on, is it still an MMO since it's also missing the "massively" part?


What is PSO classified as anyway?
 
Why do i never see anyone complaining about load times? The load times are atrocious as far as I can tell from the beta. Hopefully thats just because its a beta...
 
Thrakier said:
500 million $ for a shooter at 30fps with frame pacing issues. Dear god, craftsmanship really seems like an empty term these days when it comes to videogames.
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Frame pacing is known about and getting fixed, maybe even before the beta ends.

Meia said:
Man, the topic of whether or not this is an MMO is almost as annoying as whether Dark Souls is a JRPG, really similar vibes. :p


Game structure is definitely akin to an MMO, but not as many people in it at once, so dunno. If an MMO is "failing" and doesn't have a lot of subs/you only see like 10 people on the server you play on, is it still an MMO since it's also missing the "massively" part?


What is PSO classified as anyway?
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Structurally, I'd put PSO in roughly the same category as the Diablo series and similar action-RPGs with a major co-op component. Where PSO set itself apart is making the lobbies exist in-game instead of through a server browser, which is something you see reflected in later games like Guild Wars as well as the entire "Hunting Action" genre.

Insaniac said:
Why do i never see anyone complaining about load times? The load times are atrocious as far as I can tell from the beta. Hopefully thats just because its a beta...
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Hopefully, yeah. At this point I'd settle for being able to load directly into the Tower, Explore mode, or the next story mission instead of having to return to orbit and choose my destination again.
 
Insaniac said:
Why do i never see anyone complaining about load times? The load times are atrocious as far as I can tell from the beta. Hopefully thats just because its a beta...
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Yeah, this is practically the only complaint I have with the beta. I always get off the couch and do a simple errand while I'm waiting for shit to load. I assume it's as long as it is because the stages are so large. Could be server capacity issues, too.
 
Have a Nice Day said:
Oh yes, the Hunter's supercharge can do sever damage to vehicles even more than the stationary turrets in addition being able to take out peeps at respawn points with one shot from far away. and that's is one thing of a long list of broken mechanics.

And why the hell you think people criticizing the game are playing bad? Please stop assuming that.
Click to expand...

A long list of broken mechanics? I must be on the other end of that spectrum because I think PVP works great. I havent encountered many OP matches or onesided matches because people abuse certain things.
 
Destiny is not an mmo. It's a single/coop rpg that happens to share its world with other players. I'm running around the world by myself and fun across a group in a large fight. I can jump right in and help out. Out doesn't really feel like an mmo top me. Because I like Destiny but don't like mmos
 
The Lamonster said:
If this is a serious question...

-hub zone
-dancing
-shared world
-bank/vault
-vendors
-crafting
-loot

the sum of the parts = MMO
Click to expand...

Hub zone.. yeah 1 small city/instance which you share with around 20 people max.
Dancing.. ummm okay 4 gestures makes this an MMO like?
Shared world.. umm they are instanced parts of the world, every small zone in Old Russia is a different instance. I have never seen more than 5 people in one zone.
You have a vault where you can store your gear, and share them between characters.
Vendors.. yeah there are a few vendors in the Tower, and that's it. No NPC's in the zones themselves etc.
Crafting? Where is that in the game?
Loot.. yes this game has loot, but that doesn't make it an MMO.

I would never call this game an MMO. Because it isn't. It's not a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER.
 
BigDug13 said:
Destiny is as much an MMO as Path of Exile.
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In case people look at this post and think he is agreeing that Destiny is an MMO

From PoE's website:

"Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast."

In otherwords, this poster is being sarcastic (and its a great comparison to be honest)
 
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