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Football Thread 2013-14 |OT2| Caravanning all the way to France

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A

arkon

Member
Well that's pretty conclusive evidence that Tiote was the best player in the PL last season. Criminally overlooked for all the major individual awards.
 
R

rodvik

Member
Naughty God said:
7xGWsT2.png


It's not a stats game.
Click to expand...

Joe Bennett god tier confirmed.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Naughty God said:
7xGWsT2.png


It's not a stats game.
Click to expand...

not sure how this actually supports your point. I agree that stats are hardly definitive in football, but the players with the highest dribbles are players like Dembele, Cazorla, Silva—all of whom are considered to be quality players. Good players attempt more, and they succeed more. The only reason Tiote is even on top of the list is because he doesn't attempt dribbles, relatively speaking.

if anything, given Meier's stat is on total dribbles not on dribble success rate, it would be him in the same tier as players like Cazorla and Silva. so your comparison is a bit disingenuous, to say the least. maybe an updated version of the table sorted by total dribbles or chances created, or something along those lines, would be a bit more useful.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
jtb said:
not sure how this actually supports your point. I agree that stats are hardly definitive in football, but the players with the highest dribbles are players like Dembele, Cazorla, Silva—all of whom are considered to be quality players. Good players attempt more, and they succeed more. The only reason Tiote is even on top of the list is because he doesn't attempt dribbles, relatively speaking.

if anything, given Meier's stat is on total dribbles not on dribble success rate, it would be him in the same tier as players like Cazorla and Silva. so your comparison is a bit disingenuous, to say the least.
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Diakite is comfortably the best though.

He's not very good.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Diakite is comfortably the best though.

He's not very good.
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true. though there's a smaller sample size given he played half the minutes. and, going by the table, it's very possible that he is a competent dribbler while being really shitty at creating chances. The stats don't say that he's a good player, they just say he's a good dribbler.

edit: actually his chance creation stat isn't that bad. so I dunno. stats in football are as much about opportunity cost as they are about the stats themselves.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
jtb said:
true. though there's a smaller sample size given he played half the minutes. and, going by the table, it's very possible that he is a competent dribbler while being really shitty at creating chances. The stats don't say that he's a good player, they just say he's a good dribbler.
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Agreed.

Just think it does prove that when you take a stat like that in isolation, it means nothing.

Fernandinho by all accounts is a beast, but the dribble stat doesn't prove it. At least it's not, IMO, a worthy means to base your judgement of a player on.
 
M

Meier

Member
Vivalaraza said:
Fernandinho by all accounts is a beast, but the dribble stat doesn't prove it. At least it's not, IMO, a worthy means to base your judgement of a player on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree that the dribble stat isn't an end all be all by any means -- I just was pointing out that he wasn't just getting the ball and passing it 5 yards like Naughty suggested. He is active at pushing the ball forward and on top of that he averaged 4 accurate long balls per game which is a very respectable number.
 
N

Naughty God

Banned
jtb said:
not sure how this actually supports your point. I agree that stats are hardly definitive in football, but the players with the highest dribbles are players like Dembele, Cazorla, Silva—all of whom are considered to be quality players. Good players attempt more, and they succeed more. The only reason Tiote is even on top of the list is because he doesn't attempt dribbles, relatively speaking.

if anything, given Meier's stat is on total dribbles not on dribble success rate, it would be him in the same tier as players like Cazorla and Silva. so your comparison is a bit disingenuous, to say the least. maybe an updated version of the table sorted by total dribbles or chances created, or something along those lines, would be a bit more useful.
Click to expand...

Diakite, who was born in 1989 had 4.6 dribbles per 90 minutes and achieved a dribble success rate of 66.0% over 922 minutes with a total sum of dribbles of 47 in the 2012-2013 for 20th placed QPR who were founded in 1882, 131 years ago.

It's a load of nonsense. You have to watch the guy play to see if he's any good.
 
FootballFan

FootballFan

Member
pulga said:
Im going to go into some simple mathematics that would make DBZ power levels proud:

Bilbao > United
Atletico > Chelsea
Malaga > all
City cant even make it out of the group stage

and Im not even bringing Madrid and Barca into this

Where is your god now
Click to expand...

Ughh imagine this guy if Madrid won the Cl.

Can't believe wilbs actually wants Madrid to win the Cl. Smh.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Naughty God said:
Diakite, who was born in 1989 had 4.6 dribbles per 90 minutes and achieved a dribble success rate of 66.0% over 922 minutes with a total sum of dribbles of 47 in the 2012-2013 for 20th placed QPR who were founded in 1882, 131 years ago.

It's a load of nonsense. You have to watch the guy play to see if he's any good.
Click to expand...

it's nonsense without context. with context, it's just another tool.
 
M

Meier

Member
arkon said:
Looking forward to seeing him in action more often. I remember being really impressed with him and Willian in that game.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm really excited to see more of him as well. I was consistently impressed by Shakhtar as a whole during the UCL last season and he was their engine. In that game where the video is from, he had 93% pass accuracy (74 total passes), 6 successful dribbles, 6/7 accurate long balls, 1/1 through balls and 5 tackles. He's so good -- an absolute complete, box to box midfielder.
 
N

Naughty God

Banned
jtb said:
it's nonsense without context. with context, it's just another tool.
Click to expand...

What is a successful dribble anyway? Is it beating a man?

From the stats, we can't tell if Fernandinho is simply getting the ball kicking it 10 yards in front of him and using his powerful acceleration (I have no idea if he's fast) to beat his man, which depending on where he plays in midfield, might not be the most defensive opponent.

On the other hand, he could be a Ronaldinho-esque dribbler and he uses his wide array of skills to beat his opponent.

You can't tell from the stats. There are a lot of powerful footballers on the Premier League best dribbler list, and not an awful lot of the footballers you'd normally associate with being the best dribblers.

Looking at the list of the most successful Premier League dribblers, players of West African origin appear to be more represented than they are in the Premier League as a whole. West Africans typically have more fast-twitch muscle fibers, allowing for powerful acceleration, which is why pretty much all the great sprinters can trace their heritage back to Western Africa. It doesn't make Samba Diakiete or Chiek Tiote a great dribbler.

Stats can be a useful supplement to actually watching matches, but you can't tell anything from reading about how many DPGs (dribbles per game) Ferdandinho had.
 
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