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Football Thread 2013-14 |OT2| Caravanning all the way to France
- Thread starter Fry
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And yet Chelsea have Mikel and Torres. City have Barry and Sinclair. Liverpool have Allen and Downing. Arsenal have their entire first team squad.
It's subjective of course, but I'm not a fan of any of the players I mentioned and I don't think any of them (save Torres arguably, but he's living off the last few embers of innate talent left in him) are better footballers than Welbeck. Do they contribute more statistically, i.e. goals and assists? Yeah, and I'm not absolving Welbz of blame. But we could do far worse. He's still young, he's shown great promise. He was amazing against Madrid.
The_Hitcher89
Member
If there's one moment that sums Welbeck up its the game against us at Old Trafford when he burst past our entire midfield and defense, got to the byline and fell over, while the ball rolled out of play
@Wilbz, I'm fairly sure Downing providedmore goals and assists than Welbeck last year
@Wilbz, I'm fairly sure Downing providedmore goals and assists than Welbeck last year
I could actually see him buying Osman :lol
The big part of my argument was SAF tbh
When the best manager ever keeps picking someone, you know they might be quite good at football. Can't really use it for every manager.He's clumsy. He's raw. And if he really was brilliant, he would be at the age he is now. But he's more than capable of doing that to defences.
Yeah that's what I'm saying, Downing had more goals and assists and that is an indictment of Welbeck. But I don't think Downing is a better footballer than him.
Broder Salsa
Banned
The big part of my argument was SAF tbh
He bought Bebe.
Bebe.
It's called having old man moments, will happen to the best of us when senility hits, he probably thought it was still Dwight Yorke running around in there.
Vivalaraza
Member
Just because I'm more of a realist than most of you
It's not about realism.
Welbeck requires patience. He might never be good enough at United...I think he will easily be a good enough squad player, that's my opinion.
But he's had 2 season with us. His first season was very promising, didn't you think so? It wasn't bad anyways, he scored 12 goals which is an okay return and began to blend into the team. His second season was not good, his goalscoring record was really bad. He did however have some good games, especially in some of our more important/tough fixtures.
So I'm willing to be patient with him, because we have players in our squad and in the history of the team over the last 15 years who plenty of people gave up on and said the same things about. He's useless, not good enough, has to go, would the other clubs have him?
And yet we still dominate our division, with those players in the team and in the squad. You might still be right about Welbeck...but IMO to make such a damning verdict after such a short space of time in his career...I think it's foolish.
Torres is only there because Roman has his hard on for him. Mikel, beats me as does Barry. Sinclair never plays so he don't count.
He was good against Madrid apart from that bit where he was through on goal one on one and fucking hit it straight at the keeper. Definition of 'to bottle it'. True he's only 22 still but he's shown nothing in our first team that indicates he'll ever be anything more than someone who can run around and work hard. He's just not got the knack of being a striker, he's just another Heskey.
:lol
His first season yeah I thought he could be but going by last year it looked to be a one season wonder, you just don't play as badly as that if you've got some level of talent in you. It's not nice to be so harsh on him I agree but he clearly isn't going to cut it for us, it's pretty obvious even at this stage.
My United-supporting mates used to say the same about Fletcher when he first came onto the scene. They changed their tune eventually.
Sleeplessnights
Banned
Tbh I don't think Kharma actually "watches" United play.
Shite is right, what was it, like a 3% conversion rate?
He is alright outside the box, can link up ok and whatever else but he's not cut out to be a striker for us.
Vivalaraza
Member
United fans are the worst for it, they say it about almost everyone. A worrying amount wanted Ronaldo gone. De Gea, Rafael, Evans, Carrick, Fletcher...just a few examples, there's loads more.
I understand that football fans have little patience and are generally fickle but I'm always surprised when United fans lack patience when it comes to younger players...because they have seen young players grow time and time again.
Welbeck is not going to be some kind of world class all time great...that's pretty obvious. Maybe that's the problem, that's what the fans expect.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Joey?
i think welbeck's main use is tactical. hopefully he'll develop into more of a goalscorer but i think you saw his utility best against madrid in the first leg, outside of the header. his ability to press is outstanding and the way his speed and runs stretch the opponents defense opens up space for others to exploit and helps pin back the opposing team. he's the new park in that regard, not a great player but a very handy tool in big games.
i really liked that last season we had four strikers and they all offered something different
i really liked that last season we had four strikers and they all offered something different
The_Hitcher89
Member
Time for the big redcafe debate to be moved onto gaf
Welbeck vs Sturridge, go!
@above, he'll be fined more for kicking the ball into the crowd than Sassuolo will
Welbeck vs Sturridge, go!
@above, he'll be fined more for kicking the ball into the crowd than Sassuolo will
Yeah he's good at that stuff, but as a striker he's a joke. He'll probably end up staying with us for the long term but I can't see him being used for anything more than the above.
What I feel is best for Welbeck is a loan away from us and get some regular football actually playing a striker regularly.
With Evans though he had an outstanding first year, a great loan season at Sunderland, plays well for NI but one bad year and all of a sudden he is the worst defender of all time.
Sturridge definitely. Much more composed in front of goal and seems to have actual skill.
This is Welbeck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVhKLOGcfr0
Still got faith in Anderson, yeah?
Real story: Someone yelled "Go fix your nose" and he got all upset. No one, not even the players, heard anything racist.
I do for some reason beyond my comprehension.
Sleeplessnights
Banned
Players develop, just because we're one of the few big clubs that go through with it instead of just buying stars.
It's not that hard of a concept to grasp, I personally didn't write Carrick off but I still got my doubts about Welbeck. I don't think his issue is in his talent though, just seems to miss the old confidence he had.
Que?
It's not that hard of a concept to grasp, I personally didn't write Carrick off but I still got my doubts about Welbeck. I don't think his issue is in his talent though, just seems to miss the old confidence he had.
Que?
Madrid will def. want to cash in on Lopez, especially after that brilliant performance of his last season. Casillas will probably reclaim his spot and by then there'll be plenty of clubs who'd want to offer Lopez a better deal. Kinda hope this doesn't happen and that Ancelotti is fair but who knows. He'd be expensive sure but I think he'd be worth every penny. I'd be happy with Julio Cesar though, cheaper and already has experience in PL so it's a good advantage.
As for the lack of CB's amd DM's...isn't it all more of a reason to get someone that looks to perform well? Like I said it's not going to get any easier when more clubs are start hunting them.
Vivalaraza
Member
He's already done his loans. This is a FM type idea. Why go on loan, what will regular football do for him now?
He plays loads of games for us. Did Welbeck cost us last year? No he didn't, because we have 3 other strikers in the squad who are scoring the goals for us.
The time for Welbeck to go is when we need him and he can not deliver. Until that time comes I'm happy for us to have him and be patient. If Welbeck becomes a success it's going to be invaluable for us, it will mean alot beyond just the results.
The_Hitcher89
Member
lol
You'll be saying the same next summer. And the one after that. Next thing you know, he'll be 35 years old, weigh 280 pounds and you'll still be talking about his potential and the way he deserves an injury-free season to show everyone what he can do.
Regular football would at least let us judge whether he can cut it as a striker rather than playing bit parts on the wing etc. He didn't cost us no (although as I said he did bottle it against Real 1 v 1 but again, not culpable for that result) because we've a good enough team to carry him when he's fucking around up front for us. If he becomes a success great but I just cannot see it happening for the life of me.
:lol na this year will be his last I would imagine, he'll be jettisoned unless he has some sort of footballing renaissance. I always feel it's a pity too that SAF tried to turn him into a CM as well.
if it's a choice between a top striker and a top DM, I say we need a DM first. I'd love Suarez but it's very worrying that this is the top priority and not shoring up the defense (especially the GK situation).
you know, honestly, if we're going after Suarez (which I have no problem with, though I hope we bid 50m and wrap this shit up ASAP), we could do far worse than picking up Joey Barton on the cheap. Dressing room cancer or not, we could do with someone who could tackle and he'd be a half-decent stop-gap solution in the same vein as Cesar.
but really I want Fellaini. He's exactly what we need. A bit of a cunt, lots of premier league experience, in his prime, high resale value if he dicks us around with his contract. I'm a fan.
The_Hitcher89
Member
I honestly think we need Suarez more, we didn't concede that many goals but there were some matches where an extra bit of quality would've seen us win, like against Man Utd at the Emirates. We really did not create enough until we shifted Cazorla to the left and started playing Rosicky at CAM. Suarez creates a LOT of chances.
Vivalaraza
Member
Going on loan isn't about seeing if he's good enough to play for us though. A loan is just for young players to get a regular chance to practice and learn and in the case of the big clubs, for them to get those chances away from the glare of the first team and the big stage. It's also about teaching some discipline I guess, that's why Fergie used to say anyway. Loans from big clubs are about lots of things...but it's very rarely a case of, well go and prove yourself at another team and if you do well then we might consider you.
Playing at United will be totally different, at United he will be moving about playing in different roles, against different tactics, alongside another quality of players. He could go to Hull or something and score 15 goals and it would mean nothing for us as a barometer to judge him on.
We can disagree about how good/bad we think he is, that's just a matter of our opinions. But I don't see the advantage in binning him now, why? We don't gain anything from that. He's not leading the line for us, we're not reliant on him for goals...he's not clogging up the wage bill or taking minutes away from other players who need them. So why not just let him have a year more, 2 years more...and if at 25 yeah he's nowhere near making it and holding others back then let him go. On the other hand there's plenty to be gained if he does well.
It's just pure frustration to say get rid of him now. Makes no sense.
What do you expect? Concacaf is a fucking joke.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Wenger even toyed with the idea more than a few times.
Barton isn't good enough for Arsenal, but you really do need someone who can go in and be a real cunt on that midfield. Right now you got a bunch of boy scouts in there with no balls.
As much as I want to agree I can't, I just can't. Suarez has to he no1 by an infinite margin. Too many 0-0 or 1-0 last season that cost us.
Fellaini presents a whole host of issues. I take it Arteta is dropped? Or is it Wilshere dropped or Cazorla dropped pushing Wilshere forward? Even less space for Ramsey, he will leave. We have 4 players for 3 positions as it is and that's not counting Rosicky. If Fellaini comes in someone needs to go and Arteta is way too important to be dropped.
Agree regarding Cesar but we need to give Liverpool their money right now and be done with it. Rest of the squad later.
I dunno if I agree with that. I thought Giroud actually was pretty decent up front, he reminded me of a more sluggish Adebayor—difference was Adebayor had a ridiculously good midfield creating chances for him. I could live with another season of that lol. But whenever we went up against a competent midfield without Diaby, 9 times out of 10, they shat on us.
See, I think the reason we weren't creating enough was because we really struggle with getting the ball back, especially in midfield. and I don't count the Man Utd game at the Emirates, they were barely trying. the fact that we only drew is inexcusable.
for all the shit Utd's midfield gets (I mean, it is pretty terrible for a top team), they completely overran us when we went to Old Trafford last season. It was embarrassing.
pulga
Banned
You must be a genius!
Of course were shit. Weve always been shit. CONCACAF is the definition of shit.
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