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Football Thread 13/14 |OT15| smoking Top of the League cigars may cause Liver failure

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Clegg

Member
Arsenal lacks bottle, just like Moyes lacks nous, just like Pellegrini lacks balls, just like Gerrard lacks trophies.

Every big team lacks something. But Arsenal are more vulnerable to accusation because they have so much tonprove.
 

Yen

Member
This is a pretty big if.


You can't know that, it's just wishful thinking (and I get it), because you haven't even been able to finish 4th in the league. No one know what you could or couldn't have done. You might have gotten knocked out in the group stage, might have won it a la Chelsea.
I'm just proposing that if we were in Europe (as a top seed) we wouldn't be such pushovers. Rodgers has transformed our mentality.
 

FuturusX

Member
Arsenal lacks bottle, just like Moyes lacks nous, just like Pellegrini lacks balls, just like Gerrard lacks trophies.

Every big team lacks something. But Arsenal are more vulnerable to accusation because they have so much tonprove.

Gerrard has every trophy bar the one he deserves. But I get your point.
 

elseanio

Member
Arsenal lacks bottle, just like Moyes lacks nous, just like Pellegrini lacks balls, just like Gerrard lacks trophies.

Every big team lacks something. But Arsenal are more vulnerable to accusation because they have so much tonprove.

Eh? Only ones he is missing is the Prem
 

LTWheels

Member
Summer:

Buy: right-sided CB, FB, Upgrade on Sterling and Coutinho

Sell: Skrtel (keep Kolo for shits & giggles), sell over fringe players

Wait until Jan to consider a DM since we want to play Gerrard there, Lucas has become the 'back-up', or to start in certain games depending on who we face.

Having Coutinho and Sterling as our players coming off the bench to change games would give us a far greater depth. We have no real alternatives for those positions at the moment.

Keep Kolo for another season as by the time we get rid of him, we will have Wisdom and Ilori as dependable back ups.
 

Marc

Member
I'm really not sure why you've seen it like that.

In the past couple of years we've faced some of the best teams on the planet (and arguably in history when it comes to Barcelona). You yourselves were absolutely dominated by them in the finals. We showed "Liverpool DNA" to get through one of the toughest groups around. There is no shame in going out against those sides in the manner that we did.

Just repeating the same "Arsenal are pussies" like a lot of United GAF do.

That is the kind of mentality that works against you though, the 'doing enough' attitude... its like the England National team. It is shameful when you have a 10 year project and can't even match those who built for 5-6 years. Why shouldn't you go out and beat them? They got their reputation in the first place by doing just that, going out and smashing teams. Selling your best players all the time doesn't help, Arsenal fans should demand more. Especially since you are paying the most out of all the teams.

Wisdom would do a great job next season if given the chance. Watched a few Derby games and he's been very impressive.

Couldn't do any worse. :) At least there would be little pressure, your young CB's keep getting played at fullback though.
 
Cornelius hits the post on an overhead kick after 8 minutes.
ig472K2TJGsIx.gif
 

Barzul

Member
Arsenal fan mentality. Trade an actual, real trophy for 'potential trophies'. Competing in the champions league is nice, but I don't think something like consecutive 4th place finishes and not building towards anything is worth the trade

Well I respect your opinion but for me I'd take League Cup and CL. You couldn't attract players of Ozil's caliber by with just the League Cup (unless you pay astronomical amounts), that's the quality of player I want at Arsenal. If I had to pick one, it'd be CL and we are building towards something. We signed new commercial deals, broke our transfer record and are on course to spend big again this summer because of our increased revenue. None of our key players are in danger of leaving (bar Sagna) unless we want them to. A trophy is inevitable.
 

Barzul

Member
Ah, I thought they won the FA Cup in one of the last few years too.

But even then, they've won 3 or 4 trophies since you last one won and their team has been pretty shit for most of that time.

I'm not saying Liverpool have a better team than Arsenal or that they wouldn't make that trade. I don't give a fuck about Liverpool. But they are a club that has an inner strength which can help them excel, which is essential in winning trophies - and Arsenal don't have that.

They won trophies in 06, since then their next win was in 2012. They haven't been that successful.
 

danwarb

Member
Convinced after this performance that shooting for 4th place is all what Liverpool can hope for.

It looked that way against Villa and Fulham too, but the same side destroyed Spuds, Arsenal and Everton in the league.

At least they're winning games like this now.
 

Salvadora

Member
That is the kind of mentality that works against you though, the 'doing enough' attitude... its like the England National team. It is shameful when you have a 10 year project and can't even match those who built for 5-6 years. Why shouldn't you go out and beat them? They got their reputation in the first place by doing just that, going out and smashing teams. Selling your best players all the time doesn't help, Arsenal fans should demand more. Especially since you are paying the most out of all the teams.
You've misunderstood an analysis of the results post-match as a Hodgson-esque mentality.
 

subtles

Member
Summer:

Buy: right-sided CB, FB, Upgrade on Sterling and Coutinho

Sell: Skrtel (keep Kolo for shits & giggles), sell over fringe players

Wait until Jan to consider a DM since we want to play Gerrard there, Lucas has become the 'back-up', or to start in certain games depending on who we face.

Having Coutinho and Sterling as our players coming off the bench to change games would give us a far greater depth. We have no real alternatives for those positions at the moment.

Keep Kolo for another season as by the time we get rid of him, we will have Wisdom and Ilori as dependable back ups.

We honestly need to be proactive regarding the DM situation. We'll be playing more games if we qualify for the CL and losing one of Lucas/Gerrard to injury would be a predicament I wouldn't want to see us in.
 
Well I respect your opinion but for me I'd take League Cup and CL. You couldn't attract players of Ozil's caliber by with just the League Cup (unless you pay astronomical amounts), that's the quality of player I want at Arsenal. If I had to pick one, it'd be CL and we are building towards something. We signed new commercial deals, broke our transfer record and are on course to spend big again this summer because of our increased revenue. None of our key players are in danger of leaving (bar Sagna) unless we want them to. A trophy is inevitable.

No offense but you didn't 'attract' Ozil in the traditional sense. He was desperate to leave having been replaced in 2 positions by 2 players, and had fuck all time to find a club to go to.
 

Clegg

Member
Gerrard has every trophy bar the one he deserves. But I get your point.

Eh? Only ones he is missing is the Prem
A player as good as he should've won so much more in his career. I can understand why he stayed at Liverpool as they'd won the CL just as he was entering the prime of his career. Then there was the team of the late 00's which should've won the league. They were a nearly team in so many ways. Not having a go at him or your team, but I can't help but think he would've won so much more if he'd moved clubs.
 
We also have Coates to come back next season, but he has had his own shaky moments

Bit of a no-hoper tbh. Think Rodgers wanted him out before he got injured. Would be nice if he could find a place in the squad though, right or left-sided, aerially dominant (theoretcially), attacking threat.

Kenny fucked his career with favouritism.



We really need Suarez to start scoring again, even if its just 1 in 3. Sturridge can't do it on his own forever.
 

FuturusX

Member
A player as good as he should've won so much more in his career. I can understand why he stayed at Liverpool as they'd won the CL just as he was entering the prime of his career. Then there was the team of the late 00's which should've won the league. They were a nearly team in so many ways. Not having a go at him or your team, but I can't help but think he would've won so much more if he'd moved clubs.

He would have won a few PL medals. But he loves the club. He stayed because he is Liverpool.

I remember when he signed for Chelsea - I got on plane from London to Seattle, a 10 hour flight.

I got off the flight and heard he had changed his mind. I'll never forget that flight ;)

He's a true legend. A player who genuinely loves his club.
 
He doesn't deserve one, but he's earned one if you know what I mean. Its not because of his ability and standards that he doesn't have one.

I get the point but it's a throwaway comment.

Means nothing.

He's been a great player but he made his choice to stay with Liverpool. Fair enough - doesn't mean he's worthy of one until his team are good enough.
 
I get the point but it's a throwaway comment.

Means nothing.

He's been a great player but he made his choice to stay with Liverpool. Fair enough - doesn't mean he's worthy of one until his team are good enough.

None of this means anything. Shit players have won a lot, great players have won little or nothing

Gerrard will finish his career with one massive gap in his trophy cabinet, and the caveat that he could well end up being the most highly regarded player in our illustrious history
 

Marc

Member
You've misunderstood an analysis of the results post-match as a Hodgson-esque mentality.

Not really, Hodgson is not even good enough to get into the position to contemplate trophies bar the rare oddity.

Arsenal freeze with pressure, when there is no expectation or pressure on a result you tend to play a lot better. Hence I could see you getting a goal or two at the allianz, just because you've been written off anyway. That Carling Cup final against Brum was a perfect summary of what the last ten years have been. Even the FA Cup win was more fluke than planned. So yeah, if you get to cup finals 10 times, you can win it once or twice out of sheer probability. The team reflects the manager too much, never his fault, tried our best, moral winners and all that bollocks.

That's my opinion, we will see if you go another season without a trophy, sure it will be easier next season. Having said that, if City are punished by FFP then the rip off priced tickets will pay off sooner than later you would think as the market settles.
 
None of this means anything. Shit players have won a lot, great players have won little or nothing

Gerrard will finish his career with one massive gap in his trophy cabinet, and the caveat that he could well end up being the most highly regarded player in our illustrious history

You never know, next year could be your year!
 

Yen

Member
These recent teeth threads remind me of the (possibly apocryphal) story a lecturer told us, that in 19th century Northern England, as a present on their 18th birthday people would get all their teeth removed so to avoid inevitable future pain.
I don't floss because I don't recognise any positive effects but I'm going to do it now.
 
These recent teeth threads remind me of the (possibly apocryphal) story a lecturer told us, that in 19th century Northern England, as a present on their 18th birthday people would get all their teeth removed so to avoid inevitable future pain.
I don't floss because I don't recognise any positive effects but I'm going to do it now.

I have the odd nightmare where my teeth just fall out. Apparently its a common thing, and has something to do with fearing the loss of wealth.
 

FuturusX

Member
I get the point but it's a throwaway comment.

Means nothing.

He's been a great player but he made his choice to stay with Liverpool. Fair enough - doesn't mean he's worthy of one until his team are good enough.

Semantics. He deserved better management and a better team around him to win that PL title. Simple as that.

Some players take the easy road. Develop their worth at a club and then move on and claim their boyhood dreams needed to be fulfilled - RVP - ahem.

Gerrard could have done that - he did not. I'd love Liverpool to scrap a PL win for that act alone.
 

Salvadora

Member
Not really, Hodgson is not even good enough to get into the position to contemplate trophies bar the rare oddity.

Arsenal freeze with pressure, when there is no expectation or pressure on a result you tend to play a lot better. Hence I could see you getting a goal or two at the allianz, just because you've been written off anyway. That Carling Cup final against Brum was a perfect summary of what the last ten years have been. Even the FA Cup win was more fluke than planned. So yeah, if you get to cup finals 10 times, you can win it once or twice out of sheer probability. The team reflects the manager too much, never his fault, tried our best, moral winners and all that bollocks.

That's my opinion, we will see if you go another season without a trophy, sure it will be easier next season. Having said that, if City are punished by FFP then the rip off priced tickets will pay off sooner than later you would think as the market settles.
Well, yes, because I was accused of having a "just enough" attitude, which I don't.

I want to win every competition Arsenal competes in. And I've been very vocally critical of the problems the club has faced in the last decade.
 
Semantics. He deserved better management and a better team around him to win that PL title. Simple as that.

Some players take the easy road. Develop their worth at a club and then move on and claim their boyhood dreams needed to be fulfilled - RVP - ahem.

Gerrard could have done that - he did not. I'd love Liverpool to scrap a PL win for that act alone.

I'm sure you would and it would be a nice story, but it doesn't take away at all from other players and decisions they've made.

You call it easy, it's also sensible and in many cases necessary. Gerrard is fortunate that his club is Liverpool. Most players support teams who don't have even the smallest of chances.
 

Wilbur

Banned
On my break. Seems like I missed a good game.

This'll surprise no one, but I fully agree that arsenal are mentally pussies. That loss to Birmingham was no gulf in quality (on their side at least); it was due to a complete failure in their self belief. It's why they've not won anything in nine years; you cannot call that a gulf in quality when Portsmouth, Swansea and Wigan have all won cups in that time frame.
 
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